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The Extra Chromosome 21 Convention

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May 2, 2019
224 upvotes

Occasionally we get some aggressive or persistent spammers on our board that require a heavier touch of the mod tools. In full disclosure, I want to talk about the guy "Dream" from the 21 Conventions that he puts on, and his behavior here on TRP, and how the mod team has decided to handle it.

For as long as I've known about him, Dream has had a habit of drive-by posting low-effort videos and announcements of his grand events. When I say low effort, I mean he either spams us with content from his youtube channel, or posts an attempt to get us to buy tickets to his events, and then leaves for months at a time. He does not stay and engage with the community, and he certainly does not add value to the community.

His content obviously serves one purpose- his goal is to increase his visibility and ramp up his numbers (and sell you tickets) but he does not post with the intention of enriching TRP, he only posts with the intention of enriching himself. And we've got proof that he knows this.

When he posts his shitty car commercial or puts out "alpha soap" commercials (I wish I was kidding), it's obvious that he sees TRP as a means to and end, but does not see TRP as an investment that must be contributed to. This is a marker of hucksters.

Now, don't get me wrong- I actually really support the idea of somebody putting together a conference (or anything) that's strictly for men, by men. The idea of growing the community and helping men network is something I'm personally very invested in. The idea behind a conference is not what I'm taking exception to here. Our mod team generally gives a lot of leeway to anybody attempting to put forth good-faith effort to enrich the manosphere or TRP in general.

But when you do this, you need to have respect for the platforms that you engage with. (Or, heck, just try engaging them at all.)

Dream drive-by posts advertisements and calls it quality content, then leaves, completely ignoring the hierarchies and methods of gaining respect in our community: you don't get recognition without putting in the time to cultivate and contribute quality content that benefits the community.

You've probably noticed that's why we give members like u/gaylubeoil some slack on selling t-shirts. Because he cares about the community and puts in the time and effort to make this a better place. If we told him 'no' to selling t-shirts, he would still contribute to our cause because he sees the bigger picture.

Dream, on the other hand, does not.

My few brief interactions with Dream have been quite disappointing to say the least. Despite my respect for a number of members he's invited to speak - including Rollo and Rian, my interactions with Dream have put into question what his intentions are and whether he has the skill-set to accomplish his goals.

His lack of social skills or awareness put in doubt that he's an able leader of men who could steer anybody in the right direction - let alone men in need of help.

When confronted with friendly reminders of how our forums work (and how to succeed here) he instantly goes into super-ego-protection mode and lashes out, insulting the very people from whom he is asking for help. Sprinkle in some delusions of grandeur and a heavy dose of bravado and you get this:

(To RPW Mods)

"Your sub is a joke. It doesn't have to be, but you keep it that way by banning anyone with an edge. Very sad. I'll fix it for you ladies in a few years."

Followed by:

"Can you unban me temporarily? I have a major announcement to make this week for red pill women."

How anybody can be so completely unaware is astounding. Delusion is too weak of a word.

His lack of social awareness isn't limited to his dealings with us... the alpha soap commercials and the fast cars convention commercial all lack a critical self-awareness, and only serve high-level amounts of cringe that I suspect can only be achieved by the aspergeriest of aspies.

But even if his heart was in the right place (in spite of the terrible execution) we cannot look past the fact that these conventions cost a whopping $1500-$2000 per ticket. One might think this guy is pocketing some serious cash at the expense of our community. And one would be right- he self admits it to TRP mods in modmail (he just can't help himself but to brag):

"And I've been doing is since 2006 at 17 years old after finding the manosphere in 2005. [...] I'm done giving a fuck. I'm a millionaire running 3 businesses. You can get behind what we're doing or eat a dick."

One might take a second to ponder... if this is all he's done since 17 and now he's a millionare.. where do you think that money comes from? Of course, this is provided he's actually a millionaire, which let's face it, most millionaires don't have to brag about it.

In fact, most people who are actually successful don't have to brag about it.

"I grew up with 2 sisters, have cold approached 7,000 women, and banged several."

Gentlemen, I smell a huckster. If he's getting even a little rich off these conventions, that means he's overpricing these tickets to pocket as much as he can under the guise of "helping" men. And lets face it. Newcomers to the manosphere are often vulnerable guys who simply don't know what they don't know yet.

And he has the gall to try to run his tricks here on TRP. Not on my fucking watch. No way, no how.

What's funny is, if he had social skills, he could have been cooperative and friendly and likely managed to forge a relationship of trust with our community. But he's too busy running his mouth to realize how many bridges he's burning.

Read my temp-ban private message to him regarding the fast cars commercial

His full reply a few months later:

Thanks for your patience. Been busy setting up 3 conventions this year, we're a few days out from the patriarch event. I appreciate the stickied speeches and announcements.

It's unclear what is considered "spam" and what isn't. These seem to be referee calls made on the fly rather than strict adherence to a specific policy. That's understandable given that my companies and content walk a fine line between business and organization for men. The event tickets costing 3 to 4 digits, and then the speeches publishing for free, are the best example of this issue in action.

You didnt like Sharks and Patriarchs in terms of value. What about Sons of Patriarchy? That's a bit longer and more interesting. What about Gender Wars Episode II with Elliott Hulse? That's nearly 2 hours long. All of these videos promote our events, and IMO, have value. They are the most well produced videos in the entire history of the manosphere. Why not allow the subscribers decide what to upvote or downvote? Unless and until it presents a serious and obvious problem I don't see the issue with that policy in relation to our content.

TRP can help these videos go viral on Youtube and reach new men who need the red pill. That is part of why they are produced the way they are. That Lambo trailer broke 150,000 views across all platforms. New men were exposed because it was so triggering and well done. This is something the community should decide, not you.

21 Studios owns a majority of both The 21 Convention and The Red Man Group. This content is not just "good", it represents the most epic events, speeches, and podcasts in the history of the manosphere. Period. They blow every single competitor out of the water. Most sucked or otherwise gave up. Making content at this scale, intensity, frequency, and quality within the manosphere is seriously difficult.

And I've been doing is since 2006 at 17 years old after finding the manosphere in 2005.

"Some in our community" sounds like some sour mods and the child of Chernobyl.

I am a proud salesman. I am the best in the world at what I do, my convention rocks. Every dipshit who hasn't attended, yet wants to talk shit can suck my balls. I saw an EC a few months ago qualify his post about 21 with "I dont know anything about it...".

Why do you think Rian and Rollo support 21 so strongly? Rian has never sold a ticket to the convention. He aint doing it for the money. He's attended twice and understands how incredible it is. That's impossible hiding behind a keyboard.

I drive by post because I feel - accurately - that I'm constantly walking on eggshells in this community,one post away from being banned, as I constantly am. RPW, MRP, and temporarily TRP. No more, I'm done giving a fuck. I'm a millionaire running 3 businesses. You can get behind what we're doing or eat a dick.

In fact I challenge you personally to attend 21CON. If you don't like it I'll personally cover your airfare and hotel. If you don't I think you're a weak bitch. That goes for every mod getting this.

