I went into a feminist sub and asked about a pay gap. Here are the dumbest and funniest responses I got

Patriotic_Guppy · 2024-08-17T23:09:37+00:00

If an employer could hire women and pay them less than men, why would they ever hire men? It seems like finding a way to cut one of your biggest expenses (payroll) would be in every business owner’s best interest.

Ihearvoicesinmyhead5 · 2024-08-17T22:55:08+00:00

“it’s giving you brain rot” whilst giving brain rot responses

Khasimir · 2024-08-17T22:50:12+00:00

"Giving birth is up there but women don't get paid for it". Ok... So you want to be paid for having a child? And that example is supposed to expose the pay gap exists? Are you fucking kidding me? Lmao

Extreme_Spread9636 · 2024-08-17T23:15:19+00:00

So they want to hold society hostage. Give us what we want or we won't have babies? May I suggest to just separate? It serves no purpose to work together with them and have them as part of our society. I said it. Our society. They want men to do the dirty work for free, while they pick the high paid jobs. I'm sorry, we're doing this without them. Kick them out. Exactly as I said it.

Trick_Definition_760 · 2024-08-17T23:18:55+00:00

Second screenshot (“women’s work is dangerous too”) is the only comment that made a remotely coherent argument… not even saying I agree with it but jeez at least they made an actual point instead of tossing ad hominems

LiveIndividual · 2024-08-17T23:39:47+00:00

Nail technician is a dangerous job? What in the actual flying fuck?

kellykebab · 2024-08-17T23:38:32+00:00

Yeah I mean if you believe something that is demonstrably untrue and easy to research, your belief will be supported by ad hominem, stereotype, equivocation (being a nail tech is "dangerous" in the way that working an oil rig is dangerous), and little to no familiarity with actual stats.

This shouldn't be surprising.

People who believe incorrect things don't believe them based on good reasoning, pretty much by definition.

thesonoftheleviathan · 2024-08-17T23:52:20+00:00

there really are people who think the wage gap means women get payed less for the same job. i’m dumbfounded.

Eleutherlothario · 2024-08-17T23:27:25+00:00

There should be a metric that measures how quickly a personal attack is levied in response to a comment. TTI - Time to Insult perhaps.
I'd say that a TTI of 1 is a virtual guarantee that feathers were ruffled, likely by making an uncomfortable point. That, or it's coming from a culture that is pure fucking poison.
In this case, it's both. Feminists - do better.

heartfeltstrength · 2024-08-18T01:32:08+00:00

Ten is funny. My economics professor would never have tolerated any of this pay gap bullshit.

I agreed with the first two paragraphs of #12, but s/he went off the rails in the latter two paragraphs. What do you mean, women's work is devalued? In exchange for the woman's efforts, she gets a whole man. In some traditional societies, men have little to no say how their paychecks are spent. Back when people would take home paper paychecks, some wives demanded their husbands hand over their paper paycheck for the wives to deposit and spend as they (the wives) saw fit. Women possess the... social status, credibility, respect, moral authority, and outright relational bargaining power that make it trivial for her to push her husband around like this. I'm sorry, but commanding another human being's entire paycheck is not disadvantage. It is privilege. This is one of many feminist claims that just make me sick to stomach, it's so dishonest, and so oblivious to and dismissive of the male point of view.

HonestlyKindaOverIt · 2024-08-17T23:46:21+00:00

I flip between feeling irritated, exhausted, amused, and all of the previous honestly. These arguments have been deconstructed SO. MANY. TIMES. Why are some people still buying into them?!

The attitudes which most of those replies seem to have as well. It’s okay to be wrong, but to be so spectacularly wrong and to be aggressive and snarky at the same time. We’re not dealing with smart individuals here.

LettuceBeGrateful · 2024-08-18T00:04:49+00:00

Just a heads up, most of the usernames are still visible.

But yeah, the "wife beater" comment is par for the course in subs like that. I've been told I'm "pro-rape" (whatever the hell that means) more than once. Yayyyy, resentment-fueled tribal discourse. So productive.

