A mini FR for those who learn better from anecdotes than theory.
I have a new plate, its been a couple months. She more than shit tested me last month. It was full on tantrum and disrespect.
We were texting a bit and made plans for the following week to meet for drinks and hotel sex. She asked me something unrelated to the firmed up plans and I never responded as I must have passed out early. Next day was busy so again I just never responded. Late that night I got a barrage of irrational emotion:
Huff and Puff...I guess you are too busy to answer me. I'm really not sure why you think you are such hot shit. There are lots of guys with muscles in 'our neighborhood'. And your wife knows you are cheating on her...she just doesn't care...
Goodbye Plate
Radio silence for a few days until I ran into her at the local playground where she approached me and asked how my day was (I rolled eyes) and we chatted amicably for a few moments before she turned to leave and whispered are we still on this Wed?
After I plowed her Wed, she shared that she fell in love when she saw me shake my head as she approached. Thinking back it wasn't quite amused mastery, more like I've seen this act before and it doesn't phase me
Women want men who they think can't be hurt. Show a woman she cant cause you distress and her panties moisten.
She needs a rudder, if she controls the rudder her needs aren't being met.
What a fucking analogy. Well written. Thank you.
“Show a woman she cant cause you distress and her panties moisten”
Everything you need to know in one sentence.
TRP in one sentence. Upvoted and saved.
Remember she's just a woman in the jungle, be the gorilla
I logged in just to comment precisely this.
And there's only one way for a woman to cause you distress with words: If you value what she has to say.
And could someone tell me how to do it
Love yourself. Be in a relationship with yourself first. Take care of yourself to the point your confidence is unshakable by others. Once you start to love yourself and live life how you want to regardless of others opinions, everything, including pussy will seem to fall into place for you.. goodluck bro
Narcissist are loved by ALL
Perfectly put. Then it's up to you decide if the sex is worth the shit tests. At this point, she will try and prove her worth to you and now you've won the game.
I fucking snickered harder than I should have when you signed it "Plate".
nothing funnier than the goddamn truth
Holy shit dude. Thanks for sharing. My man.
I am currently in a relationship. I understand the whole point of holding frame and whatnot and letting things bounce off of you, as I do for the most part. Last weekend though, my gf called me an idiot in an extremely bitchy, non-joking fashion, and I basically told her that if she ever does that again, our relationship will be over. How does that boundary of respect line up with the idea of holding frame?
Don't do this, unless you have the balls to follow through.
Also, there is no need to set a verbal ultimatum. She knows exactly what she did. Your GF needs a timeout (next) from all of your valuable resources.
You are also asking a question about "monogamy frame". She knows the relationship won't be over.
Unless you have the balls to follow through.
This. Nothing more to add tbh.
(In a nonchalantly way) "Don't ever call me an idiot"
No need to add the end of relationship ultimatum.
I agree. if you are not willing to leave don't put out an ultimatum.
Sounds like you entered her frame (correct me if I am wrong guys. I am still learning) Giving an ultimatum is showing that you don't have any other resources to handle the situation
Not exactly it is a tiny bit context dependent. In the sense there are 'noobie' girls who haven't been thru their slut phase or just on their 1st or 2nd major relationship then these girls r MOSTLY acting out of pure instinct. Basically they sense weakness so they throw the test out the ultimatum u throw back shows ur willin to walk away. However if ur girl has been round the block is old enuf or has shown red flags then u should already be walking or demotion to plate.
The TRUE best strategy is some fuckin dread. Get some "potential" new chicks if u need that abundance mentality boost
Yeah ultimatums are bad because what that essentially means is you've exhausted all other options of dealing with the situation. Ultimatums come from a point of weakness. Do you think Kings make ultimatums? Nope.
That's good, but keep in mind that your opinion of yourself is all that matters. Your girlfriend's doesn't really matter, because it's governed entirely by how she feels (=/= logic) and that shit changes all the fucking time.
Holding frame implies effort. When a child throws a tantrum, you don't hold frame, you know the kid is just acting out. Same shit with your girl when she's behaving like a child. You don't allow things to bounce off of you, they just do on their own. There is no substance to her bullshit, bitches just say shit.
