Why does this sub like MGTOW?

WannabeLeagueBowler · 2024-05-16T18:36:16+00:00

Wiki says Men's Rights is misogyny too.

gabriel-kornilov · 2024-05-16T18:45:00+00:00

MGTOW did not promote "misogyny". It has been labelled in such an unflattering way over and over again because it goes against the modern narrative. The desire to stay single and/or away from women because one doesn't want to enter a plantation which can so quickly turn into a meatgrinder is not "hate", just common sense. Wanna see unadulterated blind hate? Plenty of feminist subs are at your disposition.

Interestingly enough, when women do the very same thing, it is endlessly praised...

SilkySullivan · 2024-05-16T18:36:22+00:00

Unquestionably spreads hate? Troll somewhere else.

doubleo_maestro · 2024-05-16T19:41:50+00:00

So men deciding to focus on themselves is misogynistic? I think that statement stands for itself. Moving on.

Embarrassed-Tune9038 · 2024-05-16T18:41:01+00:00

African-Americans hating the Klan and Neo-Nazis isn't wrong.

Neither is MGTOW.

Ctrl_Alt_Abstergo · 2024-05-16T18:42:09+00:00

On the off chance that you’re not just a concern troll, there’s more than one type of MGTOW just like there’s more than one type of feminist. Some are about cultivation of the self and some are about detracting from the other. It’s a tale as old as time.

AirSailer · 2024-05-16T18:53:05+00:00

Wikipedia is extremely left-leaning on gender and culture war topics. Find a better source.

jamiejagaimo · 2024-05-16T20:00:23+00:00

Imagine getting on your high horse and coming in here preaching and moral grandstanding to us. Save it.

You are ignorant to believe everything you read on the Internet, especially Wikipedia.

Keokuk84 · 2024-05-16T20:28:11+00:00

Your definition comes from wikipedia, which is something that anyone can change or edit.

 Misogyny is a hatred or dislike of women and girls. I have never met a MGTOW guy that actually hates or dislikes women or girls as a whole. They might hate or dislike a specific woman. They might hate or dislike the ideology of feminism or the feminist narrative. They, rightfully, hate the way the family/divorce court system is working against males, etc, etc, etc. Nor have I ever seen any MGTOW content that tells anyone to hate the female gender as a whole.

If people would actually make effort to listen, learn, and to try to understand we could avoid a lot of confusion, assumptions, misinterpretations and misunderstandings.

Punder_man · 2024-05-16T21:14:13+00:00

Well, its on Wikipedia so it must be 100% factually true right?
And the fact that they lump MGTOW in with Men's Rights and Incels is also enough to prove that all three of those are filled with misogyny right?

Men's rights activists are supposed to promote equality. We shouldn't be influenced by an online group whose purpose is meant to promote anti-feminism.

And how pray tell, can we successfully promote equality or even men's issues.. if at every point we are stonewalled and blocked by the grand gatekeeper to equality that is known as "Feminism and Feminists"
Because they 100% DO gatekeep the resources for "Equality" ensuring that equality is only focused on women's issues..

OP you seem convinced that feminism is a movement for equality.. but in reality its a movement for female supremacy..

Being anti-feminist does NOT make you a "Misogynist"
On that note, the term "Misogyny" has been overused to the point that its meaning has changed..

Misogyny is the hatred or prejudice towards women.. but now its used in contexts of "If a man disagrees with what a woman says / does, that's misogyny"
If a women FEELS upset by something a man has said or done.. That's misogyny...

If a man is in the same room as a woman and has done nothing to her nor said anything to her but she feels uncomfortable due to his presence.. that's misogyny..

Men's rights activists are supposed to promote equality. We shouldn't be influenced by an online group whose purpose is meant to promote anti-feminism.

When Roe Vs Wade was overturned there were MANY MRA's protesting / fighting for it to not be overturned.. and there were many of us agreeing with women / feminists that it should not be overturned..

When a bill was put forward that would require women to also sign up to be drafted there was massive push back by feminists "Don't draft our daughters!" and claims by them that "No one should be drafted"
But as soon as the bill was defeated their "Support" of men not being drafted too vanished...

So tell me OP, which group is for "Equality" here?

Grand-Juggernaut6937 · 2024-05-16T18:57:44+00:00

The part you highlighted is exactly why many men want to detach themselves from a society that has been corrupted by feminism.