Scrace89 · 2024-08-17T23:56:15+00:00

You need to learn to stop arguing with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

EOD_Bad_Karma · 2024-08-18T01:04:39+00:00

Do, one of them referenced Claudia Goldin, who is an economist that won the Nobel prize for diving into the whole wage gap issue.

A female economist won the Nobel prize for effectively disproving that a wage gap exists.

That said, it’s been disproven time and time again.

What tends to happen, is they will group job sets together, such as “women in the medical field” vs “men in the medical field” and then they will compare yearly salaries from both sides then go “see? The men make more!”

But what they love to do, is not include factors such as:

1 - who works more hours.

2 - Who takes more time off

3 - who tends to work more part time vs full time

At the end of the day, if they actually looked at income per hour, they find that the whole wage gap goes away entirely, but that doesn’t fit their narrative. So they tend to exclude that. 2 -

Fearless_Ad4244 · 2024-08-17T23:07:45+00:00

The wage gap exists, but it's like 1-5% max. I don't think if one wanted to discriminate against women would have only that small percentage of difference. Men are known to be more aggresive in negotiation so it could explain that difference. Also we have to take into account child birth which feminists call it a job, because to them even raising their own children is a job.

https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/inclusion-diversity/study-global-gender-pay-gap-narrowed-still-exists

https://web.archive.org/web/20170224051057/https://www.aauw.org/aauw_check/pdf_download/show_pdf.php?file=The-Simple-Truth

https://money.cnn.com/2015/04/13/news/economy/equal-pay-day-2015/index.html

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/1696800/more-evidence-the-gender-wage-gap-is-due-to-choice-not-discrimination/

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/01/gender-pay-gap-facts/

The last link I sent was from CNN, but surprisingly ( or should I say unsurprisingly) they didn't provide sources for some of their claims.

I got the first 3 articles on wikipedia.

The thing is has there ever been a case of a nobel laurete in economics who won it due to a sociological study?

I wonder if this push to have more women in higher paying jobs ( in stem since they wouldn't work in a sewer lol) will negatively impact men's chances to work in stem and to have a high paying career? I think it will, but I hope not. That's why men need to educate themselves more and try to still be dominant in stem fields otherwise the future of innovation seems bleak.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/gender-pay-gap-statistics/#:\~:text=On%20Gusto%27s%20Website-,General%20Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20Statistics,%2C%20non%2DHispanic%20men%20make.

Tallguystrongman · 2024-08-18T00:04:25+00:00

There can def be some nuances that will affect the “pay gap” and that can be discussed when people are mature, unlike what we see there. The “wage gap” is VERY easily debunked. It’s illegal to pay less of a wage in most modern western countries for the same work. Simple. That rosckybosky person is totally wrong for dangerous job wage gap. Completely wrong. At least in trades, mining, logging, maintenance, O&G I have yet to see any hourly wage be different because of sex. In fact I’ve seen a whole crew set down their tools because the company wasn’t giving a fresh journeyman her journeyman rate.

jimmyraybob · 2024-08-18T00:34:57+00:00

I really don't like posts like this. I'm not saying you should remove it and I don't expect you to. The responses you got are definitely frustrating to read but you explicitly went in to their "safe space" and asked questions you knew would be inflammatory and are intentionally sharing the "worst" results. Sharing those results like this isn't actually supportive of men's right, and ultimately gives individual's who're likely to hold the same views as the answerers in the screenshots more fuel for their own posts to diminish us. Also this is just generally kinda negative overall. We all deal with enough negativity in our daily lives no need to spread it here...

SirPorthos · 2024-08-17T23:26:35+00:00

Why poke the harpy? Its just bad energy.

Taskicore · 2024-08-17T23:51:56+00:00

How is being a nail tech dangerous? Is she doing nails for fucking serial killers?

Snoo82945 · 2024-08-18T00:08:13+00:00

I love the "man/wealthy" here.

