Morality in LTRs.

whyyoureadmyusername · 2016-09-06T20:27:37+00:00

Do you think that common movie trope when the girl dumps the guy after finding out that he is doing some highly profitable and exciting, but morally wrong/questionable business is based in reality?

I would say that for a responsible woman of average intelligence, finding out your SO was a criminal would definitely be a problem.

Don't get me wrong, plenty of crazy, irresponsible, and easily bored women would love it. It wouldn't surprise me that that a good chunk of women crave the ups and downs and drama a guy like that creates. I've met them and I had a several month long relationship with a girl like that.

But I'd say there are many women who would see this behavior for the huge red flag it was and they would not be happy with their man. Especially if they are looking for a serious LTR, most women are aware that criminals and gang bangers are bad news.

philomexa · 2016-09-06T20:40:44+00:00

Do you think that common movie trope when the girl dumps the guy after finding out that he is doing some highly profitable and exciting, but morally wrong/questionable business is based in reality?

yes, especially if kids are involved.

source: my thot cousin was happy banging an petty criminal/gang banger. Eventually he knocked her up so she gave him an ultimatum to get straight or GTFO of her life. He chose the gangs and thievery, thus he's never met his daughter (much less spoken to my cousin in years since). Although I suppose that's hard to do when the game catches up with you and you spend a majority of your time in prison.

Despite RP's assumption, not all women are magpies who can be distracted from morally unsavory behavior by shiny things. The thrill is the illusion of danger or "street smarts", the actual reality is heart breaking, frustrating, and emotionally exhausting for all parties.

Appointments with the DA, calls from county jail, bond hearings, payday loans and pawn shops to raise bail, waiting in the public defender's office for HOURS just for a prelim appointment; none of this is alluring or tingle inspiring. It's soul crushing, banal bureaucratic drudgery, and the end result for most "shady business".

ThatGreekLady · 2016-09-06T20:25:36+00:00

If a woman has kids, she's likely to dump someone over something like this. Not all women want to get involved in criminal activities especially if there are kids involved.

Do you want a real life example: I personally know someone who happens to sell drugs as a second job and started doing it after marriage and there was not even an economic need. This person also has kids. I can tell you 99% of the fights with his wife have to do with these habbits of his and it's also the main reason why both of his kids dislike him and wish their mother had divorced him when she didn't because she's an idiot.

I'm sorry if some women are not willing to follow men to self-destruction and destruction of the kids.

ArthurMacArthur · 2016-09-06T20:27:43+00:00

I would lose my job if Mr. Arthur became involved in the illegal international arms trade, or any other criminal enterprise. So yes, I would divorce the absolute hell out of him the minute he endangered my ability to legally provide for our children.

Pretty much all of my friends are in the same spot. I can't speak to how common our outlook is among women in general.

buartha · 2016-09-06T21:41:27+00:00

Seems pretty realistic to me from your description of it, and I've seen similar (but obviously much less dramatic) situations play out in real life. Someone being 'exciting' in a relationship is only good if you're the kind of person who selects for 'excitement.'

From what I've seen, deviating from the behaviour that attracted someone to you is the biggest relationship killer. So, if your partner wanted you for your hot bod and you get fat you're fucked, but equally if they're a chubby chaser you lose weight you're probably fucked too, even though that's a less common preference. Similarly, a lot of people like spontaneity and romance and will resent someone who started off that way getting dull, but if you were more laid back when you started dating someone and then randomly start laying it on thick with poetry and 'activity dates' (literally my worst nightmare) you'll probably annoy the hell out of your partner.

Keeping that in mind, there are women who would be interested in guys who involve themselves in shady goings on and high risk behaviour, sure, but if he wasn't like that when she got with him and the relationship was alright then there's a fairly good chance that she isn't one of them.

impossibleworlds · 2016-09-06T20:51:42+00:00

I couldn't tell you how common it is, but I could totally believe it. Living with an active criminal would get exhausting, not to mention existentially threatening, and of course morally problematic if you have any scruples whatsoever. All of those things given time could easily outweigh whatever cheap thrill the thug in question may be offering.

