Found this crossposted to Imgur - thoughts? (A post from a trans person on now being male)

The_Dapper_Balrog · 2022-04-01T23:43:16+00:00

They lay the blame on the wrong culprit, but they're not wrong about the experience.

Zir0hh · 2022-04-02T04:13:30+00:00

was good up until the remarks of every cis guy likely being homophobic for some reason... and with the added white imperialism at the bottom it certainly leaves an off-putting taste.

Maybe a few more years and they'll fully understand the struggles people go through, not just what they've been brainwashed into believing.

McFeely_Smackup · 2022-04-02T05:32:03+00:00

"white imperialism" came out of left field like the non sequitur equivalent of a jumping cat in a scary movie

TrilIias · 2022-04-02T00:48:55+00:00

This was actually illuminating and well thought out, and then BOOM!!!!

WhITe im^PErIALisM

nevertheless101 · 2022-04-02T02:00:15+00:00

It was alright til they brought race into it.

Vanriel · 2022-04-02T12:11:10+00:00

The things that got me were that there's a "garden variety homophobia".

You don't make such sweeping generalisations about a group of people based on a single trait, in this case the male gender. It is so dumb and so short sighted.

bilgediver · 2022-04-01T23:49:17+00:00

I was kinda blindsided by the whole "white imperialism" line

like wut? Who honestly believes shit like that?

The irony is most men are honestly just fine with this life, we understand our roles. This person is only mourning the loss of something they are used to. But for many of us we don't have the same feelings needs women do, so no, I honestly feel we aren't as "emotionally" stunted as this person is painting.

Mongoose_Stew · 2022-04-02T05:54:08+00:00

Welcome to the dark side, bro. You should be receiving your patriarchy privilege card in the mail in 6 to 8 weeks.

cyruszane · 2022-04-02T00:29:29+00:00

This is a good read. This guy here, is getting a taste of what it is like to be a man, a common thing among transmen. What has happened to him, right after becoming a man, and living as one he now sees the reality, not the romantic side of it. The John Wayne of it all, not to blame the duke but.. As you can see his mind is still trying to wrap around what is really going on and only grasping at the parts from his previous life that make sense. Trying to use that to combat what is now going on in his head. For instance, he says something to the effect that women keep their armor on and if it was down they would be assaulted .

My friends, we know that statement isn't the truth. The idea of a person being "creepy" is in the beholder, not the person them selves more often then not. However, he sees clearly the issues, but is really having trouble coming to terms with what the cause is, where they come from. He dose get very close, but reaches back to his past life and the things he was told, the armor he feels he had to put on in that past life, to find the answers for the issues he now faces.

Take this like the book "black like me" where a white man travels to Jim Crow Era south as a black man. He writes about how he was treated as a black man. While in those days a black man had it much worse then we do now, (not saying it's good, just how bad it was back then) it is a very like minded concept.

This transman clearly sees the issue, stating how sick he is, how upset he is but then blames "white imperialism" as the cause of it. (I laughed a little at that insane notion) one thing that he is very wrong about, and this is from his lack of experience, there are such things as close male bonds. There are bonds that last life times, and become brothers. I have, and will continue to do so, look out for another man who is down and in need of help. I am not alone, far from it there are many men like this.. however, our friend here wouldn't know that having just joined our ranks. Having spent a life time thinking the other side had privilege, only to miss it at 4am. Learning that this "privilege" they believed existed was only in the eyes of the other side, I have to wonder what shade the grass was to him. The hope I have for him came early on in his text, that he will some how find away to navigate this. This is something we all should see, and hear. Not only talk about but be the examples we want the younger men of this world to become. Teach how to navigate, teach how to stand up and be proud. Teach how to be a better brother, neighbor, and man.
Right now it seems hard, to him this is the first few days of prison, his new life. How will he live it, all he can see is the bad aspects because his past life he believed this way was more easy.. it is not. I can tell you, you will make it, you will be ok. In time you will learn that the closeness two brothers, who may not even share blood, can have is one of the most amazing bonds a man can have. I wish I could reach out to this man, and tell him; It will be ok. To you, who might feel some empathy to him, you too will find your path. The trick is never give up looking and rely on those you can call brother. Raise each other up.

AnFGhoster · 2022-04-02T09:08:59+00:00

The analysis is brilliant right up until the last page then they sound like they've been lobotomized.

All cismen are homophobic? I'll be sure to keep that in mind as a bi man. I'm sure the guys I've been able to have deep non-sexual connections with would appreciate that statement too. These are men I've trusted with things I'd never share with a woman.