They can't even choose who's the enemy here. Feminists see a highly successful and wealthy man and apply this to any man, and 99% of men will never amount to even 1% of aforementioned

Successful_Video_970 · 2024-08-18T00:26:59+00:00

I can’t argue this point with woman anymore. It’s pointless. Argue with a wall instead. They have the media and politicians on their side as it’s popular to think this way at the moment. There is no Gender gap. There is only two genders. Don’t argue with them as that means you’re listening to them.

YumLuc · 2024-08-18T00:37:14+00:00

Male Nurse here.

Nursing is relatively hard work.

I wouldn't call it terribly dangerous.

Beautiful-Secret7791 · 2024-08-18T00:44:53+00:00

Not surprising, they live in an extreme feminist echo chamber and the mods have an anti male agenda. What’s so sad is that many women go to the sub looking for real advice and become indoctrinated.

RealStarkey · 2024-08-18T00:54:23+00:00

It’s been illegal in the US to pay an employee less because the of their gender since the 1960s.

Show me the businesses that’s been fined or employers thrown in jail.

fIyguy · 2024-08-18T01:06:02+00:00

okay so gender roles are bad, but nursing is a female role

going by their logic, men's work is extremely dangerous; military service, policing, construction work to name a few

MannerNo7000 · 2024-08-18T01:12:32+00:00

I don’t get why so many guys in here go to these crazy subs and fight.

Our best strength is pulling out and avoiding!

weatherinfo · 2024-08-17T22:42:05+00:00

The removed comment was not me. If you’re that person and you’re reading this, sorry.

MegaLAG · 2024-08-17T23:35:45+00:00

As an anti-natalist, I'd like to say to the lady in the 4th slide that she's very welcome to not do her very dangerous job of giving birth. I for one would thank her if she didn't bring a new life into this hell. Then she would not have this reason to whine about this dangerous "job" that most people don't ask her to do, but she decides to still do it.

RacinRandy83x · 2024-08-17T23:53:16+00:00

What was your comment exactly?

Deckardisdead · 2024-08-18T00:20:13+00:00

If the pay gap means anything it's that American women want to build bridges for equal $. Cool. Go right ahead. I haven't met a woman that can roll wheel barrels of concrete up hill for 10 hours. But cool. Welcome aboard ladies.

SteveCastGames · 2024-08-18T01:38:32+00:00

I only made it to the second screenshot before I had to stop for my own sanity. “lots of women’s work is dangerous” my fucking ass. These broads are wholly delusional. Wow.

VanillaCandid3466 · 2024-08-18T02:48:17+00:00

I've given up even reading that sub, unfortunately. Too many people in there are too easily triggered and just end up venting rather than debating. Interestingly, Amy Wax recently did an interview where she even made a similar point about how that is currently damaging academia ...

The gender pay gap among full-time employees stands at 8.9%, little changed from 2018, and a decline of only 0.6 percentage points since 2012.
The gender pay gap among all employees fell from 17.8% in 2018 to 17.3% in 2019, and continues to decline.
For age groups under 40 years, the gender pay gap for full-time employees is now close to zero.
Among 40- to 49-year-olds the gap (currently 11.4%) has decreased substantially over time.
Among 50- to 59- year-olds and those over 60 years, the gender pay gap is over 15% and is not declining strongly over time.
One of the reasons for differences in the gender pay gap between age groups is that women over 40 years are more likely to work in lower-paid occupations and, compared with younger women, are less likely to work as managers, directors or senior officials.

The gender pay gap is calculated as the difference between average hourly earnings (excluding overtime) of men and women as a proportion of average hourly earnings (excluding overtime) of men’s earnings. It is a measure across all jobs in the UK, not of the difference in pay between men and women for doing the same job.

(source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/genderpaygapintheuk/2019 )

It has actually been illegal in the UK to pay men and women differently for the same job for decades. But that isn't the whole story ...

In my profession (software engineer), even two men doing the "same" job will often be paid differently. It's all down to how good a negotiator you are, skill and experience. But it's still "the same job" ...

Businesses and business owners will ALWAYS try to keep the largest cost centres under control. What is generally the largest cost centre in a business? Staff costs.