The problem with relationships is you sacrifice your freedom for exclusivity with someone who'll only have your back some of the time. It's a great deal for your girlfriend because that's exactly what she wants, but it's always a bad deal for you. Love is great, but it's very volatile, and when things start to taper out (and they will), you'll find yourself wondering what's in it for you.
I can't speak for you, but the level of commitment I'd require to be exclusive with someone is just more than what most girls can give. On top of being attractive, she's got to be smart, honest, be able to put her own feelings aside for mine when I need her to (and I'd do the same for her) and understand that we're a team. I'm willing to bet this sounds familiar – lots of people say they'd love to have that. It's what I'd expect out of a loyal friend, and what I'd be willing to give back, on top of the sex, etc.
But it's a lot of fucking work for everyone involved and we all know how big the discrepancy between what people say, what they want and what they actually do are. It's worse with girls because they're fueled by feels and everything is a stimulus for more feels. Relationships are filled with such stimuli because when you spend so much time with someone, there's bound to be friction and that's annoying bullshit for you, but it's great for the girl, because she thrives on drama. Even with the smart/intellectual types, more than half the shit they talk about is how things that happened made them feel and making themselves look better than they are. "Can you believe what Erica wore to the party?" or "Oh my god, that girl did not just call me that, what a bitch. You know, being nice to each other in the bathroom is just like girl-code, drunk girls are just nice to each to other, and bla bla bla". Another big one is taking something that made them feel bad, often because of their inadequacy, and spinning the story into making it the other person's fault. Instead of adapting to the world around them, they'll go full hamster on that wheel.
Anyway, when she says she wants an equal relationship, she is writing you an empty cheque that will inevitably bounce, the only question is when, because eventually her account will deplete. That is, her feelings for you will change and she'll justify everything through whatever convoluted means necessary, and ideally do so while still being able to convince herself she's a good person and it was your fault anyway.
Now, I don't know what kind of relationship you have and what the context to her meanness (lol) was, but if she "called you an idiot in an extremely bitchy, non-joking fashion", it sounds like things are already pretty bad.
Ultimately, it's a game that's been rigged against you since before you even knew you'd start playing. With game and RP theory, you're better equipped to handle things, but that's like being a very good driver when you're on a road that ends in a ditch in a car that's gonna blow up any minute. Sounds grim, but when things fall apart, they'll take everything and everyone they can down with them (group identity) and make it look like it was your fault all along. But that's nothing to be sad about, you could just get out of the car.
Look at all the divorced guys who come in here and look at how things turned out for them. Do you think their exes were always batshit insane? Probably not, but given the right circumstances, the worse in them will come out. Especially if they're people who try very hard to ignore the darker aspects of their personality, which is most girls. Those types are dangerous, because they'll end up doing horrible shit with zero control over it which is bloody scary. Anything goes as long as they can get away with it and convince themselves they're still sweet little angels after the fact. Similar idea with sluts who're convinced they're not sluts.
Well, I went on a bit of a tangent there, and if you think this doesn't apply to you, forget it. I extrapolated a lot and saw this as an opportunity to talk about relationships in general. I bet there's other guys who've been in the same situation, I know I have.
Getting in a relationship and testing your boundaries can be a great experience. It'll make you incredibly vulnerable and open you up to very real possibility of getting hurt...but on the flip side, you'll KNOW and you'll come out stronger. When you've got your heart ripped out, shat on and replaced, it's hard to bite your nails off when some chick is acting out. Suddenly you've put the mastery in amusement and all the shit they pull is just fucking funny. You don't hold frame, it's part of who you are. Like Superman with bullets ricocheting off his chest.
Also, you will find girls who sync better with you and who you'll be able to have deeper, more intimate relationships with for longer stretches of time. That's definitely possible, and there's always exceptions to my broad generalisations (before anyone cries NAWALT). Personally, I prefer stretches of alone time and plate spinning. Maybe even serial monogamy could work, but I haven't felt like trying that.
I agree about women generally not exploring their shadow and when confronted with it they run for cover.
Boundaries are important and must be defended. Yet women love playful men who get it and aren't moved by their drama and antics.
