Ignore the Peanut Gallery

throwinghthisoneaway · 2017-11-15T18:39:29+00:00

I disagree. That Indian dude is asking for advice because he values the knowledge of this community. You don’t read a book about martial arts and never take advice from your sparring partner. While your coach obviously is a Master and would be the go to guy for advice that doesn’t mean everything that comes out of your partners mouth is shit. The “endorsed contributors etc.” are the masters here and the others that chip in with the “rational advice” Ghandi was asking for are the sparring partners. Occasionally there are shit heads but its pretty easy to just laugh at them especially if you’ve read the sidebar.

buddhadarko · 2017-11-15T18:59:45+00:00

He specifically asked for rational advice. The definition of rational is: logical, reasonable, sensible, cogent, intelligent, etc. If you browse through TRP threads, you will see that the highest rated comments and posts are rational, reasonable, and contain sound advice.

We have to ask for advice on things because our own viewpoint may be severely lacking and completely incorrect, though, we may not see it that way. Having multiple sets of eyes on it, some more experienced than ourselves, really helps us to grow and learn.

There's a difference between being needy and seeking approval for one's actions, and actively asking for advice that is practical and sound. I think the Indian guy was just asking for the latter. We don't know if he was needy, but I didn't get that from reading the sentence that you focused on.

TPR teaches us that we have to sort out what doesn't work and focus on and continue finding what does. You can't do that if you don't ask questions.

vrihet · 2017-11-15T21:34:03+00:00

Taking advice from anyone regardless of their character is foolish, but not taking advice from anyone is foolhardy. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong or beta with soliciting advice; it's up to you to determine whether the advice is sound or stupid and act accordingly.

Bkblul · 2017-11-16T00:26:54+00:00

This whole forum is a stab in the dark. For all we know, the majority of endorsed contributors could be sitting in their mum's basement writing fan fiction.

I expect to see people asking for advice but they should take everything that's said here with a grain of salt. Make your own decisions on how to proceed/if the advice is accurate.

The same goes for people you know and respect the opinions of, just adjust how much you consider their opinion accordingly.

Bear-With-Bit · 2017-11-15T21:22:55+00:00

I call it Instruction Porn. Many of you are not here to learn, you're here to be entertained and mentally whack off to the attention and advice given, good or bad.

pohw · 2017-11-15T20:17:06+00:00

There are two possible distinct and mutually exclusive mental states that may occur in the mind of someone immediately prior to their writing a comment here.

I think I might have something to add here, something that helped me in the past, that would have been nice if someone had verbalized to me at some point so I didn't have to learn it the hard way 3 times over.
I feel really smart since discovering what this community was 3 weeks ago and now it's time to go to battle with the big boys to test myself. In lieu of actual experience, I'm going to try to figure this whole thing out--not by testing these ideas in reality, but by dissecting it intellectually online. Man, it feels cool to have these edgy opinions!

RemyBucksington · 2017-11-15T20:28:56+00:00

If I recall correctly, many of the Manosphere godfathers gave individual consultations as a paid service to men just beginning to transition into TRP.

I used to think that was silly until I read the very same FR that OP references above.

Men paying for this information were wise in that they weeded out about 80% of the TRP population: Chumps on a soapbox preaching about things they've never done.

There's something to be said for proven expertise.

vengefully_yours · 2017-11-17T08:00:38+00:00

I do not ask advice from the people who know less about cars than I do. You have to know considerably more than I do, and have proven it unquestionably via accomplishments. If you barely know how to change a tire, you know fuck all about rebuilding a transmission or designing the engine you're building. I'm not going to tell you how to code, because I don't do that, I'm not an expert, and my knowledge is minimal.

People ask me because I know what the fuck I'm taking about. I have experience and accomplishments as well as the skills and knowledge required to be respected. Any idiot can and will pipe up about what he read somewhere, not knowing the details or even why what he read was written.

Same with bitches, if you ask those who know fuck all, you're going to get shit information at best. Ask those who know what the fuck is going on.

Arty777 · 2017-11-16T00:10:02+00:00

Taken to its logical conclusion, that would mean that the entire red pill sub is worthless because I don't know who any of you people are. You're all just randos. The guy who wrote this post is just a rando to me. I guess I'll ignore his advice. But that means I can ask people for advice. I'm confused.

Triadis3 · 2017-11-15T20:44:05+00:00

The problem with giving everyone a voice is that opinion rapidly overwhelms knowledge.

Dunning-Kreuger effect, Heinleins razor.

Opinion is easily influenced by outside sources. Everybody has an opinion. It's easy and validating to be part of the herd. You never have to defend an opinion. Click that arrow, get validated. Easy button.

Knowledge takes work and time. It's an internal process. Not everyone has knowledge. You'll get tested to see if your knowledge is valid.

When everybody gets a voice automatically, the value of that voice approaches the lowest common denominator.

Plato warned about the dangers of absolute democracy way back in The Republic, specifically the ship analogy....

Plato compares the state to an elaborate and expensive ship. A ship, to accomplish a safe and successful journey, needs an expert navigator at the helm, a captain who knows the capacities of the vessel, geography, meteorology, water currents, navigational astronomy, supplies management, and other related matters. An ignorant and untrained person at the helm of a ship would endanger vessel, cargo, crew, and passengers alike. Similarly, Plato suggests, the ship of state needs expert governors at the helm, governors who are well informed about such things as law, economics, sociology, military strategy, history, and other relevant subjects. Ignorant and incompetent governors can be and have been disasters for citizens and states.

Democratic self-government does not work, according to Plato, because ordinary people have not learned how to run the ship of state. They are not familiar enough with such things as economics, military strategy, conditions in other countries, or the confusing intricacies of law and ethics. They are also not inclined to acquire such knowledge. The effort and self-discipline required for serious study is not something most people enjoy. In their ignorance they tend to vote for politicians who beguile them with appearances and nebulous talk, and they inevitably find themselves at the mercy of administrations and conditions over which they have no control because they do not understand what is happening around them. They are guided by unreliable emotions more than by careful analysis, and they are lured into adventurous wars and victimized by costly defeats that could have been entirely avoided. This is how the Republic portrays politics in a democracy.

Imagine then a ship or a fleet in which there is a captain who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but who is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight, and whose knowledge of navigation is not much better. The sailors are quarreling with one another about the steering—every one is of the opinion that he has a right to steer, though he has never learned the art of navigation.

The captain in this analogy is the owner of the ship or fleet; he represents the demos, the majority of ordinary people. The sailors are the politicians who compete to be at the helm. It had been their incompetence, as well as that of the owner, that has brought Athens to ruin in the past.

[The sailors] throng about the captain, begging and praying him to commit the helm to them; and if at any time they do not prevail, but others are preferred to them, they kill the others or throw them overboard, and having first chained up the noble captain’s senses with drink or some narcotic drug, they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free with the stores, thus eating and drinking. They proceed on their voyage in such a manner as can be expected of them. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain’s hands into their own whether by force or persuasion, they compliment with the name of sailor, pilot, able seaman, and abuse the other sort of man, whom they call a good-for-nothing; but that the good pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like it or not—the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer’s art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling.

The way to avoid the serious shortcomings of democracy as well as oligarchy is the installation of the government of technocrats that will make all relevant and necessary decisions on the basis of objective analyses and unbiased deliberations. Since neither the demos nor ordinary politicians can be expected to acquire this sort of competence, it will have to be the committee of philosopher kings (and philosopher queens) that guarantees justice, public welfare, and peace.

The idea of such a dictatorship of reason has been criticized as follows: Even if one admits that expert knowledge is necessary for the government of a commonwealth, and that most ordinary people do not have a sufficient grasp of all the social, administrative, legal, and other relevant details that go into running a government, people nevertheless need not relinquish their right to appoint the officials of an administration, or to recall them, if the results of their performance seem unsatisfactory. The owner of a ship may not know how to navigate, but he or she still has the right to determine where the ship will go. Hired expert navigators may be necessary to figure out the best means of getting to some place, but the owners of the ship should still be able to determine the ends. Voters in a democracy may not know all or even any of the technicalities of running a government, but they surely can judge the results. What is essential for a democracy is not that citizens be able to understand and do everything themselves, but that they be able to determine the major outcomes and their over-all destiny as a community.

Turning the ship analogy against Plato in this way is a persuasive move, but it ultimately does not take care of Plato's challenge. For if it is plausible to argue that voters may be too uninformed to decide on the best means to reach a certain goal, then it is also plausible to argue that they may not be informed enough to choose the right ends. A serious lack of knowledge can manifest itself not only in the way a state is run, but also in the choice of destinations. What can and has to be criticized is not only a citizenry's possible ignorance of the measures that a government might take to reach certain goals, but also their ideas and expectations about where their society ought to go--what goals they want to reach as a commonwealth. The democratic election of a leader who plans to replace a capitalist democracy with a fascist warfare state, for example, is a case in point. Hitler, it is worth remembering, was elected by a democratic vote, and it is surely not irrelevant to ask whether those who voted for him did not suffer from an unacceptable degree of ignorance and lack of political education.

The democratic decision to engage in a series of expansionist wars, as sanctioned by the Athenian Assembly, is a similar case in point. What Plato witnessed as a young man was not a lack of understanding of the technicalities of governing on the part of the demos, but rather poor judgment in the choice of major goals. Major political destinies can be judged in terms of wisdom, feasibility, logic, moral responsibility, and other criteria that make the general intellectual competence of an electorate a relevant and urgent issue. It is obviously not a foregone conclusion that whatever the majority decides is also the best—or even acceptable. Both short-term and long-term expectations and decisions of a democratic polity may be quite thoughtless, ill-advised, stupid, illusory, dangerous, or outright insane. In spite of the above critique of the ship analogy, in other words, Plato's challenge to the idea of democracy stands.

Granted, then, that sound political decisions concerning means as well as ends require not only reliable knowledge of such things as economics, geography, sociology, and military strategy, but also something like moral competence, the question arises as to how this sort of preparedness can be acquired. Plato's emphatic answer is: by a sound and systematic education. No good government—democratic or otherwise--is possible without an adequate amount of knowledge and understanding. It is for this reason that education is the most central concern of Plato’s Republic.

Fucking philosopher kings. There's your answer. AKA Respect the tag

TheGovernorPR · 2017-11-15T20:31:54+00:00

You know I disagreed at first, but I re-read this post 4 fucking times and it makes crystal clear sense now. I agreed with it so much that I took notes on it.

Follow a path, form an opinion, make the hard decisions, and do what you think is best. Even if people say this route is hard etc, you will follow through with your own advice/opinion because you have the confidence to do so, and if you absolutely need an opinion/advice about something go to someone who wields respect and knows what the fuck they are talking about.

But, this is also the way my mind perceived it, great fucking post, brother.

Casanova-Quinn · 2017-11-15T23:11:04+00:00

This goes double for criticism. It's easy to tell the difference between someone who's got a point that's valuable for helping you improve, and someone who's feeling short-dicked because you have the lectern right now.

This is my favorite quote regarding criticism:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." —Theodore Rosevelt

Usziel · 2017-11-16T00:34:38+00:00

My favorite thing ever is an AskTRP Question masked as a Field Report...

Metalgear222 · 2017-11-16T15:53:44+00:00

Kind of confused on this post, this sub is entirely based on advice from others and wording things in ways that's easier to understand for someone with less experience. Perhaps if you mentioned an example of how a negative connotation was attached to:

Anything I missed? Thoughts and rational advice are appreciated.

But we have an active sub titled "asktrp"?

rubixd · 2017-11-16T18:09:02+00:00

A man who asks for advice from just anyone is saying that some rando's opinion is more valuable than his.

I'd argue that while he is "asking for advice from anyone" -- it's not like he posted this on askreddit. He is asking for advice on TRP, on this sub.

berlengas · 2017-11-16T13:07:43+00:00

dude just becouse he seeks an advice doesn't mean the he should follow it. Wtf? To seek an advice sometimes is related to other perspectives being brought into the table so we can have a broader perspective and understanding of the topic in question, which sometimes doesn't happen becouse a new perspective may have a negative contribution due to the fact that it can be wrong in a specific point of view. I don't know everything, that doesn't mean i should apply everything everyone tells me, if you are doing that perhaps you are the real blue pill here

totallyAlphaguy · 2017-11-16T18:53:23+00:00

You can also ask general advice and only listen to those who make valid points. Just because you ask for general advice doesn't mean you will listen to 100% of what they say.

BreakingRed_ · 2017-11-17T07:50:53+00:00

A man who asks for advice from just anyone is saying that some rando's opinion is more valuable than his.

So, lock asktrp to let only "masters" respond to threads? Unless asktrp is a shit test all of a sudden.

Kurush559 · 2017-11-15T18:30:51+00:00

This was a great reminder. Now I'll ask your advice ;)

What do you suggest one says when people do give stupid/reactive/useless advice?

ThatOneDrunkUncle · 2017-11-15T21:10:58+00:00

The only recent post that isn't a longwinded regurgitation of what's in the sidebar, from perhaps the strongest voice in the community, and the message is completely lost on subscribers. Why are you guys here if you've already read the sidebar?

datshitcray69 · 2017-11-15T23:42:32+00:00

Ive become very successful asking for advice at the 'round table' and 'council' of my peers, friends and colleagues.

I like to hear other peoples opinions then I select my own. Its a way of getting intelligence from other people and deciding my own thoughts.

I think most leaders do this.

ThickDickWarrior89 · 2017-11-15T21:08:17+00:00

It’s so strange to me that Indian guys have the most dense facial hair on the planet. For goodness sakes guys the boys have full beards at age 8. BUT they are some of the softest men (when full grown) next to their Asian counterpart. A lot of pussies are going to whine about racism but we ay trp SHOULD be above that. I’m just making comparisons that everyone already knows about.

Ok I’m out

YT,

Thickdick

VoiceActorForHire · 2017-11-15T19:13:29+00:00

I love how the mods just sticky this because it's from a EC, even though a comment refuting the post has 3x the upvotes (3v10).

This sub is fucking great for Men, but this 'EC-nepotism' should really stop.

nrafield · 2017-11-16T12:16:38+00:00

Would you mind describing what makes you in particular deserve respect and people listening to your advice other than your tag so you can set an example?

TrueFacets · 2017-11-17T07:42:26+00:00

Sorry whisper, that's retarded, no one would ever learn something without teachers or dad's or elders who give advice.

nitpicking the exact definitions is also stupid

strikethrough123 · 2017-11-15T22:15:10+00:00

But I like the peanut gallery..

drogosan · 2017-11-16T11:02:26+00:00

I'm wondering why this has been tagged "Blue Pill Example"? Is the OP blue pill?

Title	Ignore the Peanut Gallery
Author	Whisper
Upvotes	49
Comments	81
Date	November 15, 2017 6:26 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7d62lg/ignore_the_peanut_gallery/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/ignore-the-peanut-gallery.47149 https://theredarchive.com/post/47149

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