A not so typical situation

BluepillProfessor · 2015-06-03T17:02:47+00:00

The generally accepted Red Pill answer is that you CANNOT make a man Alpha up. However, I am not the typical Red Pill guy and in fact my wife makes more than 5X's my income.

Several other females have posted this question on MRP and often it appears they are trying to build a better Beta so they are met with extreme hostility! You do not appear to fall into that category so your question may even make it past /u/whinemoreplease (:

There is one thing I have suggested but unlike other advice we give on MRP this is NOT vetted because the sample size is way to small to draw firm conclusions.

I believe that to get a man to Alpha up, you can sometimes go to his father, brother, or close friends and ask for their help. You must be VERY submissive and deferential to the men you are asking for help and you must roll out your request for help VERY carefully. You also need to avoid visiting all his friends and family with this- pick your targets and choose very carefully. Mention it ONCE and ONCE only and never bring it up again unless asked.

The problem is you can't do it alone. YOU can't tell a man to be more dominate, more in charge, and more responsible because YOU would be the one in charge by doing that. I am sure RPW already told you this fact and you are not going to get another answer on MRP.

The only thing YOU can do other than asking friends and family for help is to surrender! I get you are the "Bread Winner" (and so is my wife) but that doesn't mean you cannot surrender at home! Start deferring to your husband when you get home. Serve him. Do what he tells you to do. ENCOURAGE him to tell you what to do and then do it with joy- you are helping your husband be more Alpha by getting him to tell you what to do when you get home!

This could take months of you 'faking it before you make it' before you even notice an improvement so be prepared for that.

I would actually tell him flat out that you work hard and you want your man to be in charge when you get home. THEN you have to step back and let him be in charge. Stop thinking and analyzing- you do plenty of that at work. You have to zip it and let him make mistakes. You have to accept that even if he is driving the car into a ditch, you are not the one at the wheel.

This is all from "The Surrendered Wife" which you need to read. Try submitting to your husband- at least when you get home from work. If you put the responsibility on him and surrender, it is possible he may man up according to this book. I doubt it, but it is the only thing I have ever seen written that suggests a viable path for you- except of course Ephesians, Corinthians, and 1st Peter which, amazingly enough, has the exact same prescription.

On sex, I can tell you with a lot more conviction than the earlier paragraphs that either your husband has a medical problem or more likely your husband is not initiating and is turned off by sex because he feels (and IS) a pathetic bitch while you are the in-charge mommy for him. Right? Again, the solution is the same as above.

Finally, on sex and initiating, since you stumbled into a men's locker room I would be remiss in failing to tell you the near sure fire solution for a woman lacking in sex- unless there is a medical issue of course. Your coyness and flirtatiousness will not work on the block of lead you call sweetheart so a more direct approach is called for. The solution is to GRAB HIS COCK. Unzip it, get it hard with your mouth, and then lay back and start touching yourself. If that doesn't work then nothing will. I would be prepared for him to reject you at first. He may be shocked and repulsed. That is fine! Your sexual needs and desires are just fine thank you very much. In fact, if he didn't join me I would grab the Hitachi Magic wand and finish on my own. You are a perfectly normal, functioning woman so don't let him shame you! Just smile sweetly even if he calls you a nasty whore and tell him you are HIS nasty whore while you finish. {:

There is a book that you may want to read and leave around the house for your husband to find and you may consider having him read it: "Just Fuck Me" is a purple pill book that reads a bit like the female version of the (MRP recommended book) "The Sex God Method."

Good Luck.

UEMcGill · 2015-06-03T16:41:31+00:00

This is really a better question for RPW....

But why would he change? He's fucking retired already, gets all the sex he wants, and Mommy comes over and picks up the slack.

What's broken with you that you put up with bullshit?

jacktenofhearts · 2015-06-03T22:30:17+00:00

Go figure, I start thinking about RPW theory on the same week we're banned from their sub. Oh well, their loss.

In any event: I'm beginning to conclude the female version of Dread is basically just an overt ultimatum. Think about it -- we know women communicate covertly, so we advise against overt Dread. Hence the 12 Levels of Dread and not just saying "fuck me or fuck you."

