On why TRP subreddit often gives a fallacious sense of truth

embracingtheredpill · 2019-03-10T13:17:18+00:00

I agree with the confirmation bias it creates. I personally avoid these "me too" posts reflecting on the behaviour of individual women from popular media, unless they offer some substantive analysis that extends the TRP argument or brings in a new perspective. I do understand their value however. I have built societies, communities and movements and understand the need for there to be intense single-mindedness in order for anything to get done, and for regular engagement. By definition every post can't be the best post. Any movement hoping to grow and maintain its base needs that confirmation bias fodder.

On the first point of correlation does not equal causation, you are wildly off the mark. Firstly, you attribute all the positive behaviours that TRP teaches us and then claim TRP has no role to play. I understand the nuance in your argument and I'll come to that, but it must be pointed out how you speak of everything TRP does for men and brush it under the rug. Even at this level of argument, TRP provides a positive idea of masculinity in a culture increasingly lacking in one. I know, I grew up without an idea of positive masculinity, in a world where men are the problem. These healthier habits which are integral to my better self now, I would not have without this positive identity. They go hand in hand.

This brings me to my second point, the idea that you're putting forth that the worldview of gender relations of TRP is different from the day to day practice and advice-you're sadly mistaken. That is very incorrect. The success we have with women because of our habits after discovering TRP, would not be possible without the internalization of the framework and world view. Look at the world of PUA and look at these shell of men and the feel good dating advice psycho babble industry that follows them. Either they are broken men, in monogamous committed relationships, or stupidly ineffective. They provide no rudder. Let us assume for a minute that we practiced all the lifting, the out going etc without TRP, which I did. I had nowhere near as much any success, for the simple reason that I did not understand what I was doing, I did not understand why women were doing what I'm doing, I would keep getting into monogamous relationships at the first sign of success because I thought it was the "right thing to do". I got laid a lot more, but I was much more unhappy.

Now, while the pure freuquency of my getting laid has reduced, on my journey, I am healthier, happier and when I get laid it's on my own terms. I know my failure to get laid is my own fault and why and where I need to work on. I also know the different strategies to employ according to the reality of male and female nature, and I am all round better lover and person for it. The AF/BB distinction, the women can't love men the way men want to be loved and all the other mindset is at it's core, and as any trainer will tell you, you can't have abs without a strong core.

poppy_blu · 2019-03-10T14:26:33+00:00

Firstly, the correlation between adopting TRP and having more success with women :

You might have more success with women but you won't get quality women. If it's what you need to get passed your social anxiety and build your confidence, OK. But what I see is men complaining about how awful women are and that RP confirmed their worst opinons about women, without realizing that it's RP tactics that attract that type of woman in the first place.

Secondly, the dynamic of the sub making it easily subject to confirmations biases :

The sub is garbage. The guys hanging around there are losers riding the bench making up stories to impress their fellow borderline incels and give their sad lives some semblence of value. The ECs are the worst of the garbage.

Thirdly, some irrefutable argument traps:

See my last point. Confirmation bias is the hallmark of people who can't think for themsleves.

blackedoutfast · 2019-03-10T15:41:40+00:00

TRP is a discussion of sexual strategy for men. if it reliably works well, it reliably works well and that's the main thing that matters. worrying about whether or not the theories underlying the strategies are the 100% capital t Truth is a pointless waste of time. trying to prove that something is absolutely True and not just a reliable, repeatable theory is pretty much impossible anyway. the fact that TRP can't prove its theories are the truth does NOT imply that those theories are false. TRP can't absolutely "prove" that AWALT, but science can't absolutely "prove" that germs cause disease either.

shipiaozi · 2019-03-10T16:22:39+00:00

TRP is man's feminism, some of their theory are true and meaningful but their purpose and advices are very harmful for reasons they don't understand, greatly reduced the RMV of believers. "Alpha male" should be rejected.

Xemnas81 · 2019-03-10T19:02:34+00:00

The correlation wouldn't exist if women were not at least homogamous. How could you possibly ignore that...

I've seen fucking tons of these posts and nowadays I just read them as a way to AMOG to win brownie points with the ladies here.

Here is the RP; women like (are attracted to) emotional intelligence, the ability to decipher nuance in social convention (including the ability to essentially double-think) without their help is an aspect of EQ. The fact TRP exists is enough for women to hate it as it implies that a lot of men trying to get laid lack the high EQ i.e. ability to 'Just Get It' that women want. And autist genes are not meant to breed, certainly not to game the system.

cateml · 2019-03-10T12:37:35+00:00

All the stuff in trp besides obvious self improvement shit is there to give you a confidence boost from having “secret knowledge” - same old esoteric urge that drives humans to create cults, magic rites, religions, etc

Also to make you angry, contemptuous and hateful towards women and consequently take them off the pedestal. A sexist jerk is at least moderately better than a niceguy or anxious, awkward dude in womens eyes. Being a dickhead is indicative of confidence and can substitute for more prosocial indicators of confidence in a pinch.

Its also better motivation to get your ass in the gym than just being a confused, bitter, demotivated loser with no grand narrative about a heros journey with which to conceptualize himself

decoy88 · 2019-03-10T12:45:35+00:00

TRP needs to just stop selling itself as “The Red Pill”

It made sense in The Matrix because WTF! it was an entirely digital world while reality is humans being in pods with their juices sucked out by machines.

Most people understand red pill shit that works. It’s only the minor few who like Cypher want to voluntarily stick with the digital fakeness.

A more accurate portrayal would be the majority of humanity are in Zion, aware of the fucked up things but celebrating anyway, while the minor few are stuck in the matrix because they lied to themselves that it was better that way.

