Please share your opinion

dday_throwaway3 · 2020-07-20T15:27:10+00:00

If Will Smith and Dr. Dre can't prevent hypergamy, normal men like us have no chance.

"A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband, while a man never worries about the future until he gets a wife."

SpacemanLost · 2020-07-20T17:11:53+00:00

Have we looked closely at the messages from society that girls are growing up with today (and the messages today's women have been given)? It's not so much overtly said, but rather woven into so many things.

From the "you can have it all" to "you deserve xyz just because you are are female]" to the "you will get a pass on your behavior and consequences [because you are female]" to "The mother is always right and deserving when it comes to [anything related to children]", we've been getting a generation that overall expects all of this and has never stopped to think about what it means to or how it looks to men. much less asking "is it fair to everyone?" (I mean why should they.. it would challenge their advantageous positions).

Interestingly, thanks to the internet and it's nature, these issues are being discussed and disseminated to a widespread degree never before seen (or practical). I see marriage and committed relationship participation rates among men continuing to drop in the years ahead.

jeffrrw · 2020-07-20T19:16:23+00:00

Thoughts?

I do not agree with the quote, especially in regards to the pejorative use of "they" as an acrimonious attack on "all women".

My first question would be how did you enable these ideals and behavior. Lets see... You didn't fight the housing idea and moved into a house you cannot afford. You didn't push back on the new car when you could have bought a quality used car. You don't think to practice safe sex and wrap your tool and plan out your kids. And because of this you now have to grind it out and make more and more money. She most likely takes over paying the bills and stays at home because you cannot afford all of the aforementioned on top of child care and then she becomes bored as fuck with only communicating with children all day.
Now since you are so tired from work and trying to live way beyond your means, you come home exhausted and combative from your hour commute into the city. Well she now wants your attention and help and a moment to commune with herself and her peers since shes been surrounded by children all day. You fight back. You complain. And now, neither of you are really getting what you want... The kids have two checked out parents and the TV, internet, school, etc. end up raising them to be mindless little consumers who live in the onDemand culture.
Since you both have lost touch with yourselves and each other, never taking a moment to step back and appreciate one another or what you are doing, one of you seeks outside validation. The kids are in kindergarten and gone most of the day. Mommy is now free to go to the gym, get a new job, go back to school while you are still grinding to pay for all of the big ticket shit at 6% interest plus the 10K on the credit card at 25% interest. You wife or you yourself since you've been grinding at work, start to get validation and recognition from peers, colleagues, strangers etc. and this sparks something that has been dormant for the past 4 years. "I am worthwhile individual." So you start to get ideas... Start to pursue new things. A new piece of ass. 100K instagram followers. A new career in a different state etc. and you do all of this in secret as you just don't know how to communicate with your roommate.
More and more validation and communication pours in from these other sources and since you don't stop the flow and pause and reflect on it, you lean into it. She leans into that new dick while you lean into that senior role. She still isn't working and now that you both are getting something outside of the marriage, she files first since she has more time on her hands... She takes you to the cleaners as she hasnt been working. She takes the house as you have unlimited earning potential. She takes the kids since she has been engaged with them the whole time. And you just dont have the energy to fight this. Your role over, get racked over the coals by her hungry lawyers and now you are another statistic. Another divorced family. Another man who doesn't get to see his kids because you didn't stop the bleed early on. You didn't check yourself because you've had it drilled into your head from a young age that you are to provide and that is where your "value" comes from.

Well wake the fuck up and realize early on that your feelings, emotions, thoughts, desires are valuable too! You are one half of the whole. Quit sacrificing yourself and learn to put up some boundaries and express your needs and get your feelings out. Fellas, if you cannot talk to your SO about your feelings... You are with the wrong partner. If she gets weird when you open up after being together for awhile...bye felicia. She should be just as invested into you and your goals and you are into hers. If the big things don't align... Wrap it up and have fun but do not engage otherwise. Spend time picking your partner. Be the king that you are. Find that self love and you'll find much better partners. Men really need to learn to love ourselves in ways that are constructive to us and not what "society" demands of us.

Nonamesfound · 2020-07-20T15:55:08+00:00

They really do.

But the worse part is they know they can do whatever they want.... lie,cheat,steal,etc.