But men communicate overtly. PUA caught on with guys because it was concrete, actionable, overt advice. Not the usual bullshit like "just talk to her" or "be yourself" or "you just need to have more confidence." Things like "negging scripts" took it to sort of an absurd extreme, but most guys just used that as "training wheels" anyway. The advice we give on Red Pill is similar. Concrete, actionable, and overt advice.

Red Pill Women seem to advise against "look, you need to shape up or this is over." But with men, the kind of covert action they suggest -- being more feminine, nagging less, letting him lead, etc -- can only go so far. Almost all of us probably had some turning point in our life where someone -- a father, a teacher, a coach, whatever -- told us some version of, "you are acting like a loser, and if you don't stop fucking around, you are going to be a loser." Or perhaps something like, "as long as you're [in state X], you'll never achieve [goal Y]." You can't get much more plain and overt than that. In other words, for a lot of men, the most significant moments that led to them significantly changing/improving their lives usually involved some sort of overt communication."

So here's the thing -- if you're a woman who wants a happier marriage, RPW advice is great for that. The message seems to be: "Look, your husband makes $125,000 a year and manages 12 people. He's clearly capable of being a leader and also as a kinder husband. So maybe let him lead, act kind and trust he'll act kind in response, and see what happens. It will probably be more constructive than your current approach of verbally assaulting him every time he brings home the wrong ground beef."

But /u/LiaKathryn doesn't just want a happier marriage with a husband. She wants her husband to change, which is a different story. She mentioned letting him manage the bills, and he fucked this up. The RPW advice is irrelevant because this man is not capable of leading -- perhaps because he doesn't care, or he has confidence issues, or he has undiagnosed mental disorders. But he won't change until he gets over himself and decides to change, and for a man, I think that kind of behavior usually requires overt communication as a catalyst.

So my recommendation to women in these situations is basically some form of ultimatum, backed by actual consequences for the outcome. Classic example is something like, "I'm going to my sister's, I'll be back in a week, if you want to save this marriage then you need to give me a plan on how you're going to fix your shit, and then do it." This is kind of a "bitch move," but it's also exactly the kind of message the OP will receive loud and clear.

There are two caveats to this. One, as expected, is the OP's husband may respond poorly and resentfully, as we're naturally inclined to do when we receive ultimatums. When my wrestling coach told me I was destined to be a loser if I didn't shape up, my first instinct was to tell him to fuck off. Then I went home, and I thought about what he said for hours, and days, to the point where I still remember that exact conversation to this today. Even if I decided he was wrong, the message was loud and clear and stronger than any other form of communication he could have used.

The other caveat is this: My coach did not want me to be a loser. He wanted me to change. He was also more than willing to accept that change if I committed to it. He didn't question that change, he wasn't bothered by the fact that he had to tell me to change, and I didn't conclude that for myself. He didn't say: yeah, you changed, but I had to tell you to do that, so that doesn't count.

Unfortunately, women are not nearly as charitable. They want their men to "just get it," as Rollo has never hesitated to mention. So OP has to ask herself, if she issues this ultimatum, and her husband gets his shit together, will she still hold that against him? He didn't "just get it," she had to tell him to "just get it." The best case scenario is OP's husband gets it without her having to tell him how to "just get it," and at least feel good about that.

But if OP is fine with that (and she very well may be, seeing as she's already "Red Pill Aware"), and is willing to ask her husband potentially reacting poorly (hopefully only at first, but you never know) -- then I think a "fix your shit or I'm out" is the best form of "Dread," because it's the most direct and overt message to a man that he needs to get his ass in gear, because he's fucking a good thing up.

A woman working through "Levels of Dread" will just produce the opposite effect -- the covert messages will be missed or misinterpreted. OP's husband will probably just withdraw further, until he finally gets the divorce papers, which he'll say he "never saw coming" and will totally mean it. And he'll say: "if you had all these problems with me and our marriage, why didn't you say anything?"

So, OP -- say something. Be overt, direct, and make it as clear as you need to that his behavior is going to have certain consequences. He may not respond well to that message -- but he will get the message.

whinemoreplease · 2015-06-03T16:25:40+00:00

Yeah... I don't know what to say, but your dude seems really lame and unmotivated in doing anything....