I wrote this post because it was funny (it's dead true and I worried I'd be doxed by the plate) and also hoping some jackass (not you who politely asked a question) would call me a pussy worshipper for not NEXTing immediately.
There is a time and place for different reactions even with same woman. It's subtle and men learn by doing, not from manuals
wait, you actually called her a plate in the text? just to be clear
You drew a line in the sand and dared her to cross it. This is why women live for. He drama, she will of course cross it. And your reaction will determine how she sees you. They can't help it, the shit testing is their biological drive
Dread is done non-verbally. If you verbalize it’s like ASKING to respect you. (Beta move) You punish her by removing attentions and making her hamster spin
I've given plenty. You're frames not weak, she's not meeting your expectations.
Like everyone else is saying, if she does it again break up with her. I had a GF fight me everytime she drank and I gave her ample warning. She acted like a bitch one day and had enough, she cried and cried but I held firm
God, if only my dad had known this and taught it to me.
my 14 year old knows. he plays tons of sports and knows bitches ain't shit yet he loves their adorable asses. the kid will slay
Good for you man. Maybe we can turn this bitch around yet.
Maybe. Doesnt matter really. Either way wont break my stride.
Investing in a single woman does not work and my repeated mistakes in this regard led me here years ago.
Now, I literally drown in pussy. Work is so good that my boss asks me before he makes decisions because he is afraid of my response and I'm in same jeans as I was 20 years ago.
Yet the betas in my life (bless their hearts) feel bad I haven't put a woman at my emotional center so I must be empty inside.
TRP works. It crystallized that a man is born with no value, he must create it and even then, most people (save for a few solid men) are looking to extract your value by any means necessary.
My advice....if they want what you have.....resources, good feels, wisdom....make an pay for it
Ahh one of my favorite ways to give someone a “polite” verbal whipping. I’ve also been told by some of the betas where I work that I’m a “hollow, cold hearted bastard” and that knowing “the love of a woman” would change me. (Ikr, so cute) Usually when they would broach the subject I would respond that I view life through the lens of an economist. Is the ROI worth the hassle and headaches that “relationships” bring; the answer 99% of the time is a big fat no. Those same betas now avoid me because they probably think I’m some unhinged psychopath. Yet it’s the same cold hearted, unsympathetic, empty, callous, unemotional, stoic, and narcissistic personality that gets me the feminine attention they they either consciously or subconsciously crave so desperately but don’t get.
Well unless the”girls” want someone to buy drinks for them at a company happy hour, then they will happily fork over their credit card for 15 mins of attention and maybe a single IOI; truly pathetic and disgusting to see.
Usually when they would broach the subject I would respond that I view life through the lens of an economist....
Don't explain yourself. Just agree that you haven't found the right woman yet and are so so lonely
Hahahaha. That bit is funny.
I'm guessing you do this sarcastically?
Living in past and wasting your time over shit you can’t change is extremely blue pill. Sure it’s different than ‘oneitis’ but at the same time your mind is still occupied by something other than you.
Don’t blame others for your present situation. If your dad had told you, you would have missed out on the other useful info from this sub.
I don't live in it, I learn from it. So that I can teach my son.
That’s the way to do it bro.
I don't think that the messages should be considered irrational - it was a calculated move. You're obviously not investing enough emotion into the "relationship", and she hates it. Subtle didn't work, so she ended up going the drama route, which in turn did not work either, but since - I'm assuming here, you're higher SMV she's not willing to give up on you just yet.
Her shit only works on simps, which is why it failed. If she was halfway decent at locking down, she would have done it in reverse (make it more about you, and less about her).
"You're obviously not investing enough emotion into the "relationship", and she hates it."
yes but she also loves it
THIS GUY GETS IT !
Or at least, she won't lose attraction because she'll never get the carrot.
Doesn't mean she enjoys the reality that the men she's actually attracted to won't devote their livelihoods to her like the betas do.
Attraction is to alpha behavior
Jesus Christ, why are men worried about what women "get" from a relationship? Plates don't merit an "enjoyment" analysis. If a plate doesn't like the circumstances, she stops showing up to fuck.
Relationships are female abstractions. Without potential pussy on the end of commitment, men wouldn't give a single fuck.
