Help with a confusing situation that seems to be backfiring on me

jacktenofhearts · 2015-11-08T19:06:59+00:00

Way too much active Dread.

Since you and your FL wife decided to procreate every other year, your wife is stupidly deep in the "Security Phase" as Rollo describes. She needs those beta bucks hard.

It sounds like you've really way too overt with your Dread. "If we're not fucking then I'm going to leave you" has been an explicit message. This will ge lt your wife to fuck you, but it's a purely compulsory reaction. She wants to fuck you so you don't leave, but she doesn't actually want to fuck you to fuck you.

I've used the car salesman analogy before. When you tell the car salesman thanks, but you want to go home and think about this, he inevitably says, "OK but after today I can't give you that price because, [some bullshit reason.]" How to you react? You get pissed, and frustrated, and wonder if he's bullshitting you. And if you buy the car, do you feel good about it? Or are you just sort of anxious about getting ripped off?

Active Dread doesn't let the hamster work for you. If you want a better explanation grounded in more academic thinking, Google "the socratic method."

This morning she is back at it that all I want her for is sex, she can't understand why I was about to leave her for lack of intimacy

Because you didn't let her arrive at this conclusion at her own. Let's flip the roles. Your wife needs the beta bucks hard at this point in her life. Let's say you lost your job and played videogames all day. Your wife would not snap and say, "go get a job otherwise I want a divorce." But she would definitely withdraw gradually, and a icy veneer would start to cover every reaction with her. The subtext is there - my enthusiasm for this marriage is flagging because I'm not getting what I need from it.

But that's not what you did. You and every guy here that does this, that has the "fuck you or fuck me" angry conversation, ends up in this place. A brief burst of sex, then resentment when their wives finally get sick of fucking their husbands out of pure fear and compulsion that they'll leave them.

I would strongly recommend you revisit your approach to Dread and consider more indirect and passive ways, with your ACTIONS, that you didn't sign up for celibacy and it's gravely disappointing when she acts as such.

Your wife doesn't want to fuck a used car salesman, so stop acting like one.

exbp · 2015-11-08T16:47:31+00:00

Hard no's make me disappear and I don't initiate anything after that until she does. No cuddles, no affection and only enough attention to get household stuff done.

"You only want me for sex" is her own little pill swallowing going on. She is realizing what she really brings to the table. It might only be childcare and sex. I usually respond with "no I enjoy a nice dinner too" but I've never found anything that turns this attitude around completely in 10 mins.

Dread is great but you first have to break her idea that she has some magic pussy that you can't resist. She has to internalize that you're indifferent to sex and have other things to do. Only after that will she start to wonder if you've found some other magic pussy and dread will start to work.

BluepillProfessor · 2015-11-08T17:57:38+00:00

Here is your marital advice:

FUCK...YOUR....SEX.....DENYING....MANIPULATIVE....."WIFE"

In bed we get back to business and she starts to blow me but then stops, says she's too tired and tells me to finish myself off.

Are you fucking serious? This is practically grounds for divorce!

You only want me for sex is a Shit Test.

The truth is SHE ONLY WANTS YOU FOR CUDDLES AND FINANCIAL SUPPORT.

Fuck her. I give you permission to fuck whoever you want. However, first rule out medical. Get her hormones checked out. Not that this is an excuse, but it could be a reason. If the reason is that she just likes the power of denying you and seeing your frustratio and pain more than she likes getting fucked by you then you have your answer.

Then after pulling this deliberate bullshit she does this:

This morning she is back at it that all I want her for is sex

I would seriously double and triple down on only wanting her for sex. She wants her Beta Bux to sit quietly, earn for her, support her, cuddle her...but she can't give you 5 minutes of Starfish because she is more interested in flaunting her power.

Wrong answer.

DanG3 · 2015-11-08T18:11:44+00:00

"... she starts to blow me but then stops, says she's too tired and tells me to finish myself off."

She no longer regards you as something she needs to attract, nor does she truly believe that she needs to attract you. For some (all?) women the NEED to attract is their primal/instinctual feeling of attraction to you. When you went nuclear on her, you "revealed" your hand and your ultimatum to her. It worked for a while ... when she was shaken enough that you just might be "crazy" enough to have an affair ... until she started hamstring her knowledge of you that ...
"[I] have 2 women actively trying to fuck me. I am not willing to do that however as I don't believe in the amoral aspect of infidelity)" ... She has no instinctual need to attract you. She knows, and has proven to herself, that she can go as far as stop mid-blow job and tell you to finish yourself off and YOU WILL TAKE IT. (OI is not all always as effective as its touted to be.)