In the UK, it's always been frowned upon to discuss each other's salary. I once found out a colleague was earning significantly more than me despite us doing the same work on the same projects in the same department. I negotiated a raise.

The issue with the responses in the other thread is that they are ignoring a lot of factors, just hear "pay gap" and then rant with little H/T to the nuances in real life. Interestingly, another point Amy Wax made ...

Amy Wax Interview - https://youtu.be/FhMGU-rExbE?si=1I5yiGP9mKnP3o_V

throwawayincelacc · 2024-08-18T03:04:44+00:00

"You might want to expand your feed" and refers to Cladia Goldin."

In line with this, her later work finds measurable differences in experience and labor market behavior that result in pay gaps between men and women. In Dynamics of the Gender Gap for Young Professionals in the Financial and Corporate Sectors, Goldin and coauthors compare elite masters of business administration graduates and find that male and female MBAs earn almost identical following graduation.

Right, systemic gender discrimination

These fucking clowns don't even read what they tell others to read either. They're the equivalent of Alex Jones. They drop names and tell you to go read something but it doesn't ever support their message.

However, motherhood precipitates career interruptions, reductions in hours, and increasing preferences for flexibility that help explain the widening gender gap for female MBAs compared to male MBAs.

So... choices? Not to mention men get far less time off for child birth than women in just about every country in the world. And when it comes time to consider child rearing men are considered unfit by a large part of society and are by default denied child custody in many countries.

"Patriarchy is designed to keep women codependent of men"

Has there been any evidence of this in the last 50 years in any developed country? Genuinely asking.

AutumnWak · 2024-08-18T03:30:36+00:00

a lot of women's work is dangerous

Hmm, I guess that's why women have such high death rates at work. Oh wait...

Proof_Option1386 · 2024-08-17T22:55:04+00:00

There's definitely a lot of looney toons bullshit on both the feminisms subs and the Men's Right Sub. I find there are some important differences though. I think there's more diversity of thought on this sub, which certainly has potential for more interesting exchanges and less dogmatism. Of course there's dogmatism here too, but it's less dominant. I think what drives that on the feminism subs are the mods, who are quite narrow in their thinking and hostile to anything that doesn't fit a particularly narrow band of thought.

It's a shame, because I think both subs hit a lot of the same sorts of issues and the feminism sub would benefit from some arguments/discussions with MRA types, just like the MRA sub benefits from pushback.

tributarybattles · 2024-08-18T00:14:55+00:00

Why are we being misogynistic? Is a very good question to ask, let them back themselves into a corner then spring the trap.

DontHugMeImBanned · 2024-08-18T02:34:17+00:00

Willing, professional, lifelong victims.

ShaqMA2 · 2024-08-18T02:44:39+00:00

This is long so I will comments in parts

I had a long chat with "chatgpt" as it gives back information basically the internet would be stating at least for reasons for the gender pay gap. I basically asked it mainly about Claudia Goldin paper. Long and short, we can't prove discrimination but a lot of these papers suggest discrimation after certain factors are explained. There are limitation which to the studies as all and it gives some reason other than discrimination to the gap that is observed. Many of which individuals have posted. I listed them below

Negotiation Practices and Propensities
Non-Cognitive Skills and Preferences - ie choose specific careers and jobs you get less pay, have social skill such as assertiveness etc.
Gender Differences in Networking and Social Capital - ie access to mentors and social relationship
Employer Discrimination Based on Anticipated Family Responsibilities - wanting children and taking up these responsibilities.
Occupational Sorting by Subspecialties - eg male and female doctor; one is a surgeon the other is a pediatrician.
Geographic Mobility and Willingness to Relocate - different places give have a different pay scale.
Workplace Cultures and Practices - not summarizing this one.

Factor: The culture of a workplace, including implicit biases, harassment, and lack of supportive policies, can impact women's career progression and wage growth. Workplaces that are not inclusive or supportive of women might lead to higher turnover rates among women or discourage them from pursuing leadership roles.

Why It Matters: A non-inclusive or hostile work environment can hinder women's career growth, leading to lower wages compared to their male counterparts.

Part-Time Work and Gig Economy Participation - its states due to family
Health and Disability Factors - cause men and women may have different health issues.
Role of Informal and Unpaid Labor - ie emotional labor, caregiving and household work.

weatherinfo · 2024-08-18T02:45:12+00:00

Banned lol. Who snitched

Royal_IDunno · 2024-08-18T02:58:36+00:00

If anyone wants to copy an example from my comment to use against a feminist then go ahead…

9 Reasons men earn more than women:

Men work longer hours
Men are more likely to ask for raises
Men take less time off
Men are more competitive
Men are more likely to take risks
Men prioritise earnings more than women
Men retire at an later age
Men work more dangerous jobs
Men work higher paying jobs

Sources: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5nmX3R0qHUg&pp=ygUXOSByZWFzb25zIG1lbiBlYXJuIG1vcmU%3D

otacon444 · 2024-08-18T03:09:27+00:00

Soldiers and cops are on the same fucking pay schedule. What a stupid fucking comment.

StarZax · 2024-08-18T03:15:09+00:00

Why would you even lose your time there lol

Also the « dangerous jobs are boys clubs, and women won't even get there because of the misogyny »

Yeah, sure lmao. They live in such a different world. Now it's ultra masculine/sexist to understand that dangerous jobs are those where you are most likely to get sick, if not worse. « But there's a lot of women who work hard jobs » no one says otherwise tbh ...

They just will not acknowledge what men are doing for society. Nothing will make them change their mind about that, so why bother. They hate men, there's no way you would try to make reason of someone who jokes about themselves being a « feminazgul, sister of the ever-sharpening blade ».

It's always pretty funny how the most extreme will always roleplay as sisters of something, the blade imagery is also ultra-common, you know what they wish to do with those, but they will never have the guts nor the strength (physical and mental) to accomplish their deepest wishes.

They just love to imagine themselves as cooler than they really are. That's pretty pathetic.

Rhbgrb · 2024-08-18T03:21:25+00:00

Haha someone said being a nail tech is dangerous.

TheShyDreamer · 2024-08-18T03:41:43+00:00

Theyre like mad bulls. Directionless leave it

iainmf · 2024-08-18T03:58:01+00:00

I removed your post because:

Could encourage brigading feminist subs
User names not blanked out

QnsConcrete · 2024-08-18T10:35:59+00:00

The military wage gap is a lie.

Impossible_Cook6 · 2024-08-18T00:31:27+00:00

The gender pay gap isn't that women get paid less. Women MAKE less. There's a difference. On average women work jobs that pay less and men work jobs that pay more. I think the "gender pay gap" is around 77¢ of the dollar for what men make. If women got paid 25% less then every company would only hire women and save 25%. But you don't see that happening do you?

The gender pay gap isn't that women get paid less the men they just work lower paying jobs than men. Guess what? The men that work those lower paying jobs also make the same amount as the women in those jobs. Crazy how that works.

OkSundae3514 · 2024-08-18T01:41:57+00:00

These “people” walk among us

Rdo889 · 2024-08-17T22:55:23+00:00

wtf is a nail tech

Mradul4488 · 2024-08-18T00:02:19+00:00

Bro I swear you're just 🤣

TheFamBroski · 2024-08-18T03:27:40+00:00

last slide knows best and if you’re on this sub and wholly disagree it’s for a belief in men’s rights but in bad faith, nobody is free until we’re all free

yadayadayadaetc · 2024-08-17T23:38:37+00:00

I agree in large with the last one

Title	I went into a feminist sub and asked about a pay gap. Here are the dumbest and funniest responses I got
Author	weatherinfo
Upvotes	220
Comments	111
Date	August 17, 2024 10:39 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1euu4ao/i_went_into_a_feminist_sub_and_asked_about_a_pay/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-went-into-a-feminist-sub-and-asked-about-a-pay.1527537 https://theredarchive.com/post/1527537

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