Personally, I would make it an overt expectation that I expect him to be masculine (i.e. have his own direction, aims, and goals) and explicitly emasculate him until he steps up to the challenge. Things like, an allowance. There's no reason to pretend to respect someone that you don't. (Again, my advice is probably complete shit, but that's where I would start.)

My advice to you would be the same to any guys posting here, figure out your boundaries, set them, and have consequences for failing to meet them. Divorce should always be on the table for someone who fails to meet your expectations.

druganswer · 2015-06-03T22:05:10+00:00

This guy has the life, tell him you don't give a shit that he's not making money now (in school) but he's going to shower your ass with luxuries when he's making the bux at his new CS job so he better do fucking good and get a good one (when he does don't REALLY make him shower you with shit or maybe let him do it once, you probably deserve it TBH), if you want more sex tell him his part time job while he's preparing himself to make the big bucks is to fuck you good.

Oh and as we tell men here... if you got ugly (fat) or something... you're fucked and maybe you're the beta bux lol

ElGuapoMiguel · 2015-06-03T17:14:42+00:00

Your spouse is a lazy bear. My guess is your husband has either low testosterone levels or a porn problem. All men love sex, unless they have the above.

For testosterone, have him get a blood test. For the porn addiction, check his browser. My guess it is the test levels, which is an easy fix. Check out low t wife blog and google lazy bear husband.

However a lazy bear is a tough fix, you are going to have to ultimatum him.

Anon_Dutch · 2015-06-03T23:07:59+00:00

This is a very difficult question for MRP. We are entirely focussed on how men should interact with women, not vice versa. That being said, your post seems genuine so I'll offer my thoughts. Your husband is a bit of a conundrum, in another post you state that he has slept with over 150 women, which a beta could never accomplish, indicating that he might be alpha. However, his complete lack of leadership or goals precludes him from being considered alpha. If he had asked MRP for advise, I would have advised him to man up, take charge of his own life and your relationship, become the alpha male you presumably want him to be. However, since you are the one asking, and given your damning description of him, I will break from traditional RP theory and advise you to man up. He does not appear to possess the capacity or desire to become the leader in your relationship. It is utterly oxymoronic to think that you could lead him to become the leader. Instead, I'd suggest that you accept and embrace the fact that he is destined to a life of betadom. You are unhappy with the current situation, so you need to change it. Since he is not going to rise to leadership, you need to further subjugate him to achieve the results you desire. Set clear expectations for him and punish him when he fails to achieve them. This is easy in your case since you control the purse strings. Conversely, reward him for behaving in desirable ways. This applies both in every day life and in the bedroom. Make him your submissive. Force him to engage in foreplay and sexually satisfy you. If he refuses or objects, tighten the purse strings, punish him in other ways, or ultimately initiate divorce. In order to succeed in subjugating him, you must be willing to walk away. If the possibility of divorce is not on the table, he will not be motivated to change. It feels very odd to offer this type of advise to a woman, however you appear to be more of a man than your husband, so I hope my advise helps you. I would also be very curious to hear in the future how this works out for you. Best of luck.

iloveairplane · 2015-06-04T12:59:00+00:00

Step one get his T levels checked.

angels_fan · 2015-06-03T16:50:21+00:00

I really don't understand where guys get this idea that whoever makes the most money in the house should rule the house. And that if the woman makes more, he should step down as captain.

Just simply not true.

FrozenSoil · 2015-06-03T17:48:32+00:00

The advice given is solid...though as with everything here, your mileage may vary.

If he doesn't shape up, don't be afraid to Next him. A woman making 200k/yr who's in decent shape and wants a lot of sex...you'd have no problem finding a suitor.

RPcoyote · 2015-06-03T17:07:04+00:00

Something close to a Relationship 180 (look it up) or female version of dread should work. You have to step up, woman. Don't take a shitty life while hubby is coasting. Nice to be making all that $$, but if you're unsatisfied with your man/ life, you shouldn't put up with it.

alphabeta49 · 2015-06-03T17:54:33+00:00

All good advice from the other guys here. Remember that men are overt and straightforward by nature. He's not going to get any hints of you wanting him to change. Make your desires verbally clear without coming across as having expectations or hoops to jump through.