"My wife is now saying that all I want her for is sex. I told her if all I wanted was sex that I could get it anywhere I wanted." ... A woman's primal, INSTINCTUAL mind interprets your response as, "His drive for sex is now low enough that I don't have to worry about attracting him - I don't have to be attractive to him." Further, in primal terms, she is not attracted to you. She has no reason to be.

The interrupted blow job and current reduction in her enthusiasm for sex are both symptoms of her lack of "belief" that she needs to attract you AND also tests to see if she actually needs to attract you. MFUE - Marriage (2.0) does Fuck Up Everything.

If I were you (and I have been there - check my recent posts), I would get VERY distant, distracted, and unmotivated to do a lot of the stuff you normally do around the house. (Ditch the cooking dinner, for starters.) Get distant in your thoughts when you are with her, sitting at the dinner table, start guarding your phone, pace the floors - like you are anxious to leave. Have a "virtual affair."

ETA: For your consideration: Is it "amoral" to do everything you can to keep your marriage and family?

stonepimpletilists · 2015-11-08T16:04:15+00:00

Dread, affection, complacency /comfort , Inaffection, repeat.

I am finding this cycle every few months or so.

theultmatecad · 2015-11-08T19:06:40+00:00

You are failing the shit test " you only want me for sex"

Agree and amplify that shit

Sepean · 2015-11-09T10:02:00+00:00

However after the first couple months of this all the sudden my wife has hard rejected me a number of times over the last couple weeks and put up LMR that I cannot break through with AM or A&A. I however have held frame, stood up and said I've got better things to do and gone and done them.

Standard stuff. She gets excited with her better beta, then after a while she ramps up the shit tests to see if you're alpha. You failed to hold frame and you're slipping back to unfuckable status.

It happened to all of us. First there's the "you only want me for sex" phase, then there's the "you're a total asshole" phase, then there's the unbridled rage of the main event; and then you've graduated and you can enjoy the somewhat calmer life of an established alpha.

This is where I get confused though - My wife is now saying that all I want her for is sex. I told her if all I wanted was sex that I could get it anywhere I wanted

You get completely pulled into her frame here. Own the fact that you want her for sex. Sure you want her for other things too; own that too. "Honey, that's not true. I want you to make me sandwiches too" is a standard response to what she is saying.

But her main role is to provide sexual services. Don't beat around the bush with that. Bending over backwards to tell her how it isn't sex you want just screams beta.

I am not willing to do that however as I don't believe in the amoral aspect of infidelity) She has also said she doesn't trust me (dread)

So she's saying she doesn't trust you, and you get pulled into her frame and explain your superior morals. Stop doing that, hold frame and either A&A it or just go with amused mastery: smirk and walk out.

You're supposed to want to fuck other girls, especially when your wife isn't working hard to keep your balls drained.

I stand up and tell her to have a great night, kiss her on the forehead and walk out of the room. This morning she is back at it that all I want her for is sex, she can't understand why I was about to leave her for lack of intimacy, and that we need marriage counseling because she feels that I am nothing to her other than a vagina.

I told her [...] that I choose to come provide for her and the kids because I love them

This is literally the nice guy beta speech. You're explaining to her how your oneitis is so bad you'll gladly give her and the kids all your resources. What is going on here, you want her to love you for your sacrifice, your effort, your undying love? When it comes to wanting to fuck you she doesn't care at all about those things.

and that if she is not attracted to me not to be hurt but that I've just got better things to do,

Why do you care if she's hurt? Why are you explaining it to her? It's just something you do, and you shouldn't give a fuck what she thinks about it.

we both have different roles to play in this relationship all while holding frame. My role is to provide and stay committed, hers is to take care care of the house, kids & me. She is acting extremely hurt by this and pulling away hard. WTF?

You're trying to negotiate desire, and that dries her pussy up.

Your role is not to provide and stay committed. That is the opposite of your role. Your role is to be alpha: to be awesome, handsome, interesting, charming, ripped, dominating and completely unaffected by what others think. And to stick your dick in pussy.

That is your role. And when that becomes your frame, your wife will naturally assume her role: she will want to work hard to make damn sure that sticking your dick in her pussy is so good for you that you're not taking it anywhere else.

All that other stuff: providing, taking care of the kids and the house, that's just handling the practicalities like adults. By all means be awesome at that too, but it hardly matters when it comes to sex and attraction.

I'm genuinely confused at how to move forward from here. I plan to pull away for a few days again and work on me while she hamsters away but how do I address the issue of her withholding sex and saying that is what I base our relationship on while untrue?

/u/alphabeta49 also made an excellent post the other day that you should read: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/3ro32e/the_better_way_to_get_the_sex_you_want/

And you need to stop lying to yourself about how much you base your relationship on sex. You're having fights with your wife about it, you're complaining about it here. It's a big deal to you, just like it is to all men. This isn't just like whether or not she likes watching sports with you (which would be nice but something you could easily live without). Own the fact that you want regular access to quality sex.

