How do you all feel about this post? c/ : educating.misogynists via IG

a-man-from-earth · 2023-02-19T23:38:53+00:00

Using math to lie. Disgusting.

Largest_Half · 2023-02-20T00:42:15+00:00

"It is better to risk saving a guilty person than to condemn an innocent one.” — Voltaire

sorebum405 · 2023-02-20T00:21:18+00:00

There is no way to really know what the actual rate of false rape accusations is.Even when you look at reported rapes.In a majority of cases there is simply not enough evidence to prove the allegations true or false.This poster is being misleading by suggesting that the unfounded cases are counted as false allegations.That is simply not true,they are not counted as true or false.

Additionally,this does not even count false allegations that are not reported to the police,but ones that are made on social media or elsewhere.These accusation can still be damaging enough to ruin a man's life.Which is what men are concerned about.

The fact that it is so easy to make a false allegation that can ruin a man's life.The social consequences of a false accusations are damaging enough to drive men to commit suicide.I gave examples of this in point #5 of this post.

This is the real problem.The shift in the court of public opinion to view men as guilty until proven innocent rather then the opposite.This is a much bigger problem then feminist make it out to be, because even the fact that a woman possess that kind of power to ruin a man's life because of the strong social stigma of a rape accusation whether true or false, creates a power imbalance in favor of women.

Think about how many men can be coerced into doing something they don't want to for a woman because of the threat of a false rape accusation.All men are really asking for is a fair trial.

phoenician_anarchist · 2023-02-20T03:14:59+00:00

Why do images of text exist? I just want to copy/paste text, damn it! I'm too old for this shit #textlivesmatter #texterasure

TL;DR big claims, no citations; can't do maths; we all know it's bollocks.

FBI data (pdf)

Slide 1. "Scarcity"

This is just more of the usual manipulation of definitions, data, and statistics that is always used to discredit any pushback.

Multiple mentions of "evidence" and "research", yet not a single source linked.

Based on statistics from the organisation Rape Crisis

This is a conflict of interest, a rape charity is in it's best interests to inflate the numbers and manipulate statistics. It's no different to if the police were to downplay the prevalence, and no-one would have a problem calling that out, would they?

only 1 in 100 rapes were reported

How can we know how many rapes were unreported? They are, by definition, unreported. Now, you might say "oh, but they mean not reported to the police", but then that opens a whole barrel of worms. Lying to the police has consequences (well, sometimes), where a potentially anonymous survey does not. Other research has shown that people are more likely to lie when they know (or strongly believe) there will be no consequences for doing so. In any case, we're discussing false reports to the police, so any non-police reporting is irrelevant to the discussion.

average false report rate of 4%

FBI says 8%, 2% was pulled out of some feminists arse. Taking an average of the two is disingenuous.

0.0004%

Someone can't do maths correctly. For one, 4% of 1% is 0.04%. Two, 0.04% is 1 in 2500.

Anyway, diluting the number like this assumes that every rape that has not been reported to the police is true. There is no reason to assume this (and, see above, good reason to assume the opposite).

Police often record assault cases as "unfounded" when it's difficult to attain sufficient evidence.

Citation fucking needed!

There is a big difference between the inability to demonstrate in court that an offence has happened and claiming that these cases are false.

Yes. That's why we don't do this. Otherwise every case that didn't return a verdict of "guilty" would be labelled as "unfounded".

the rates for false allegations of sexual violence are no higher than those reported in other types of crimes.

False. FBI says 8% for rape, compared to 2% for other crimes. (I believe this is the source for the 2-8% range that is often cited).

Slide 2.

More minimisation of the issue...

majority of false claims do not name an alleged perpetrator

and

they tend to be identified very early on in the investigative process

Tell that to Emmett Till, Mark Pearson, Brian Banks, Jian Ghomeshi,the Duke lacrosse team, the UVA frat party, whoever mattress girl accused...

And anyone else that I've missed.

Slide 3. "Truth"

believe survivors

Y'know, part of me thinks that they moved away from "victims" specifically because of this. A common comeback to "believe victims" was "but we don't know who the victim is yet".