And "White" imperialism? The hell does race have to do with this?

TesticalDefibrillate · 2022-04-02T03:59:25+00:00

The women’s camaraderie is also frequently superficial and they get very backstabby.

Anyone who’s worked in an all or mostly woman environment knows this. Even women have complained about this.

Both genders need each other.

JaggedGreen88 · 2022-04-02T08:35:24+00:00

He makes some very good and valid points. But equally make some stupid and/or irrelevant ones.

Practical-Rip6471 · 2022-04-02T04:14:58+00:00

What, you drunk the feminist cool aid, thought the grass was greener over here. Decided to jump the fence and cash in your male privilege and be part of the boys club. But then you found out that patriarchy doesn't exist, that you miss the privilege, pedestalling, provision and protection women get and are now frightened by the isolation and hostility that men endure.

lonestarcom · 2022-04-02T14:02:47+00:00

As a woman who used to be able to cross dress successfully and primarily socializes with males, this makes me laugh. Idk why he were expecting men to behave like women. The mental and emotional stress y’all go through sucks. Being a woman, I understand that I can find support at anytime while y’all don’t have nearly any support. He should have actually spent a decent amount of time around male culture incognito first

2022-04-02T05:50:06+00:00

Personally, I have a couple of friends to talk when I feel something wrong. We don't start crying together, but we either try to examine the problem or to forget it, if we can't help it. Isn't that enough?

Complicated_Peanuts · 2022-04-02T17:46:50+00:00

I was partially with them right up until the end where I was like, where Tf did you lead up to THAT conclusion. It’s so out of left field.

Men are “intimate” through speech and actions more than touch and hugs, and generally only in male spaces or spaces where it’s acceptable. Though placing myself in their shoes I can understand why that would be hard to understand as somebody new to it.

silent_thunder1618 · 2022-04-02T13:02:36+00:00

I feel like this person is still seeing the entire experience from female eyes, his opinion is still biased, there is a huge part of the picture that he is not aware of, but at least some steps have been given...

Lui_Le_Diamond · 2022-04-02T17:01:58+00:00

I was with them until they blamed it on white imperialism.

BigbadXOX · 2022-04-02T17:08:32+00:00

Don't fall for this type of menlib-esque analysis of gender. It's a trap to recruit impressionable young men who they know are not feeling good about themselves and their position in society, so that they can turn into feminists by dangling that ideology in front of them. Another red flag is how the post only talks about social expectations, nothing about legal rights, etc. That's as far as feminist good will towards men is willing to go. It's all about YOUR faults as a gender, and how you need to fix yourself to fit into society. But when it comes to women, they get to ask society to fix itself for them.

Mythandros · 2022-04-02T19:00:33+00:00

They lost me at "white imperialism".

There's no need to bring race into the argument and it simply invalidates any points made by OP.

HikuroMishiro · 2022-04-02T07:23:36+00:00

Mostly a load of bollocks. It is true that women tend to be a lot more intimate with each other than men do, but that doesn't mean men are stunted or that such intimacy is a superior form of camaraderie. Speaking of, just because men aren't as 'intimate' with each other doesn't mean we lack socialization or lack bonds. Men may tend to have fewer bonds than women but they also tend to be deeper. I'm not sure how war/dire situations relates to intimacy, maybe I'm interpreting that differently than the author. Maybe it refers to any physical contact and on the battlefield one soldier willing to carry his wounded brother to safety is the intimacy they refer to. Maybe the author is just cuckoo.

I don't think its true that men are 'socially starved' because all women treat them cold and aloof, which somehow also comes from "all sides of the aisle". While many women may indeed treat an unfamiliar man with more hesitation than an unfamiliar woman; 1: Yes this 'armor' is them being needlessly guarded as they are brainwashed by the supposed 'statistics' and 2: Socialization goes way beyond how aloof your cashier or other random passersby in your day our and men get plenty of socialization regardless of this 'armor' some put on.

And the ending with 'white imperialism' just nails the coffin shut on that this person it just hopelessly confused. It drips with the scent of a woke feminist that "crossed the gender barrier" to the green pastures of male privilege she was promised and is utterly baffled by the new reality she is finding and is trying to fit as much of it into the tiny box she has made for herself but is unable to do so.