I love TRP. It's a powerful idea I stand behind 100% and the best tribe in the manosphere. It's also grown beyond Reddit, onto twitter, blogs, youtube, and 21CON. The leadership here is weak, half the mods are spergs, half the ECs are keyboard warrior frauds like IM.

I'm happy to talk this over face to face btw. I'm a pretty nice guy.

Redpillwomen is a bad joke. They need MWGA. You're hiding it from them. Triple gay.

Have a great day.

It's like reading the rantings of a bi-polar madman. I hate you, I love you, but you're gay, but please help me promote my product!

All of this in conjunction with what I've heard from others (Check out the reason Richard Cooper pulled out of the convention!) I am convinced that Dream is not the type of guy who would lead us in the right directions. He treats all interactions by AMOGing everybody, doesn't understand politics, and burns bridges faster than he can build them.

I very seriously doubt he knows jack shit about the red pill. He's shown through his actions he doesn't.

Just like how he brags about being a millionaire, you can see why he brags about being a good salesman. Because he isn't one.


Post Information
Title The Extra Chromosome 21 Convention
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 224
Comments 131
Date 02 May 2019 02:20 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/237072
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/bjvhpi/the_extra_chromosome_21_convention/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
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Comments

[–]Modredpillschool[S,M] [score hidden] stickied comment (1 child) | Copy

For the reference, here is my modmail to him that he's responding to (regarding the fast car C21 patriarch commercial):

It's a blatant ad bereft of valuable content. (i.e. spam)

As the head mod, I think I should make this clear to you. I think it's great that you're putting forward the effort to make a convention for men (and fathers). On that front, I typically allow content creators a lot more leniency on our board because without them, what would we have?

You may even recognize that in the past I've stickied 21 Convention announcements and speeches recorded from it. When I think there is serious value to be gained I have no problem with your content.

That said- we don't want spam, and we certainly don't like the front page being littered with low-quality, low-content fluff pieces. It's a well produced teaser, don't get me wrong, but it is a teaser. It doesn't provide our members any benefit. /r/TheRedPill is a different medium than I think you're used to. It's not a flashy lifestyle marketing tool- it's a place to compare notes for men. Men who are wary of salesmen.

If you stick around long enough to notice- the creators we give leniency to are the ones who have already earned the respect of the community with their contributions. While some of your content certainly is good- it walks a fine line between content for the community and free-sample content for the exposure.

There are some in our community who question your motives, given this drive-by posting behavior of yours. Some very well respected members here are skeptical of your approach: alpha-soap commercials and convention teasers with fast cars. We see very little engagement with the community and no new insights to take away.

I think that if your goal is to appeal to this community, you're going to need to reanalyze your approach to it. You've ruffled a lot of feathers- including my own in your chat with my Redpillwomen mods. Flashing your subscriber numbers and calling my sub a joke isn't going to get you far with us - and it does put into question what sort of advice for men you approve of if basic social skills aren't in your repertoire.

The ban is temporary because we wanted to have this conversation with you before you continue. I hope you can take away something constructive from this.

This ban has since been made permanent.

[–]Endorsed Contributormallardcove129 points130 points  (4 children) | Copy

The concept of a 21 convention, or a meet up of red pilled men/manosphere men, is something that has never appealed to me. I for one believe its best to be a red pilled man anonymously. In the words of Mr. Incredible from The Incredibles, "I work alone"

[–]chubz4you59 points60 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lets put a couple hundred guys who are trying their best to be “alpha” in a room together with no women and listen to these self selected bastions of truth ramble on about their fever dreams of hypergamy.

In the words of Randy Jackson. “Thats gonna be a no for me, dog”

This self help drivel is getting out of hand.

[–]1LowCreddit26 points27 points  (0 children) | Copy

Only I can walk my path. No one else can do it for me. The best I can hope is for wise men to light it for me so that I can better see it.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro40 points41 points  (0 children) | Copy

Theres a good reason why the 12-step anonymous self help groups base on anonymity. It’s for the killing of the ego.

[–]someonesopinion69692 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Me and a close friend have been discussing red pill ideas for a while, whilst we never explicitly admit it. that's an attitude i think that is needed

[–]Endorsed ContributorFereallyRed45 points46 points  (17 children) | Copy

It's a shame because of the squandered potential.

But there comes a time where you have to take out the trash.

His business is not manosphere, It's taking money from people who honestly are looking for answers, and making frankly pathetic "this is what a man looks like" videos.

His soap commercial looks like it was filmed in a vacant park behind his suburban house. Lazy.

Selling the sizzle, not the steak.

Could have been a great platform, but he's alienating the very demographic that sustains him.

Which really makes me question his entire brand. Anathemic to TRP.

Taking a public P.T. Barnum stance re. your customers is never a good idea.

Not the kind of guy I'd ever give money to.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

As for the soap commercial and his being a millionaire, this girl looks very cheap imo.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

alienating the very demographic that sustains him.

It would be more entertaining if it wasn't so sad.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (13 children) | Copy

I’ve never understood people who say you can’t charge money or sell stuff- like it’s unethical to do so.

Many of these same people are typing on $1000 cell phones.

Capitalism is ok. If someone charges 1000 dollars for a conference and people pay and enjoy, that’s a win. That’s not ripping someone off. If you deliver a product or service of value and the customer buys and enjoys or even comes again the next time, that’s business.

Promoting and selling is also good. Again IF your customer is happy about their purchase. I think he had released that like 97% were satisfied, I can’t remember. I make a good income myself but probably wouldn’t see the value is his conference. But hey, some people do.

If you don’t like him spamming, that’s fair. But don’t somehow paint him out to be evil because he’s running a successful business. That’s such a liberal socialism move. Rich people aren’t evil. He’s taking great time, energy, resources, intelligence and planning to make events people are happy to go with AND as far as I can tell, are the only conferences like that in the world. So he has a monopoly. And rollo says good things about them and states they are some of the most meaningful and powerful events for men. Some men have their lives improved and changed.

We need to stop the outrage culture on people selling products or services for a profit. Literally, the reason we are all able to communicate and type on these phones on the web Is because of capitalism and people being able to sell products/services for profits- sometimes even healthy profits! Shame shame! Lol

[–]modSlyGradient[M] 9 points10 points  (11 children) | Copy

We don't have a problem with capitalism or people trying to make money. The problem is with people trying to extract money without providing equal value in return. Focus on providing value, and you are good to go.

We can of course debate about what is actually valuable, but that is a different question. The problem in this case is the focus is not on creating value, but purely on how to squeeze more juice out of the exact same fruit without adding anything. Simply repackaging something that exists for free without adding any meaningful content, then charging $1500 a pop for it, falls into the latter.

Yes we realize some men may pay all that money and go to these events, and feel "good" about it. But TRP is not about "feeling warm and fuzzy". That is not the way of men.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy

Well that is a fine philosophy.