#believeallwomen

create a space where other survivors can feel more comfortable coming forward

How about you stop telling them that no-one will believe them and that the conviction rate is so low? Do you think that might help?

nothing to joke about [...] very serious [...] can ruin the lives of innocent people

Didn't they used to deny this? ex. Trump still got elected, he "got away" with it...

unrealistic fear of being falsely accused

As opposed to the unrealistic fear of rapists hiding around every corner?

{the rest of the paragraph}

Heres why women are the real victims of false accusations...

iainmf · 2023-02-20T00:09:10+00:00

A Home office report I found trying to find the source, shows ( in table 4.2) 12% false allegations and an 8% conviction rate.

So we are left with a great deal of unknowns.

Anyone claiming to known the true number of false allegations is wrong.

Edit: In any case, even if there were zero false allegations, everyone has the right to due process and a fair trial.

Bojack35 · 2023-02-19T23:58:57+00:00

"Lies, damn lies and statistics"

What this post does is to take liberty with the fact the vast majority of sexual assault cases are no verdict, which it refers to as unfounded.

Those unfounded cases cannot be claimed to be all true or all false. We do not know is the only honest comment. Yet many will present all the unfounded as true to downplay false accusation, or indeed present them as all false to exaggerate it. Bad practice in either case. This post actually has its cake and eats it by portraying the unfounded as all true then also claiming unfounded wrongly inflate false accusations. It would be the same as someone presenting all the unfounded as false accusations to claim there are more false than true allegations.

Now to be clear, there are a lot of unreported sexual assaults and everyone should want victims to come forwards. There are also unreported false allegations (ie social defamation rather than legal action) and everyone should be against that.

I fully believe there are far more unrecorded sexual assaults than unrecorded false allegations, along with more recorded sexual assaults than recorded false allegations. I fully support taking all claims seriously and investigating thoroughly. But taking a claim seriously does not mean prosecuting without further evidence.

The reality is a lot of claims are one word against another and so will end up unfounded. While this is far from ideal, there is really no way around it while still requiring evidence to prosecute a crime. My concern with some of this rhetoric is the statistics they protest against are unavoidable unless we prosecute based purely on allegation. Trying to minimise the existence of false claims is paving the way for prosecuting without evidence.

TurbulentFlow7145 · 2023-02-20T02:13:53+00:00

Classic manipulative tactics trying to downplay the harm caused to the victims. They’d rather watch a 100 innocent men burn then let 1 guilty man go.

Punder_man · 2023-02-20T05:42:54+00:00

The 'Truth' is that they want us so desperately to believe in the "False Accusations are actually extremely rare" rhetoric so that they can have an easier time pushing for more and more accusations of men.

I also love how they continue to minimize the effects False Accusations can have on men, their families, relationships and their entire social life.IF they cared at all about making sure that actual victims aren't impacted then they should be supportive of holding women who have been found conclusively to have lied about a man raping / sexually assaulting her.

But instead they double down on the "We can't punish women who lie because that would scare actual victims from coming forward!!"

Although, given the overall opinion that feminism seems to have towards men and how men are constantly blamed for everything / accused of being sexual predators in training.. It wouldn't surprise me if many feminists believe that False Accusations of Rape can not happen because in their minds ALL men are sexual predators and thus all men are guilty.

What's really amazing to me is that when men who have seen other men get shredded through our criminal justice system and the court of public opinion over a false accusation put systems in place to minimize their chances of being falsely accused these same feminists start complaining about 'Misogyny' because men no longer want to mentor women in businesses or refuse to be alone with them.

Men who suffer through false accusations and even end up in jail get at best a clap on the shoulder from the justice system and told "We're sorry you went to jail on a false accusation but chin up eh bud? at least you're free now right?"

When it comes to light that a man was sent to jail on a false accusation he gets no compensation from the courts / police / prosecutor getting it wrong.He doesn't have his false accusation removed stricken from the public record and he often will continue to face stigma from people in society who believe that he is absolutely guilty.

But then again.. saying anything which does not confirm with the dogma / status quo pushed by Feminism makes me a misogynist or something apparently..

Edit:
If Feminists cared at all about men who do suffer through False Accusations, then why don't they support having both sides names suppressed until the end of the trial?
That way if during the trial it comes out that the woman made a false accusation the man can have his name suppressed and not face the ramifications of a false accusation?