Because if they get caught and you obviously want to divorce them.... they know that the odds are greatly in their favor and they can completely destroy your life and take you children away from you

donkiluminate · 2020-07-20T15:26:01+00:00

I think it depends on the woman. There are many women(and men) out there who move the goal post on you just as you’re about to cross the line. Those people will never be happy and will make it hard for you to be happy too. The key is to find a someone who can find happiness regardless of their situation. If you find someone like that let me know.

warrior_up · 2020-07-20T16:13:21+00:00

And they have no fucks to give about smearing your name character along the way, manipulating and taking the kids leaving you in an apartment, unable to afford anything after caring for them and holding their hands through life for years on end

MasterProposal · 2020-07-20T19:24:24+00:00

That's what happened to me more or less. I will give her credit for being frugal and not wanting a new car every few years but she took frugality to the extreme and it kept both of us from being able to live. We had an agreement when we bought our home before we had children. I said I couldn't support our family by myself, I knew it would be stressful, I knew what I could handle and I knew I would need help. A few years into children though she decided she wanted to quit but not to be a SAHM but to start something new. I supported that, she flaked on it after about a year of no income from it and quit work altogether leaving me to support us by myself. It stressed me out, I handled things badly but she would always say not matter how much I needed her to go back to work 'I know you can do it.' I would say I can't, she would say 'she believed in me.' It sounds so nice but the reality is it is manipulative and invalidating. In the end because for a few years I really did struggle with stress, lay offs, increasing my income so we could keep our home. Only now do I see how much the stress effected everything from my friendships, my interactions with my children and my ability to perform sexually and how she STILL RESENTS me for how I handled the stress and in the same breath she will STILL SAY she knows I can do it. FUCK OFF. I couldn't, I didn't and I would appreciate it if you would stop fucking telling me what you think. I was honest in the beginning and she didn't listen to me and now SHE RESENTS ME (and I her of course).

I gave her the nice house in the city. Time to be the PTA mom and I was still home coaching my kids sports, leading their scouting, home to cook dinner most nights (in some cases even if I had to catch a flight out for the day!) but in the end she still cheated on me with an hold high school friend. When I was out taking our children camping she would take trips to see friends - it was a lie. She was spending the money I struggled so hard to make to go fuck some other guy.

Now the law is on her side and she can take half of everything if she really wants it. We will see how it actually ends up. She wants more than I can afford to give her in my mind and keep the house (which she says she wants me to be able to do) but I should have money for savings and living too right? She's had to get a job and see how hard it was for me but still can't empathize for how hard she made things for me by not listening. She still can't see her part, she closes her eyes tight. Now she's dragging her feet on the divorce process...

They say hard cases make bad law and that's what we high earners face in situations like this. They can have as many affairs as they want while we simps just go along not knowing what's happening because we're too busy trying to be the best partner we can be. I loved my wife absolutely. It was a decision to stop and cut those feelings from my heart and it has cost me. I see things much more clearly now though looking back. We have been living apart for most of this year and I never want to be with her again. She was a terrible partner, a terrible lover and a terrible friend. She is untrustworthy and I wish I would have had the knowledge earlier in life to understand what I was experiencing and I wish that back in 2012-2013 when I was really seriously considering leaving because she stopped working that I had executed on that instead of chickening out.

I'm just glad I'm still able to connect with someone. I've found that understanding the narcissism I was experiencing has made it so I understand it wasn't me. I was dealing with someone who was manipulating me. I won't fall for it again and I can still have hope that I might one day find someone I can trust. I don't know about getting married again (at least not without a prenup) but at almost 50 I'm not sure I need to get married again.

GuntherVonHairyballs · 2020-07-20T15:59:33+00:00

All women are like that.

2020-07-20T21:41:12+00:00

That's a stereotype. Not my experience.

eyeyamyy · 2020-07-22T03:04:52+00:00

No. Sounds like you and your coworker (like I) married a very ambitious and unappreciative person. Still, this is a gross oversimplification. As pointed out elsewhere, you (we) have a part in all this. They do to, but playing the victim card is weak. At the very least - we married these people and saw clues before hand and ignored them or didn't wait long enough to see them.