This isn't cause and effect. Her end goal is not your goal. Never has been.
Yeah, don't invest in non-productive depreciating assets. Basic economics at work here.
Exactly, double standards from OP cheating on his wife, if the roles were reversed etc.
“Women want a men who think they can’t be hurt. Show a woman she can’t cause you distress and her panties moisten.”
This is gold. But help me understand, how do comfort tests factor in with this?
think like a daddy to a 5 yr old. She cant hurt him by calling him names but he is still there to bandage her boo boos an hour later
Thank you. I think I’m asking more about the first half. The second half I get as frame control.
As a daddy I gladly poke and play with my daughter(physically and verbally) and when she acts hurt, but I KNOW I was reasonably gentle I let it bounce off me easily. I say something like, “stop, that didn’t hurt” and she laughs.
I get the bandages concept because the world hurt her badly not me.
I’m just trying to grasp the extent this goes to. If I truly accidentally hurt my daughter(lift her up and bang her head on something) I get really apologetic and comfort oriented quickly. This seems healthy.
I get it intuitively. I’m just trying to grasp the logic or a story that makes sense.
Not sure if you’ve misunderstood the quote. Women want a man who can’t be hurt by her.
Actually I think I get it.
It’s about pushing the limits.
Prior to this moment, I’ve always thought of shit/comfort tests being something that I have to be passively/reactive about. They’re going to come at me and I need to know how to respond. But most success comes from being active/proactive.
So what’s happening is an alpha should be actively seeking getting these shit/comfort tests from a woman. That’s what game is about. That’s why women are naturals. They seek to get that emotional rise out of us. From 48 laws, stir up waters to catch fish.
Good game is pushing the limits. Being dominant continually extracting shit tests from her until you run into a comfort test. Then back off.
Same with escalation. Keep escalating til you get resistance. Then back off and restart escalation to get farther each time.
In sex rail on her, but if she starts bleeding or uses the safe word, chill out.
A good captain goes for what he wants but respects boundaries.
These all tie into the same concept. Somehow it relates to the dichotomy of the female mindset. She wants to control but is happiest when being dominated.
The happiest place for her is to be dominated, utilized, challenged, pushed to her limits but not beyond what she is capable of handling.
That’s not what was written. However, if that’s what was intended I get it.
However, maybe it’s a revolutionary mistake. (Like most great inventions) But I read it differently and it seemed to be valuable insight.
I read: Women want men who think that women are durable(not strong) enough to not be hurt by men.
Now, there’s obvious flaws to this. But there are clear indicators that this has some relevant truth
Sex for example. Woman want to be railed, disrespected, even beaten/fantasy raped. It’s blue pill betas that try to give a woman comfortable pleasing sex. Huge turn off.
It seems that OP did something along these lines when he ignored/rolled his eyes at her shit tests. “I don’t care if you got emotional over my ignoring your text. It’s stupid.”
It’s like shit tests are begging to be responded to by hurting/being dominant toward them.
Seems like there’s something here. I just can’t put my finger on it.
Comfort tests aren't really tests in my opinion. They are cries for support.
If you find the time, expansion on this would be helpful.
So, this may be a dumb question, but a shit test is a woman looking to see how much shit she can get away with?
Yup, if you fail it will lead her to coming up with ways to disrespect you to eventually cave in which makes them see you as a “lesser” individual.
You gotta stay on your toes so when the first shit test comes around, you shut it down. But they’ll continue the shit tests until they can ultimately win. So either stay on your toes or drop them first.
I'd phrase it as her way to see if you are "worthy of her." (Also read that as sense of entitlement)
Frame is everything
The main reason that a man cheating on a woman is not as bad as a woman cheating on a man is preselection. Even though it will probably upset your girl if she finds out you’re cheating on her, a part of her will be turned on by the fact that there are other attractive women who want to fuck you, and she will be more likely to stay with you and fuck you better to try to gain a monopoly on your genitals and/or resources than an alpha male would with a woman.
A man who approves of attractive men fucking his girl is a cuck, therefore a beta, therefore repulsive to women. Any alpha, on the other hand, would be completely repulsed by his woman fucking another man and would simply replace her ASAP.