To remain true though, you would need to demonstrate that people didn’t like the conference or felt ripped off. From everyone I heard from it seemed like a good experience. I wouldn’t pay that much but some people will. If they enjoy it and even want to return then it’s all good.

You can’t know if he’s not providing value unless you go or if you have actual attendees reviews.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy

To remain true though, you would need to demonstrate that people didn’t like the conference or felt ripped off.

No, you'd need to demonstrate that somebody is hawking spam and ads that miss their targets to demonstrate that he doesn't understand his own audience.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (7 children) | Copy

Lol. Internet advertising conversions are like .01%. Hence why people pay pennies per click. Every ad on the internet is spam if you use your loose definition.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy

And that's why we don't allow non-members to advertise on our forums.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy

Why would you allow advertising at all is the real question.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFereallyRed9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy

And the shit storm comes full circle.

You champion capitalism and making a buck over all in your first misguided post. Not the issue.

Now you are using the argument that trp shouldn't advertise at all if it is to remain "pure".

If you have one foot on either side of the the fence then you have a picket up your ass.

Think about what you type.

You've invalidated yourself.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (3 children) | Copy

No i didn’t. I said capitalism is good. It’s not better than everything. I just said it’s a false narrative to think it’s evil.

Haha, I would love to hear about our annual income or education level. You’re all alphas in the keyboard world but not the real world.

I made 40k last month bro. 😉

[–]ShotgunTRP3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You've got the wrong idea

Glo sells pt packages and tshirts, rollo sells books, rianstone sells pt packages, other guys flog and promo their stuff here. Capitalism is a-ok

These guys don't get called out because they provide high value posts and thoughts for the purpose of discussion without trying to fleece the user base out of every cent

TRP has always been extremely wary of the snake oil salesman because it wants to keep a clean nose and not take advantage of its userbase.

It doesnt want blood sucking parasites that will erode the community from the inside out

Its merely a protection mechanism to aid the longevity of the community

[–]TwentyEighteen2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don’t see any potential in it. This type of thing would only attract clueless and lazy guys so they can spend their money on information that’s easily available online

[–]WarViper133740 points41 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'm glad the mod team posted this. I have been pondering for a while now about writing my own post about this very subject but figured it would have been nuked within minutes. I love the idea of the 21con where men get together and share ideas etc. But what I hate about the 21con is that it has turned into a celebration of the monetization of the manosphere. Tickets are outrageously expensive. The average guy could never hope to go there and meet with some of these men. While I do enjoy the presentation that many of these men give there are lot of them that are selling a product at the end (come sign up for my private counselling, join my private entrepreneur forum, etc.). While think it is ok to make money off of what you are good at it is really starting to push things off into a gray area. "come buy my version of the redpill." is how I'm starting to see it.

I think the final straw for me was when ADJ posted his rant on youtube about Richard Cooper backing out of 21con. I have lot of respect for Richard even though he does some of the stuff I don't always agree with (advertises soap, private counselling for both business and on how to unfuck yourself) but I think he is an all around good guy that offers good advice to young men in a way that won't turn them into raging MGTOW's. That rant gave me a lot of insight into how ADJ thinks and I just didn't really care for what I saw. Then he posted some other stuff to youtube about another guy basically calling that man a bitch. In the end he was acting like a petulant child towards these guys he didn't like and was using his platform to berate them.

[–]modSlyGradient[M] 42 points43 points  (0 children) | Copy

And this, if you are wondering, is why we don't allow people to promote their own website, blog, Youtube channel, etc. on here, except for flaired members who have been vetted. Otherwise TRP would turn into a shitshow of every crappy PUA coach and snake-oil salesman trying to peddle "their product".

Our goal is to keep this place as a source of knowledge for men. Nothing more, nothing less. A flame in the darkness.

[–]Miguel78492 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Where did ADJ posted about Richard Cooper?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

It was on the 21 Convention YouTube channel. Not sure if it's still up. It's a 10 minute video. It starts out with him talking calmly, and ends with him holding a big rifle, yelling at the camera, and pretty much completely losing frame. He was unnecessarily disrespectful. I understand why people have problems with Richard Cooper (a lot of his videos are just him regurgitating Rolo's books), but I think he's helped a lot of men begin their journey to the pill, myself included.

[–]Psychological_Radish38 points39 points  (0 children) | Copy

ADJ always struck me as very odd and insecure in his appearances on the Red Man Group. I've known guys like this, including men in my own family. They are passive-aggressive and become internally enraged at any perceived slight. They have no real beliefs or values, just whatever best suits them at any given moment, which is why you get baffling and contradictory messages such as what the mod posted above. It's impossible to deal with them because they live in their own made-up reality. In my view, these are hallmarks of a deeply Beta guy who desperately wants to appear Alpha, which is reflected in his language and content.

Seems like the mods were extremely reasonable and he just couldn't take yes for an answer without trying to one-up them.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil65 points66 points  (9 children) | Copy

The heart of the issue is that there is a fundamental opposition between our masculine values of stoicism, strength, struggle and the late capitalist Buy Buy Buy! Infomercial values that Anthony "Lead Paint" Johnson represents.

RedpillSchool and I have tried for years to unfuck this organization from the outside by wasting hours of our time explaining to their retards what masculintity is. They're simply not interested in masculintity they are interested in taking the money of our audience and giving nothing in return. Our patience has run it's course.

If the 21 convention was about masculintity its men would be masculine. They are not. In fact they have a wide selection of unmasculine men from

Elliot Hulse the dude who thinks getting pegged by his wife is a deep spiritual exploration of the divine feminine

To

The adorable character that I lovingly refer to as the Family Hobbit.

[–]3Yakatonker16 points17 points  (5 children) | Copy

Elliot Hulse is a patented retard. Also wondering if the guy picked up a permanent chemical addiction. A big no in my book.

[–]Frenetic_Zetetic15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

Elliot Hulse is a fucking space shot loser misleading another brand new generation of gullible stupid fucks, who will then sell courses parroting the same bullshit to even more gullible stupid fucks. Repeat until everyone doesn't know how to deadlift properly anymore.

[–]Endorsed ContributorSKRedPill12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy

What was that term for something that seems smart at first, but when you look at it, it's actually bullshit?

EDIT : This phenomenon is well known. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordSaladPhilosophy

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Commonly found in Jordenetics. (Peterson drivel)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Funny enough, one of the guys Peterson debated is far worse with his word salad. Eric Dyson I believe?

[–]3Yakatonker2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Georgetown University professor Michael Eric Dyson"

Jesuit schools are epicenters of "social justice", communism and all that other centralized ideological trash.

[–]bright-morningstar9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Elliot Hulse looks like he is in a great denial, minimizing, rejection about his childhood traumas and psychological abuse. He even goes on and says his dads not giving a fuck about him was just him being an Alpha male and that is how men should be. He is supplying his wife and kids for decades while preaching for MGTOW and red-pill in a weird unreliable way.

[–]GodOfDinosaurs16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

Elliot Hulse lost his fucking mind during his Youtube hiatus. Anyway,

The heart of the issue is that there is a fundamental opposition between our masculine values of stoicism, strength, struggle and the late capitalist Buy Buy Buy! Infomercial values that Anthony "Lead Paint" Johnson represents.