JohnnyMnemo · 2020-07-20T16:14:46+00:00

That's pretty much how it went, yep.

I think they just straight up get bored.

Particular_Band · 2020-07-20T18:49:13+00:00

Don't let anger and bitterness affect your opinion of other women.

I know divorced women who would say:

"all men want is a pretty face and once you get old or give them kids they'll drip you for a younger woman."

MyNewNormal808 · 2020-07-21T01:38:31+00:00

I can only speak on my STBXW. She was an equal partner in creating the good life we had. I doubt it was "suddenly (she) hate the life". In hindsight, I realize that both of us let the marriage deteriorate (e.g. putting work and kids before us, not working at the marriage, not communicating about our problems, ignoring each other's feelings, etc.) In the end, she looked at what we had and decided that she wasn't wiling to stay with the ghost of a marriage we had.

I avoid making sweeping generalizations because it simplifies too much which usually makes it wrong. Life is complex and messy. I would counsel you to avoid demonizing women. Just because one woman didn't work out doesn't mean your ideal partner isn't just waiting to come into your life. Need to give her a chance. Can't do it if you're full of hate.

playerknowmore · 2020-07-20T16:35:47+00:00

I truly think maturity, and role models through their parents has a bigger impact on a a womans relationship with her husband. Let's face it only 46% of children grow up with married parents. 26% have single parents, and 15% live with remarried divorced parents.

Seeing that apple's tend not to fall far from the tree, you basically have a little better that a 50% chance of a successful marriage. I know it can work because I am in one. Both of us came from death do us part house holds. My mother in law is a dynamic woman the type most men would like to marry. I remember before I married my wife; saying if in my sixties I have a woman that looks like her, and was that dedicated to marriage I would be lucky.

My wife and I survived a long distance relationship. She sold her three bedroom six years old home in Las Vegas to move across country to my three family house in Newark New Jersey. She lived middle class her whole life and moved to the ghetto for love. Now she has he big house in a great middle class community, but we built it together. We are raising three honors students. The American dream is possible, but choosing your mate is the most decision you'll make.

Eighteen years says it's possible. Will be a there bumps along the way; hell yes! But before you marry anyone a consequences conversation should be had. My wife and I had the infidelity consequences conversation due to my body count, and basically I told her if I can remain faithful it is expected.

Hard conversations like that sets the tone for working through future problems in the relationship. Now I grew up in a patriarchal family, but my wife mother was the earner and dominant voice. The difference in our salary on average I made about ten grand more. So basically we go at as equal partners. So to death do us part is still possible in America.

It totally requires hard conversations before you enter it. If you notice most companies use a lot of gray areas in standard and policy; it gives management flexibility in discipline and cooperate atmosphere. Well that doesn't work in marriage; give a spouse of low character gray areas, and they will only focus their. Marriage has to be a safe space were you can expess yourself; at the same time the everyone in the home is allotted consideration.

CerebralAssazin · 2020-07-21T14:16:27+00:00

Describes my ex to a T, except she didn’t get bored with it, she was quite content. I on the other hand got tired of it, which is why she’s an ex now.

But I don’t believe all women are like this. My current g/f works hard and gets hers on her own.

SpearCatcher1 · 2020-07-22T01:23:51+00:00

Well Materialism is the actual religion of the majority men and women--even some who go to church. Add to that the societal messages of getting what they "deserve" and trusting their feelings, and you've created a set of expectations that is not going to work in reality for any human. The patron saint of feminism, Betty Friedan, flat out advised, "if you aren't totally happy, divorce your husband and see if that doesn't work."

All of that is contrary to the truth about relationships: both people have to contribute and accept. Its also untrue about human happiness: its great to escape poverty and need, but stuff will not give you ultimate satisfaction.

InsidiousToilet · 2020-07-20T17:46:32+00:00

Nope, that's just toxic bullshit, tainting your view, hers, and everyone else's who had a bad split. There are a ton of women out there who don't want you to work your ass off to give it to them, but want to get it for themselves.

Title	Please share your opinion
Author	bigtony199077
Upvotes	38
Comments	38
Date	July 20, 2020 3:04 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/humtpd/please_share_your_opinion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/please-share-your-opinion.818044 https://theredarchive.com/post/818044

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