is this situation "rape"?

hyperrreal · 2016-09-01T17:45:19+00:00

Really really hard to take this seriously, but no it's not rape. The command hallucinations are a part of her, even if her personality is so fragmented that she experiences them as outsiders. You can't rape yourself.

What is the point of this question?

ozymandias271 · 2016-09-01T18:28:48+00:00

The men she has sex with are not committing rape, because the crime of rape requires mens rea, which they do not have.

The woman is probably best treated as a rape survivor in addition to a schizophrenic by her psychologist.

CoochQuarantine · 2016-09-01T17:51:51+00:00

I'd say no. If the command hallucinations told her to give away her purse and someone accepted it, would that make them a thief? They could not be a party to a criminal act they were not aware of was happening under coercion.

super-commenting · 2016-09-01T17:56:42+00:00

It might be valid for her to claim that she feels like she has been raped but this part

no one on earth knows this is happening in her head but her

Makes it absurd to claim that any of the men she was with are rapists.

--Bob__ · 2016-09-01T18:24:07+00:00

Not rape nop

but wtf is the hypothetical scenario

TheScamr · 2016-09-01T19:46:32+00:00

If she is giving the OUTWARD presentation of consenting to rape then she is not being raped. The men are not rapist, but she does need, at the minimum, counseling in effective strategies to stop having sex that is both outwardly consensual but inwardly unwanted.

caesarfecit · 2016-09-01T20:27:24+00:00

This is why I think rape must turn on a question of coercion/duress, rather than consent.

If the standard is consent, then the entire case turns on the woman and her story. That's in nobody's best interest, as it means the only way for a lawyer to defend a rape charge is to ruthlessly attempt to assassinate the woman's credibility/character - which also places judges/the law in a bind, as either the victim is open to all kinds of dirty tactics, or the defense is hamstrung by rape shield laws.

Having guilt or innocence of a crime rest almost entirely on somebody's story is not how the justice system does or should work.

Whereas a standard of coercion means the case turns on observable facts rather than the victim's testimony. Was there signs of struggle, were drugs involved, was there a weapon, was the victim held against their will? The victim's testimony still matters, but it's no longer the central issue.

The only catch to this approach is that the feminists will howl. Because the corollary is that it means women must explicitly refuse consent in order for any following sexual activity to be considered rape.

But then again, this standard also exists to some extent regarding normal physical violence. A fist fight can actually be legal in certain jurisdictions (see: mutual combat doctrine), but this also goes out the window if it becomes a self-defense situation (one person refuses to fight/continue fighting, is backed into a corner or suffers serious bodily harm). This is why violence in contact sports like hockey or rugby is totally legal, but not if somebody crosses the line à la Todd Bertuzzi/Marty McSorley.

But on the other hand, threatening to fire someone unless they sleep with you certainly meets the coercion standard via extortion.

StickItInTheToilet · 2016-09-02T00:25:54+00:00

Not rape.

Your scenario says that the men have no idea what's happening inside her head, because outwardly she is enthusiastic.

The men cannot possibly be guilty of rape.

ProbablyBelievesIt · 2016-09-01T17:40:08+00:00

If soldiers force two people to have sex, guns pointed at their heads, which of their victims is the rapist?

midnightvulpine · 2016-09-01T18:36:20+00:00

Having sex with someone not in control of their faculties hits in the realm of consent issues pretty hard. It would be similar with people with Alzheimer's or other metal impairments. Of course, the issue would be muddied if the men were unaware of the condition.

Invalidity · 2016-09-01T18:01:08+00:00

This is a bit of a stretch to be honest.

The notion of "women can't consent while unconscious" is dubious at best. I agree in most cases that men should be wary if their partners are or do become unconscious. However, the ambiguity of it leads to characteristic flaws.

If, as a man, you are having sex with a woman, and she happens to become unconscious, are you guilty of rape the second she does become unconscious? If not, how long does a man have before he has to cease his actions? How can you prove that a man wasn't penetrating a woman for longer than the "acceptable" duration? If it becomes a he-said-she-said, she would most likely win in such an outcome.

For that matter, would it be nearly impossible to engage in sexual relations with an epileptic/narcoleptic individual? If the person loses their ability to function, is that not conducive to rape? If you're having intercourse with an individual and they either are having a seizure or fall asleep, does that not mean that as soon as that does happen, the man becomes a rapist?

The law cannot be made ambiguous otherwise it becomes difficult to reach a justifiable verdict. If a woman cannot provide consent when she is unconscious or unable to function, then it can only mean that it is rape every single time.

Does that seem reasonable to anyone?

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Title	is this situation "rape"?
Author	Atlas_B_Shruggin
Upvotes	10
Comments	101
Date	September 1, 2016 5:37 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/50og7a/is_this_situation_rape/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-this-situation-rape.273268 https://theredarchive.com/post/273268

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