Is the MensLib subreddit mostly run by women?

Glittering_Medium925 · 2021-12-10T04:34:55+00:00

I found this tool recently to find overlapping subreddits. I found out that the MensLib subreddit has a lot of overlap in women's subreddits. Which means...

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Well I think the problem is that those feminists probably don't feel like they can trust men and they attribute bad motivations to any guy that might want to run a feminist site. Individually they may have good or bad reasons to feel that way, but that is the reality.

In broad strokes.. they're seeing that there are men running lesbian sites/subreddits/etc for what they perceive to be bad faith reasons. They assume that the guy that is running the lesbian site is just a pervert scheming for a way to allow gay women to convene in a place that is convenient to him such that they might do lesbian shit together and he can jerk off to it or whatever. This may be an over-wrought example, but I'm sure you can agree that those dudes exist and that this shit happens, no? The fact that these dudes exist means that they have to give any guy who might want to run a feminist site the benefit of the doubt to consider using it. Most people wouldn't want to hangout with someone who they strongly suspect has hidden intentions, right?

Conversely, the guys in the menslib movement are mostly aligned with the motivations and goals of the feminist movement, so that whole hurdle of having to have the guys in the movement approve of the existence of a woman figurehead just goes away entirely. Most guys in the movement probably see the female leadership as being a validator.

This becomes divisive when people hold the whole feminist movement responsible for the actions and words of the craziest people on the fringes of the movement. This happens here too. It also happens in politics. Shit, it happens in sports. Its a big problem and it sucks. Even as I'm typing this, I started to get a lot more careful with my wording right when I got to the first sentence of the third paragraph where I mentioned that menslib is aligned with the goals of the feminist movement.. because I think I know how you all feel about feminism. I think a lot of the guys in here see the crazy shit that some of the fringes people in the feminist movement say and they feel unfairly attacked, which is totally understandable. I get it and that stuff pisses me off too. Its just unfortunate because I think the reality is that most people are going to make a good faith attempt to be fair and compassionate when you speak to them individually and try to recognize their humanity.

[–]Falandyszeus[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

but I'm sure you can agree that those dudes exist and that this shit happens, no?

For sure, maybe not exactly that, but there's definitely guys who'd support a cause they hate cause they think it improves their chances with the ladies. If memory serves there's been quite a few "male feminists" who turned out to be rather... Rapey... When it didn't work out for them.

Though that might also just be a case of acting pious to hide sins.

No doubt some dude would put in that effort for some "original content" rather than just going on the Hub and hitting the lesbian tag...

Most people wouldn't want to hangout with someone who they strongly suspect has hidden intentions, right?

Presumably not unless they went out of their way to do so. (giving the benefit of the doubt.)

menslib movement are mostly aligned with the motivations and goals of the feminist movement

The stated goal of it, of ensuring equality for women sure. What that means exactly, probably less so.

This becomes divisive when people hold the whole feminist movement responsible for the actions and words of the craziest people on the fringes of the movement

IMO why you need to gatekeep or distance yourself from extremists, so they don't end up spoiling your PR. Probably not entirely freely, but feels like themen's right groups distances themselves from crazies more clearly. (Though TBF that's probably largely to avoid being banned or censored, through association with misogynistic groups.)

At this point I was any kind of influential in the Feminist sphere. I'd have probably made a new term and tried to keep it free from crazies. (A full time job in itself!), Rather than trying to save the current ship. Would probably reduce the opposition from a lot of people who don't actually disagree with y'all, but oppose you on the belief that you're allied with people whom they absolutely do oppose gaining influence. Don't think there's enough goodwill towards the historical term of feminism, to justify fighting for it as moniker at the cost of extra opposition.

If you're flying a flag associated with pirates expect to be greeted with cannons!

because I think I know how you all feel about feminism

Can't speak for others, but not be far off in my case. I'm all for equality, but feminism as a term is tainted to me. Even if someone is arguing for something I agree with, if they associate with feminism, I'm not free from the suspicion that something else I don't like, won't soon follow.

most people are going to make a good faith attempt to be fair and compassionate when you speak to them individually and try to recognize their humanity.

I'd hope so. If they can recognize why the opposition believes something too. maybe we might just get somewhere! (If one dares be so optimistic.)

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True. They are infiltrating everywhere man. There is always SIMP to support them. We should be strong in our opinion and what we need. Do not let them convince your mind. We need proper private space to discuss our problems. Egalitarianism is the balance. In the name Feminism, they consume every progressive liberal movment under that.