White_Immigrant · 2022-04-02T09:25:13+00:00

Glad that the scales have fallen from their eyes, but then they blame it all on "white imperialism", they're still living in cloud cuckoo land. Smh.

solar-garlic1776 · 2022-04-02T15:28:46+00:00

I think the issue here is this person is trying to navigate or understand male bonding companionship with a female brain. Men and women have different brains we are wired differently. Just because this person now identifies as a man or has undergone TRT, they still have a woman's brain.

ConnectConcern6 · 2022-04-02T06:52:05+00:00

Exactly. (Not the white imperialism shit or the homophobia shit (for the most part)) being a man is very lonely. Especially if you have poor social skills as you have to approach people if you wanna be their friend or even get to know them. As very few people are actually gonna come up to you to try to start a conversation. Especially women.

Abstract_Knight · 2022-04-02T03:17:27+00:00

He will be socked after discovering this is even worse on Latam.

MrStone1 · 2022-04-02T11:21:11+00:00

Good luck fella, Suck it up, You'll fine...

Now go a get'em!

Koalachan · 2022-04-02T17:21:14+00:00

To be fair, they are just now starting to experience the other side of the coin, but only have their current indoctrination with which to try to explain it.

vwatchrepair · 2022-04-02T17:21:50+00:00

If the masses recognize this, they'll call it a "trans man issue." And that's about all that will be addressed. Sad, but true.

MaintenanceLow2599 · 2022-04-02T17:31:01+00:00

Well, it did make me think, and appreciated words being spoken into something not often spoken into.

But I still felt it came at the issue adressed from the typical "everything bad comes from men initially" angle that is so often seen in feminist inspired takes on social issues when they go into how the social isolating guard from women comes as a result of creepy-ass men.

Setting aside how the label of "creepy" is often attributed to unattractive men, rather than to actually dangerous sexually predatory men, whole take on it is basically that this behaviour from women, while cold and leading to isolation in men, is justified due to negative behaviour from men towards women first

And while I might not be able to phrase this elegantly and in a way that sound convincing, I do feel the fact that all men meet a wall of coldness and seeming rejection from women, can lead to such a level of social/emotional deprivation, that some men get so deseperate for intimacy that they lash out and take it, not that im saying that is ever justified in any way, shape or form, i just think its silly not to acknowledge that the behaviour that they trying to avoid from men are most likely enhanced in severety by their way to try to avoid it, but generally this part of the equation is ignored.

What im saying is that the rarity of which a man experience friendliness from women in general would influence their response to receiving it.If only 1% of women react friendly towards a man, he would put much more weight into her acting friendly towards him and be much more likely to take it as a sign of interest in him as a person, even if its not, and with being emotionally deprived, he would have an even greater need to satisfy himself with the one that seemed to want to give him that.

While if 99% of women react friendly towards the same man, for one he would put less weight/meaning into her acting friendly towards him, and less likely to take it as a sign of interest in him as a person, and he would be less emotionally deprived and thus have less needs he would want to satisfy.

Not saying sexually deviant men is an issue that would be solved by all women collectively lowering the guards in social situations, not at all, sexually deviant behaviour in people of any gender has a lot more varied origins than just that, but I find it unlikely to be helpful, and also lends itself towards victim blaming in the form of "well she was always sending him smiles across the room"/mixed signals kind of ways, because that is only taken as a signal for wanting something due to the general social guard women put up towards men under the assumption that all men are potential predators

2022-04-02T03:38:05+00:00

Maybe she just still looks like a woman and those people are just a little uncomfortable around her because they can see it.

daniellederek · 2022-04-02T12:11:55+00:00

Let me guess, they're 5ft6, 55lbs overweight, non existent jawline deeply on debt and are upset they haven't gotten the privlidge only extended to wealthy Caucasian males above 6 feet tall and below 17% body fat.....

Space_Exploring7_6 · 2022-04-02T13:39:12+00:00

They blatantly dehumanized males and then implied it's white imperialism... Wtf

Deadmenkil · 2022-04-02T20:29:31+00:00

Some good points in there but you must also consider the source here. They don't have it all figured out even if they think they do. But like I said there are some good points in there. There's absolutely no issues with straight men being friends though. Idk where they're getting that one.

Soda_BoBomb · 2022-04-02T22:35:50+00:00

Ah man I was so close to being on board but then they had to go and somehow blame "White Imperialism" and pretend that every woman is constantly at risk of assault.

Even when they're right, they're wrong.