Jethros · 2015-06-03T19:10:38+00:00

Is there anything in his life that he does control? A hobby, an interest, anything he takes pride in and wholeheartedly enjoys? If so, take it away, and keep it away until he takes it back forcefully. If he switches hobbies or interests, take that away too. Eventually he will man up and take what's rightfully his, and hopefully come around on lot of the other things you have mentioned above.

Hunter2isit · 2015-06-03T22:05:39+00:00

Sounds a bit like depression on his part, leaving your job / taking a pay cut is rather emasculating + going back to school is mentally tough. Been there. So there could be a question of validation, there could be a low T issue and or there could be depression / anxiety. He isn't feeling worth and you aren't seeing it. There is also the Q of is he going back to school for you or him? I'd bet if you asked him he wouldn't have a straight answer which means depressed (mildly) and not for him.

So in a world where we abolish covert contracts here is what I think you should do: Speak directly to him about what is bothering you but validate him as a human in the process. You feel that as your husband he should be plowing you recklessly nightly, that should be obvious right? Well it isn't, that is a covert contract. SO tell him "you are my husband, I love you but you aren't happy right now. I bust my ass 60 hours a week for our family and I expect that when I come home you (points to dick) are happy to see me. But you haven't been lately. I also know that you aren't happy with your job. I need you to be happy. What are you doing to make you happy and feel like you contribute to the marriage more?"

Now you watch for his hamster and his shit tests. Rules are the same, A&A + pressure flip. I would also stress validation, make him feel validated. Has he been hitting the gym? Squeeze his arm and say "I love how big you are" swat on the ass and keep moving. Compliment, flirt all of the married man's sex life primer, you can do much of that.

turn30left · 2015-06-03T23:26:34+00:00

Are you overweight? Out of shape?

BluepillProfessor · 2015-06-04T02:15:01+00:00

I wonder if there is a market for a TV series on "Red Pill Intervention." We could have Rollo, some of the Alphas and a group of the guys friends confront him one evening. All his friends and family can read stories of how him being the Drunk Captain has ruined their lives and why can't he take charge? Finally the sobbing wife tells him what she needs or she is filing for divorce...

I am serious. I bet this would work better with manginas than an intervention does for drug addiction.

On your edit: I thought I had concluded that Dread is gender specific but....

Yes I think you increasing your SMV further would further emasculate him. It is terrible but that is part of the problem. He feels so low, and apparently has no life goal other than to be Mr.-Dr. Mangina. I just don't think you getting even hotter and more valuable will help that.

I also don't think escalating through Dread, flirting with other guys in front of him and so on is going to help that or change his behavior. Men and women are wired differently, despite what they may have told you in medical school. Women respond with competition anxiety and sexual arousal. Men are likely to respond by giving up even further.

What WILL wake him up and potentially change his behavior- although not necessarily for the better- is the credible threat of divorce.

StuffaYouFace · 2015-06-04T05:18:33+00:00

I am going to give you advice that would have helped my STBX wife and I out. I didn't want to fuck my wife either. While we didn't have the role reversal that you do, I just lost interest in having sex. No matter what, you are the same person he has been having sex with for years. There is no beating this. The sex is going to dropoff no matter what. You say you are the same weight that you were when you were married. That doesn't tell is that your fit. I married my wife but she was "heavier" girl to begin with. Get to the gym. There was a correlation between her weight and me wanting to fuck her. Get the testosterone tested. Get some shots or cream. And finally stop nagging him. I am sure that you are on his ass about everything. The messy house, unpaid bills, lack of classes, lack of sex. STFU and do your thing and leave him alone. I got to the point where I was happier when she left for the day, rather than out up with her shit. Finally, get rid of the porn. It was easier for me to do it myself than try and perform for her. Porn made that easier. Without it, I was riled up. I know my comment is a little disjointed but try what I say out before giving up on your marriage. Trust me when I say it is worse divorced than trying to fix it.

ZeeyardSA · 2015-06-04T05:38:31+00:00

I am going to speak about my personal situation

Hate to break up the family though, he's a great dad.

