Marriage Dynamics-- can they be broken?

circescircus · 2020-02-06T14:26:15+00:00

My grandma used to sit on my grandpa's lap when they they gave each other their medications.

Those memories stayed with me as a kid, and made me believe that goodness and love exists, that we are something more than animals.

Mediocrity is the norm, but it doesn't rule everyone. Mediocrity only rules you and your life if you allow it to. Most people allow it to, because "normal" feels validating. People end up bitter because of this, yes.

2020-02-06T14:48:43+00:00

Since last year, all I've seen is divorce in my straight friendship group. Nearly all the women were cheated on after the arrival of the first or second child.

The lesbian married couples I know are going very strong with the exception of one where they were highschool sweethearts and sadly one of them fell for another woman after 7 years being together.

closetskeleton_girl · 2020-02-06T19:37:12+00:00

There have been a number of studies looking at this, and as a group, married women are the least happy demographic while married men were the most happy. It's obvious why- because the man has someone managing his whole life for him, and the wife resents that he never reciprocates or pulls his load of the work.

I think I've met maybe one happily married couple. My boss and his wife have been together 20+ years and seem genuinely happy still. He is also one of the few HVM I've met. Nice guy, respectful, good provider and dedicated father. He's also just a sensitive guy, he'll get tears in his eyes talking about his kids and stuff.

It completely depends on the people, I think. If you meet a genuinely HVM and also you yourself be a HVW, then both parties strive to contribute to the relationship and keep things going over the years. That seems to be the key to a lasting good relationship. Unfortunately it seems to be the exception, not the rule. I try not to lose hope.

YesNoMaybe87 · 2020-02-06T13:57:06+00:00

I think there are a lot of unknown factors in these unhappy marriages. For starters, did they marry a man child to begin with

husheveryone · 2020-02-06T16:24:39+00:00

It’s not even a debatable point that women are much happier single than married. Marriage makes men happier. No matter how society’s BS dresses it up, it really is all about securing female labor & caretaking for him.

“Happy wives” are generally either one of 2 things: 1) they’ve been raised to have low expectations and thus, are happy to serve their man, and will not examine how it’s not authentically reciprocal, or 2) the wife still has an information problem: she hasn’t been married long enough to get an idea about how her husband has been devaluing her over time and would leave her if she ever stopped being of use due to illness, and/or once the kids have grown up and he won’t have to pay child support.

Bovvsette · 2020-02-06T18:25:06+00:00

Most long term marriages that I know of are carried by women too. A lot of them are breadwinners and doing housewife chores on top of that. I think a huge portion of happiness in these old school marriages depend on the husbands being appreciative and positive towards their wives. They tend to truly love and enjoy each other's company. However, a lot of the time the man only brings losses and somehow still finds the audacity to complain and abuse their hardworking partner, who is clearly too patient and out of their league to put up with that.

Relationships where women aren't independent are rare, but seem to be the worst, actually. Because it brings out the worst of LVMs if they are allowed to have full control over your life, even those who played nice before. Always be as independent as you can, ladies, you never know.

Of course, the most content award goes to the equal couples, who put in the same amount of work and genuinely feel like a team sharing responsibilities to achieve goals, there is no underdog there, just respect for one another. However, in some messed up cases they can be so perfect and idyllic, that more impulsive partners (to put it nicely) may find it too boring and after long years leave it for a low value mistress (no joke, this really happened).

So while I'm not very optimistic about marriage either, there is a small chance it will actually work. Just be independent, happy with yourself and your company, don't get too attached and reliant, just make each other grow, improve and enjoy the time together. And if it isn't enjoyable and beneficial to you at all, then LEAVE.

Crazykitten26 · 2020-02-06T14:50:04+00:00

I think it depends on who you marry. If you marry a hvm than a lot of these issues don't matter. I've been married for 9 years every day my husband gets up packs my lunch and walks me to my car ( I leave for work first). He does more than his fair share of cleaning and cooking and genuinely cares about making me happy. I've never had to "nag" or "mother" him.

The one piece of advice I give everyone though never merge finances! We split most of our bill's and have a few individual ones like student loans we both are equally responsible financially but if one or the other needs a little help we are both there for eachother! That's how its supposed to be a partnership! Where each person is loved and valued equally. Some women put men on this pedestal and try to cater to his every need even at thier own expense. That's how you get trapped in a shitty marriage. If you cater to a man's needs/wants too early it becomes habit and its easy for men to take thier wife for granted. Also the wives tend to just put up with this behavior instead of voicing thier concerns.

Maisiebr · 2020-02-06T14:12:30+00:00

There are some lovely old couples out there with the men being absolute gentlemen. I think it has to do with them being considerate, giving, respectful HVM to begin with.

