Is there a correlation between intelligence and 'incel'? is 'social intelligence' greater than IQ intelligence?

alreadyredschool · 2016-04-12T19:14:42+00:00

Social skills require fast in the moment reactions, you can never be smart enough to trump instinct, unless you anticipate situations/answers...

Their go to problem solving skill is logical/abstract/creative thinking, they use it because it helps them in other situations. What they should use is their gut feeling and stay in the moment.

Here this supports my view point and perfectly answers all your questions: http://medicalhypotheses.blogspot.co.at/2009/11/clever-sillies-why-high-iq-lack-common.html

In short, it has often been observed that high IQ types are lacking in ‘common sense’ – and especially when it comes to dealing with other human beings. General intelligence is not just a cognitive ability; it is also a cognitive disposition. So, the greater cognitive abilities of higher IQ tend also to be accompanied by a distinctive high IQ personality type

Oh fuck this guy, he basically copied my post and added some fancy 3000 words to it, at least he writes behavior in a disgusting way:

an increasing relative level of IQ brings with it a tendency differentially to over-use general intelligence in problem-solving, and to over-ride those instinctive and spontaneous forms of evolved behaviour which could be termed common sense.

Great, let's say they suffer from clever silliness, now that we pin pointed the problem, let's solve it, find ways to improve it and hone their common sense skills.

Yet, whatever else, to be a clever silly is a somewhat tragic state; because it entails being cognitively-trapped by compulsive abstraction; unable to engage directly and spontaneously with what most humans have traditionally regarded as psycho-social reality; disbarred from the common experience of humankind and instead cut-adrift on the surface of a glittering but shallow ocean of novelties: none of which can ever truly convince or satisfy. It is to be alienated from the world; and to find no stable meaning of life that is solidly underpinned by emotional conviction [37]. Little wonder, perhaps, that clever sillies usually choose sub-replacement reproduction [6].

Back to your post:
EQ can be higher than IQ. That's nothing outstanding. I think IQ right now doesn't factor for social and musical intelligence, of course it is possible to be good in these fields without being good in abstract thinking.

despisedlove2 · 2016-04-12T21:05:24+00:00

My take on this is that high achieving smart people often find social interactions boring, oppressive and simply not worth the time.

When you have an exciting problem waiting for you, do you really want to sort out all the hamstering and listen to some stupid girl whine on about her first world problems?

exit_sandman · 2016-04-12T19:18:51+00:00

I remember in a psych course a few years ago we were discussing intelligence and how's it measured, one point that was made is that social intelligence can in some ways be greater than IQ intelligence

When it comes to dating, it definitely is.

IQ only helps you with people of similar intelligence, which means that it's more a drawback than a perk if you're considerably above (or below) average.

Social intelligence should always be helpful.

PemBayliss · 2016-04-12T19:29:23+00:00

social intelligence and IQ tend to be correlated up until the IQ 130-145 range. But higher than that, and social intelligence starts to become negative correlated with IQ. I don't remember where the study is.

My conjecture is that when a guy is significantly different from his peers, it's hard for him to interact, so he's missing interactions.

I don't think it's necessarily that really smart people are bad at socializing. Imagine that the average IQ in the world was magically increased from 100 to 160. Then all of a sudden, all the 160 IQ people in the world would get along with everyone else just fine. Now it's the 100 IQ guy who is the weird one who likes weird things and does things that don't make sense.

c_in_macn · 2016-04-12T19:31:20+00:00

Yes that's fairly apparent. High intelligence also positively correlates with a greater prevalence of mental illness as well.

RareBlur · 2016-04-12T20:21:37+00:00

it explains why the alpha frat bro "chad" who doesn't even study and has rocks for brains

Yeah you wish he did.. that's just your stereotype. Reality is, he's probably smart enough to get though college.

smart but awkward physics major struggles to get a woman to go on a coffee date with him.

His problem, as you've stated, is that he's awkward. You can have smart awkward people, dumb awkward people, good-looking awkward people, ugly awkward people, introverted awkward people, extroverted awkward people and they will all have the same social problem that comes with being awkward.

However, some may not care as much about being awkward.

If you want to not be awkward it takes practice. You need to learn to be self-aware. Learn how you project. Change your body language, change your speaking patterns, learn how your actions are interpreted by others or not interpreted. A lot of the awkwardness you feel might not be valid, it just might be your own self-doubt speaking.

Most people forget conversations a few minutes after their over and even if they thought bad about you, it's on them and not you.

SkinnySweaty · 2016-04-12T20:55:06+00:00

A lot of incels focus on IQ things because that is easy for them and minimize the physical. Kind of the inverse of the dumb jock.

However, success at life goes to better balanced individuals.

