How I view the cycle of talking about men's issues from the left and why men are flocking to the right wing

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-09-10T20:54:38+00:00

I agree that the left is shortsighted and stupidly think that men will continue to support people who are actively working against their basic interests and I have seen little honest effort on their part to address the issues. They keep demonizing men and I hope it blows up in their face because that is exactly what they deserve.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-09-10T20:34:44+00:00

"And society in the past has been terrible to women."

This is a pretty lame statement. Men have been just as abused throughout the history, pretending like men had it good and were all enjoying beating down on women is far fetched to say the least.

Better yet, we have no fucking idea how humans have lived throughout vast majority of our history. I guess we can guess, but that is all we can do.

zaph239 · 2023-09-10T22:49:43+00:00

The left doesn't have anything to offer men other than abuse and loathing. The irony is, the right, which are suppose to hate the poor. Are more willing to listen to the problems of low status men than the left.

The left truly has lost its way.

TheNerdWonder · 2023-09-11T14:21:01+00:00

As someone on the Left, I tend to think of this whole issue as being a product of the Left sucking at politics (what this always evolves to) because it pays lip service to one particular constituency (women), takes action for them, and outright ignores the rest of us. In contrast, the Right absolutely will acknowledge those with legitimate grievances towards left-wing arrogance with respect to gender issues and men feeling left behind. They may not actually do anything beyond that lip service and are only using it to rack up some political victories that do not benefit men, but for a lot of people, it is still progressive to see/hear people use the term "misandry." '

Big reason I've said that if the Left is concerned about the dangers of the Right/Far Right and how we are losing men to that movement, they need to start getting comfortable calling out misandry by name, listening to men, and addressing issues like high male homelessness rates, declining educational access, etc.

matrixislife · 2023-09-10T20:28:38+00:00

At the very best, the left is offering more of the same right now, as you say all they are doing to counter the flow is to moan at the men they are offering nothing to help.

It reminds me of the pure screwups that let Trump in 2016, expecting people to vote for you as your right, while you offered nothing. That kind of elitism and pure arrogance will lose elections.

hotpotato128 · 2023-09-10T22:27:21+00:00

I think the left has become more authoritarian. I'm a liberal.

CatacombsRave · 2023-09-11T17:40:51+00:00

I think that, a lot of the time, the left are aware of men’s issues; they just won’t talk about them because it would be political suicide or politically incorrect. It’s critical that they do talk about them from a non-feminist perspective, though, and that’ll get more men on the left. Look at how Andrew Tate inspired millions of young men just by telling them, “Your masculinity is a good thing,” “Not everything is your fault,” and other such things.

dawszein14 · 2023-09-11T06:01:31+00:00

"And society in the past has been terrible to women"

Has it?

Exclusively women?

Wouldn't you consider disposability of men through all history to be more terrible?

In what way has it ever been acceptable to treat women as disposable?

TheWorldUnderHell · 2023-09-11T14:56:54+00:00

The toxic parts of the left makes a flawed argument that is very bad (I.e men are becoming fascists because women don't want to fuck them, and that we need to get men on the left.)

This is a sort of "ice creams sales and murder" correlation. It's technically true because there are factors that connect those two things. Much of the things men need to live stable lives are also things women are looking for in a partner, therefore, a man who cannot fulfill his basic material needs is unlikely to have a partner. Lacking a partner also denies the ability to perpetuate your genetic continuity's existence. Quite the existential fear, really.

insane_gravy · 2023-09-10T22:38:17+00:00

Don't confuse the bastardized vision of "social justice" that the mainstream left promotes with communism. Communism is built on an understanding of the common people's material conditions and the inevitable class struggle that must follow.

Nihi1986 · 2023-09-11T03:10:04+00:00

Doesn't really matter if they position themselves in the left or right spectrum, no side is offering them a solution. Eventually they will chose whatever side and physolophy fits better with their ideals and goals, and equality won't be a factor to chose.

The right has a similar speech regarding men's issues or at least a similar conclusion: it's your fault for being yourself, you should be more X and less Y, stop doing A and start doing B. And it probably won't change anything.

Now, if you see that as a problem (young men aligning with the right) then I agree the left basically has chosen feminists (not just women but feminist women) over men. They have tried to gaslight men with the patriarchy and how feminism will solve their problems but it isn't working, of course.

Phantombiceps · 2023-09-11T05:47:33+00:00

You are in the US, well known to not have a left, at least since 40 years ago. The foundational question I would go back and ask is what is a left? What do lefts do? If there was a left in the US, would white supremacy colonialism trans rights and patriarchy really be the top of the list issues in 2023?

We are living through language distortions now, but this also applies to equivocation about political definitions. We hear about the left all the time. In our bizarro dimension, sometimes anything not right wing is “the left”, sometimes the center right ( the DNC) is “ the left “ , sometimes single issue subcultures,or youth subcultures are. But they aren’t.

The left is defined by popular grassroots education and organizing for the 90%. That is a matter of setting up material institutions that interact with millions of people and run by them. It’s not a series of takes on social media, or in campus groups by people who feel they are left, or that this is what the left would say, if there was a left. And it’s not a government committee, corporate funded NGO or progressive private sector business.

There are no left-wing TV networks, social media networks , mass organizations anyone has heard of in the US. There is no well known left wing political party. There are no international groups to coordinate with. There is only 6% union membership and hasn’t been a nationwide general strike since...?

All of this is to ask who are we dealing with and what are we talking about when we look at the left and right. Who ARE these people? If they are the corporate center, or just subculture, it would be good to start from there in asking why they do and say as they do, and what moving right to left or left to right is.

drhagbard_celine · 2023-09-11T13:28:28+00:00

I kind of have a problem with the idea that men will embrace conservatism out of spite. Always seems like an excuse to me.