I'd push back against this because TRP also promotes the view that human relations are ultimately transactional, which is very much consistent with late capitalist ideology. You might argue that 21 has very little use-value, but the exchange-value is what matters in the marketplace. And TRP loves marketplaces.

[–]kfd_capital1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ever since Elliot responded to getting roasted by Elgintensity, I couldn't take him seriously afterwards.

[–]Chadster11326 points27 points  (3 children) | Copy

Why would anyone pay 2000 for a ticket when you can pretty much get all relevant speeches and content on YouTube

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

The old 21 Convention format was much more appealing to me back when it was about pickup. Had they kept that format, but brought in more TRP types to give presentations, then that would be awesome. Now it just seems like it's about fleecing people who don't know any better with the sky high ticket price. If I wanted to pay $2K for a convention, there are much better ones out there IMO.

[–]Chadster1131 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yea this is a new niche market that has opened and if you’re smart enough and know even a handful of game techniques you can pretty much take advantage of people who want to fix their problems. It’s almost no different than the gypsy telling you your fortune if you just shell out a “little bit” of money.

[–]someonesopinion69691 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

any desperate dude wanting pussy is capable of spending 2 grand on some magic formula to get between womens legs

[–]FullMetalAsshole21 points22 points  (7 children) | Copy

People like Dream and Rollo are (unbeknownst to them I hope) destroyers of culture. Any artistic or cultural movement is bound to take on characteristics of the dominant socio-economic paradigm simply through interaction. The problem is when the spirit of a movement is compromised for pure economic gain and loses its edge as a result. This is how we arrived at the 21cumvention. They’ve taken what’s new and necessary (the red pill) and are using that as funnel for cash from lost men who don’t know any better. The lost can’t even recognize what’s going on as it takes form of a capitalist exchange which their already conditioned to accept as normal. Sad.

Also taking advice on women from a dude who’s gf was a stripper and who’s wife left him really don’t jive.

[–]red_matrix13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Whoa - Rollo put out all his stuff for free, and it still is by the way. Rollo’s stuff is the basis of TRP imo, what exactly do you disagree with about Rollo (and it’s okay to question and disagree - I just don’t understand why you’re lumping Rollo with Dream). The Rational Male is the most recommend reading resource on this sub, and for good reason.

Dream’ on the other hand is a joke.

[–]7thAnvil10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

To put Rollo and Anthony Johnson in the same league is just idiotic. The VAST majority of Rollo's high value content is available for free on his website. Some people prefer having the best essays in book form so he profits from that. So what? What's ironic about The 21 Convention is Johnson (with Rollo's leadership) put on a great convention in 2017. I got a lot out of it. The key was the red pilled attendees I met. Some of which I'm still in contact with. The whole experience was unique. We fucking bulldozed the downtown Orlando party scene. Closest I ever felt to being in a hyper-masculine gang. And the feeling was pure power! That said, Johnson was arrogant beyond belief and over 4 days couldn't find the time to introduce himself and thank me and my buddy for attending. His keynote speech was beyond over the top. He came off as a megalomaniac. I believe every word the OP posted about him. I suppose my bottom line is we can absolutely renounce the promoter of the 21 Convention without conflating his work with his personality/likeability. It's kind of a mini travesty as if his social skills were minimally competent he could be a hugely positive influence in spreading the red pill message. United we can fucking take back Western Civ and divided we won't even be a footnote in history. It almost makes me believe powerful BP interests are intentionally stroking the flames of infighting within the manosphere.

[–]redvelvet_oreo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The whole experience was unique. We fucking bulldozed the downtown Orlando party scene. Closest I ever felt to being in a hyper-masculine gang.

Why pay for this experience when you can make this experience your self by using the concepts you learned here? Its much more rewarding to do this yourself. I have done this several times over on my own. From entering a fucking club on my own alone and walking out with a ton of new people I met having some of the best times of my life to subsequently gathering people later on together. Being my own leader. Making connections with some valuable people and fucking some chicks giving me life lasting memories. In a society of weak people its easy to be a leader. Stop being a follower.

[–]Jake_le_Dog0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Maybe most people need to hear this stuff rather than read it? I always thought people like to explore new ideas and delve into new stuff for hours on end. Throughout experience, I see the masses don't concern themselves with such things. They'd rather listen to someone willing to tell them the "secrets" to achieving their desires. The kind of "secrets" that are otherwise openly available - with most things, most of the time - it's only time they'd need to dedicate to learning them.

What I'm saying is: I guess there's a huge market for this - at least before we collapse to hell. Maybe the war before the collapse will change everything anyways.

[–]TRP VanguardHumanSockPuppet12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Regardless of whether a man hears or reads Red Pill material, he won't learn anything until he goes out and applies it in his life.

[–]FullMetalAsshole3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

They’d rather listen passively then become an active force in their own lives. Their consumption acts as a pacifier of their innate ineptitude. Sure, some people will learn for a bit and then advance deeper into the field and this is good. They will realize that ultimately the onus to better themselves falls on them alone and cannot be externalized. But most will not. They’ll simply obfuscate their passivity through alpha soap, field reports, and MAGA hats.

This is one of life’s most harsh red pills for most people. Some people are incapable of embracing their true freedom and will never take on the Ideological change willingly. Those who can have to lead those who cannot. The people who cannot will always be in the majority. Any relationship is inherently hierarchical in this way no matter how egalitarian liberalism tries to convince you otherwise.

The other side is that those who are capable and have the drive have to be cognizant of those who are trying to exploit this drive for pure economic gain rather than actually helping them become free in a meaningful way.

[–]BACONisKEWLEST4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’d edit that from ‘some people’ to ‘the vast majority’. You can’t water a seed that was never planted in the first place. Most men are fucked from birth, there’s nothing really there to nourish and grow.

[–]stat149016 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lmao that commercial was so cringey

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

21 convention and all of the participants in it have no idea how to handle criticism and can only resort to ignoring it. This is pretty obvious from the way that Anthony Johnson writes like a frustrated child who didn't get his fruit snacks or the latest Pokemon game, going threw the typical stages of child-like temper tantrums. Eventually trying to play off their dissatisfaction and inability to deal with the situation with feigned superiority, "I don't need that Pokemon because mine is much better anyways" - "I don't need to be part of your group because mine is much better anyways because they listen to what I say unquestioningly and give me money!" This is the epitome of mommy/daddy games played out on a commercial level. How the fuck does anyone call this child-like group anything resembling masculinity?

[–]Endorsed Contributoritiswr1tten29 points30 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sad to see but had to be said.

These alternative thought spaces have 3 visible "producer types":

  1. Writers who write for the individual person as individuals, seeking to spark change in the individual's life

  2. Writers who write for the collective, seeking to spark cultural change or build a collective of their own

  3. Rent seekers who aggregate other's work or produce essentially zero content, but seek to monetize "the brand" (that could be TRP, masculinity, MGTOW, whatever)

While 1 and 2 can be at odds, we both have essentially noble goals.