It isn’t misogynistic, we’ve just collectively decided we aren’t going to be oppressed anymore. If we can’t change society to respect us, we’ll just leave

ShoddyRisk1278 · 2024-05-16T22:19:12+00:00

Men focusing on themselves: Misogynistic Women focusing on themselves: Empowerment

Flagg1991 · 2024-05-16T19:28:04+00:00

I am MGTOW because the majority of people (men and women both) are fake, the bulk of relationships are self-serving and transactional, and tbh, dealing with women today is a headache. A lot of women just cannot understand how they come across or where they're acting out of pocket. A woman will literally live behind the water heater in her mom's basement and walk everywhere, but insult and reject a guy because he has an apartment instead of a house and drives a ten year old car. That takes some fucking audacity, and too many women are totally blind to their own entitlment and hypocrisy. Why would I want that kind of person/attitude in my life?

DepartureFriendly303 · 2024-05-17T08:05:01+00:00

I could ask the same thing about WGTOW since misandrists like them. Had to go to urban dictionary to get this definition though

"WGTOW = Women/Woman going their own way. WGTOW is a demonstration of a woman's individual sovereignty and autonomy. It is the concept of the moral right of self-ownership of a woman, along with her natural right to bodily integrity, and to have sole control and direction of her life goals and decisions. It is a way of stating that, as a woman I will not surrender my will to the social expectations of others or society; I can express my own natural individuality and femininity with integrity, without needing the approval of others."

I noticed there's no mention of hate or misandry in this definition. WGTOW doesn't go against the rad fem narrative and is seen as empowerment unlike MGTOW that gets labelled as misogyny and hate. Your double standards never cease to amaze me.

soontobesolo · 2024-05-16T19:04:16+00:00

Why do you consider wikipedia an authority on anything? They are dead wrong here.

MGTOW is also fine. All it says is that men should live for themselves, rather than sacrificing themselves for a woman. Why on earth would that be controversial?

Most of feminism doesn't want equality, you know. They want favoritism.

WeeklyGreen8522 · 2024-05-16T18:54:18+00:00

If you ask the average self-proclaimed feminist she'll tell you men's rights activists are misogynistic. Anything that suggests that women can have accountability or that men can be victims can and will be labeled misogynistic. MGTOW means "men going their own way", which means going against what you have been taught your role in society as a man is. Don't marry, don't be a provider, don't have children. You can do that by hating women, by ignoring women, or by having symbiotic relationships with women. Hating women is not a requirement for describing yourself as MGTOW. By that rule we could say with much greater certainty that Feminism is misandrist.

Mycroft033 · 2024-05-16T20:14:37+00:00

Wikipedia says MGTOW is misogynistic so therefore it must be true!

Since when did Wikipedia become a remotely reliable source for anything lol

schtean · 2024-05-16T20:59:52+00:00

Which men's movement primarily concerned with men's issues do you think isn't misogyny?

TrilIias · 2024-05-16T21:51:51+00:00

Men's rights activists are supposed to promote equality. We shouldn't be influenced by an online group whose purpose is meant to promote anti-feminism.

But MRAs are anti-feminist. We're quite explicit about that, it's no secret. I've met many anti-feminists who weren't MRAs, but I don't think I've ever seen an MRA who wasn't anti-feminist.

I don't tend to take accusations of misogyny very seriously, especially from somewhere as unserious as Wikipedia.

LopsidedDatabase8912 · 2024-05-16T22:28:20+00:00

Bro, Wikipedia?

unknownmat · 2024-05-16T23:38:59+00:00

As an outsider myself (I'm a common lurker but very rare poster in such forums) maybe I can offer a perspective.

The idea of MGTOW is not inherently misogynistic. Indeed, it is wonderful that men would try to define who they are and who they want to be just as men, without reference to their roles as husbands, fathers, bread-winners or protectors. I believe it should be strongly encouraged, and I'm a bit surprised by how negatively feminists reacted to it.