The reason is because that doesn't fit in with the lynch mob style of justice proposed by #MeToo Cancel Culture Club the (CCC) if you will..

TheSoviet_Onion · 2023-02-20T13:37:20+00:00

Same feminists who use estimates to count the amount of SA seem to generally only count false accusations that went to court.

aigars2 · 2023-02-20T05:29:49+00:00

It's kind of an insult. I'll use simple analogy. For a split second assume these stats are true. Just because theft is more common how exactly that makes murder less relevant? Because the victims are women?

Fantastic_Box3257 · 2023-02-20T09:04:13+00:00

As these women lie and treat men as expendables,it is time to leave the rope that is doing more harm than good ,make distance from women as far as possible,it is not safe ,you never know when someone accuses you just to have fun,and moment you are accused ,you are guilty

Most are not as rich,strong and have patience as Johnny depp to face these allegations and stand,this getting turn rather than a partner is not worth it

BeardedAvenger · 2023-02-20T11:26:34+00:00

Well, they certainly don't have the flair that The Tinmen have for getting their point across.

GaborFrame · 2023-02-20T19:16:07+00:00

This article casts some light on where these statistics come from.

TL;DR: The numbers you read are rough lower estimates. The true extent remains completely in the dark.

phoenician_anarchist · 2023-02-20T02:05:37+00:00

Anyone else remember the similar infographic and arguments from the Enliven Project?

I remember a young man made a short video on it back in the day (oh, how the time flies...) explaining how it was misleading and biased, but I can't remember his channel (not that it's likely to still exist at this point).

No_Kiwi_8192 · 2023-02-20T08:05:36+00:00

I consider this to be pointless. It's as if they think mens' rights advocates don't believe in rape charges. We do, we just also believe in due process.

biopsia · 2023-02-20T09:44:34+00:00

It happened to me several times, and everyone I know knows at least one case of false accusation. None of them were officially reported as false accusations, even though they clearly were. No, it is not so uncommon.

Remember the goal is not justice, it is to protect women (whatever 'women' means).

rahsoft · 2023-02-20T11:59:32+00:00

they use the word "suggests" rather than hard facts

ask mark pearson about his accuser or the men falsely accused by gemma beale.

ask the men who were raped why they were denied support.

ask the children raped by women why they dont get support

because we play the game of rape is gendered...

elebrin · 2023-02-20T13:53:07+00:00

I am not against the concept of believing survivors, but there is something that needs to be taken into account.

We have a standard of innocent until proven guilty, and there are specific legal tests to determine guilt. We have an imperfect, but mostly working, process in place. That process operates under the assumption that it's better to let the guilty go free than it is to wrongly imprison the innocent, and it's built around that idea (even if we don't always succeed at it).

When somebody says they have been sexually assaulted, raped, or something else happened, I am willing to believe exactly what I am hearing. They are telling me that they believe that the event occurred. I'm not going to deny their belief. Human memory, however, is fallible. We can't 100% trust it, and we need to test and verify claims.

Even if a case is an absolute slam dunk for the prosecutor and the criminal is admitting to what they did, a defense attorney is needed to ensure the proper procedure is followed and documented. A bad defense is worse than no defense in this case, including for the victims. Bad representation can get the trial thrown out and kick off a new trial. As a society, we want a strong, fair defense to question the evidence of the prosecution so that they have to irrefutably prove that the defendant committed the crime and there can be no question about that fact. This also ensures that law enforcement handles things like evidence collection and investigation properly (a lesson we learned during the OJ trial).

brianthalion · 2023-02-20T14:00:35+00:00

I'd say if you dont require police involvement in the statistic, atleast one in 5 men has been falsely accused in some sense of a secual assault or harassment. Whether it be the girl was drunk and cries rape, she had a boyfriend and got caught, after a bad breakup. Flirting in the workplace gone too far. It's truly terrifying.

BigBlackMan774 · 2023-02-20T15:37:57+00:00

False, it it about 46% of all 'rapes'

CawlinAlcarz · 2023-02-20T18:37:19+00:00

It's garbage. They're using an "estimated number" to "debunk" an objectively obtained number (which itself is not very well described in regard to how they arrive at it and I suspect is low anyway).

Even if we accept that the figure given for false accusations of ~4% is legitimately true and objectively correctly derived, it's absolute stupidity to conflate that with some estimate of some event that is loosely defined, not objectively described, nor based on anything observable at all.