Guys on either end who want to monetize that are free to do so with blessing of the respective community organizers who created and maintain the spaces or brands in question. I do it for free but take no issue with thoughtful monetization of one's own work.

3 is parasitic and should be publicly trashed. It coopts other's work just like plagiarism. 21con creates division. Our collective thought experiment (which might include substantial disagreement among respected members) is the actual value.

[–]FiteMeImAMan29 points30 points  (11 children) | Copy

Anthony never sat well with me. Even when first discovering the red pill and the personalities revolving around it, something just felt off about him. I could never put my finger on it until Richard vs. Anthony went down. It made me realize his weasel-like character.

Additionally, watching his behavior (frankly, several of the RMG guys too) on Twitter just confirms it. For those that aren't on Twitter, there's a decent amount of blending between the manosphere, Tradcon women, and libertarians, and it's refreshing. They agree to disagree respectfully. They all interact with each other some. But when Anthony or Rollo come into play, it's nearly impossible for civil discussion. They always seem to talk down to those that disagree with them or somehow end up promoting their stuff (Rollo's blog/books, 21C, etc.) during the argument. It's really low behavior.

The red pill and Rollo's books have been a godsend and I am forever grateful for it. But the Red Pill brand that has arisen can shove it.

[–]TheGreatGatzb15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed, my friend.

I called Anthony out about his cringe worthy Gallardo video on Twitter Dot Com (among other things), & I immediately got blocked. I even offered one of my cars (McLaren 720s) for better optics, but he called me a “flexing hater”. I also offered him tips for better optics & Marketing moving forward. He didn’t want to hear it.

As for Rollo, I simply asked Rollo why he was all up on Andrew Tate’s dick & Rollo blocked me. There’s a huge echo chamber on the “Red Pill” side of Twitter Dot Com directly contributed to by ADJ & Rollo’s propensity for blocking anyone with dissenting opinions or ideas. I respect Rollo’s contribution to this community (reading the Rational Male was the start of my life changing forever), however I think it’s apparent he has sold out.

It occurred to me very early on that ADJ has something off about him. I was in the process of writing a post on my thoughts about him & the 21 CONvention when I saw this stickied post. I’m glad this community has decided to take a stand against this blatant money grab by a huckster looking for a quick buck. It gives me hope moving forward that the mods have this community’s best interests in heart. The shift from creating value for the betterment of men to creating self-defined “value” for a quick buck (I blame Christian McQueen for this) was alarming & not a direction I ever want to see this community take. I wouldn’t be where I am today without finding The Red Pill back in 2013, & applying the FREE contributions the incredible ECs have given this community. There’s no way 15 year old me would have ever been able to afford any sort of paywalled content.

Thank you u/redpillschool & the rest of the mod team for taking a stand, and not compromising what this community stands for.

[–]Psychological_Radish14 points15 points  (7 children) | Copy

They always seem to talk down to those that disagree with them or somehow end up promoting their stuff (Rollo's blog/books

I don't understand the Rollo hate. Rollo's blog isn't monetized, it's only his book where he makes a profit...and at $9 an e-book with the profit split 50/50 with the audio book narrator, I doubt he's making a whole lot of money. Rollo has been very fastidious about avoiding the perception of getting rich off the Red Pill, although in my opinion he shouldn't have to.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat12 points13 points  (5 children) | Copy

Rollo’s blog and books are foundational. And his involvement with Anthony is only the result of his desire to reach and teach men in need of the red pill. I fully believe his stated drive being meeting men at the previous conventions expressing their gratitude to him directly. All of this is very noble on his part.

But then there also is the reality that he is a poor performer on video and on Twitter. I just can’t stand his talking about a 30sec concept during a 30min monologue. He’s not the most masculine guy out there, and his efforts to look tougher don’t cut it and result in giving a vibe that something is off about him. And then there’s his cringey tweeting, putting Tate on a pedestal, overdoing the prediction bit, unnecessarily engageing blue pillers, blocking the lightest disagreement, etc.

I really have nothing but mad respect for everything he’s done for me and for men in general. But I can totally get why people discovering Rollo in 2019 through the RMG and Twitter don’t feel the same amount of respect.

[–]Psychological_Radish0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

But then there also is the reality that he is a poor performer on video and on Twitter.

I don't agree with that. It's a rare person who can speak extemporaneously on a topic with as much fluidity and duration as Rollo. This is the mark of a man who is true expert. You don't like his lecture style and that's fine. Other people do, though.

He’s not the most masculine guy out there

Rollo attributes his sexual success to his time as a rock n roll musician in the late-1980s, when that genre of music was at the height of its popularity. He played an edgy character that women wanted at the time. No different than the rappers and DJs who fulfill that role today.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fair enough on his talking style being a matter of taste. I really like his writing but finds his talking closer to rambling on and on. To me he absolutely needs the writing medium to collect and organize his thoughts.

On the second point, we’re not talking about the same thing. I don’t deny his claim to have had a rock star past. I don’t deny his ability to implement his own teaching. I don’t deny he got laid, nor have a loving wife. I’m only talking about his current masculine appearance/style or lack thereof. He’s not tall, or strongly built, doesn’t have a deep voice, or a strong poise. Especially when you put him next to rich cooper, rian stone, or don sharpe. And again, that’s not a criticism. We can’t all be blessed with Chad genetics. I’m only saying that his overplaying the ultra masculine characteristics that he doesn’t obviously has give it all a hollow ring. Like he’s playing a character on a set. It lacks congruence as PUAs would say. And that whether or not you agree, or wether or not you find that’s a problem, this “odd” feeling will still impact people who see him for the first time on videos and have yet to read his outstanding work. They’re more likely to judge him negatively ahead of getting to know him. Compare to Rich Cooper or Shawn Smith who, to me, really seem to “act like who they really are” which makes their listeners more likely to listen to what they’ve got to say.

[–]Psychological_Radish1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I’m only saying that his overplaying the ultra masculine characteristics that he doesn’t obviously has give it all a hollow ring.

I never got that impression at all. I understand why people would be offput by his preachy style, but frankly this is a bizarre criticism.

As to his physical attributes, that's why I brought up the music thing. Look at any of those 80s rockers...Axel Rose, Tommy Lee, etc. None of those guys looked conventionally masculine with their long hair and rail thin bodies, yet they were the Apex Alphas of their day. Most younger guys finding Rollo now probably won't relate to his experience, but what's he supposed to do about that? I will say that Rollo looks really good for 50 (Brett Farve lookalike) and was probably quite handsome when he was younger. That and the music shtick give him more credibility than most guys in the manosphere.

[–]kfd_capital0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly i find this common in people who have great thoughts on paper. They tend to ramble on a subject.

[–]cupshadow6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I give credit to Rollo for a lot of reasons: consistent body of work, having the patience to respond the same questions over and over and being objective, as opposed to click-baity marketing that most Youtube channels and blogs resort to.