That said, I can think of two things that hurt how MGTOW was perceived:

There's a tendancy to demonize any pro-male space on the internet, and I think this is clearly seen in the Wikipedia article. I would take that article with a huge grain of salt.
A lot of the posts in the MGTOW sub-Reddit were, indeed, pretty misogynistic. And there was also a smattering of racism thrown in for good measure (for example taking pot shots at black women, in particular). So it's hard for me to defend the Reddit MGTOW community as it was instantiated. That said, many of the worst posts were by men who were in the middle of divorce or of painful break-ups. I think such posts were a form of catharsis and healing ("anger" being one of the stages of grief). Obviously they were not carefully worded and would occasionally make sweepingly negative statements about women. But, I actually don't think it's such a bad thing for men to have a space on the internet to express their frustrations - however unjustified or inaccurate.

wilsonreeves · 2024-05-17T00:06:11+00:00

Perfect story of my ideal MGTOW, buddy mine live in a cul-de-sac neighborhood in an ocean side NJ town. He says every neighbor he has on his road is divorced, lost everything, except their house but had to buy a second for the Ex. Then one day he was out walking and ran into one of his neighbor's he had not spoken to for a long while. He stopped to talk and asked neighbor about his new car and truck, 4 wheeler, boat on the side yard. Garage full of tools and exercise equipment. Everything a Man wants. My buddy asked his neighbor how he could have all the cool stuff. The neighbors reply. ( I have never been married). True story.

Angryasfk · 2024-05-17T01:49:53+00:00

One: MGTOW is not the same as “misogyny”. Some of those in MGTOW are “misogynists”, certainly have issues with women anyway which is frequently called “misogyny”. But you don’t have to have any particular animosity towards women to be MGTOW. It’s a recognition that the odds are stacked against men in relationships and divorces, and a desire to promote a contented life without the pressures, stresses and life destroying risks that are now part of a relationship with women.

Two: Reddit used to have dedicated MGTOW subs where men of that mindset could discuss their issues, and those interested in what they were really about could go and observe - and question. But Reddit decided they were “hate groups” and shut them down, even as their feminist equivalents continue. So in the absence of any specific MGTOW sub, this is the only place where these guys can come.

MGTOW is drawn from men’s rights issues to a large degree, high divorce rates and unequal outcomes are a large part of the reason why someone chooses MGTOW. So there are issues these guys are interested in here thats not specifically MGTOW anyway. But naturally they “like MTGOW”, and will say so if asked.

MannerNo7000 · 2024-05-16T20:09:50+00:00

Men’s rights are treated like a Leper

Ricoshete · 2024-05-17T01:16:49+00:00

Own Pov / vent. (feel free to skip)

Idk. Im not rooting for the house to catch on fire. Im rooting for each to be able to live alone if they feel like it's not working out or to act as a broker. Like, hobbies, exercise. I get that women 'do a lot for boys', like work a 60 hr shift to 'neglect her 7 am to 7 pm by providing her lifestyle so she can do Tyrone the 6' gas station clerk'

Oh my bad, i forgot the female sacrifice. Male's Monday is watching your co worker's best friend or most hated friend literally fed into a meat grinder as their legs are ground apart into a machinery. Constantly give validations only to never hear one in return, or at worst spite/laugh, so they withdraw.

Female problems sometimes are doing their hair for 20 minutes and then scream at the man who got back from a 7 am to 7 pm, that she wasted 12 hrs for them to be tired.

Life's cracked up problems

And she's been watching everyone else around her get prettier cars and prettier houses on the television that blasts her with ads during her 24 hour work day. And that the man is the cause of "all her problems" and Tyrone has a bigger dick, Susan has a bigger car, James has a bigger house, and Steve is willing to fuck her more.

Then some Jessica might say that she'd fuck a bear or Tyrone over him over the words of the internet. Maybe they're a wallflower irl and just like small dog vs big dog barking syndrome. But it still gets to the man. Who wants to feel like they do all the work, but none of the fun, none of the play, for something that doesn't feel remotely rewarding anymore?

Bad Apple Compassion fatigue

So when the man hears "All X are RAPIST, mysogynist pigs", the man might leave, or intentionally try to figure out how to sabotage/fail/flop a relationship. And then by bizarre 'Yes means no, no means no, no also means yes, except when it's no' logic. The man figures that what the woman says is probably true, because men say their thoughts. Why should women be any different?

So the man say leaves a Jessica to go thrive in life on their own. And Jessica says she'll thrive. Maybe Jessica had or has a degree, but hasn't used it in years. Maybe Jessica got rusty or didn't take it too seriously. Told her whole life that men would swoop in to save her, Jessica has no income or investments, or might be completely fine already.

# Equality should be equal, right?

Well it turns out Jessica might not like actually being with Susan. Maybe the egg isn't all that it's cracked up to be and now Jessica is being asked about her job history, employment history'.

Maybe the things they did in the past relationships repeat, and when both are on their periods, the hits that were sidestepped before leads to Woman + woman catfights/retaliation, nail on nail, hair pulling and makeup smearing and shoe throwing and gossip smearing and rumor throwing.