These toxic SIMPs Men should realise

Feminism doesn't give a f**k aby men.

Feminism doesn’t help men in anyway.

Its no use for men, feminism fights only for women's and their problems. But modern day feminism taking it another lvl for supremacy.

If history has taught us anything. Men should only fight for their own rights. U can't expect someone/other moment to fight for ur problems.

What these most feminists trying to do is nothing but superiority, trying to change the society for their convenience. They think themselves are centre of world, they always expecting a special treatment. Heading towards matriarchy is the worst thing just like patriarchy.

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And both ignore the same issues, and just try to grab more power rather than standing up for men's rights.

Feminism is based on left-wing ideology, left-wing ideology is based on romanticism philosophy, a core idea of which is that reality and data can be disregarded to further a chosen narrative.

This makes them both argue with one another based purely on semantics, and ignore a methodical yet slower and less polarising approach of taking account of reality -> making an accurate model of it and accurately predicting cause and effect -> use that + other data to make changes that create a long term stable mutually re-enforcing relationships and positive feedback loops.

Dissregard for an approach that is almost guaranteed to be beneficial in favour of a fast and more polarising one that's has a probability of success at effectively 0, but gives them power is done for the sake of getting that power, not solving the issue.

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There are core beliefs that make them [insert ideology], differences between the groups in different parts of the world notwithstanding. The point is you cannot build something good on a bad foundation.

Read up on people like Robespierre and who inspired them.

If all they wanted was better conditions for workers the "reign of terror", and a lot of executions would be unnecessary. If you take a deeper look at Louis 16th he tried to do the same without the bloodshed but didn't have enough political power to accomplish it, and was executed for being the king, not on merit of his action. This demonstrates that it's not about workers rights, but about power, making it a lie by omission. This aspect hasn't changed. The one who actually helped the workers in France around that time was Napoleon, rather than the various left-wing factions.

[–]TexNicknor -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

In politics solid foundations are only an illusion, what was considered left now is considered right. Look at the English Parliament for example: Wiggs (the liberist party) was considered the left while the Tories (feudal system, nobility) was right wing. After some decades the Tories were not for feudal system anymore and adopted the Wiggs ideology of liberism and the Labourist (something similar to socialism) party took the place in the left wing. I personally don’t like and am not a fan of any politic leader, because they are all often rotten and not good people in general, but I prefer to vote for leftist parties for some principal reasons: 1 I’m an atheist and dislike strongly any presence of religion in politics (when you find a right wing party that doesn’t do this call me) 2 I trust the scientific method more than any religion and person and the right wing instead is taking pseudoscientific positions 3 While feminists don’t sustain males, tradcons don’t do it neither. They just want the conservative idea of what a family, a male or a female is, they don’t care about your grief in any way, 4 I don’t care about gay, trans and any LGBT+ member since their existence doesn’t threat mine in any way, 5 I agree that we must regulate immigration, but that alone isn’t enough. We need to help the countries from where these immigrants come from, because solving their problem will reduce by a lot the immigration. So as you see to me the right isn’t the right choice for very practical reasons. Not “philosofical romanticism” of my balls

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It is on an ideology level not really anything in terms of moderation. It's less to castigate either of the subs, and more to point out that your actions do not lead to where you say you want to go. (years ago I considered myself to be on the left, even feminist, then started to look at things deeper and now want to help others find what I found, saving others at least some of the suffering along the way.)

The main philosophical framework underpinning it, namely acceptance of romanticism philosophy as a basis for your own. When you accept or align with a philosophy you have to accept the base assumptions of that ideology as fact, because challenging them creates a whole new philosophy.

One of the things defining features of romanticism is that the narrative is more important than fact, which in later philosophical movements (such as left-wing philosophy) was expanded in to collectivism and resulted in feminism. Reliance on accurate data over the narrative is what the people that created left-wing ideology discarded as a "right-wing" value.

To tackle the issues with men's rights and women's rights a more flexible and individually adjustable framework is necessary than either left-wing or right-wing allow for. That's my point.

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Sorry, but that is factually incorrect. If you go through the philosophy of the founders of it they were inspired by romanticism. In early sources the left are also reffered to as "sons of Voltaire". One of the noteworthy points inherited by left from romanticism is that lies that help their narrative effectively swindling people are considered good, which is antithetical to classical liberalism as that is infringing on the liberty of informed choice.