DrankTooMuchMead · 2023-09-11T18:46:14+00:00

I don't need to tell you what you already know; that you need to get off the internet and talk to real people.

I live in the SF Bay Area, arguably the heart of left wing feminism. Two important points.

The vast majority of feminists are not loud or hating men. The vast majority are actually agreeable and believe in equality, but still believe in the wage gap. They generally don't go looking for fights like the ones on the internet.

The man-hating women are much louder on the internet. I went back to college near Berkeley and only ran into one true man-hater irl.

In person, I've come across several women who were open about things being hard for guys as far as asking out, rejection, etc. I wasn't asking them out and I don't remember how those conversations started. They often mention a brother or something that gave them perspective.

Diary_of_JohannaJane · 2023-09-11T06:38:38+00:00

As a trans woman who no longer has to deal with the bullshit of being a man (but still receives a lot of toxicity from TERFs who are often the same people that shit on men)....

The toxic parts of the left makes a flawed argument that is very bad (I.e men are becoming fascists because women don't want to fuck them, and that we need to get men on the left.)

There is some truth in this especially in certain spaces. For example, look at some of these videos about how women get treated in online video games. This is just three women with several hours of worth of harassment they received from men while playing video games:

"Getting bullied in Valorant because I'm a female" https://youtu.be/dikZ1Y31P18?si=z86DypgngA3PI9nV

"The Female Experience Videos" https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5_1vR6-IA84dWOB01WrUZPdSA62Na5Kr&si=Mw28UiEwlHGXb5Xi

"OMG A GIRL Series" https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEDsO12Ccv9ES1Qlnwu_Gi72udJyhVXyZ&si=fELjBPjPqu-Ajey0

Not every guy behaves like this, but a LOT of guys behave like this, and in some of the videos you can hear guys pressuring other guys to behave like this while nobody shuts down the toxic behavior.

There's also incels that go on rampages murdering women.

the left has alienated men in some way of form, so how do we fix that

I think this is also true. I see a lot of VERY unhelpful rhetoric from people that call themselves leftist or liberal while spewing pure misandry, and I think this is very alienating to a lot of men.

In the same way that men should object to other men who are toxic towards women, I think leftists should object to other leftists who are toxic towards men (or any other group of people).

trickle down social justice

This is such a fantastic word. I'm going to steal this.

they offer essentially either nothing, saying that men need to pick up not just society by their bootstraps, but fight a communist revolution

Yeah.... People who complain about "toxic masculinity" and then use toxic masculinity against men by essentially telling them to "man up." Super hypocritical stuff.

I still think it's in everyone's best interests to oppose capitalism regardless of any of this petty bullshit. Don't oppose capitalism for the sake of the women. Do it for your own sake and the sake of all humanity.

Or in some way say that feminism will solve all men's issues( ie men need feminism as all of the societal problems they face are from patriarchy)

I think this is complicated. WTF is "the patriarchy"? WTF is "feminism"? Different people will give such different definitions of these terms.

I do think there is some truth to the idea that the systems which oppress women are largely the same systems that oppress men, but I think a lot of people that label themselves as "feminists" have really warped perceptions about all this.

For example, I saw a feminist use a pyramid showing different categories of men at different levels of privilege with women at the very bottom of the pyramid, and I thought, "This is completely wrong. The very bottom of the pyramid in our society are probably all the people wasting away in prisons who are mostly men, while the people at the top are mostly men, and there's a sub-group of women who are near the top with those men... it's complicated."

But I digress, smash capitalism. Patriarchal capitalism, girl boss capitalism, smash it all.

the right panders to young mens desire to oppress minorities

Some of this does happen, but it's not the only reason the right wing appeals to young men.

make women second class citizens

The right wing does this as well. The right wing also makes most men second class citizens to a very small group of men at the top. A handful of billionaire men at the top. And an unbelievable number of men at the very bottom.

the left owes nothing to men

This is a shit attitude. I don't give a damn about anybody owing anything to anyone. The systems that dominate our lives today are toxic and need to be destroyed for the sake of every kind of human before humanity destroys itself.

they argue for a week and do nothing for the issues of young men

I think some non-men care about men's issues in a vague sense, but a lot of non-men have no concept for what men's issues really are and no empathy because their own egos and victim complexes get in the way.

young men are fascists who hate women

A lot of young men display fascist behaviors and even regurgitate fascist talking points, but I think that's not necessarily the fault of those young men. Society failed those young men, and I think in a lot of ways, the dipshits that dominate leftist discourse have failed those young men.

young men feel talked down to, if not hated by the left

I find this understandable.

combined with the massive issues they already face, become discontent with the left and feminists, who are hostile to any man or woman who has a opposing view that isn't patriarchy or toxic masculinity

This is a generalization of feminists, but I have met enough dumbass feminists who meet this criteria (and enough others that are ambivalent) that I understand the generalization.

TL;DR:Watch left wing content creators like Vaush and Xanderhal, forget about the infuriating dipshits that eat their own.

How I view the cycle of talking about men's issues from the left and why men are flocking to the right wing

Comments

The wives WERE the 3%!!!

Why would you say something so controversial yet so true!

Title	How I view the cycle of talking about men's issues from the left and why men are flocking to the right wing
Author	Mysterious-Zone-334
Upvotes	100
Comments	100
Date	September 10, 2023 7:55 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/16f9vxv/how_i_view_the_cycle_of_talking_about_mens_issues/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/how-i-view-the-cycle-of-talking-about-mens-issues.1231114 https://theredarchive.com/post/1231114