Double standards (F/F 4x Spousal abuse)

Where the double standards are applied, Women abuse, whether woman on woman violence or Woman on Male violence. Might be taken as "seriously" by "white knights" as women's basketball. With laughing police and a smile as windows are broken and each other stalked if they start hitting each other.

Although women are seen as kind and gentle, there's some bizarrely unexplained 4x higher domestic violence rates for Lesbian couples if period+period shit hits the fan.

Just chilling with Steve and Brad

Maybe the man goes to chill with Brad, go do beers. Maybe after a while, They realize they're happy together and not everything they were meant to be cracked up to be either. But they have fun, no worries or commitments. Maybe Brad can't make children. That's not important right now. Maybe Brad's and Steve's politics are completely opposite, they can't Talk trump vs joe biden, but they know they both like relaxing, fishing, hunting, smores, bbq, camping, growing up kicking balls in the mud, scouting together, hiking. Maybe they're tired of the relationships that 'were supposed to work' being awful.

Maybe they want to 'go back' again. Except now as adults, they can own stuff like jetskis, motorbikes, atvs, rentals, hunting rifles, fire, hunting licenses, jerky kits, commando saws, mesquite smokers, grills. And without the wifes to scream over choices they get one.

fart_huffer- · 2024-05-16T19:13:05+00:00

Well if wiki says it’s true then it must be true. After all, it’s a legitimate scholarly source. I’m sure that some man hater didn’t write that article

phoenician_anarchist · 2024-05-16T19:44:28+00:00

Wikipedia is not a reliable source... smh

RedPill_Hispanic · 2024-05-17T14:28:25+00:00

MGTOW, redpill, incels and MRA are mostly the same in the sense that we all have diagnosed the same problems. Only difference is the solution among them are different...but to the outside world we are all anti women just simply because we point out these issues.

Also MGTOW sub got canceled, so some of those people have nowhere to go.

WhereProgressIsMade · 2024-05-16T20:44:27+00:00

Let's start with the messaging given to girls and young women:

You should be able to choose if you want to pursue college and possibly post-graduate degrees. You should be able to choose if you want to pursue a high powered career or just do something easier to get by. You should be able to choose whether you want to be a parent or be childless. You should be able to choose if you want to pursue being a relationship or stay single. You should be able to choose if you want to stay fit or just let yourself go. No one should shame you for those choices.

Most of MGTOW is just wanting that same freedom for boys and men -- to shake off the expectations placed on men and be able to choose for yourself what you want to do with this life and what kid of man you want to be.

At least that's the core message I got from it and why I hung out with that group for a stretch. I mostly left due a small but vocal minority that insisted you didn't belong if you were in a LTR with a woman and since I am married, didn't count. Anyway, their mindset really helped me get into a more balanced mindset of weighing her needs, my needs, and my kids' needs and finding a healthy balance instead of sacrificing all of my needs, wants, hopes, and dreams.

Almost all of the supposed "misogyny" wasn't hatred of women. It was just guys needing a place to vent and blow of some steam and there simply not being very many places men can do that anymore. Quite a few guys went through an initial stage of that when they showed up, but it helped them release that pent up emotion and then they could move on and be constructive again. There were hardly any that went on and on for years constantly ranting. Women are given lots of places to do a little venting. Anyone saying women should have that but not men is simply sexist.

Bland-fantasie · 2024-05-17T01:03:08+00:00

Well if it’s on 100% politically-compromised, leftist Wikipedia, I guess it’s true.

Njaulv · 2024-05-17T12:50:35+00:00

There is a reason wikipedia is not considered a reliable source and you get marks off if you use it in school, and laughed at if you cite it in actual journalism or scientific papers.

Pristine_Fig_5374 · 2024-05-17T15:02:11+00:00

Just because the "political correct" people label something as bad, it doesn't mean it's bad actually. We see this pattern all over the world: Trump? Bad. Republicans? Bad. Don't like immigrants? Nazi. Don't like to hold a door open for a woman? Incel.

Extension-Humor4281 · 2024-05-17T15:51:03+00:00

Wikipedia is an open source encyclopedia that ANYONE can edit. Not much of a surprise that a bunch of butthurt feminists go on there and add misogyny to the list of attributes.

procion1302 · 2024-05-17T16:25:13+00:00

Link to Wiki? Lol.

Rich-Incident-7040 · 2024-05-16T20:32:19+00:00

My brother in Christ how bad is your reading comprehension?