Individual rights, equal treatment under the law, and all that.

Were one of the first things thrown out by the original left-wing, because they were valued by their opposition.

This can be seen in the rhetoric of the French revolutionaries against King Louis 16th, who tried to do what the revolutionaries claimed to want. If their claims aligned with their actions having the support of the king would make their job a lot easier, but wouldn't result in them gaining as much power as they did by executing him, and during the "reign of terror" tonnes of people who fought on the same side as them during the revolution. This pattern can be seen at various stages in all movements based on that philosophy, such as fascism, feminism and so on. There are many more examples of this even extremely recently.

If they were founded on classical liberalism they would not have produced the Jacobins, the guys responsible for a genocide known as "the reign of terror" - the thing where we get the word terrorism from.

Another tactic you can recognise is calling everyone they disagree with right-wing and worthy only of hatred.

My biggest gripe is not the position itself, but a lack of knowledge of what people support and that they support horrible people and actions. Using different logic I aggree with a lot of the sentiment, and only the sentiment, as I see massive gaps and factual inconsistencies in the left's logic and actions. The key difference is I have no desire for power only a desire to do research and educate people in away that would profoundly make all of our lifes better, but not at the expense of someone else.

(there's reasons why I don't support conservatives either, but that's a topic for another day)

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Disconnected from reality and disregard for critical aspects. This results in deception through a lack of expertise. There is a reason why you should always ask your MD about health decisions.

A problem of scalability. On a small scale (~100 people) the system is easy to tailor to mostly suit everyone, and it is easy to see the benefits of small personal sacrifices because you run in to the beneficiaries of them daily and care about them.

On a large scale (1000 +) it is impossible to taylor things to suit everyone well, requiring larger personal sacrifices and having no feedback and interest in the wellbeing of the beneficiaries of those sacrifices. This incentivises crime, and turns everything in to an s hole.

To run each specialised and vastly different skillets are required to the point where skills and strategies helpful in one are harmful in the other.

In data analysis this is the problem of undefiting and overfitting. If you taylor your model too much to the data it becomes useless (in human societies - unworkable), if you use a too simple model it stops accurately reflecting the data.

The basis for left-wing philosophy is romanticism, which promotes the oversimplification/lack of nuance of things as that results in an easier to digest narrative. That lack of nuance in a system with a large number of people stacks up to the point of being actively harmful.

Note: I have spent a lot of time examining this, and posting effectively a book to everyone on each subject is simply not how human interaction works.

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Tbh I dont care who runs what, as long as I can talk about mens issues and not be fucking yelled at for embracing manliness in my day to day life, and not hate myself for doing it.

I try so hard to get along in menslib but nobody ever replies to anything I say, even though its basically what they're all saying, or; As an aussie I am completely outside of the american politisphere right? I get so turned away from the sub because there are so many topics conflating being a republican with having toxic masculinity, its totally political there and it baffles me why is it like that? WHY?

Its literally a rule to be a bootlicker for feminism, fuck feminism, I'm an egalitarian, everybody is equal with their own unique struggles.

Then on top of all that, people give you shit for talking here, because this is the only place not politicized, but its becoming that way by proxy, because if you aren't politicized it must be because the sub is 'right wing' and racist or some shit.

Fuck I am so tired of not being able to talk about shit men go through, sick of being told that being manly is wrong. I love to open up about my feelings, its just all so pointless now.

I guess I hate saying that anyone one community is wrong for me, but day after day menslib excludes me like I don't exist. just.. fuck man

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So, I don't like that you're being downvoted and sorry for that, downvotes are really supposed to be only for bad faith trolls "hey why murder bad? PROVE IT" not honest disagreements, I think you're expressing honest disagreement here.

Not gonna lie I think a lot of men in this sub Reddit are just scared of women.

Why would we hate or fear the other half of our humanity? the group that gave birth to us and cared for us when we were voiceless and helpless? I don't know if you're doing it intentionally, but this is exactly the sort of thing that pushes people's buttons about feminism and the identity left in general, "oh, you diagree? you're a bigot sweety" nah dude/girl I just think your opinions suck, I regularly disagree passionately with my friends and family, it's not a big deal.

