Whys is it that BP are usually economic liberals yet SM conservatives and vice-versa with RP.

RPSigmaStigma · 2016-10-07T14:26:18+00:00

It seems like you're implying that TRP is sexually egalitarian in the way that liberals are economically egalitarian. This couldn't be further from the truth. Nothing about TRP says anything like "men should have more equal opportunity for sex with women" or whatever. Sure there are some whiners on TRP, but they're either noobs or they just don't get it. TRP is all about a laissez-faire SM, and successfully competing within it.

sunkindonut149 · 2016-10-07T14:28:25+00:00

If you were born autistic and ugly then suck it up and accept you will die alone.

Neither RP nor BP has told me this. RP tells me I can improve my SMV despite being autistic and ugly. BP tells me that I should be valued in spite of being autistic and ugly. (And fwiw - I'm diagnosed autistic, and pretty hard on the eyes.)

The difference is that of degree. RP / BP isn't PUAhate. TRP / Seddit isnt stormfront for men (mensfront?) most participants are in good faith imo. Just like most Trump voters aren't racist. I'm a liberal and I don't think Trump is a racist.

They believe in these things because they accept the idea that success in the Economic market-place isn't always fair. Some people have a huge disadvantage against others.

When it comes to the SM most BP are laissez-fair and libertarian. You can only get what you can get.

No, that's bullshit. Look at all the Body Image campaigns that BPs and feminists put out. They talk about men's body image as well as women's and call out bodybuilders for promoting an unrealistic image.

This is all about evening the SMP playing field. RP teaches people to lift, cultivate personality traits that are more masculine, etc because it believes in individual change while BP believes in collective change. But imo, they have the same aims.

A female version of this would be Everyday Feminism vs Cosmo. Cosmo is more RP and teaches women how to look good and seduce men. Everyday Feminism teaches women the roots of these standards that they are working toward when they follow the tips that Cosmo teaches.

Ultimately being a total slob sucks but being obsessed with fitness isn't the right way either. Its about finding personal balance for yourself. Both RP and BP are post-Freudian in that they view the SMP as the primary market and others as secondary markets so that your SMV is the rate at which your personal value is lent to banks from the central bank.

And to most people this is a bitter pill because we think of ourselves as individuals. That is why Freudian psychology is so primal and hard hitting. But ultimately its not the only psychology.

super-commenting · 2016-10-07T14:53:05+00:00

I think the difference comes from the fact that ownership of ones body is a much more fundamental right than economic ownership of property. Taxation in the sexual marketplace (ie being forced by the government to have sex with someone) would be absolutely barbaric. By taxation of property is more acceptable because property rights are kind of artificial.

What do I mean property rights are artificial? Think about it this way. Suppose you own a plot of land. What makes your claim of ownership over that land legitimate? Probably you bought or inherited it from someone else. But in order for that to be valid the person you bought it from would have had to have had a valid claim over the land and in order For their claim to be valid the person they bought it from had to have a valid claim etc etc. but if we go back far enough we'll find a point where the land was unowned. No one had a claim over it. Any one was free to walk across the land, pick the flowers, do whatever. And then some guy (or government) came along and said "this is mine, no one else can use it" that doesn't sound very valid at all. The only reason anyone listened to him was threat of violence. But if the original guys claim wasn't never neither is anyone else's.

So we can see from a philosophical point of view that some kinds of ownership are farcical. But from an economic point of view not allowing anyone to lay claim to the land is inefficient because then no one would do the labor to extract the resources. So we come to a compromise. We allow people to claim land and other things as their own but we tax the value they create using these things and put that tax to serve the greater good (or at least that's the goal). The tax represents a compromise between recognizing that some of the created value was a result of things you do have a claim over (your own labor and ingenuity) while some of it was the result of things that were philosophically unowned (natural resources, the intellectual contributions of past generations etc)

shoup88 · 2016-10-07T14:44:26+00:00

I'm politically liberal, but not on the extreme end of the spectrum.

I don't see any hypocrisy between supporting liberal economic policies but not similar measures in the SMP. The reason being that I haven't seen any SMP suggestions that wouldn't violate someone else's bodily autonomy. Short of assigning sex partners, what can the government do to help the less sexually fortunate?

If you were born autistic and ugly then suck it up and accept you will die alone.

This is a straw man. I fully support self improvement and harsh truths - I just don't see the benefit of government funding in this case. The things a person has to do - work out, eat well, work on social skills - can be free or cheap. Money is not the problem, personal motivation is.

[deleted] · 2016-10-07T14:54:38+00:00

The title is misleading - in the title you say BP are Sexual conservatives, in the body you say they're sexual libertarians.

The body more accurately describes BPs as libertarians, except that BPers always castigate RP as "wrong". So BPers many times take a moral stance toward sexuality and cast RP in terms of "right" and "wrong".

BPers take the libertarian stance with sex to advocate their own beliefs; but take a moral stance to argue against RP. They take that moral "right" and "wrong" position with RP because, well, they just don't like RP; they don't like RPers for trying to get laid, and they don't like the way RPers go about getting laid. Simple as that.

pitaenigma · 2016-10-07T16:22:01+00:00

What the fuck is this bullshit? Nobody on TBP ever said you shouldn't self improve. What the fuck have you been reading?

Archwinger · 2016-10-07T15:00:19+00:00

Blue Pillers are economically liberal and Red Pillers are economically conservative because Red Pillers are selfish. We want to keep our money, and to hell with less fortunate people, unless they're hot and fucking me.

