[Question for Bluepill] For those of you who agree that some/all of TRP's methods work, which are they and why do you still disagree with TRP overall?

ianturpiesmoustache · 2015-01-16T20:43:37+00:00

TRP offers general advice like working out, being confident, not being a push-over, etc. That's all quite agreeable.

However...

Women are not like teenagers, they're people. Women should not automatically be treated as "first mate" in a relationship just because they don't have a penis (though they're welcome to take that role if they choose). Women are not incapable of "the same kind of love" as men. Women who sleep around are exactly as gross and used up as men who do the same. AWALT is the most useless statement I can think of.

23412341234123419 · 2015-01-16T22:53:52+00:00

I like the self-improvement aspects to it. I really like that TRPers generally take responsibility for their own situation, that's a huge upgrade to the "friendzoned" guys on the internet. And I think it's valuable to have a male space where guys can just shoot the shit.

But goddamn, you guys are assholes. The douchebaggery and hypocrisy on TRP is overwhelming. Also, you don't have science on your side and every time I hear TRPers acting like they do I roll my eyes. No guys, field reports are not evidence of anything. The mass generalizations are no good and acting like every individual in a group behaves the same way is wrong at best and harmful at worst.

ILU2 · 2015-01-16T20:33:33+00:00

All of the TRP's methods work. Just not all the time. Or on all women.

This is kinda a euphemistic way to put it, but one that communicates best what I want to say to the average RPers here. For this reply, I'll also do away with the idea that the RP's ideas end at "lift, be confident" so you guys will listen to me a little. Fine, "lift, be confident, etc" is the barrier of entry to a lot of content. But that's as far into the red pill as you should go.

The mindset involved in applying these ideas to the point they're eventually successful is extremely detrimental to not only your success with women, but your happiness with them and yourself. By sticking to these unnecessary tactics, by virtue of your "numbers game", it eventually lands you into the arms of the women they were designed for; the women you despise. The AWALTs.

A habit is extremely hard to break once formed. Recognize where the necessity and sense to the Red Pill ends, and stop there. The Red Pill is legitimately a lot of hate jumbled together with a bunch of interesting sounding ideas and commonly known advice. Internalizing it to get to the commonly known and most useful of the advice is a bad bargain. And believing its useful is the equivalent of assigning your success to the prayers you did rather than the studying you put in for the exam.

Bakerofpie · 2015-01-16T20:15:01+00:00

or simply because I've swallowed the Pill deeply.

Lol. You RPers are always so good at swallowing. Hu hu hu...

You guys make shitty, fallacious arguments all the time. Sometimes I think I should offer tours just to point out all the fallacies. "And over here we see arguing from assertion, and over there is another vacuous generalization..." Just to clarify, I'm not talking about opinions - keep your opinions - I'm talking about methodology; the way one assembles information into a plausible theory. Terrible. You're all terrible!!!

I think the concepts of alpha/beta are useful...and I really don't want to anymore, but they are still...but neither is confined to either gender. There are general patterns that most people conform to in various ways, yes, but you guys have a hard time differentiating between "general pattern" and "absolute truth" because you're TERRIBLE AT SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS.

waylandertheslayer · 2015-01-16T21:48:06+00:00

I disagree with the rampant slut shaming and woman hating. Everything else is fine and dandy.

MissPearl · 2015-01-16T23:10:39+00:00

1) Crazy head games are not gender specific. TRP used the idea that biological sex differences makes their male behaviour guide a uniquely male thing. Nor do I think head games are optimal.

2) The rampant and ridiculous sexism being one of the distinguishing features, not "lift and be confident!".

3) Some of the endorsed/popular contributors and mods of the subs are absolute racist loons spouting off on the weirdest shit at a moment's notice, and this is passed along as gospel.

4) The model for ideal TRP relationships is often very sad and limited.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2015-01-17T19:43:50+00:00

talking about things like "the wall" and "negging" sorta overshadows anything worthwhile for me

waylandertheslayer · 2015-01-16T20:47:32+00:00

I disagree with TRP because it is a toxic mentality to have about life, other people, and those around you. I don't believe life is inherently adversarial. TRP, while it claims to be amoral, is used immorally more often than members of the sub would like to admit (ex. sleeping with taken women is immoral to most people).

The generalizations (AWALT) are lazy and stupid. The anger phase is lazy and stupid (and much more than just a phase, if anything, it is TRP's way of being), lifting isn't the end all be all of working out (there are other forms of exercise that one could pursue that they may enjoy better). TRP "science" is no better than useless drivel because nobody on TRP tries to analyze it objectively. The claim that men and women are "different" is thrown around a lot with no real justification, as if men and women are different species, rather than two distinct genders with minor differences.

Dread Game as TRP describes it can be used to break the will of a person (and women who behave in that manner really do hurt men, and vice versa). If I tried TRP tactics on the women I am interested in, I would probably get zero in the way of results actually, because the women I am interested have no interest in TRP types.

Not to mention that a lot of people on TRP act as if men are slaves to their sexual desires, and also act as if men who aren't are defective/beta/whatever. /r/therealmisandry really would like a word with you guys really, because if that isn't misandry, to claim that men don't have agency when it comes to desires, specifically sexually, I don't know what is.

Then there is the hatred. Why do people on TRP have to be angry or hate anything? Hatred is destructive, it leads to pain and suffering for everyone, and does nobody any good, other than the ego of the hater. TRP clearly hates women, even if they won't admit it. It is plain as day to any outsider. Their view of women is one of condescension above all else. The cognitive dissonance used to explain why women and men who do the same thing are somehow different (i.e. women are used up if they sleep around) is ridiculous, and that is coming from someone that just doesn't care to sleep around (and looks for relationships with people who are just as picky as he is).

My dislike of TRP is due to the content and the tone. The tone is shitty to begin with, but the content just puts it over the top. The fact that TRP claims to be the "truth" just makes it look cult like and even more ridiculous. Then you have the claims of the individual members, and honestly, half of them sound like complete nuts, at least.

buartha · 2015-01-17T05:22:28+00:00

I think things like seeing yourself as the prize and not allowing yourself to be let down too much by rejection (abundance mentality) and focusing on bettering yourself and pursuing things that you see as adding value to yourself can be useful, especially given that a lot of the guys who post on AskTRP seem to have some self-confidence issues or social awkwardness, which valuing yourself can go some way to helping.

Aside from the obvious 'stop being mean to women,' I disagree with basically ALL of the EvoPsych. I'm a social learning theory proponent myself due to my views on the mutability of one's erotic profile before the mid-teens, and even if I did subscribe to EvoPsych, I would be more likely to listen to theories that put optimum human mating patterns as closer to what happens in the fission/ fusion communities that bonobos form rather than hypergamy/ polygyny.

[deleted] · 2015-01-18T22:37:14+00:00

TRP aims to provide a realistic approach to relationships and dating, which I would love to see actualized. There is certainly a need for an alternative to the common romantic notions about love. TRP has been partially successful in achieving a substitute approach to dating, but in other ways has just introduced another fantasy. My views are summarized below.

What I like/agree with:

The more realistic and less idealistic approach to relationships is refreshing.
TRP gives specific and actionable advice instead of the popular but frustratingly ambiguous mantras such as 'be yourself' or 'someday you will meet the right one'.
I do agree that there are behavioral trends specific to each gender that have roots in biology.
I've met some men who fall to the opposite extreme, and they could benefit from the advice given on TRP. On a related note, if people say that TRP has helped them, then I see no reason not to believe them.

Despite these points, I would never choose to be associated with TRP. For one thing, I am skeptical of TRP's claims of being scientific and logical. To me scientific means objective, comprehensive, peer-reviewed, and using a predetermined methodology. Logic refers to a systematic set of rules used in both math and philosophy. I see no serious attempt in TRP to employ either of these, at least according the definitions given here. Some of TRP theories are rooted in science, but the ideas are extrapolated far beyond what the original science claims. I would rather say that my beliefs lie in accordance with the modern views on evolutionary biology, and therefore avoid TRP's questionable interpretations.

Another reason I ultimately reject TRP is because they do not encourage behavior that I find admirable or worthy of respect. This is just my opinion obviously, and has no weight or authority beyond myself. I aspire to be an unselfish, generous, compassionate, and accepting person, and TRP does not generally promote these behaviors, but instead the opposite.

Finally, I find the field reports to be entertaining, but they all seem to be written as a big joke. For instance, one guy was talking about his 18 year old girlfriend being a prostitute and he found out because she was storing cum in her vagina for two months. Conclusion from the thread: AWALT.

How can anyone take this seriously?

goatismycopilot · 2015-01-17T03:08:41+00:00

I am sure some of the techniques work some of the time on some women. But I assume the field reports are mostly bullshit. If somebody tried some of those push/pull techniques to make me nervous or insecure I would just assume the person doing it was not interested in me and I would move on. I am interested in people who are interested in me and life is just too short and complicated to stress about some dude who doesn't call or who doesn't want to spend time with me. It doesn't heighten my response it drives me off.

The guy I am dating pulled out this hilarious relationship book from the 80's that we have been having a grand time with. We decided we would each read a chapter and then follow the advice and mostly it has resulted in fits of laughter.

The piont being relationships and dating can be a game but if that is all it is then that gets old and so much of TRP is just game strategy. I like to think I have learned from my mistakes and I can be honest with myself about my failings and I have made changes based on those failings.

Yonderlander · 2015-01-17T14:23:34+00:00

It's content not just tone.

Things I agree with- don't put people on a pedestal, don't be a pushover, improve yourself, be realistic about people and human nature.

I wouldn't have a problem if RP replaced "women," in its rhetoric with "some people." Some people act like teenagers, some people just want to branch swing to someone 'better' all the time. Some people get jaded from sleeping around a lot. Some people are not worthy of you. Some people are neurotic idiots, shallow, unreasonable. It is evident that some people are terrible in all these ways, but not that it's only women. A lot of RPers including the sidebar attribute these things to just women, which to most of us is evidently ridiculous.

[Question for Bluepill] For those of you who agree that some/all of TRP's methods work, which are they and why do you still disagree with TRP overall?

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