ImpeccableArchitect · 2022-04-02T23:07:45+00:00

That was an interesting read. The thing is, men are not emotionally stunted defective women, and trying to make us act the way they want usually backfires; i would give as an example will smiths brain fart at the oscars. Viewing male culture, bonding, and friendship through an intersectional feminist lens is guaranteed to fail, but at least this person has seen another viewpoint that many women never get to see. It would be kinda cool if he actually got it and explained it to them, but seems unlikely, due to aforementioned feminist lens. As for the casual racism, i have no words.

bluechair01 · 2022-04-03T05:21:02+00:00

"Wait, could men actually face oppression in society? Could they be mutually shunned as a whole? Maybe this is what its like to be a ma- oh wait I'm trans! That means all my problems come from transphobia, not from misandry!"

I no longer feel pity for these people

BigDudBoy · 2022-04-05T06:27:31+00:00

It's cool to see it being acknowledged but I feel like there's such a hyper focus on "male loneliness" that it ignores other male issues (this goes for the post as well as society in general).

Perpetual_Question · 2022-04-02T11:50:33+00:00

I've seen lots of women call male friendships gay, and I've rarely seen men calling male friendships gay. If anyone is making male camaraderie taboo, it's women.

talus_slope · 2022-04-02T20:32:39+00:00

So a woman pretends to be a man, discovers that men's emotional world is different from that of women, and blames men for this "flaw" -- as opposed to concluding women are too emotionally needy.

She could have skipped the whole "pretending to be a man" part and gone straight to blaming men. It's women's default mode, anyway.

And, of course, "white imperialism".

jonah9247 · 2022-04-02T20:47:23+00:00

I mean…. That’s a she, and no matter how much she wants to be a he, she never will be. She will never know what’s it like to be a he, not mentally nor physically. I don’t know where she got the idea that guys don’t have guy friends outside of war… but the entire time I was reading her thread all I could hear was a woman speaking, not a man.

Space_Exploring7_6 · 2022-04-02T13:13:59+00:00

[permanently deleted]

shit-zen-giggles · 2022-04-02T06:22:36+00:00

extremely valuable reference. Saved and bookmarked. Thank you so much for sharing!

Traditional-Scratch5 · 2022-04-02T11:28:38+00:00

Men need to stick out for each other if no one else will

For us

slightlyabrasive · 2022-04-02T14:29:14+00:00

Not to promote a sense of toxic masculinity but simply bring a counter point. I personally sort of like the disconnect and wish everyone was slightly more disconnected. I think it would actually bring about more harmony and we would have fewer laws based on empathy and more on utilitarian design.

It just seems to me the more connected people are the easier it is for them to pulled into extremist groups.

Professional_Key4166 · 2022-04-02T06:22:25+00:00

It's not so bad once you harden your heart and learn how to be stoic.

FatherOfLights88 · 2022-04-02T09:05:01+00:00

But the biggest privilege this person still has, that the vast majority of men lack... is the emotional language to articulate what's going on. Not just the contrast in privilege, but an ability to articulate it.

Eedoryeong · 2022-04-02T09:07:46+00:00

I dont really get this complaint of his. I experience camaraderie with other males all the time, although from which nation/region is important. Just today I went hiking alone along a photogenic trail and all day I was meeting lots of nice people, many of them men.

Broadly speaking, my own experience is Europeans and Asians yes (as in easily socializing) Americans no. I'd like it to be different. I was in the US for a few years and met awesome people. But outside the US it's different. I'm not starting a revolution of some sort here, just making an observation of what my experience has shown me thus far. If I had to speculate I'd hazard a guess the machismo is still a thing. But now I'm just spitballing.

selitos · 2022-04-02T13:36:21+00:00

I have a couple thoughts:

The aloofness they experienced may have been due to gender transition and trans identity in addition to being simply male.
the lack of socialization men experience is accurate but I place blame on the outlawing of male spaces.
men aren't going to strike up friendly conversation at the grocery store with other men like women do but that doesn't mean they can't be close and vulnerable with each other. They just need outlets to make friends and have company of other men and they aren't going to open up until they trust the other person. They aren't as immediately trusting with other men as women are with other women.

Getdeded · 2022-04-02T11:58:01+00:00

Becoming a trans man seems like such a bad idea. I feel like both gay men and straight women are happier. Also women make terrible long term friends, sure they’re there for you in a surface level in public. Male friendship runs deep

Traditional-Scratch5 · 2022-04-02T11:32:34+00:00

For everyone bashing on the trans person

This is a shock to their system, they're trying to find a reason like "white imperialism" because that's all they know. They are struggling to explain it, since they were a woman they never knew what it's like and now they are basically having their world torn down

jazzcomplete · 2022-04-02T17:56:47+00:00

Sounds like a chick thinking about things too much

Irys-likethe-Eye · 2022-04-02T23:23:59+00:00

I have to be honest, as a woman it is so hard to read the comments that are always in this subreddit. There is so much vitriol for women, even when one has gone through enormous effort to shed that title to become the man they thought they were supposed to be from the beginning and admit to the world that holy shit there are things that are really hard. And I thought I understood but I really didn't. And maybe you think you really understand too but let me tell you the things I really noticed in such a short time!

