We need to stop saying this

TheTinMenBlog · 2022-02-01T10:06:02+00:00

By other men!

The inevitable retort snorted by heartless trolls whenever I talk about men who are victims to violent crime.

81% of murder victims are men – BY OTHER MEN!

Men are the primary victims of assault – BY OTHER MEN!

900,000 men have been sexually assaulted in US prisons – BY OTHER MEN!

WHO’S DOING IT! MEN. WHO STARTED THE WARS? MEN. WHO MAKES THE LAWS? MEN. WHO’S IN CHARGE? MEN.Men, men, men, men.

It goes on and on and on – these people are quite frankly, obsessed with men.

But I’ll tell you what, if your ‘advocacy’ is more interested in pointing out the sex of the assailant, rather than sympathising and supporting the victim, then maybe it isn’t advocacy at all?

If you care more about shovelling blame at the feet of ‘men’ as a group, rather than understanding that the vast majority of men are no different to you, and are just as fearful and at risk - then maybe you’re the problem?

And if you respond to a man who has been assaulted, by highlighting the genitals of his assailant – then honestly, you’re kinda weird.

We all know that a women’s outfit does not invalidate sexual harassment against her, but seemingly a man’s gender does exactly this for his assault?

Why?

Because it invalidates nothing. It doesn’t make the crime any less devastating, or the person’s pain less important.It doesn’t mean we can ignore them, or drop them a few rungs down the priority ladder.

So is ‘by other men’, just another form of victim blaming?

~

Sources – 81% Murder victims, Assault, three times more likely, 98% of military deaths 900,000 men sexually abused in prison, FGM, Child Abuse, Online Misogyny.

Illustrations by Alice Noir of the Noun Project

PricklyGoober · 2022-02-01T11:36:51+00:00

Honestly, I view anyone who says this as clearly seeing it as “men vs women” by implying that each group is a monolith (or at least when convenient for them).

Someone I was close to started saying this a while ago. Since then, I’ve distanced myself from her, since by that implication I might be (subconsciously) her enemy just for existing.

DistrictAccurate · 2022-02-01T13:39:23+00:00

I wanted to address the now removed comment... anyway:

Sympathy for the male victims of male violence doesn't stop it from happening.

The empathy gap and all of its correlates do impact perpetration. Honestly, going into why focusing on the victims makes more sense thwn focusing on the perpetrators may require its own post some day.

That said, it appears unreasonable to only tackle the differentials in empathy in men as there are de-facto negative outcomes from womens biases as well. No reason to go out of your way to only target men's internalized misandry when via bystander behavior, bystander intervention, punishment preferences, law enforcement, activism and so on both men and women perpetuate the environment that ultimately contributes to the differentials in prevalence and severity of violence by sex. The fact that the one landing the punch may be male is ignorant toward the systemic misandry that shapes the whole experience of violent victimizations for men.

It is also ignorant toward the contexts in which the sex of the perpetrator is brought up. Sometimes, like for sexual violence, it may actually be inaccurate and would thus miss most perpetrators. In other instances it is not coupled with suggestions for a strategy that would only work on one sex (and therefore need to be restricted to it). Additionally, no efforts have been taken to establish such a strategies' relative strengths when compared to one that addresses misandry and may therefore lead to progress in all of the aforementioned areas (laws, bystander intervention, law enforcement, legal and administrative abuse, oppressive "norms"... you name it) simultaneously.

SpamandEGs · 2022-02-01T16:02:24+00:00

Placing men vs women as two different classes lie in the root of many problems we face today, and this kind of thing is exactly what we need. Thank you, TinMen, you are amazing.

BitsAndBobs304 · 2022-02-01T12:39:13+00:00

So well done! Share it everywhere

ripyourlungsdave · 2022-02-01T14:24:40+00:00

Always love seeing your stuff pop up. You manage to get some really good points across without losing any empathy for the people that this shitty, conflict-loving world decided were our enemies. I love it. Keep it coming. I’ll always share.

helloiseeyou2020 · 2022-02-01T20:17:12+00:00

I think we will never make ground on this. It's not a real discussion point said in earnest. People who say this are knowingly acting in bad faith when they do so, because the motive is not to understand or explain the issue but to write of all discussion of it

Riganthor · 2022-02-01T14:04:59+00:00

This, so much this

Complete-Temporary-6 · 2022-02-01T16:56:34+00:00

You are legendary.

BloomingBrains · 2022-02-03T08:41:47+00:00

"This argument is bad because the logic its based on would also hurt women if put into practice."

Just remember guys, we're apparently a misogynist sub though.

Cool-Studio1841 · 2022-02-05T07:43:49+00:00

Literally every feminist i have talked to has said wHo DoES It OtHeR Men

When i list all the problems men face

This is a beautiful comeback to that statement

Stergeary · 2022-02-01T21:24:12+00:00

One step further -- When women harm other women, the patriarchy gets blamed. E.g. Women making fun of another woman for her appearance? That's the patriarchy at work.

crippledhermit · 2022-02-01T21:07:30+00:00

Feminists don't tend to like my response that my assaults have largely been at the hands of women.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2022-02-02T04:22:26+00:00

Bravo! By the way, I want to applaud the excellent examples you've brought up of what this twisted logic being applied to other groups looks like, as they highlight that feminists dismissing men's problems as being caused by other men are not so different from right-wingers dismissing, e.g., black people's problems as being caused by other black people, or how feminists would need to stop treating FGM as a feminist issue according to the same logic they use to argue that men being murdered or killed in combat mostly by other men is not a men's advocacy issue.

Anyway, sorry about that long sentence, but I just want to say again, very well done!

Peptocoptr · 2022-02-05T23:43:07+00:00

What is the time span for the prison rape statistic? That's really important to know.

Title	We need to stop saying this
Author	TheTinMenBlog
Upvotes	346
Comments	36
Date	February 1, 2022 10:05 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/shrhsn/we_need_to_stop_saying_this/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/we-need-to-stop-saying-this.1098538 https://theredarchive.com/post/1098538

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