Imagine if they used different statistics instead. Let's say they talk about bad traffic stops where the cop says they "smell marijuana" and use that as an excuse to harrass the driver, impound the car and so-on and so forth. Let's say that someone came up with a figure that 4% of these are completely bogus and are the result of cops trying to fill arrest quats.

What would you think if the police released a statement that said:

Yes, we know that ~4% of these arrests are totally bogus, but we estimate that we really COULD be arresting 100 people for every one that we arrest! So the reality is that the likelihood of you being falsely arrested is really 0.04%, the other 99.96% of the time the arrests are legit!!!

Codename-18 · 2023-02-20T18:40:30+00:00

1) "are found or suspected to be false" is entirely dependent on the rules of the game. And we all know that rules are designed to grant the maximum level of protection to women while simultaneously removing legal protection to men like "innocent until proven guilty". If Trigglypuff claimed she was raped by Leonardo DiCaprio no sane officer would send her back saying she's talking shit - he might think it - but no one would end his career by calling out a manifestly false accusation. 2) "Only 1/100 rapes are reported". And how would you know if they're not reported, bitch? Are you an omniscient God? GTFOH! 3) Men are fear mongers and if we don't stop this then they will stop believing women. The causal nexus is not proven.

There you go. Easy.

Not to mention that this is the "Not all X are like that" fallacy.

Terrorists bomb a place "not all [insert nationality or religion] are like that."
Scammers scam "not all [insert ethnicity] are like that."

Who TF cares? It takes ONE and your life is over.

PopularEquipment5357 · 2023-02-20T20:50:40+00:00

Even if you're a huge shut in and never talk to women who might falsely accuse you. There's still a possibility you have friends and family that do. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly do not want them to get dragged through mud.

Also, when we are talking about morals, we aren't talking about how often it happens. We are talking about right and wrong.

Women often make a huge deal about the complications that arise from forced births. Should we prioritize the baby in this case since only 24 women die out of 100,000 births which is roughly a 0.00024% chance.

Appropriate-Ant-6120 · 2023-02-20T21:20:07+00:00

Stupid, stupid, stupid. One false accusation is destroying life of accused and life of his family. I went through this. It was such a horrible act of an accuser, police and the Canadian system. We won in court but our lives has been changed. But we are just small statistics? So it's OK?

ApprehensiveMail8 · 2023-02-20T22:22:15+00:00

And where are all the female rapists on slide 5?

TheDubiaGuy · 2023-02-24T03:21:27+00:00

This doesn't mean these aren't problems, just because it's rare doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Just because we say it happens doesn't mean we say sexual harassment isn't an issue.

Frequent-throwAway · 2023-02-20T23:11:49+00:00

False accusations are actually very common. The safest thing to do is avoid all women. Written consent agreements and video record any acts. Lol...

[deleted] · 2023-02-20T13:22:52+00:00

Here’s a video all about it.

Yoramus · 2023-02-20T13:55:12+00:00

Even in their meaningless way of “measuring” the amount of false accusations they make mistakes in basic math that would make a fifth-grader fail their class (1% of 4% is 1 in 2500, not 1 in 250).

But that’s pointless because this is just meaningless, as said.

Ok_Seaworthiness9275 · 2023-02-20T14:16:42+00:00

A woman posting shit in a mens rights group?

jbuchan12 · 2023-02-21T00:01:05+00:00

I can get rid of this whole "truth" with one sentence. "False accusation" does not mean i went to the police and reported it. It means i said you did something you didn't do. I was falsely accussed and people took it into their own hands and tried to stab me. Would i be counted in these "truth" stats? How about Johnny Depp would he be counted?

ImSkymeR · 2023-02-22T19:22:00+00:00

She can't even do basic math

Title	How do you all feel about this post? c/ : educating.misogynists via IG
Author	theRayvenD
Upvotes	66
Comments	62
Date	February 19, 2023 11:23 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/116rafa/how_do_you_all_feel_about_this_post_c/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-do-you-all-feel-about-this-post-c.1152050 https://theredarchive.com/post/1152050

Comments

Slide 1. "Scarcity"

Slide 2.

Slide 3. "Truth"