SirNemesis · 2016-04-12T21:35:15+00:00

I think it's more about the Dunning-Kruger effect and high conscientiousness. Social success requires a strong Dunning-Kruger effect. It's not that smart (high IQ) people are than others socially but that they're too conscientious and aware of their social limitations and thus self-inhibit. Compare to normal people who start out no better socially but don't self-inhibit and learn via trial and error.

firstpitchthrow · 2016-04-13T02:45:32+00:00

Here's something I've observed: The entire world that you live in, and everything you know, was invented by a small group of outrageously smart people, for the benefit of the masses. Your Iphone was invented by a small group of smart people to be easy to use by everyone, because having it be easy to use by people who were significantly less intelligent than the inventors were was the only way to make money on it.

When I was at Cal, I had a professor who told me the story of Berkeley Standard Unix (he had contributed to its development years back), the OS of choice on campus. Basically, the reason why no one outside the tech community has heard of BSU, despite being one of the most powerful operating systems on the planet, is that it was designed by ridiculously smart people to be used only by other ridiculously smart people. It has zero mass appeal, because its hard to get used to (but once you do, you never want to use anything else, because of how powerful it is), and it also, frankly, insulting (the famous "you don't exist, go away" reply). It was built by people who don't like other people to be used by people who don't like other people. That's why it was a commercial failure, but also why its the OS of choice for computing intensive applications. It was designed by some of the smartest people on earth to solve the problems of other really smart people. Smart people don't care about the condescending tone (and really, if you're dumb enough to 'rm *' you deserve it) or the difficulty of figuring out how to use it, they only care about how powerful it is, and how easy it is to do gigantic tasks with a few lines of code. Smart people care about efficiency, and BSU is a huge time saver, once you figure it out.

Most things in this world aren't like that. Human social interaction, from the point of view of the intelligent, is hugely ineffecient. That is because human social interaction evolved to fill the needs of the masses. You're hiring for a software engineer position, at a company, who would you pick? The charming, good looking, moderately smart guy or the withdrawn, really smart, introverted guy with a library on github? Before you answer, consider that there is something to be said for the first candidate: you, and everyone you know, can work with him. The guy whose passionate about coding is also likely to not have patience with those he doesn't think can keep up with him. In a work setting, social skills are important. Its not that the smart guy doesn't care, its just that he's so used to getting things quickly that he assumes its like that for everyone (this describes every single professor I ever had at Cal). He's also far more likely to call people out who are falling behind and who he thinks are hurting the quality of his work. Its not that he's a bad person, he just doesn't have the delicacy to prod, be gentle, spare egos, and to sugar-coat things. From his point of view, feelings are irrelevant, you are a professional, get things done.

I know this guy, who works for a major government agency with a mass of employees, and despite how many co-workers he has, he is the agency. They can't get rid of him, even if they wanted to, because his skills are so rare, and he's so good at them, that he's made himself untouchable. He's also gruff, obtuse, to the point and doesn't care what other people think. He's yelled at me, in the presence of other people, more than a few times, and I don't work for his agency. His bosses have tried to get him to be more emphatic, but he's Lebron James: it doesn't matter what his bosses want, he has the leverage to ignore them, because they need him more than he needs them (he'd get picked up by someone else in a second). Most people he works with can't stand the guy, I love him to death, and he and I can get things done working together. I don't want to work with people who try to spare my feelings, tell me how it is, yell if you have to, but so long as we respect each other, we can work together. He knows I'm very good at what I do, and he will always make time to meet with me, and I appreciate him and I don't waste his time. He's a genius, he has no social skills, most of his co-workers are terrified of him, but he's my kind of dude. He is decidedly not everyone's cup of tea.

Dating and social interaction were designed for the masses. Dating is about sub-text, and its about a lot of time spent on what is, frankly, pointless conversation. Flirting has a social function for people, but to the highly intelligent, flirting is maddeningly pointless. No useful information is being communicated, its just a waste of time and energy. Smart people don't want to spend the time to get good at it (even though the process isn't that hard to master) because they view it as an investment of time in learning how to speak in a way that wastes time.

The smartest people I have ever met have learned how to write concisely. The best doctors I've met have learned how to pack a single sentence with lots of meaning. Smart people don't ask for things, they propose things and if there is no answer, they assume the answer is "yes". Whenever I've worked with high level contractors, who are both in high demand and have little time, I've told them (Don't ask "can you talk to me tomorrow?" state "I'll call you tomorrow at 10 AM")when I wanted to talk to them, and then just called if they didn't email back asking to change the time. There are no niceties in any of that, its about efficiency, not politeness. They will only say something in reply if the answer is "no".

You would never ask a girl out on a date like that. It goes against established social norms of courtship. You want that girl to like you, so you try to impress her. Normal people see the pattern and accept it for what it is, smart people see the pattern and are put off by how inefficient it is. Its a dog and pony show, that has nothing to do with anything as far as what a good boyfriend or lover you'd make. Except that it has everything to do with that, since a relationship is about, you know, how two people relate to each other. Dating, as an exercise, has social conventions that were designed for the masses. These conventions are illogical, simplistic and inefficient, in much the same way that a peacock displaying his full plumage to attract a mate has zero to do with what a good mate he'd be. If you want to play the game, you have to pay the price.