MRPguy · 2015-11-08T16:42:19+00:00

Too much beta being provided. Way too much. You have her on a pedestal still. There is no dread because if there was the outcome would be different. Pull back at home and she will begin to hamster about the opportunities you have at work.

trp_dude · 2015-11-09T21:52:46+00:00

Thanks for your post. I think posts about when TRP doesn't work is as valuable as when it does.

I'm going to go against the grain with my advice. I'm a newbie so take it with a grain of salt.

According to Athol Kay, around the 6 month mark of swallowing the pill, many men run off the rails and things start going South. He says that it's because you've used up all the beta goodwill you've accumulated and your wife needs more beta.

Athol says alpha is not the opposite of beta, and that your wife needs both. If she's afraid and feeling insecure, because you're not supplying enough beta, things will fall off the rails. Is this possible in your case?

0io- · 2015-11-10T02:16:33+00:00

If you are about to come, the right answer to "finish yourself," is almost always "do you want it in your mouth or on your face?"

If you're not about to come any time soon and she's genuinely tired or has other demands on her time, I would just start up again in the morning. Treat it like a session of making out.

RPcoyote · 2015-11-08T18:59:03+00:00

Man I am in a very similar situation as you. Almost exact: time since RP, 3rd kid a newborn, ~ 8yrs married, things better since RP, more sex but overall low enthusiasm for sex. You're still getting blow jobs though (mine not there yet).

So that's to say that I don't have a lot of advice since I am in similar spot... But I wil tell you what seems to be working for me that's different:
I have given up on fantasy of not "cheating". Will I seek a relationship on the side? No. But do I miss a good chance to have a good time? No. Just came back from a business trip where I had the most amazing oral sex with this chick ever. Probably for making up for all those years of missed bj s at home. Amazingly this woman was totally into it, in my frame, I went no more mister nice guy on her and we had an amazing time. Didn't quite fuck her (frankly I didn't want to - all I wanted to fuck was her mouth and it was awesome).

So anyway my approach is fuck it. I am not going to live forever. Applying the new me and all I learned this past year to get an amazing time while on a biz trip still puts a smile on my face now several days later. and it does not stop or change what I am doing at home - if anything it reminds me I am such a high value guy and its 100% my wife's loss if she doesn't see it.

Glennus626 · 2015-11-09T01:42:33+00:00

So, let me get this straight: You're willing to go nuclear and leave her and your kids and let your ship sink, but not willing to to let her believe you might go find another hole to stick your dick in?

No one is saying that you throw your morals out the window, but preaching about your morals (to her, too) is going to keep her dread level low. At this point, going nuclear was a beta outburst. "Waah, i need intimacy, or else!" Having preached about your morals in the past, she may even have dismissed the nuclear option altogether, and tried using your beta response against you in future denials of sex.

Basically, STFU applies here. When she hard denies you and you kiss her on the forehead and make ANY comment at all, it comes off as passive aggressive beta activity. Her hamster might spin for a few minutes until she realizes that you wouldn't cheat on her, and the sunk costs of your relationship are too high to just whimsically throw your marriage away. Hard denial? Escalate a little more, use what tools you can, but if it's a no go, just leave the room, or better yet roll over and go to sleep without a word (but without any commotion, either).

A woman who deeply believes that you only want her for sex and child-rearing will ultimately try to fulfill that role if she believes your value is high enough. Instead of getting whiny and exerting her power over you with the denial, she will comply eagerly (so that she can sit around eating bon bons and checking in on the kids from time to time). You THINK you are holding frame adequately, but I don't think you're succeeding completely.

STFU is your friend, just as much as amused mastery.

Sadbeary · 2015-11-08T23:14:57+00:00

"she starts to blow me but then stops, says she's too tired and tells me to finish myself off." That is disgraceful behavior from your wife. I'd never fuck her again unless she truly begged me.

DomesticNomad · 2015-11-09T23:49:46+00:00

idk maybe it's a stretch, but have you considered that perhaps your strategy is failing be you're taking advice on how to repair your 7 year marriage from a handful of high school sophomores, who in turn take their advice in large part from a man banned from an entire continent, in lieu of working it out with your wife like adults? like I said, tough call.

Title	Help with a confusing situation that seems to be backfiring on me
Author	BlueFoundations
Upvotes	19
Comments	94
Date	November 8, 2015 3:34 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/3s0h7g/help_with_a_confusing_situation_that_seems_to_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/help-with-a-confusing-situation-that-seems-to-be.200745 https://theredarchive.com/post/200745

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