(notice how I said 'identity left', I'm a leftist myself but I don't think American leftism is a serious ideology who have anything useful to say)

This post is straight up conspiracy

Not all conspiracies are wrong or unjustified, this post is supported by data, overlapping subreddits is a very useful lens to see through, it tells you the average dominant opinions on a certain subreddit.

anything said outside of these guys echo chamber is down voted deeply

It's an unfortunate way of how reddit works, it's bad but all subreddits have something like that.

MEN DO SUFFER in society just as women which women do commonly talk about whether it’s believed or not

Nobody here is against women talking about men's rights, this is something celebrated and loved in men's rights. See my post history, my latest post is asking about Karen Straughan, a well known men's rights advocate who I adore and take as a role model.

Our problem is mainly hypocritical damage control, the subs mentioned are hardly men's best friends, when the same people who say "misandry doesn't exist" is suddenly overlapping with a sub ostensibly about men's right this is very suspicious. We're not born yesterday. This sub is damage control for feminism, it represent a feminist's ideal men's right movement : submissive, harmless, doesn't make much fuss, ideally doesn't actually talk about cis straight men's (90% of men) issues that much, and most importantly bows to feminism and never criticizes it for anything.

some men would rather blame women and demonize them for absolutely no reason.

Hmm no reason at all? just out of nowhere? we woke up today and just chose violence?

[–]Glittering_Medium925 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wildpineapple77 -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Horny20yrold 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Clearly I don’t hate men or think they don’t have issues

I never accused you of that, I assumed good faith and replied to your statements accordingly.

demonizing women makes you just as bad as the women we complain about

Agreed, but how I'm demonizing women with "feminists are bad and men-hating"? do you think that feminism is synonymous with women?

the use of the word we and us it very toxic

Why, "we" just referred to people on this subreddit, I don't claim to speak for all MRAs.

have an open dialog about how both sides feel about things without assuming one or the other is against you

Ok, what about when one side systematically silences the other, smears them with insults, claim they are all misogynistic shooters who hate women, stages demonstrations to get the documentary that discuss their issues banned. Do you still converse with that side assuming they will hear you?

if you feel like someone isn’t listening respectfully end the convo because that one person isn’t worth your breath and there will be someone else open minded enough to hear your side.

Isn't that exactly what they are doing? people identified the subreddit mentioned as highly overlapping with feminist subs, feminists are well known for not listening respectfully to men's issues, the user posting it was basically saying "don't engage, it's a waste of time".

[–]wildpineapple77 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You did exactly what I said you would, the us vs them mentality, the blaming women for all gendered issues, and saying “why try to have a dialog when women are mean”. The reality of this is that both men and women rights activists includes haters of one or the other and it’s best just to not engage with them and have conversations only with those willing to listen. It’s disingenuous to assume that all women’s rights activist aren’t willing for a conversation when you are speaking to one, I am sharing experiences and disagreements without insults. You don’t see me telling you that ALL men hate women. Even if you bring up my comment criticizing the subreddit I’m saying the subreddit not all mens rights activists as I have spoken to many. also feel like you are definitely straw manning in a lot of ways, I would say yeah generalizing all feminists as man haters is disingenuous and not a great generalization and I don’t think hating men is a women only thing and clearly you know that. I think that assuming all feminists are bad and out to get you proves that you aren’t actually interested in dialog or research rather you just want to fear monger. Especially since you have justified your subreddits bad behavior by saying “well some women do it so it’s okay when we do it

[–]Horny20yrold 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It seems to me that your experience of feminism is different than mine, let's just agree to disagree on the issue.

>I think that assuming all feminists are bad and out to get you proves that you aren’t actually interested in dialog or research

Ok, let's say I will read one post of menslib and revaluate my view on the sub based on it, what is this post ?

> It’s disingenuous to assume that all women’s rights activist aren’t willing for a conversation when you are speaking to one

I didn't say women's rights activists, I said feminists. I see no problem whatsoever with advocating for women and I don't see why you took that from my statments.

The mainstream of feminism long ago abandoned it's ostensible "We don't hate men" cover. But, again, let's say I'm wildly wrong on all of this. What sources or people you think are good representatives of feminism ?