I'm a redpill woman but this shit is so fucked up. He's giving a slut power over his wife. A slut feels superior to his wife because this guys fucks her. Forget the cheating itself, but why the hell would you get into a situation where a whore could feel smug and superior to a married woman??
This proves you're better off being a slut and winning then being a wife and getting cheated on.
What's the point in being a good redpill woman? What is the fucking prize? Being cheated on??? And dont say it's money. I could be the biggest whore and secure a betabux if money was all I cared about.
This doesn’t prove anything. This is one example of a single man’s sexual exploits. It doesn’t invalidate the hundreds of thousands of men who after going through their wild oats years will want to settle down and start a family. At that point a redpill woman will get the prize she’s waited for: a man ready to be a family alpha, to love and lead for the rest of his life.
Can a man be well versed in TRP knowledge yet shun concept of family alpha? Some even think that's a purple pill in drag
TFA the person, and the concept are both Purple Pilled. I like Hunter, but he's wrong.
There, I said it. Also (clutch those pearls ladies) there are no RPW's, only women who accept that some men are RP aware.
For my ultimate sexual strategy to be successful, a woman must ultimately cede to me, not cater to me.
Wearing a-line dresses and baking cakes, while chasing after my spawn makes you a basic wife. This is not RP, nor any accomplishment of any kind.
Even Rollo admitted as much this past Saturday. Women who recognize the merits of RP aware men are simply overt fans of the behaviors of self-sufficiency and attraction via social proof.
Rule Zero is designed to be zero sum in favor of the man. RP women aren't the prize. They shouldn't be fooled into believing they are. They add value to an already evolved man.
He isn't wrong. He actively chooses to be who he is, bless his heart. I want something quite different and here is my roadmap and toolkit.
"Wrong" was a little harsh, I admit, but what he says often gets (intentionally) misinterpreted into "do it for your family."
Plus his de facto shunning of his process (TTB and TFA deleted from Reddit) gives the appearance of a dude appearing out of the wilderness ready-made, when those in the know saw a pussy with Oneitis struggle with the memory of his current wife cheating while they were courting.
what is your ultimate sexual strategy?
by "cede to me" do you mean "submit" to your will?
A male sexual strategy invariably has "the man" getting the sex that he wants as a ultimate expression of that strategy.
If the woman happens to wholeheartedly accept every bit of the experience, that is a happy accident. If he changes his preferences to meet her needs / demands, his sex life is in her frame, and Rule Zero is set aside to adhere to her sexual strategy.
That's why "she has to lose" for you to win. In this case, she might enjoy "losing" but it's ceding control nonetheless.
I’m not advocating to shun it, I’m saying embrace the concept of the family alpha once you’ve gone through your wild 20s.
Lol. What magic year exists when you have to finally become the plow horse?
I mirror RZD's opinion here. Granted, I don't see the value in putting my wife on my fucking podcast either, this ain't the boyscouts.
You don’t know that his wife is a red pill woman. Being a red pill woman makes you the kind of woman that an alpha will be most likely to commit to and least likely to cheat on. And the slut doesn’t have power to divorce rape him like OP’s wife might if she finds out. This kind of situation is why women should be weary of marriage too, despite the fact that divorce courts heavily favor women.
I don't care what you think. I dont need your permission nor your approval to do whatever I want
I didnt say you need my permission or approval. I just asked WHY.
What do you think this even means?
Go over to redpillwomen and find out
Lol. Figures. You don't even know what you're on about.
Kind of like the Loch Ness Monster that knits.
So true. Look how many woman in Hollywood stick with their cheating spouses after a public humiliation. Then look at the women who bolt after they just become unattractive. Men have become the trophies to women.
Wait, are you cheating on your wife? No judgment, sexual selection is amoral and all that, just curious.
Reading comprehension isn’t your strong point
People are fucking dumb for upvoting that question and downvoting your reply.. of course he is
Eh, bloopies gonna bloopie.
Morality aside, if it weren't for cads relaying this shit, people might have an excuse for thinking wahmen are wonderful.