[–]Warped_Mindless2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

What happened between Rich and ADJ?

[–]WarViper133719 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy

Richard decided to back out of 21con and officially end all his support for it. Richard was in one of the commercials that ADJ produced and Richard requested that he be edited out or the commercial taken down. ADJ then threw a literal bitch fit about it and posted a lot of drama about it and even made a youtube video calling out Richard. The whole thing makes ADJ look like an angry man child who sits on his high horse. Richard was calm and cool and simply said he decided to pull support for personal reasons and left it at that which is how a business should be handled.

[–]Robster259 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

I admire Anthony for what he does and the effort he puts in his business. On the other hand I believe he is a fake and an absolute autist. His high-pitched laugh is extremely fake and kind of like the laugh of a psycho (just watch some videos of him..it is 100% not genuine). No wonder he was married to some psycho-bitch, like attracts like.

He doesn't contribute to the red man group, let alone the red pill.

[–]1empatheticapathetic8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Jimmy fallon of the manosphere.

[–]1Self-honest8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

He sells "the dream" of a $2000 magic pill that we all know doesn't work like that.

One of the best things about this iteration of the manosphere is that the first step advocated by flaired members and others alike, is the destruction of the idea that there is a magic pussy/masculinity pill.

To exploit that weakness for financial gain is disgusting and manipulative and eerily feminine.

Every guy would be better off spending that 2k on a gym membership and healthy food for the year, some new clothes, and some books.

Any advice to the contrary is not trustworthy.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Here is what I the problem is, 21 convention sounds like a great idea, but if you watch their RP videos of their convention and RMG(Red man group), you'll notice they all just regurgitate material from the sidebar and barely add anything else on the table. Basically, it's just a convention where men gather and circle jerk each other, "oh my god, women this women that, HYPERGAMY!!! HYPERGAMY! HYPERGAMY! FUCK FEMINISM! YAY HOW AWESOME ARE WE? We all agree with one another".

I can't see the use of going to a convention that's just reiterating the same material we've talked on this sub too many times and that's FREE on the SIDEBAR and yet having to pay $1500 for a single fucking ticket. Talk about a waste of money.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (16 children) | Copy

When you mentioned pump and dump I was immediately reminded of Rollo Tomassi. His content is scientific and fills a niche but I feel like he wants to sell his books more than engage with the community which is why he NEVER responds to anyone on Reddit and when you get his attention on Twitter he blocks most people, including me.

OK, I get it were all human and some of us are more busy than others but he cant even take 1-2 minutes to reply every few months on reddit? He has the time to bicker and AMOG on twitter but not reddit? Seems fishy to me. Also here's him arguing on twitter hes smarter than Socrates and so are all 12 year olds.

[–]Psychological_Radish19 points20 points  (7 children) | Copy

Nah Rollo seems like a standup guy. He's done more than almost anyone else to advance and articulate Red Pill concepts. He could be making a lot more money from this thing than he actually does. His blog isn't monetized. He shares half of his book profits with the narrator, which is generous. The Rational Male is $9 on Kindle for God's sake.

It's weird to me how he chooses to associate with loonies like Hulse and ADJ, but all I'm getting from this is that you don't like Rollo because he was mean to you on Twitter once.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

I'm worried his behavior is encouraging others to be just like Anthony. The RED Pill is a large community where a lot of us are looking for guidance and Daddy Rollo is showing very immature behavior.

[–]Psychological_Radish7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

So out of 55,000 tweets you found one that was silly. I'm not convinced this makes Rollo a big fat meanie head.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

A role model displaying pathological neglect and amoging on reddit and twitter, yes. If dad is an alcoholic so are the sons in which case 21con probably took note consciously or subconsciously.

[–]Endorsed Contributoritiswr1tten5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Rollo was instrumental but wants a pulpit, not engagement. That's fine and he can do him but I don't view contributions without engaging the comment section as equal to guys who post AND engage.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Things move very quickly on social media especially in a genre like sexual strategy. Rollo not engaging with the community will make him out of touch with its needs and eventually hit him financially.

[–]awakenedspirit10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Capitalism is pretty awesome

[–]Modredpillschool[S,M] 17 points18 points  (5 children) | Copy

Rollo's a good guy and he does a lot for the manosphere. He definitely doesn't spend much time engaging in comments when he posts here, but he makes up for it by presenting a consistent and well written blog. The books are icing if you want to buy them, but by no means is that the only value he provides.

His choice in company is a little off putting in this case but I don't think there's any reason to jump on him. My beef is with Dream.

I suspect his support of C21 is a lot like his support of other endeavors (including TRP.RED) in that he wants to see the manosphere grow. But I would like to hear from him regarding this behavior from one of his compatriots.

[–]jacques_cousteau0075 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Rollo wants to see the manosphere grow man by man (he’s previously mentioned on a MGTOW podcast that men’s suicides worldwide due to intersexual pressures is personal for him).

I think he’s aligned with Dream because he sees it as the best avenue to promote his blog and literature -and by extension the TRP field of thought - in the mainstream (where the money and exposure is).

But men here on TRP know he’s picked the wrong horse (21 con) where someone with little to no standing in the community is acting as the figurehead for the whole manosphere.

It’ll be interesting to see the TRP mod team organize some free market competition to ADJ’s 21 convention, where manosphere bloggers can gain mainstream exposure while credit goes where credit is due — the TRP vanguards.

[–]modTheRedPike5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

best avenue to promote his blog

Sure, it was. At some point you need to realize that the guy you are standing next to picked up a flamethrower and is currently incinerating every avenue out of the muck. The reality is that we told Antony what was going to happen well over a year ago. He doesn't listen to anything except what is in his head.

[–]1empatheticapathetic1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fortunately Rollo has enough credibility based on his content to be able to distance himself and survive any such implosion that may occur in the 21Con, don’t you think?

[–]modTheRedPike2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I do.

[–]Skyhawk_And_Skyhead0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My thing with rollo is that he straight up called ADJ purple pill, but he likes the idea of a "Red Pill Summit" and kind of hijacked that.

[–]someonesopinion69691 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

best to take everything you digest with a pinch of salt

[–]BlindingTwilight 1 points [recovered]  (15 children) | Copy

The manosphere doesn’t need enemies like feminism, it has it’s own branches to fight with and devour. PUA vs Red Pill, Incel vs everyone, GLO vs TFA, MRP severed from TRP, MGTOW vs vaginas. It’s like watching a patient fight 10 different diseases.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy

Boohoo masculintity is competition. Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.

  • Michelle Obama

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree that the manosphere is stronger together than apart. We maintain the LTR and MGTOW flairs because I believe them to be on topic (even if they're somewhat at odds with different viewpoints here).

I think academic disagreement is healthy, and a natural way to progress our theories.

But when there's cancer, it must be purged. And this guy is cancer.