CamoWoobie100 · 2019-03-10T16:29:14+00:00

I dont believe TRP is infallible, but I believe it is the most efficient worldview to have in regards to dating. I still take things with a grain of salt. But when the alternatives are worse I'm going to pick the method that is "most effective" when completely effective isnt an option.

rpsheepdog · 2019-03-10T12:10:53+00:00

I think overall TRP is very beneficial to guys, but I think the issues that come from it is that, as many EC's have said, its rooted in a male only space, the "locker room" talk type stuff (I don't particularly like this phrase, but it gets the point across). Its men swapping notes and stories with each other about what has worked in the past.

I think one of the biggest issues that because it is a male space, and guys tend to think in a more binary way a lot of the guys who aren't socially aware tend to attribute everything to either alpha or beta and completely ignore the context of what every story or observation is in.

Also, it's on the internet, so there are people shit posting, trolling, lying, etc.

sadomasochrist · 2019-03-10T15:28:11+00:00

So what is your alternative?

What "flaws" have you seen?

This is just irrational skepticism. This is the same logic used to be "skeptical of global warming."

For example, even if only 10% of women acted accordingly to the redpill theory (riding the CC in their 20's with alphas then settling with a beta, being bet kept close when made jealous or knowing that her guy has options, or any AWALT attribute) : that could already provide millions of examples, field reports, and "once more we see that AWALT" type posts. Paradoxically, even a million of AWALT posts wouldn't be enough to know that AWALT.

AWALT means all women are like that. Nearly 100% of women prefer taller to shorter men, are aroused by dominance etc. We don't care about outliers and it would be pointless to try and construct a system which is "scientifically valid."

It's designed to get results, and we do. No other system exists that gets the results we do for short term pairing.

You want to get laid without a female primary orientation, we got the goods.

I used to think like you, before I hit the books and pulled up studies on female arousal. Nurturing, negatively correlated. Jawline, arrogance, narcissism, scent cues to dominance were positively.

Basically women settle for LTRs, which is fine, men do too. But we have wide arousal windows.

Those mechanisms are the true conflict. And you can't dance around it.

sketch162000 · 2019-03-10T13:13:25+00:00

Applying all of that, it is more than natural that you will get more girls than before, you basically made yourself better in everything. In addition you will get experience in talking to women by training more and accepting rejection, so you'll get better just by your own experience and learn about things to do by yourself, without TRP being a factor.

Same old "all the good stuff about TRP isn't really TRP."

The entire reason people end up taking the pill is because they aren't getting effective advice from the mainstream narrative. Blue dating advice is always saying empty stuff like JBY and the like, but then bloops try to come and appropriate the realistic, actionable advice that is offered from TRP like those things were blue all along.

No.

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wobbleelbbow · 2019-03-10T18:45:14+00:00

Trp is many factors..wow. breaking news. Did you just today found out about it

rosacanina_ · 2019-03-11T10:47:09+00:00

that success is caused by many factors you all added at the same time and thinking that all of them are then true is fallacious. Isolation of variable is primordial

Sure.. you don't know which factor contributes how much but is this really relevant? If it works it works. If you find that a pill with 3 ingredients cures cancer it's a very good and very useful pill even though it is not yet understood how these ingredients work together.

Offhisgame · 2019-03-12T12:58:17+00:00

Your issue us thinking these people can think logically

SeemedGood · 2019-03-13T14:16:20+00:00

Does the adoption of RP philosophical tenets about women’s behaviors improve one’s ability to predict women’s behaviors?

I have found that it does, remarkably so. In addition, it also perfectly explains previous behaviors which I had found befuddling.

As such, I believe the model to be a good fit.

Whisper · 2019-03-14T06:12:33+00:00

An irrefutable theory has no use and isn't relevant, I'm not saying every redpillers would say what is said in the example, but it is really easy to end up falling in this trap because of the abundance of comments/posts that appear to confirm the theory in all cases.

If you're not testing this stuff in your own life, you haven't even learned the material, much understood it.

zeppelin445 · 2019-03-10T11:47:48+00:00

What is the purpose of this post? You're not going after TRP or any of its messages, you're just saying that you shouldn't fall into an echo chamber and question what you think.

Why did this need an entire page of writing?

Workaholico · 2019-03-10T16:10:54+00:00

Good post. I like those which push for a more scientific view in TRP. One of the things that make me not be a red pill is just that it is not scientific enough. It needs more of the scientific method. They make hypotheses and don't really put much up to the test.

Even then, there are things you not looking too well.

The AF/BB, hypergamy, AWALT ideas usually come from empirical scientific data. Yes. And it seem to work. Yes. But their value is in predicting behavior not the fact that it following them works. TRP put their hypotheses to the empirical test. That is why they maintain themselves. This is helped by the blue pills which love to put TRP ideas to scrutiny and usually fails.

For example. A research put here by a blue piller showed that men relate insatisfaction with marriage (mostly wth sex life) and divorce iniciated by men to show men are unsatisfied by lack of sex and thus cheat. but it also showed that insatisfaction was not related to divorce in the case of women. Hypergamy predicts such behavior. By trying to disprove men's "amoral" behavior, blue pillers are the best to prove TRP is correct.

Title	On why TRP subreddit often gives a fallacious sense of truth
Author	MirrorThaoss
Upvotes	10
Comments	109
Date	March 10, 2019 11:42 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/azewdk/on_why_trp_subreddit_often_gives_a_fallacious/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/on-why-trp-subreddit-often-gives-a-fallacious.256827 https://theredarchive.com/post/256827

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