I really thought, despite some of the wording, that this was an insightful and condensed view from somebody who has an eye through both lenses. Women are very aware of a lot of the strangely gendered behavioral stereotypes that are put on boys and girls from a young age. I remember watching certain sensitivities systematically ground out of boys my age growing up because they didn't want to be a Feefee-lala did they? That's a girl thing, don't do that. What are you a little girl? Honestly I think it was detrimental to boys and girls because you're 1: telling any girl in the vicinity that they are inherently lesser and 2: taking from the boys various tools that at a young age that will help them navigate the greater world as they grow and stunting their inherent need to express themselves.

Why are so many guys on here so angry that a person who has in their own words " unwillingly worn an armor" to protect themselves expressing how it feels to see that shield wall of wariness now presented against them even though they personally know that they aren't a threat? Why so angry that a person whom has formerly been encouraged to be emotionally honest and earnest with others because what's better and more normal than to have a girlgroup of friends? (Which can be emotionally draining btw, would not suggest) is now finding exactly how differently the gendered styles of childrearing produces the adults we interact with, since they got one but are dealing with the expectations now, of the other?

This site is so hard to read sometimes and really hold on to the fact that I think there are viable reasons to be concerned with the "men's rights" issues that are portrayed here. That it's not just a vast spread of rampant hatred against women and echo chamber of blame.

I believe there are issues concerning men's rights, no doubt. Just as there are ones concerning women's rights. There are often knee jerk decisions made that simply don't make sense, and that is unfortunately because history has given us enough examples regarding any given situation, that people of both genders just shrug and say well, it happened like that before so it's probably the case now and this is the answer to the problem we guess. We are getting there, it's just messy because there are so freaking many of us! There are just so many details, it takes time.

the_authoring · 2022-04-02T22:58:30+00:00

Males have to compete for an opportunity to exist and procreate. Females will see males as predators/hunters because they are; human females have evolved to sense the risk of such threats at a primal evolutionary level (creep factor); as have males in different ways because at a primal level, there is always the promise of violence between males for crossing boundaries.

It is not hard to understand when you take into account evolutionary psychology. Human's are animals, strip away all the customs, rules, ideals, and platitudes, you have an animal (male) that has to prove he has a right to exist against other animals (males) who are doing the same for the same limited resources (females) who are inherently (evolutionary) predisposed to be selective against creepy males.

In general, in any species that is selective, if a female sees a male as weak, he is deselected out of the gene pool for a better (strong) male. Humans are no different.

Idealists just want to pretend humans are not animals by asserting social constructs are fundamentally independent of biological underpinnings, when it is not. Certain social construct (like sports, awards, laws, religion, etc.) exist because they have proven over time to regulate the animal instincts into something constructive instead of something destructive (war, crime, etc. ).

Male humans will go to war for access to mates, that is nature; feelings be damned, nature doesn't care. It is a cold hard mechanic burned deep in reptile brain over millions of years of evolution.

Humans however are smart and can design solutions; as such, we have sports and competition to regulate the violence of males into something that a replacement for actual war. That is the sad fact of what the reptile brains commands us to feel as it relates to being "a real man", a victim of evolutionary psychology that says "he is inherently dangerous, but let's see if he is dangerous in a good way (against tigers, etc.) or if he has other value (provider)."

As soon as people stop pretending humans are not animals with animal instincts the better we will all be. no amount of social engineering will undo what is written into our genes.

ThePlasticSpastic · 2022-04-26T17:03:10+00:00

Keep in mind, this was posted to Imgur, where, if you don't mention White Imperialism/ racism/ sexism, you reflexively get downvoted to a crisp.

Title	Found this crossposted to Imgur - thoughts? (A post from a trans person on now being male)
Author	Wyvn_Dragongarnet
Upvotes	374
Comments	116
Date	April 1, 2022 11:00 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/tu447i/found_this_crossposted_to_imgur_thoughts_a_post/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/found-this-crossposted-to-imgur-thoughts-a-post.1109033 https://theredarchive.com/post/1109033

Comments