This-Top7398 · 2024-05-16T19:36:34+00:00

Because of Two words: child support.

evo1d0er · 2024-05-16T21:18:04+00:00

Feminism= fascism. Are you saying we shouldn’t antifascist?

ACLU_EvilPatriarchy · 2024-05-16T21:27:05+00:00

MGTOW?

I'm all for Men spending their money on themselves.

https://www.mgtow.tv/v/Ognm1l

eli_ashe · 2024-05-16T23:06:29+00:00

i find the notion of MGTOW as objectionable as i do the feministas who say they need no men in their lives, or that men are just dangerous rapist pig faced slobs.

i can understand the reactionary stance, in other words, but it does seem silly and reactionary. It also seems like it embodies many of the same misanthropic views that it is responding to, with but a gender twist from misandry to misogyny; irrational fears, much like how the women choose the bear and express a bunch of irrational fears bout men to justify their silly and misandristic choice.

PlatypusPristine9194 · 2024-05-19T04:52:16+00:00

Why is MGTOW misogyny?

Competitive-Shoe-340 · 2024-05-19T19:58:41+00:00

You did not do your research

ACLU_EvilPatriarchy · 2024-05-20T22:46:02+00:00

MGTOW... I just don't get it

https://youtube.com/shorts/93HeBySVM2Q?si=yQlByrqT1__JsT_F

ACLU_EvilPatriarchy · 2024-05-16T21:24:11+00:00

Misogyny was a term coined by one of a million wannabe scholars back in the craze of naming everything Greek and Latin names a century ago.

Then misandryst National Organization of Women LGBT bra burners in the 1960s coined the term misogyny as a synonym or euphemism for Trad Values.

Nothing to see here else.

Misogyny equals Trad Values.

wilsonreeves · 2024-05-16T20:28:54+00:00

What are the men that go their own way and just don't give a shit and choose not to hating all the time like on this Reddit.

BravoPUA · 2024-05-17T16:09:18+00:00

Lots of guys in here are angry little bitches.

Just as bad, or worse, than feminists.

Because they can’t get a girl, they anger increases, then they think they are reclaiming control of their situation by saying.

I don’t need a woman anyways!

It’s like Jordan P says. You can’t be a good man, if you aren’t capable of violence.

So weak men wearing their weakness as a badge to try and feel good = when that is their only option.

Both pathetic. And not what a Real Man would do.

Proof_Option1386 · 2024-05-16T19:57:12+00:00

This sub, much like /Feminism and /Feminisms is, in my view, largely emotional in nature. People come here to vent. They come because they are angry, and they come because they feel aggrieved.

I am against misogyny. I think many others who frequent this sub are against misogyny. I think the vast majority of people on this sub are primarily concerned with misandry. I think many people on this sub, in my opinion mistakenly, think misandry is as impactful in our society as misogyny. I think that's a pretty narcissistic way of looking at the world. Just because a problem is most important *to you* doesn't mean it is, in the objective sense, most important.

But here's the thing: narcissism of this kind is rife across reddit and across society. It's certainly is rife across /Feminism and /Feminisms. Aggrievement shouldn't be a pissing contest, but it is.

Where I particularly sympathize with the /MensRights forum is that in popular culture and in popular sentiment, men's issues are dismissed and derided. I think that many of the people on the /MensRights forum are too reactive to this and should suck it up a little bit. I also think that, for the vast majority of American history, *women's rights* and *women's issues* were dismissed and derided. And while I don't think this in any way shape or form justifies how dismissive and condescending and, quite frankly, obnoxious, women are with regard to men's issues, I do think it's pretty important for men to keep that perspective in mind as we try to modulate and contextualize our own responses.

And for what it's worth, the mods on this sub, at least in my limited experience, are far more neutral and far less eager to stamp out dialectics than they are on the various feminism subs.

Why does this sub like MGTOW?

Comments

Own Pov / vent. (feel free to skip)

Life's cracked up problems

Bad Apple Compassion fatigue

Double standards (F/F 4x Spousal abuse)

Just chilling with Steve and Brad

Return to status quo

That's what MGTOW / WGTOW means to me..

Tl;dr

Title	Why does this sub like MGTOW?
Author	HeatScissors003
Upvotes	0
Comments	89
Date	May 16, 2024 6:24 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ctjttu/why_does_this_sub_like_mgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-does-this-sub-like-mgtow.1518676 https://theredarchive.com/post/1518676