I say the same thing about my wife(Awesome mom, Sex whenever I want, awesome housekeeper, etc)...But the fact that she is overweight was killing me, literally...I was down in the dumps and giving up.....We had spoken about it for YEARS and she knew and knows how the excess fat irritates me.....

The only thing that really made her ship up was me having to literally drop the bomb...I told her in no uncertain terms that "I cannot continue living like this" this was after her bitching about being scared to eat in front of me when we visit family and friends as she loves food(after we had another convo a week prior)...She asked what did I mean and i again told her that "I cannot continue living like this" and left it at that...I had made the decision that no matter how good a mom and wife she was the fact that she is not taking an active part in taking care of her body is not acceptable and I will not continue living in misery..for the record as in your case I too have exactly the same weight and body that i had 10 years ago.

Good Luck Doc!

coffee_and_lumber · 2015-06-04T16:26:56+00:00

He needs to come here. Or rather, to /r/TheRedPill for basic training. Many of us here who are now strong(er) men, started out a lot like your husband.

Thing is, he has to come here on his own. We always use the somewhat cliche Matrix analogies to explain Red Pill (I mean, that's where the term itself comes from) but it's apt. You cannot be told what the Matrix is, you can only be shown, and you really have to make the choice on your own to be unplugged. For me, once I really had my "aha" moment with this, I realized that I needed to start lifting, immediately, and disregard all distractions from that. For a man, so much power flows from his physical strength and testosterone levels. (Testosterone is basically The Force for us.) Your husband has to have this moment, whether through us or through some other channel.

As to how to get that going, I don't know. I'm sure someone else here will have a nicely nuanced opinion. But in some way shape or form, he needs a strong, positive, motivating male role model, or even better, a group of them. It is extremely important for men to know their place, as informed directly by other good men, or simply by observing them.

I've been a miserable sack of shit guy in another era of my life, so I don't think all is necessarily lost, but damn, it's a hell of a climb out of that hole.

taon4r5 · 2015-06-03T16:18:57+00:00

Given the prevailing premise here that men and women are psychologically different, especially WRT sex, I don't think MRP holds the answers you're seeking.

But FWIW, finding ways to help him feel like a man again could yield results. Make sure he feels competent, appreciated, valued, needed, respected, social and desirable and that he's taking care of the family .... which is all easier said than done in the situation you've described. You're doing good things for your family with the unfortunate side effect that he may feel emasculated.

fauxscot · 2015-06-03T17:06:27+00:00

Right now, California is parched and Texas is flooded. Something is just wrong about that. I feel that way about you... such a shame to see such promising energy wasted. Hurts my heart. Can you not do better? Re-engineering a man is a hard thing to do, and this seems rather fundamental.

Enphuego · 2015-06-03T20:58:50+00:00

As for the financial: Even though you make $200k, there's no requirement that you live like you make $200k. If you are tired of working, you could live like a person that makes $50k and be done working in 7 years. Also, living off of $50k might mean that your husband has a fighting chance of being able to support you if you want to switch roles and your kids aren't going to grow up accustomed to an expensive lifestyle.

You don't need to ask your husband, you can just set the budget and be done with it. If he can't handle it, cut up the credit and debit cards and hand him cash each month. There's no excuse for you to be eating takeout every night because your husband was too lazy to cook something healthy.

Ideally, this will piss him off and he'll be motivated to actually do something about him. He might just passively accept it and learn to live off less, which is kinda a win for you as well.

His life lacks any adversity, I suggest you create it for him.

NotABibleScholar · 2015-06-03T22:58:14+00:00

Why do you NEED your income? 30 to 45k can be a respectable income, people today are greedy and stupid. Your husbands sex drive is low cause he is emasculated. He is basicly a woman. Your career isn't your life, your family is. Prioritize what is important, and start defering to him and treating him like a man. Try reading the surrendered wife, don't try to make him man up. Just start deferring responsibility to him, treat him with respect. Its not rocket science, you aren't a man stop trying to play one on TV.

Title	A not so typical situation
Author	LiaKathryn
Upvotes	20
Comments	112
Date	June 3, 2015 4:00 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/38dvba/a_not_so_typical_situation/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/a-not-so-typical-situation.201770 https://theredarchive.com/post/201770

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