/u/sillymod has removed a thread about a German woman who was find 24,000 Euro for a false rape report. Removal was because, despite the court's finding, sillymod independently determined it wasn't a false rape accusation.

ber_throwaway · 2016-07-06T10:24:50+00:00

Hm. I've been lurking for a while here now and I think people have a very weird impression about this court case because all information they get is from feminist journalists.

First and foremost: It is extremely, extraordinary rare that a German prosecutor prosecutes false rape accusations. Like in all other western/feminist countries. (Mostly because the "we don't want to keep victims from filing reports" bullshit, an argument the lawyers of Lohfink are using as well.)

The prosecutor filed for a "Strafbefehl" against her, which was issued by a judge. A Strafbefehl (I don't know if the translation penalty order fits in the juridicial sense) can be issued for crimes that come with less than a year probation as a punishment and the crime doesn't have to be proofed "beyond reasonable doubt", all you need is "strong suspicion". Of course you can dissent to such an act, which Lohfink did, and you will get a criminal trial.

That being said, it is extremely unlikely, that the prosecutor made any mistake here. In the eye of the law she is innocent until proven guilty. But the prosecutor (a woman btw) has more than 10 hours of video as evidence and if there was even the slightes chance, that a rape took place in these 10 hours, the prosecutor would have never filed for anything.

From the development of the trial it seems like the judge tends to the side of the prosecutor so far. She (yes, the judge is a woman as well) seems to be pretty "pissed" by the behavior of Lohfink and her lawyers who didn't bring any new evidence and just put up a show with her crying and having (faked..) nervous breakdowns.

About the "no" and "stop": It is very clear from the surrounding material, that these words referred to the filming. She was actively and enthusiastically (isn't this the new standard in the US?) having sex with both men. And, as I said, there is film material for hours where they are eating together, drinking, having sex, running around nude. And there is not the slightest amount of violence or anything that points to a rape.

What happens was this:

Two slimeballs have sex with a somewhat prominent bimbo.
The slimeballs try to sell their sex tape with her (which is repulsive and imho could be punished by jail, they had to pay a fine for that).
She found out, her lawyers made a civil lawsuit to prohibit distribution, in this document her lawyers talked about "consensual sex".
Later she claims she was raped and doesn't remember anything, she claims she was drugged.
The prosecutor, apparently pissed by false rape accusations at this point (there was a rape case a few month before in Berlin btw., where someone could prove he was innocent because he secretly filmed. The judge meant afterwards he was on his way to convict him and that he was shocked that a woman could lie to him like this. The defendant waited for the trial to begin before he showed the video.) sends the video to an expert who should check if it was possible that she was drugged.
The expert is 100% sure that she wasn't drugged or extremely drunk. (Which every normal person could testify as well, but an expert is an expert..)
The prosecutor files for a Strafbefehl and we are where we are now.

German government just decided to tighten the sexual crime legislation to make it even more easy for women to cry rape. This was pushed by feminists as well as "conservatives" (to prevent our white girls from getting raped by the muslims..) under the slogan "No means No". The feminists jumped on the case of Lohfink to show how harsh the German laws are to "rape victims". Of course that's complete bullshit and even under the new laws she would not have been raped. The superior of all of Berlin prosecutors, who is pushing for these idiot laws as well, is btw. also convinced, that his subordinate prosecutor did everything correctly.

What is sad and funny at the same time, it seems to me, that the lawyers of her don't give a flying fuck. They know the case is bullshit and they just try to profit from being in the public. One of them coincidentally just published a book which he promoted together with Lohfink. She doesn't seem to recognize this but she doesn't seem to a smart cookie anyway.

It is interesting how many anti-feminists and/or mens rights advocates believe the bullshit the media is writing about this case. Germany is just like any other western country: Falsely accuse somebody of rape and you will get a "victim advocate" and all the comfort you dream about. They find out you lied? Very little chance they will prosecute you for it. If they will (like this case), you can be sure, feminists will demonstrate for your right to falsely accuse.