Still, of course it really depends on the level of shadiness. Personally there are certain things that are unforgivable. Unconditional loyalty is not, and has never been, my bailiwick.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2016-09-06T20:30:50+00:00

Mommy moo cows dump men for that. Gun molls help hide bodies

sen--sen · 2016-09-06T20:54:45+00:00

if they were previously living normal lives and then she finds out about the questionable/dangerous business, i don't think it would be unusual for someone to leave that situation. it's a huge risk and red flag. how common is it? not sure. but i don't think it's unrealistic. it only (sometimes) looks like fun on TV.

DemonConsulting · 2016-09-06T20:56:17+00:00

Depends on what is at stake. If they are just casually dating, she doesn't have much to lose.

However if they have kids and the marriage was built on the agreement to have a peaceful, normal and stable life with her having a job that she wants to keep, his criminal, high risk, irresponsible behavior is shaking the very foundation of their relationship. He is putting not only his own life, but also hers and their children's lives at stake. Any responsible adult would distance themselves from such a person, not only because they have changed and put them at risk, but also because it is absolutely irresponsible to leave children in such an environment.

It's not even about morally wrong or questionable business. It's about the risk he puts everyone around them in, simply by what he does and potentially dragging them in. If what he does is illegal, and they live in a functioning state, the risk is simply too high.

What if he gets arrested? Will the wife go to jail too, if she knew and supported him? Will the children end up on their own? Will the wife lose her job and be unable to support the family while dad is in prison?

What about the shady people he does business with? What if he gets kidnapped, held for ransom, or simply murdered one day? What if the whole family gets murdered because the mob came after them? What if their children get abducted and tortured or murdered because they were easy targets and a way to get to the father?

How far will the family be involved in this? Will they get sucked in? How many secrets does the wife have to keep, how soon will she be asked to help? Will the children grow up to do "questionable business" too, if it makes good money, their dad does it and everyone thinks he's cool and mom says it's ok?

In the end, it's mostly a risks and benefits analysis. In an unstable state, where gangs or the mafia rule anyway, staying with this guy probably isn't much worse than living on your own because he's unlikely to get caught and life sucks otherwise. If you live in an intact state with an effective police force and judiciary system, the risks are too high and the benefits too few - you can support a family as a single mother or with little income. You cannot support a family if you're both in jail or dead.

dragoness_leclerq · 2016-09-06T22:30:09+00:00

Do you think that common movie trope when the girl dumps the guy after finding out that he is doing some highly profitable and exciting, but morally wrong/questionable business is based in reality? How common is such behaviour in real life in your opinion?

Yes. I'd say most women, especially otherwise employed middle class women would very quickly rid themselves of a guy who had engaged or was engaging in reckless, criminal or morally/legally questionable behavior. Aside from the fact that it just feels wrong and violates their personal moral codes, it's also messy and dangerous and not nearly worth the trouble.

Some young women might initially be intrigued by it, especially if we're talking about an attractive, so-called 'bad boy' who talks the talk and has a little swagger, but it's not so much the lifestyle and criminal activity that gets them as it is the roughneck/masculine nature a lot of them have. However I'd say the majority of these girls will bounce the minute shit gets even remotely real, especially when it comes time to decide whether they actually want to date the guy in earnest.

I have friends who do (or have done) this type of shit and I can tell you right now, I'd never date or sleep with them and it doesn't excite me. I accept this activity as part of their lives and understand that's the kind of shit they're into, but it isn't something I'd ever want my partners to be involved in.

IME, you'll really only see women of lower socioeconomic status going for those types of guys long term, and even then, many of them aren't thrilled or excited by it, they're just happy to have a guy with the financial means to pull them out of the gutter.