[–]wildpineapple77 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Traditional_Job2467 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]neumodischanmassend -58 points-57 points-56 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mendoiiiy 40 points41 points42 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bara-enthusiast 43 points44 points45 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[+]neumodischanmassend -39 points-38 points-37 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bara-enthusiast 28 points29 points30 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[+]neumodischanmassend -35 points-34 points-33 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bara-enthusiast 24 points25 points26 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]neumodischanmassend -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatOneCrusader1 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]neumodischanmassend -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Traditional_Job2467 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]neumodischanmassend -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+]TipiTapi -13 points-12 points-11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Traditional_Job2467 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]EasyasACAB -12 points-11 points-10 points 4 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

Not gonna lie I think a lot of men in this sub Reddit are just scared of women.

If we use the same tool that the OP used, we can see that you are absolutely correct.

33.09 pussypassdenied
31.02 mgtow
22.85 trueunpopularopinion
21.49 purplepilldebate
20.90 socialjusticeinaction
17.98 kotakuinaction
16.13 tumblrinaction

Notice how the big overlap this sub has is with straight up women-hating subs and subs devoted to the alt-right culture war. The people in this sub aren't really interested in men's issues, they spend more time blaming feminism and leftists for their problems rather than actually examining gender issues.

The men in this sub claim feminists and men who listen to them are "the enemy" and can't even express what they are supposed to be "the enemy" of, exactly. They just hate women and their male allies first, and then everything else gets worked in after that.

It's all vague reactionary bullshit where feminsm is somehow hurting men. They can't tell you how, just they they are "the enemy" and men who listen to them are "enemy collaborators". It's no wonder they love pussypassdenied and MGTOW and hate women.

One user below you said

"We don't hate women, we hate feminists"

But they also go out of their way to defend domestic abusers because the target was a woman so it kinda seems like the men here hate women.

Literally. One hit and he is a horrible abuser. Give me a break. And ignoring the fact she grabbed him first.

That's the kind of post history the men here have. They will say they don't hate women, but odds are they've said something pretty fucking heinous about women not too long ago. But it's ok, because the women they hate are "feminists", probably.

[–]Horny20yrold 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The men in this sub claim feminists and men who listen to them are "the enemy" and can't even express what they are supposed to be "the enemy" of, exactly

Oh, it's very easy to say how feminists are enemies of men's rights, maybe you're just not listening good enough? Feminists have :

Opposed and campaigned against domestic abuse shelters for men
Opposed and campaigned against ending male circumcision
Opposed and campaigned against draft equality
Crafted an extremely biased way of viewing domestic abuse that views men as primarily abusers and takes the side of women first and asks questions later (Duluth model)
Made the court system biased against men when it comes to divorce settlements and custody
Backlashed against the one mainstream non-hitpiece Men's Rights documentary "Red Pill", made by a feminist (former really, after all the abuse and bad vitriol she got from them for daring to listen to men). They fought violently to cancel its screenings, including organizing demonstrations and acts of sabotage. (e.g. pulling false fire alarms in theaters to force evacuations)

So really, it's hilarious to me you claim you don't know why MRAs view feminists as enemies. I will just assume good faith and say that people on this subreddit or other MRAs you talked too never properly explained why they hate feminists, it happens, sometimes people are too caught up in their own bubble to step out and coherently explain to someone their motivations.

The people in this sub aren't really interested in men's issues

Ok, glad you know my motivations better than me.

they spend more time blaming feminism

Yeah, it's really unreasonable that I blame a supramicist movement that hates the digestive bacteria in my guts for the misandry and problems men face.

and leftists for their problems rather than actually examining gender issues.

Can you please not drag leftism into this? the bullshit identity left that feminism hijacked can be a nice obedient tool for corporations and the state but it must admit that nobody takes what they say or do as real or useful.

But they also go out of their way to defend domestic abusers because the target was a woman so it kinda seems like the men here hate women

Wanna see what I can unearth from the post histories of people at men's. lib?

[–]ThatOneCrusader1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]wildpineapple77 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatOneCrusader1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]wildpineapple77 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThatOneCrusader1 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]wildpineapple77 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]michaelpaoli -16 points-15 points-14 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]EasyasACAB -15 points-14 points-13 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Drippinice 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]210101210 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ModsAreThoughtCops 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ZangryGrapes -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]zellegion 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]watches_the_world -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ciceros_Assassin -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Is the MensLib subreddit mostly run by women?
Author	Glittering_Medium925
Upvotes	465
Comments	211
Date	December 10, 2021 4:34 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/rd0bgd/is_the_menslib_subreddit_mostly_run_by_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-the-menslib-subreddit-mostly-run-by-women.1087672 https://theredarchive.com/post/1087672

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