Being falsely accused of rape? We will arrest you in front of your co-workers, put you in pre-trial custody and after months or years of investigation, after you've lost your job and paid thousands for lawyers and expert witnesses (which the judge isn't obligated to hear) you can be happy if they don't throw you in prison for ten years.

Don't believe the lies.

tl;dr: There is a high chance she will get convicted, which is totally fair and just. Germany isn't a rape friendly Nazi state where poor wymenz are convicted for reporting rape. Lohfink is just an ugly person who takes no responsibility for her own actions.

edit1:: Fixed a grammar mistake (still a lot left :D) and some typos after I read my rant again. ;)

edit2:: Although I haven't participated here until now I don't think it's fair to throw the moderators and the sub under the bus because one moderator got one thing wrong. I've been reading here for a long time and AFAIK they've been fair and pretty laissez-faire about submitted content.

aussiehank · 2016-07-06T05:40:26+00:00

title :German model fined 24,000 Euro for false rape accusation.

http://archive.is/Xpnel

title : user sillymod has removed a thread about a German woman.

http://archive.is/Ksed2

unbelievablepeople · 2016-07-06T11:15:28+00:00

The English-language coverage of this case hasn't been very good, but here's my understanding of the basic facts of the case: Two men and a woman had a threesome. The sex was consensual, but the men also filmed it without her permission, then posted it online without her permission. The woman was angry and went to the police, but she thought they'd only do something about it if she claimed it was rape, so she lied and said she didn't consent. After a thorough investigation, the men were convicted of illegally distributing a sex tape without the permission of a participant, and the woman was convicted of perjury for testifying that they raped her when the tape showed it was consensual.

After a story about it was posted here, a /r/mensrights moderator misunderstood the part about the woman saying "no" and "stop" on video as the woman saying no to sex, when she was actually saying no to filming. The mod then said the story couldn't be classified as a false rape accusation, even though that's exactly what German courts said it was.

baserace · 2016-07-06T03:14:57+00:00

Some feedback please, mods. There didn't look anything untoward in the original thread.

coke501 · 2016-07-06T09:05:56+00:00

I really don't get, why the original was deleted. There was a lot of evidence (videos that didn't go online) that suggested that the woman was, in fact, not raped. She initially didn't even file a rape report. She sent the man she accused a short message 'miss you' after the fact and met with him again.

The process handling the rape is closed and the judge ruled 'not guilty', so, as far as the jurisdiction is concerned there was no rape.

The actual case tries to find out, if she lied under oath and the prosecution thinks they have enough evidence to get her arrested.

What everyone has to consider though: There is no final verdict yet. She was fined for perjury and she appealed. This one will likely go through the hole shebang up to the german supreme court.

redditorriot · 2016-07-06T11:47:52+00:00

I'd just like to point out that I skipped over the original thread.

Now it's been deleted, wrongfully it seems, this has brought more attention to the case than I would have had.

That's the thing about censorship, it very often backfires.

AlwaysABride · 2016-07-06T00:44:53+00:00

Mods run the sub so they can do what they wanna do; just thought the community should be fully aware of what they do.

FFXIV_Machinist · 2016-07-06T15:53:45+00:00

The reason for this removal:

Usually posts of this nature are an attempt to editorialize, blow out of proportion a case that does not fit in the general Mens rights issues, or try to condone rapists who got off on a technicality (it is unclear if this is the case here). After reading up on reading this article I've come to the conclusion that the OP neither editorialized, nor tried to spin a bad case to fit their narrative, and that our decision to remove was in error.

I've read, and found that the initial post should have stood as is. I've reinstated the initial post, and Apologize for the removal.

When it comes to false allegations, it is NOT our place to judge a person as guilty or innocent beyond the evidence presented, and the verdict rendered- we are not a court. if a innocent verdict was rendered, it is ok to speculate that the case may have been ill judged, but it is not our place to decide that is fact, and remove or promote based on that notion.