ArthurMacArthur · 2016-04-12T20:00:18+00:00

What age range are we discussing, here?

My co-workers are exceptionally intelligent. Some of them are almost alarmingly bright. But they all have very normal social lives, and most of them are married. Of course, we are all old, decades out from college. I can't speak to what their social lives may have been like twenty or forty or fifty years ago.

damaskrose · 2016-04-12T20:20:58+00:00

I don't think it's one or the other. Some people are extremely book smart while also having high EQ. Some people have neither, and are pretty much fucked.

If you're only smart in one way, you can use that to compensate (at least partially) for your shortcomings. For example, people with a high academic intelligence can "study" people, and (more importantly) use trial/error to figure out which behaviors produce the desired responses. And people with high EQ can make themselves seem much smarter (academically) than they actually are.

I think some people shoot themselves in the foot by viewing themselves as the "intelligent nerd" stereotype who can't succeed socially, so they don't even try. Like, even if you're naturally good at math, learning how to solve differential equations surely required some level of effort & practice. Socialization is the same way. Some people are naturally better than others, but nobody masters social skills without effort.

Madness20 · 2016-04-12T21:42:28+00:00

Isn't it obvious that social and emotional intelligence is much more of a factor when it comes to relationships and getting laid?

Also, in terms of romantic relationships, most intelligent people wouldn't find any fun in being with someone significantly less intelligent than them. For instance, it's hard to engage in many social conversations when you feel most themes and people are actually really dumb comparing to you and don't amuse or entertain you at all (yes i'm a narcisist too). So, it's also much harder for intelligent people to find partners of simillar intellect.

I say by personal experience, my IQ is really high percentile (160+), or at least used to be when i tested for it, but i've been making efforts to lose my neuroticism and constant over-thinking and i feel i got significantly dumber than i used to be, i care less about people being dumb now. I'm much more happy now that i stopped overthinking and feel dumber. lol.

PemBayliss · 2016-04-12T19:27:36+00:00

Yes, there is a direct correlation between intelligence and "incel" status. I think it has been borne out in some studies as well.

People with raw "book smart" intelligence tend to be more comfortable with concepts and ideas, rather than with people and groups of people. It's probably something that comes from socialization from a very early age, as well as parental guidance and involvement. It's not that intelligence causes it; it's that intelligence is associated with certain personality types, socialization patterns and repeated reinforcement.

AdamAJ · 2016-04-12T19:29:53+00:00

Full disclosure: I am at the far end of the IQ scale. Like, giving a number is not even useful, pick one over 160.

My social instinct were rubbish until 24. Then I put together my... mask? Golem? Avatar? Or did I simply rewrite parts of myself under extraordinary circunstances? Not even my family is sure, they failed to find something singularly different until other circunstances forced me to explain my situation.

But the best part of it... It was all logical. Like logging into root an orderly deleting and replacing OS parts to meet the requirements.

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Carkudo · 2016-04-12T20:29:04+00:00

I don't think there is.

I know a few exceptionally intelligent men, and none have ever had any trouble getting laid. I myself am incel and of average intelligence.

aanarchist · 2016-04-12T23:29:25+00:00

hey if you guys miss caveman times, more power to you.

Johnny_Lawless_Esq · 2016-04-13T23:09:09+00:00

Nope. It has to do with how you were raised, and who raised you.

I made the same assumption as you for a long time because my parents are very smart, and I just assumed that smart people are isolated growing up. But then I did a bit of growing up (a VERY little bit, mind you, :D), and I realised two things:

My parents were raised in a cult (which was how they met) which was fairly small, and which isolated them when they were growing up. Social isolation and the resulting social self-reliance were therefore their paradigm for looking at the world.
I met too many very gregarious people who were also VERY smart. The captain of my college's rugby team was also the valedictorian, and his major was engineering, not some humanities fluff. Terrific guy, give you the shirt off his back. Other examples ad nauseam.

The bottom line is that Social Intelligence/EQ has way more to do with upbringing than intelligence.

TL;DR: You aren't so smart that you can't learn how to make small talk.

kick6 · 2016-04-14T19:36:41+00:00

Social intelligence and dating intelligence is all about demonstrating your value to someone else. Socially awkward and very intelligent people mistakenly think their IQ and GPA make them valuable, BUT these are things that can't be utilized by someone else....unless you explicitly demonstrate how. So yea, there's a correlation.

Ergo, if you're wicked smart, and you want someone to fuck you because you're wicked smart, you have to show them how your wicked smartness is of benefit to them.

energyvolley · 2016-04-13T09:04:39+00:00

deleted ^{^{^What}} ^{^{^is}} ^{^{^this?}}

Title	Is there a correlation between intelligence and 'incel'? is 'social intelligence' greater than IQ intelligence?
Author	AnUndecidedPill
Upvotes	2
Comments	108
Date	April 12, 2016 7:09 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4ehn3e/is_there_a_correlation_between_intelligence_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-there-a-correlation-between-intelligence-and.275170 https://theredarchive.com/post/275170

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