[–]Blacklabellogics5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I like the idea of having those tags specifically because a lot of men will most likely move through the categories somewhat over time. A guy may come in because his LTR isn't working for him and he wants to fix it, apply the knowledge, realize that his LTR does not fit his desire, move to the pick-up/game side of things for a while before getting into another LTR. Or a guy may get cheated on, decide to go Monk-mode MGTOW for a bit, then hit game and so on.

Being able to cater to men at different stages in life, with different needs and who seek out different information is a good thing. I also think it adds different perspectives and opposing viewpoints, which are always good for honing arguments or incrementally improving ideas.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper23 points24 points  (11 children) | Copy

Feminism isn't our enemy... it's just part of the terrain.

And we don't need to be allied, because we are not a movement. We speak to the individual man. We give him ideas for how to fix his individual life. There is as much value in us arguing as us getting along, because every man has the ability to pick and choose what he listens to... nothing, everything, or something in between.

[–]tyronethejabrone4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

we are not a movement

Which, ironic or not, makes it all the more dangerous

[–]RainySeasonInPH2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy

Feminism isn't our enemy... it's just part of the terrain.

Would you not say though - and I ask you as THE person who would know - that feminism has engendered the social climate that makes the red pill necessary in the first place?

There is as much value in us arguing as us getting along

Is there really? I see your point about each one must do it for himself, but why is there an absence in men for the instinct to cohere, on principle, to an ingroup?

I find few things more repulsive than a male feminist, but I can at least construe that they have a motive, however misguided. It always surprises me that there is not more of an impulse amongst the various manosphere factions to stand allied.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper12 points13 points  (7 children) | Copy

Would you not say though - and I ask you as THE person who would know - that feminism has engendered the social climate that makes the red pill necessary in the first place?

People tend to ask why things happen, until they reach something they wish to blame, then they stop asking why that bit happened.

Feminism can be identified as the cause of a lot of bad shit, but what is it an effect of? What caused feminism? When you understand that feminism is itself caused by larger socioeconomic forces, then you understand feminism as a symptom, not the disease.

I see your point about each one must do it for himself, but why is there an absence in men for the instinct to cohere, on principle, to an ingroup?

Because men come together for missions, not to gossip, socialize, or be part of something. And here, there is no overarching mission. My mission is me. Your mission is you. We can compare notes, but not work together.

[–]Jake_le_Dog1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

The cause of feminism would be the discovery of psychoanalysis and its application in the corporate world? Let's say that's as deep as I've gone down - yet.

But the question isn't rhetorical, what do you think caused "the movement?"

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

Not psychology. Psychology is simply a form of junk science that eventually serves as a cart horse for every crank political theory out there.

When you examine the spread of an idea or fad, you have to ask two questions; where did the idea come from, and what were the factors that allowed the idea to take root and spread.

The first is simple: Feminism is the application of Marxism-Leninism to the family unit. This can be hard to understand until you realize that both feminism and Marxism must be understood via observation, not via what they say about themselves. Then the commonality of form and function can be seen.

The second has a great many more factors involved.

[–]Endorsed ContributorJamesSkepp4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The first is simple: Feminism is the application of Marxism-Leninism to the family unit. This can be hard to understand until you realize that both feminism and Marxism must be understood via observation, not via what they say about themselves. Then the commonality of form and function can be seen.

Convergent evolution. Just b/c feminism and marxism look and work similarly, doesn't mean they originated from the same thing. I get the redistribution (of power and money) thing is same endgame, but the origin is definitely not.

The reason feminism rose to power is b/c it's appeal to women's nature. That's b/c the origin of feminism is woman's nature. "I will push the boundary as much as I can with my man." Now apply this principle across ALL women in Western world for last 150 years, probably even before that (due to technology making men less and less relevant). Do you think they are not comparing notes with eachother, even if not as coordinated and deliberate action?

[–]Jake_le_Dog1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

feminism and Marxism must be understood via observation

Actions not words I deeply understand and apply, yet I might not have entirely internalized the idea that feminism is an application of Marxism. I see that resources are reallocated (economical aspect) to the female from the male, not just in familial relationships, but society-wide. It's inescapable now. But feminism also teaches women to become more like men, and vice versa, what's that? (it's some form of neutering, but why? is the neutering unintentional, and just designed to make people dissatisfied with their lives?)

Not psychology

questions [...] what were the factors that allowed the idea to take root and spread

I tried to imply that the development of psychological advertising must have been the cause of feminism, as in, instead of telling you why you need something, they make you feel you need something to become "happy," "loved," "more like your idol," etc. And then I guess I could tailor the first question of the two and amend it with "who did the idea come from/who perpetuates it?" to back my point.

Any thoughts? Again the previous questions weren't rhetorical either.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Actions not words I deeply understand and apply, yet I might not have entirely internalized the idea that feminism is an application of Marxism. I see that resources are reallocated (economical aspect) to the female from the male, not just in familial relationships, but society-wide.

You've mistaken the basic structure of what Marxism claims to be for the basic structure of what Marxism is.

Marxism claims to be about wealth redistribution, but that not actually the central modality of its operation in action.

What Marxism actually does is construct a narrative that separates humanity into an oppressed class and an oppressor class, with any individual wholly a member of one or the other. It then constructs rationalizations and calls to action for the warfare of the one against the other by any and all means available, without let or limit.

Does the claim that feminism is Marxism applied to the family make more sense now?

[–]RainySeasonInPH1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Funny Story. I was writing a medium-long rebuttal, in which I compared feminism to the KKK and pointed out that if we are both black, then we may not share common missions, but we share a common enemy. So fuck the KKK and fuck feminism, regardless of what caused them. Then I said okay, that could be more persuasive. What does Whisper hate? Socialists. So I looked up Stalin and who was he persecuting? Kulaks for one.

After some research it occurred to me: that while if we are both black we both might stand together against the KKK, if we are both kulaks, the fact that Stalin is trying to kill both of us doesn't mean shit. You look after your own farm, and I look after mine, and we might give advice to and compare notes with other kulaks, at best. There is no group in the face of that level of persecution.

Which brought me to a point that is actually a lot more interesting than my intended thesis: The degree of rationality in standing allied against an oppressor has a lot more to do with the power differential between the conflicting groups, than it does with the nature of the the groups themselves.

So, I'm going to scrap my original response, that was in the vein of, well men, and men's groups, should stand together because fuck a common enemy, in lieu of, feminism is a lot more like Stalinism, i.e. a massively ubiquitous and overpowering oppressor, i.e. terrain, than the KKK, which is basically a more or less homicidal nuisance, that could be regarded as a common enemy.

So, while I would still stand by the notion that men should stand allied, in reality the appropriate response for a man, or a men's group, is probably somewhere on the spectrum between "what is bad for men is bad for all men, so stand allied" and "fuck it it doesn't make a difference, this calls for individual tactics."

On the other hand, there is operating on principle. Which is something that the oppressed can ill afford, but which is, between the genders, essentially masculine. Which is perhaps why I hate to see men not stand up for other men so much. It strikes me as unprincipled; thus unmasculine; thus hypocritical; and essentially contemptible.