La_Fant0ma · 2020-02-06T18:11:45+00:00

I think that there are definitely happily married couples out there (I know a few from my own family background, and some from among my acquaintances). When two high-value people click, then it would take something very serious to tear them asunder again.

That said, I think that the unhappy married couples in your area may be bad luck of living in an area that doesn't have any good examples of happy marriages, or it could just be that unhappily married people stick out more. Like Tolstoy said, every happy family is alike, but every unhappy family is unique in its misery.

Do I notice that my current family doctor is happily married? He has a wife and two grown-up daughters, he's mentioned them briefly, and he has photos of them in his office, and that's about it. So I barely notice that he's married at all -- he's just a nice person living his life and taking care of sick people.

But my former family doctor -- boy howdy, did I notice that he had some problems! His wife worked as a nurse in his practice and he would criticize, argue with and even yell at her in full view of his patients, in the lobby or even near the waiting room. In his office were only pictures of himself. His hostility towards his family was very pronounced and therefore very noticeable. Of course he's going to stick out because of that.

Bennettist · 2020-02-06T15:33:54+00:00

Marriage doesn't have to be unhappy.

But it is often unhappy because people marry too young and often out of lust and an urge to procreate instead of actual compatibility.

Exceptions to the rule aside, the sweet spot for marriage seems to be after 30.

You can still fuck it up but it will be a lot less likely and if you do, you'll be fine because you (hopefully) spent your 20s getting established.

2020-02-06T14:33:26+00:00

Yes. My theory is: don't ever treat your husband as a romantic lover, treat him as your best friend.

This is what I learned from my parents. They are in their 60s and still laugh and have fun everyday, both like little kids. They both have each other's backs. They are BFFs.

They're also MY best friends, and have been since I can remember. I think this is a better dynamic than a patriarch/matriarch-child relationship.

Shellfishhaha · 2020-02-06T14:39:57+00:00

Its because people marry for stupid reasons, when you ask them why they got married, it’s probably not for actual love, and this is what happens

sadpourtoujours · 2020-02-07T00:13:58+00:00

Don’t clean, don’t cook, don’t nag.

How? From the very beginning don’t cook or clean. Tell him you can’t, you just got a manicure, you’re allergic to cleaning supplies, or you straight up hate cooking, but are happy to buy him takeout. Tell him to hire a maid. Walk into his apartment and say you can’t live in a filthy place like this, then walk out, get in your car, and go get your nails done,

Don’t nag. Men don’t listen to you and they especially don’t listen to you when you try to be their mother. Arguing with men is useless. Words are useless when it comes to men. When he does something that disappoints you or pisses you off respond with actions. Withdraw, become distant, and leave the house. Go shopping or go out with your friends. Don’t come home until late. Don’t get an attitude, just do it and he’ll notice your distant and correct what he’s done wrong, because he isn’t stupid, he knows what he’s done.

There are ways to make co-habiting tolerable. Overall, though, unless a man is benefiting you in some way (he cooks all your meals, he pays your bills, etc.) I don’t see why you would marry or get into co-habiting LTR with one.

2020-02-06T17:07:42+00:00

They can be broken for YOU and me because we can choose not to accept those marriage dynamics. If you accept a relationship and stay in it then that will be the life you've chosen.

Do not even for a moment allow someone to treat you like a maid or cook or planner. Have standards from the beginning and don't let them falter. If the standards are broken then divorce and live your best life. Always have a back up plan, never be in a marriage you are trapped in due to financials.

siddmartha · 2020-02-06T17:38:57+00:00

I have no idea...the only solid example of a relationship in my life is my uncle and his partner: they adopted a child and are like crazy happy. I can only hope to have a relationship like that. I don't think I have any examples of healthy straight married couples in my life lol My aunts husband literally goes around telling other family members that he's miserable and he's such an amazing person for not leaving my aunt..

I think the trick is to communicate, TALK A LOT, ARGUE, HASH IT OUT.. Most people do not know how to communicate well. The issue with my aunt and her husband is that they don't communicate well (my parents too except they got a divorce), while my uncle and his partner are always talking. I think the lack of communication builds up resentments and pent up anger that never gets released and you just end up hating your husband over time. No one is happy then.

kht777 · 2020-02-06T16:06:44+00:00

My grandparents had and my aunts and uncles all have wonderful marriages. So, I guess I am lucky that I was surrounded by that growing up.

french_toast_fervor · 2020-02-06T13:59:54+00:00

". . . and the husband resents the wife for being a nag and a bore and not wanting to have sex anymore"

Or, just as grim, he is too pornsick to perform and she is doing all that grunt work for a spouse who provides NO intimacy, physical OR emotional. She is mommy, therapist, maid, and isn't even getting laid!!

Can the dynamic change? I have no idea. It would be a lot of work to change it, though, and I know which partner would be doing the lion's share.

psychsense · 2020-02-07T03:05:47+00:00

Marriage is a sham. I will never do it and never have kids with a man. I think a lot of people look at older couples without realizing there was probably a lot of misogyny going on In their marriage too back when they were younger. The difference is the women didn’t have a choice so they stayed and now that they’re old they’re just so cute and we forget. Maybe marriage used to “work” but I don’t think nowadays there’s a good reason for women to go into to such a shitty deal. Sorry for being so blunt, I just see the reality of these posts, the stats (1 in 2 marriages end in divorce) and a lot of women still believing their marriage will be different.

2020-02-06T23:23:46+00:00

you're asking two different questions here. You're asking if the dynamic can be broken but it seems to lump in with your implicit question "is this my future and how do I stop this from happening". you can find a really fucking fantastic guy who treats you really well and that you actually have fun with, feel cozy with and feel safe with. I recommend more than anything investing $30 in buying a copy of not your mother's rules and the rules 1 and 2 for audio. You can get a used copy of the real books for like five bucks a pop. I recommend audio. It will change your life and it will answer your question

2020-02-07T02:22:43+00:00

I’m 24F and I was told by married elderly couples (including my married grandpa) that after 10 years you’ll probably dislike each other. That doesn’t mean a divorce but they implied the magic is gone. I feel like u should try to work it out with ur partner but I do feel like divorce is good in the sense you don’t have to stay with some man who treats you badly or is mean to you regularly and brings u down instead of building u up.

quaintlyspoken · 2020-02-06T21:36:22+00:00

The top two contributors to ubhappy marriages are:

LVM / LVW

Children

The vast majority of people shouldn't be having children or they should at least take greater care to do so but they don't. In the Childfree community we refer to these people as breeders and I'm sure ypu all know thr type of family dynamics involving these children that I'm talking about, if you weren't a child of a breeder yourself. Children are by far the most vulnerable of society. Me obviously don't care about them and still too little women have wisened up about the lives that they bring into the world.

tugboatron · 2020-02-06T19:27:08+00:00

Marriage is what you make of it. Marriage doesn’t suddenly turn a supportive, independent man into an idiot child anymore than it turns a happy, sexually exciting woman into a frigid nun. I really dislike notions from either gender that a ring on a finger magically changes an entire personality when that same person would have been a great partner without the ring. It’s about investing in someone who will invest in you, and discuss expectations and roles extensively before ever getting married so you aren’t blindsided.

My husband and I have been together for 10 years, married for 3, always shared household duties 50/50, have had disagreements but never an argument (no raised voices, no insults,) now that I’m pregnant he’s incredibly helpful doing the vast majority of the housework. We say thank you constantly for everything, gratitude is important. We apologize when we’re grumpy. I’ve never done his laundry, I don’t treat him like a dependent, we do favours for each other but take care of our own shit. That’s because we chose good partners in each other, we take ownership for our own choices. In contrast I’ve definitely dated ridiculous man-children and the only person I can blame is myself for putting up with it longer than I ever should have. I didn’t marry them for a reason.

ny-lady · 2020-02-07T02:43:41+00:00

Well, my mom and step dad are on 27 years now and lovey dovey still. They are active look younger, act younger etc. Both mid to late 60's.

Me, Im glad I never married. Im 40's. If I did, Id be divorced by now and really no shame to those that are divorced as life happens but Im glad I don't have that baggage.

si_vis_amari__ama · 2020-02-06T21:45:31+00:00

The guy I'm dating likes to observe old couples together, and see if they're happy. If the man treats her chivalrously, if they smile, if they seem comfortable around each other.

He pays a lot of attention to such observations. He's also very HVM. If I have a bad day, he shows up with a bag of groceries, cooks me eggs benedict, tells me to stay in my PJs and holds tightly. He's always so full support. Going abroad for fieldwork? He offers to pay my rent if my finance is tight, and wants to take care of my cat. He just wants me to be comfortable and joyful. These are the men that heal you after a real smelly trashbag LVM, truly.

It makes me appreciate there are men who share our concerns. I think with such men, a happy marriage is possible. They will want to put in the effort to make that dream of getting smile wrinkles real.

Title	Marriage Dynamics-- can they be broken?
Author	Nearby-Armadillo
Upvotes	132
Comments	56
Date	February 6, 2020 1:50 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/ezsm6n/marriage_dynamics_can_they_be_broken/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/marriage-dynamics-can-they-be-broken.694053 https://theredarchive.com/post/694053

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