As an aside:

Mistakes can and will happen; In the future, instead of creating a thread about the removal, we ask that any questionable mod decisions be bought to Moderator mail, as it is entirely possible that the mod reviewing the report queue may have interpreted the item wrong, or made a bad call; its just something that happens. Messaging the mods will OFTEN result in a post being reinstated if there was a legitimate error in judgement; Do not be afraid or in fear of reprisal to reach out if you think we messed up. if you come to us, and feel that we are stonewalling you in modmail- then you have recourse to bring the discussion to the public forum.

I'm asking that you show us the same courtesy we show you- when we remove a bad post we dont go making a thread about "ERMERGERD THIS GUY SAD HE HATES FAGGOTS AND WANTS THEM TO DIE" - we remove it privately and inform you why, and discuss it if discussion is warranted.

Here is a link to the initial article

Here is a link to the reinstated post

Captaincastle · 2016-07-06T00:47:48+00:00

Can you substantiate any of this?

themcp · 2016-07-06T05:24:01+00:00

*Fined

FTFY.

(If we want others to take our complaints seriously, we need to get the little details right.)

DavidByron2 · 2016-07-06T05:07:25+00:00

Well this goes to the fact that there is no such crime as falsely accusing someone of rape. So what was she actually fined for?

the judge agreed, fining her 24,000 euros for falsely testifying

For perjury. It's certainly possible to commit perjury and also be raped.

AmuseDeath · 2016-07-06T13:35:04+00:00

You should make a list of these mods and put a link as to what they have done so that others can see why we feel a certain user is biased.

Proteus_Marius · 2016-07-06T14:19:38+00:00

Perhaps u/sillymod knows more than the rest of us or is somehow in better touch with with people's feelings.

We probably just don't get the important nuances of the case....

Thanks for the help, u/sillymod.

gmcalabr · 2016-07-06T10:41:52+00:00

*fined

Mens-Advocate · 2016-07-07T08:16:37+00:00

Thanks to OP !! both for the thorough description of the case and for the valuable references to German law against false accusation (beyond perjury). Would that the Anglo countries would follow suit.

It's true any mod can make a mistake; I've modded long ago and far away, and there's a lot to review in a short time. So, I wouldn't have named the mod.

However, I've also said before I think some of the moderation here over-zealous, pre-empting needed discussion by excluding too much (on a long list of grounds - ostensibly misogynist, belongs on TRP, etc).

Better to have almost all issues out in the open and discussed, such as whether or not this German case is a true rape/false rape.

Will this thread stand? Which will prevail - open exchange of ideas, or mod solidarity?

ENTP · 2016-07-06T15:54:03+00:00

Silly Mod is a feminist shill.

jeegte12 · 2016-07-06T05:10:15+00:00

[permanently deleted]

TheDude41 · 2016-07-07T08:03:35+00:00

Fifteen years ago, just having a sex tape go viral on the internet was enough to insure a lifetime of wealth and the pampered life of a celebrity (a.k.a. Paris Hilton, Kim Khardashian).

Now that will get you nothing.

Because nobody gives a fuck about your boring sex tape.

Nowadays, a person has to claim that they were raped to get people to bother to look at their sex tape to try to find out what really happened.

Anyway.

That's one shitty sex tape.

TheDude41 · 2016-07-07T08:35:12+00:00

Mods are still understandably shell-shocked at the sheer number of idiots who tried to prove that complete moron Brock Turner innocent.

Should have banned some of those threads instead.

GunOfSod · 2016-07-06T10:25:25+00:00

I'd give sillymod the benefit of the doubt, there is no history of thread deletion here, and they've done a lot of outstanding work for this sub.

Should be in meta in any case.

ThePigmanAgain · 2016-07-06T04:34:47+00:00

"The two men had uploaded video to the Internet of their actions with Lohfink, in which she is heard saying, “Stop it, stop it” and “no,” according to German media reports."

Don't sound too false to me.

Comments

The reason for this removal:

As an aside: