Why does everything have to be a competition?

GuitarsAreGettingOld · 2016-01-13T19:21:31+00:00

I have been a reddit active MRA before going red pill and the answer is easy.

I hear a lot of their points and I think they are valid and totally worth being recognized

This is it. This makes the difference. It wasn't like this when the MRM started. The idea that men could have problems that need to be talked about and addressed was seen as ridiculous.

The responses to "men have problems / men are hurting" always were "how cute / fucking ridiculous. Women have it worse".

I don't care about MRA stuff anymore, but I understand why they make their arguments in the way you criticize.

NalkaNalka · 2016-01-13T19:41:37+00:00

I find this so ironic since feminists started the whole oppression olimpics in the first place. The most common way for feminists to shut up men was to tell them that "woman's problems are worse and more important than yours and we will get to you once all the woman's problems are solved" Some time before the heat death of the universe I hope.

In fact, with the advent of 'intersectionalty' feminist competition over who is more oppressed has become an officialy recognized and regulated sport.

Furthermore, feminism has put great effort into creating a unidirection template of oppression that erases male problems and suffering. Feminists keep insisting at such lengths that men have it so much better and that any problems they claim to suffer from are "whineing"

Because of this, the first thing MRA's have to do is to let the public know that there is, in fact, a problem. That men are suffering from oppression by society and goverment in many important áreas. One of the main ways to do this is by compareing men's situation in that área with woman's.

The main reason that MRA's have to keep reminding people that in many areas woman have it better in modern western society than men is because feminists have spent decades brainwashig the public into buying the binary "men bad woman week" social status quo.

So in conclusion, if you ever wonder why MRA's compare. Take a look at your handiwork. They would not have to do that if you had not spent decades painting men as the bad guys, the oppressors, the privilaged, the patriarchs.

It's your handiwork, own it.

UA_Hammer · 2016-01-13T19:18:52+00:00

Since you pretty much made this as a reply to me, I'm not an mra, I just point out and draw attention to the bold faced lies lies like "women have to try just as hard on appearance".

The mra movement is pointless because there is no reasoning with sjws. Silencing news about migrant mass rapes shows that pretty convincingly. If mras and the manosphere accomplish anything it will be by having and using power, not by convincing sjws the error of their ways.

OlBastard · 2016-01-13T20:10:02+00:00

It's not a competition. Society gives not 1 fuck about male problems, that's what MRAs are pointing their fingers at.

"Men have it bad too" is not said in a vacuum. It is said in an environment that doesn't give a shit about male issues, yet coddles women to the point of infantilizing them.

alreadyredschool · 2016-01-13T19:32:09+00:00

why not just let your facts stand alone without comparing them?

...

If male suicide is within the normal range of suicides, then it isn't a male problem for MRAs.

and not trivialize it?

Maybe they are pissed off by the constant bombardment about women problems and how they have it worse?

GaiusScaevolus · 2016-01-13T19:47:24+00:00

Because when you say 'men AND women have it hard in X way.', then you cease to have a social movement, just a shitty, universal truth that X is difficult.

Feminists do this as well. When they say "Women have it tough in the workplace.", what they mean is "Women have it tough(er than men) in the workplace. Otherwise they're just saying the workplace is tough for everyone and doesn't that suck oh well let's get back to it.

lbspredh · 2016-01-13T19:54:42+00:00

To be fair usually women's issues on here are frequently posed as an accusation, like rape culture, I never raped anyone yet somehow I'm to blame for it as a man, worse I'm expected to take action about it but when it's the same issue affecting men suddenly it's no big deal, those male rape victims probably deserved it anyway right?

I know it's seen as losing the argument but usually people get defensive because someone is on the attack

prodigy2throw · 2016-01-13T20:02:42+00:00

This should probably open your eyes to the fact that most of the issues feminists bring up are in actuality just problems humans face regardless of gender.

Hell most of the issues brought up have more to do with socio economic factors than gender.

But you don't wanna hear me. You just wanna daaaaance.

diFFzee · 2016-01-13T19:19:02+00:00

Probably irrelevant to this thread, moreso relevant to the title, but that's how men think. Competitively. When I was in college we got a (very respected) STEM type professor (female) lecturing us on how we should eradicate the competitive culture from STEM education cause women hate it and that's why they don't go STEM. Nobody gave a fuck, us males went on competing.

On topic, it's not competition, it's comparison. Sometimes when you 're on a ship that's just collided with an iceberg it's kinda easier to point out the giant gaping hole that's letting in water to the dude complaining about the temperature of his bath water. Something along these lines.

PS Activism is always prone to hyperbole.

KrisK_lvin · 2016-01-13T19:32:11+00:00

Is it possible to make your point that there needs to be less of a mental health stigma for men or more body acceptance ads or better paternity laws without turning it around and attacking women?

It’s a reasonable point, but I think perhaps there are three issues that you may (possibly) have overlooked in this.

First, you ask if it’s possible to do this without “attacking women” but they are not attacking women, they are refuting Feminist claims. A great deal of Feminist arguments are predicated on the idea that we live in a society whose very structure is organised so that men continually direct their aggression (downwards) toward women and so successful have they been in doing this that many laws in the Anglosphere, especially those around divorce and issues of intimate partner violence (IPV), are strongly biased against men.