Blue Pillers are sexually libertarian and Red Pillers are reformed and reforming sexual conservatives who are trying to become sexually libertarian. The big difference isn't the philosophy, but the behaviors that go along with it. Blue Pillers believe that you are who you are, and if you're true to who you are, shit will magically work out and you'll find the sex and love you were meant to have, however much or little that is. Red Pillers are fine changing who they are, what they do, and pretending things to get laid, so we focus on developing looks and social behaviors and pretending to be sexual libertarians to maximize sexual opportunity.

midnightvulpine · 2016-10-07T16:18:42+00:00

The so called sexual market deals in people and emotions. Why would you think someone who believes in a social safety net to prevent people from falling into poverty and dying due to lack of the basics would want people compelled to somehow address the lack some have when it comes to intimate attention?

The two are vastly different, there is no cognitive dissonance in not treating them the same.

wub1234 · 2016-10-07T14:59:27+00:00

Firstly, the problem with the existing system (in many nations, less applicable to a handful of European nations, but not Britain, I assure you) is that it combines all of the worst aspects of both schools of thought. You have a coercive, authoritarian, state-driven system, but it's also extremely unequal and unfair. It's really the worst of both worlds.

In answer to this point:

If someone is sexually successful it's because they strapped-on themselves to success. If you grew up being lied to by society about how to be sexually successful it is your fault for believing it.

People continue to believe that success in all fields is some kind of meritocracy, but this is particularly delusional with regard to dating, sex, et al. You have very minimal control over how physically attractive you are. And equally (I would say even more so) you have minimal control over whether any individual member of the opposite sex will be attracted to you.

As I said previously, there are very strong cultural reasons why we're encouraged, and have a tendency, to believe that achievement and attainment comes through effort. It's because the controllers of society want us to believe that we live in a meritocracy.

It's just not the case. While hard work is necessary in any field to achieve a modicum of success, you are also always confined by your own potential, and indeed the existing socio-economic system, plus probably many other coercive factors. Thus, this person:

If you were born autistic and ugly then suck it up and accept you will die alone.

...has virtually no potential in the sexual MP, no matter how hard they try.

Because RP is a belief system that emphasises hierarchy, eventually its adherents believe that not only is this natural, but it's even desirable. And then eventually they don't feel any empathy for people in a difficult situation, as this is just some Darwininian inevitability. Or some will even believe that they can drag themselves out of it, simply by trying hard.

While I believe that there are always things we can do to improve our circumstances in life, I still feel compassion for those less fortunate than me.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2016-10-07T14:44:09+00:00

Its because we don't view sex as something which is a commodity. Red Pillers do. This contradiction only exists if you assume from the get go that sex is something which can be seen through an economic lens.

Even those of us who support sex work don't want to see sex commodified.

Also, I am not a liberal...

[deleted] · 2016-10-07T14:35:36+00:00

I don't think it's a good characterization of either side... I see it more as the very human tendencyto to think about everything others have as worthy/needing of sharing and whatever we have as a scarce resource worthy of protection. Yes, selfish. But we are wired that way.

ppdthrowawai · 2016-10-07T15:29:19+00:00

I believe in the value of hard work, pretty much across the board. Don't see where the inconsistency is.

GaiusScaevolus · 2016-10-07T15:46:20+00:00

I suspect most BPers would argue that sexual poverty isn't as detrimental or even lethal as economic poverty.

[deleted] · 2016-10-07T16:35:11+00:00

(I know i'm generalizing, but you get the point).

You want us to debate giant, broad, and inaccurate shoe-horned stereotypes.

Why?

This is the definition of jerking off as it pertains to this sub.

sunkindonut149 · 2016-10-07T14:44:02+00:00

Although I haven't put much thought into this subject, I'd say that in general, RP tends to be men that believe in being individually responsible for their actions. (inb4: but they whine all the time! that's the guys that have NOT yet accepted what they are learning) Being RP means I am responsible for how my life turns out DESPITE the odds being stacked against me.

In my PoV, BP tends to want to just even the odds for everyone, which I can see as altruistic to an extent, but pointless overall. In my mind, you can only do so much to ensure equal opportunity, and past that its on individuals to make the best of the hand they were dealt. But I believe at least some BPers actually would like to see everyone be given an equal outcome REGARDLESS of the work those individual put in to get it.

And in truth, I'd be in full support of more "welfare" type programs IF the country could afford it. (Speaking of the US of A here of course.) Our economy is in the shitter, so we do NOT have the money to invest in our own people right now. If we fix the economy? I'll be more than happy to talk about public assistance. Until then? I'm not at all interested in having that conversation.

[deleted] · 2016-10-07T15:20:45+00:00

BPers do well in the smp but get blown the fuck out in the economic marketplace. Everyone just wants what's best for themselves and rationalizes why it's good for everyone

[deleted] · 2016-10-07T15:44:44+00:00

It seems like a much more interesting post if you picture this while reading it

wynterpetals · 2016-10-07T18:00:08+00:00

because bodily autonomy. we cannot force people to fuck you. sorry, not sorry.

ApatheticAnarchy · 2016-10-07T22:24:29+00:00

Interestingly enough, there has also been some correlations that show that the 'conservative brain' acts based on fear and emotion, while the 'liberal brain' is more apt to problem solve.

drok007 · 2016-10-07T14:33:36+00:00

I think you are confusing RP with incels. But incel types who are libertarian elsewhere do this I agree. With that edit, I would agree with what you say as something I've noticed as well.

Title	Whys is it that BP are usually economic liberals yet SM conservatives and vice-versa with RP.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	16
Comments	207
Date	October 7, 2016 2:12 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/56bjll/whys_is_it_that_bp_are_usually_economic_liberals/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whys-is-it-that-bp-are-usually-economic-liberals.272543 https://theredarchive.com/post/272543

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