AdamAJ · 2016-09-06T20:47:51+00:00

All things dangerous are quite exciting when the risk looks under control and many young people will overlook a lot of crazy things just to have fun... for a time. Then consequences start quicking in and they'll have to choose: leave the danger behind or be consumed by it.

Women with children have an extra heavy incentive to take the straight route and dump the dangerous man. After all, it's not about just themselves anymore... and having a baby comes with consequences aplenty.

fullmoonhermit · 2016-09-06T21:33:48+00:00

I wouldn't date anyone who made a living off of illegal activity or morally fucked up business. I don't have kids, I just have no desire to be mixed up in that. I'd much rather have an ethical partner, poor or not.

TW_CountryMusic · 2016-09-07T00:38:26+00:00

I personally would GTFO of there so fast the dude's head would spin. I value peace and tranquility above pretty much anything else in my life, and no amount of money would be worth the anxiety and stress of being involved in something like that. "Excitement" has never been a selling point for me and, if I'm honest, is something I tend to avoid when possible. (Money, too, for that matter.)

It's not even a moral thing. I just don't want that mess in my life. I'm boring and I like it that way.

As for how common this is? I don't know. I think there exists a certain subset of woman (person, really) who could be seduced by this type of lifestyle. In general I think they're likely to be young, lower-class, undereducated and have low FTO. As others have said, it seems very unlikely that a mature, educated woman from a decent background would put up with this, especially if there are kids involved.

lollygagyo · 2016-09-07T13:31:44+00:00

Yeah, I'd break up with my fiancee if I found out he was an arms dealer or a drug dealer or whatever. Not keen on marrying a criminal. Also the lying -- why didn't I know from the beginning? Like babe, I levelled with you and told you I was a prostitute, you could have told me and I probably wouldn't have judged you too badly.

citrusdrink76 · 2016-09-06T21:14:12+00:00

A casual relationship would depend on the level of risk he was exposing me to. A committed relationship would depend on the risk he was exposing himself and me to. You mentioned the $30mil figure elsewhere in the thread. If the crime was victimless, the payoff was massive and there was very little risk of getting caught or being killed, I may be open to it. But the risk would have to be so small that I'm not sure such a scenario would be possible irl.

If children are involved I'm out, instantly. There is no acceptable level of 'risk' there, not for any amount of money. And as someone else mentioned, this decision would be more practical than moral.

StickItInTheToilet · 2016-09-06T23:52:53+00:00

Most girls I know would express only curiosity and excitement when the talk hovers over some shady business, I cant even imagine any of them dropping a guy after finding a fat stack of cash in their apartment.

A very young girl or woman who has grown up around criminal activity/consider money the most important thing in life might be seduced by the money (or be excited by the whole thing). (And if things went wrong later, would claim to be innocent and they they didn't know what he was doing).

I think the movie would have been realistic if it went either way. Some girls would stay, some wouldn't.

But you're totally right in thinking some girls would find it exciting.

[deleted] · 2016-09-07T05:01:43+00:00

[permanently deleted]

RareBlur · 2016-09-07T05:38:12+00:00

Some people have standards

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damaskrose · 2016-09-06T22:38:30+00:00

I wouldn't care, but I place little to no value on security.

GroovyEFS · 2016-09-07T11:15:36+00:00

Depends on what type of girl we're talking. There are plenty of boring straight ones who would definitely dump a guy for this. There are also plenty of thrill seeking more fun girls who'd love that shit.

despisedlove2 · 2016-09-09T18:23:29+00:00

The issue that women see is not the immorality - most women can't understand that concept.

The issue is sustainability. Criminal lives, no matter how rich, rarely end well. A sensible woman may be attracted to a tattooed psychopathic alpha, and may even want his babies. But she wouldn't want to be his wife.

Title	Morality in LTRs.
Author	FairlyNaive
Upvotes	8
Comments	56
Date	September 6, 2016 8:15 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/51h6yl/morality_in_ltrs/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/morality-in-ltrs.273175 https://theredarchive.com/post/273175

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