It's crazy the types of shit tests they'll throw you way, but you have to be zen and composed. Nice field report, I went through something similar and only by holding frame was I able to get the lay: https://alphajedi.com/2017/08/17/the-lesbian/
Great post OP. What I liked the most was how you handled her after her emotional tirade. I'm always a proponent of just letting sleeping dogs lie. I'll never let myself get stressed over what a woman says and when I see you next I'll smile and wave and act like nothing ever happened. Once they understand that you realize that their little episode was just that, an episode, then they'll move on too.
My mom told me once a long time ago after she spanked me that she doesn't hold grudges (generally). In her words she "gets mad and then gets over it." My emotional disposition is very similar. I feel what I feel and then I let it go. Only when I try to stuff it down do I get thrown off of my equilibrium.
Also, what's with people judging OP for cheating? The woman said that his wife didn't care, and even if she did, it's his life. I couldn't care less if someone is a cheater or not personally.
But I guess most people here don't understand what "amoral" means. Learn to leave all of that at the door. When people cling to their morals in this kind of forum it gets messy because their emotions are too intertwined with them and you can't have a productive discussion while you're emotional.
"I feel what I feel and then I let it go"
+1
The Pathway to Surrender
mods pls award point
Done.
"Not putting up with my shit" is a powerful aphrodisiac
Perhaps the most important part of the FR. Definitely a part of the story that needs to be understood.
If you are not willing to walk away from a plate, you are not doing it right.
Ignoring & holding frame usually leads to her putting more chips on the table. It's a lot easier when you realize how simple and attention-seeking some girls are that it genuinely annoys you.
Curious, how were you shaking your head? Was it a "you're not fooling me", or a "look how much of a pathetic sexual deviant you are", or did you throw in a smirk?
Lol, I don't know to be sure, it wasn't game, it was actually real reaction.
Probably a slight eyerolll. Definiltey like a oh Christ I dont need this shit
OP, since your plate said that your wife knows you're cheating on her (I assume bluff to get you all worried) wouldn't she tell your wife and then divorce rape ensues? This is theoretically that your plate actually didn't want you again. Since you're fucking and she loves it it's all good but aren't you in a way taking a risk here?
She was just trying to ruffle my feathers. If my wife thought I was cheating she would actively hamster that thought away
Holding frame sure , but that has noting to do with it.
Listen girls with daddy issues - there many - will stuck when ignored.
Try pull the same on any semi self respect woman and lets see how hard she will next you. Maybe its the American daddy issue female but in my country you rarely see this.
never heard the old TRP only works on insecure sluts before......!
Expert level amused mastery. Well done.
Last line is gold. Bravo man.
Are you really cheating on you're wife? Just asking
Yea.. hate to be a buzzkill, but if cheating on men is part of what makes women so hated, why is it ok for men to cheat on women?
Part of the whole "being better than women" thing is to, you know, actually BE better than the shit they pull on us.
No moralizing
You're absolutely precious.
Your supposition assumes that men and women are the same.
What is "being better than women" any way?
Oh I dunno, not a spineless prick with no ethics?
My takeaway is that the red pill has nothing to do with fidelity.
Why do you think it does?
Fidelity is fine, and I wouldn't be in a long term relationship without it. But what, specifically, does it have to do with theredpill?
Nothing, which is why he is banned now.
I didn't think so, but I thought some pondering the question might be good for anyone reading.
Bravo dude, im with you all the way. Cheating is for pussies.
What is a Plate? Someone explain.
A woman you see for casual sex. Not a girlfriend. A plate can become a girlfriend. And a girlfriend can be demoted to plate. “Spinning plates” means you have multiple women you hang out with and see for sex.
*Sigh* Please read the side bar before commenting on anything else. You will thank me later.
This person had a genuine question, whats wrong with that? Maybe it was addressed in some previous post, but it's much more constructive to discuss here. Do you honestly expect people to reference the sidebar before making any post?
yes
Yes, it's literally a known rule around here to not ask questions UNTIL you've read literally everything in the sidebar. We didn't construct the side bar for no reason.
Yes.
Especially when you have to moderate 1000 of these sames questions a day.
I'm sorry, I'm new here. Just wanna ask what is 'holding frame' ? You can also give me a link of the answer
Read the sidebar
How about I wipe your ass next time you need to take a shit too