Anyhow, if the prior analogies advocate any argument, I am going to admit that it would have to be along the lines of, whether the kulaks and the intelligentsia have anything to gain from cooperating. My tentative answer is probably not. So I can see where you're coming from. But they certainly cannot benefit from being in conflict amongst each other.

Also just like to add that this has certainly been an interesting exploration. As always, your writing, whether I agree with it or not, makes me put my thinking cap on. Which is appreciated.

[–]The_Red_Trooper7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Any man going to the 21 convention is getting ripped off. Red pill content is all over the internet for free. I am shocked that rollo would participate in such an event. I always thought that Dream Johnson was a bluepilled Trad Con. I use to watch the red man group on YouTube but its slowly turning into a shit show. Donavan Sharpe and Steve William's are constantly talking down to the men who call on their show. The only person on that show with good information is rollo.

[–]1empatheticapathetic2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Triple gay

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Three lefts is a right.

[–]SomeCleverMoniker2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

He might be a psychopath (the actual condition), they are often delusional and make really poor decisions.

[–]OSaraiva4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't know first thing about that Dream guy, but if he puts the same amount of effort and quality in his advice and conferences that he puts in his videos, they must be pretty shit.

[–]someonesopinion69695 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

$2000 for a ticket just to see some dudes talking bout being oppressed by womens lol what a fucking age we live in

[–]HornedBul7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

so, essentially from what I could gather

Dream

  • Organizes convention for men by men
  • Despite the expensive ticket costs, still puts out valuable videos from the convention for free on youtube
  • Only comes to this sub to advertise his stuff

Mods

  • Request Dream to either do quality posts or to not post at all

I've seen some videos with Dream, and I do agree he doesn't come off as genuine. There's just something about him I cannot put my finger on. Nevertheless, he puts out great content for free and provides good value with it. What I don't understand is that how he won't take the effort to make quality posts on this sub. I mean, it's nothing compared to the effort he takes on his other stuff.

In response, this sub mods are asking dream to either do quality posts or to fuck off, which is more than reasonable.

All these insults from either side are just unnecessary drama which to be quite frank I'd rather not waste my time on.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

We really expected him to understand and modify his posts a bit. Instead he decided to go down in a fit of rage.

[–]SteelSharpensSteel2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

He did the exact same thing on MRP, and got banned from there as well.

[–]modRedForEducation3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

That is a fairly accurate assessment.

[–]kfd_capital1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Elliot Hulse talks like Obama giving a speech written by the Ultimate Warrior" - some rando on youtube that nailed it.

[–]Beastrik1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Very defincient in Social Skill

He had an evil ex wife that was hooking on the side. All I could say during his explaination of it was : "Dude , how did you NOT know?!" Any shock I felt from his story was a reaction to how oblivious he was and I just kept saying the same thing in my head.

[–]redvelvet_oreo2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

LOL I like all the pot shots at IM. IMs posts and blog have been some of t he most helpful content I have found on TRP. They hate because IMs content is quality and best of all its basically free. Im not riding IMs dick just read his blog. His blog could be a fucking book that I would buy twice.

These guys are wasting dudes time and money. I dont feel bad for the idiots who buy into this shit. Why do you feel the need to attend? I can sympathize with someone going to an RSD bootcamp to learn game and go out in the field with people and an instructor but wtf are these guys trying to accomplish with these expensive ass seminars?

All smoke and mirrors and digital marketing. If you cant learn it here on this sub and some external entities that are mostly free then your a tool. Your just a pussy ass follower still brainwashed by the blue pill and a slave to the digital age where everyone just follows everyone else and is more obsessed with the brand then the actual content.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The convention is all just circle jerking one another, what's worst is the info they provide is already provided in this sub's sidebar for FREE. This is why many in the TRP don't advocate for meet ups with one another. We as men, fundamental to our nature, strive to achieve our goals and place our stature firmly into this world, at most we just need to push one another on this sub and many find success with that.

What's terrible to the RP meetups (there has been quite a few in the last few years) is how disastrous they always end, they end up mental masturbating on what they know and because of that they don't improve.

Many that attend these conventions think paying $2000 for the knowledge is going to transform them to become an alpha male, but no, it does not, as we all should know, action taking is what creates growth. IM is really a great writer tbh, but sadly he's not been publishing anything the last 2 years.

[–]organicsunshine1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

[–]ChadThundagaCock1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This fuckwit is a con-man who doesn't deserve a dime of the money he's taken from desperate men just looking for guidance.

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[–]dulkemaru510 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I'm happy to talk this over face to face btw. I'm a pretty nice guy.

Haha ... RPS, does he know what you look like? If not, let me do it. I totally got emotional like a girl, but damn.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Once I heard he was a nice guy my panties melted right off.

[–]dulkemaru510 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Girl, yah.

On second thought, as schizo as he is, I bet he Dreams about getting the Vasily treatment, so my efforts wouldn't have the desired effect.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am waiting for him to record the whole thing then torrent it. I have no shame in saying it because simply this is complete bs. You can just make this into a course is something better than a cheap convention, this is nothing more than an ego boosting profit making machine that piggybacks of new comers that want to change their life.

[–]redpillschool 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

/u/userleansbot

[–]dingleburry_joe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Any way i can get these glo cutoffs?

[–]cooldadnerddad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Who’s willing to step up and organize an alternative to 21 convention? Seems like a lot of guys like the idea, but not the implementation.

Disclaimer: I could never do such a thing for fear of being doxxed. I imagine many are in the same boat.

[–]c4toyourdoornobeef-4 points-3 points  (7 children) | Copy

Well done. Clearly this man was helping out the community out of the goodness of his heart and what do you do? You ban him. Fucking pathetic.

Edit: I was clearly being sarcastic you fags.

[–]FullMetalAsshole4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

If that’s the standard you hold your help to, may Allah have mercy on your soul. Dream the type of dude to sell you an ass hair straightener and call it alpha.

[–]c4toyourdoornobeef-2 points-1 points  (5 children) | Copy

I was joking?

[–]modTheRedPike10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

Dangerous business in a thread where we there is high potential for drama.

[–]c4toyourdoornobeef0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I mean clearly the post speaks about how he charges ridiculous prices yet I said that he does it out of the goodness of his heart, some guys clearly are retarded then.

[–]Senior ContributorMentORPHEUS7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Quit DEERing, just stay out of this.

[–]c4toyourdoornobeef-5 points-4 points  (1 child) | Copy

dk what that is but okay bro

[–]awakenedspirit1-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Recovering feminist pick up artist here, I'm pretty new to this community.

What I love about this particular forum is the directness. No drama, no ego. Let the ideas stand on their own merits. Honestly seems like a great marketing opportunity for the 21 convention, which obviously in spirit I support.

Drive bys really just show a lack of understanding of what this community is. It's too bad.

[–]4pointdeer-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

Some screenshots to prove he said what you're saying he said might add more credibility to the post.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can fake a screenshot just as well as you can fake text.

The words he said are in our modmail, nothing has been falsified. If you don't believe me then I think you're in the wrong community.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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