Second, the very existence of Men’s Rights is seen as an affront to Feminism - not women, please note, but Feminism. IPV is a clear example - if a woman beats a man and even injures him, the authorities will arrest either him or her or him alone. Why? Because IPV law and justice follows Feminist arguments (the Duluth model) which says that "domestic violence is the result of patriarchal ideology in which men are encouraged and expected to control their partners”. So the very idea that men can be victims of abuse from a woman partner is basically impossible under that model. Feminists therefore attack MRAs because, as I say, just by existing they undermine many deeply cherished Feminist beliefs.

Third, is that almost exactly the same argument made above about MRAs could be made about Feminists. It is not hard to find such statements as “Men may kill themselves at three time the rate of women, but women attempt suicide more often (and are therefore more oppressed).”

I think this jeopardizes the legitimacy of your movement

Feminism jeopardises the movement by denying outright that it has any legitimacy at all. They routinely describe anyone who is critical of Feminism as an Anti-Feminist and all Anti-Feminists are seen as MRAs.

Right here on reddit I saw a Feminist (a guy, not a woman) write:

I've met MRAs who assault feminists and rape women.

Unbelievable as it sounds, I don’t think this guy is a troll - a fantasist quite possibly - but not a troll. I don’t know who the hell he was referring to in that comment above - a PUA maybe? - but more than likely he simply sees any male that commits violence against women as an anti-Feminist which, in his mind, automatically makes him an ‘MRA’.

It’s the blackest of black PR.

Edit Quick typo deleted.

Rufus_Reddit · 2016-01-13T21:26:37+00:00

Welcome to the wonderful world of scarcity. When resources - like how many shits I have to give - are finite, then there will be competition for those resources.

I find [...] frustrating. I hear a lot of their points and I think they are valid and totally worth being recognized, the problem is their need to compare. ...

Many people feel that way about feminists any time "we're just asking for equality" comes up.

Is it possible to make your point that there needs to be less of a mental health stigma for men or more body acceptance ads or better paternity laws without turning it around and attacking women?

Indifference is not assault. When MRAs are promoting their preferred agenda, it's no more of an an attack on women than the typical feminist program is an attack on men.

drok007 · 2016-01-13T21:25:10+00:00

I think MRA and feminism are both terrible. MRA is just BP feminism for men.

Denswend · 2016-01-13T21:40:29+00:00

I'm biting.

Let's assume that women and men are somehow deserving of equal rights (don't tell my boys at the The Red Klan) and unjust (denying them equal rights) things happen to them both.

So if A happens to women, and B happens to men, we shall judge not on who events happen, but rather the intensity and amount of suffering A and B create to women and men respectively.

If I were to do otherwise, to consider a small slight on men more important than a huge issue of women, that would not be equality - but a disbalanced situation akin to aristocrates and slaves is pre-Christian world. Suppose that you have a situation where saying mean things to men carries more punishment that saying mean things to women - this is not equality. Suppose that you have a situation where saying mean things to men carries more punishment than severely beating women - this is not equality.

Now, saying that women have it worse because they occasionally feel a bit sad - while ignoring that men fucking kill themselves more often because they feel a bit sad is not equality. Standing for equality, then not shutting up how women have it bad cause they feel so sad - while ignoring men that fucking kill themselves is not just anti-equality, it is hypocrisy. Men are more impacted by depression by the simple fact that they fucking kill themselves more often. Therefore, men's depression must have privilege over women's depression because it ends in fucking men killing themselves.

Besides, as GuitarsAreGetttingOld said, feminists started it to devalue MRA and monopolize power. For a example :

Pizzey said of the newly emerging establishment "I never saw Women's Aid as a movement that was hostile to men, but The National Federation, which quickly formed, made it quite clear that men were the enemy."[23] After the hijacking, the demand for a service for women survivors of domestic violence grew and soon public funding became available.[24] Pizzey has lamented that the movement she started had moved from the "personal to the political".

Go ahead, read the entire thing. It's a goldmine. Now, you're just upset because MRA are doing the same thing. Which you people started.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2016-01-13T23:24:44+00:00

Because Marxist feminism has framed men and women as class enemies rather than complements, and every policy victory for one side is taken out of the hide of the other

Whisper · 2016-01-16T03:48:12+00:00

Why does everything have to be a competition?

Because you didn't notice it was a competition until the chicks stopped winning.

wub1234 · 2016-01-13T19:02:52+00:00

MRA and trying to get laid should be separated completely. The latter has nothing to do with the former.

ehwut · 2016-01-13T21:42:11+00:00

People hurt people sometimes. Women are people. And when people get hurt by something (or someone), they have resentment toward that something (or someone). So some men resent women.

It's a crying shame, but it's just human nature. We can't rush their healing process. It's something they have to work through on their own. Third wave feminism is identical to the MRM in this regard, neglecting the parts of the MRM that are different (since I'm still learning about those).

In the meantime, as they heal, try to filter the poison out of their honey. Most MRAs are not inherently bad. They're just wounded.

Your post immediately suggests that you can extract their good points from the competition.

there needs to be less of a mental health stigma for men or more body acceptance ads or better paternity laws

Focus on that approach because you can control yourself, and you can not control others. This gives you power over yourself instead of handing the keys to your thoughts and mood to people who may be too aggrieved to be kind with that privilege. Or, if it becomes too stressful, then don't focus on them. Take a break or walk away; there's no shame in choosing your brain food with your own needs in mind.

Apexk9 · 2016-01-14T00:15:57+00:00

The only Male Right I care about is that Circumcision on babies should be banned.

Its also because humans are competitive.

Plugawy_Nedznik · 2016-01-14T09:05:07+00:00

Try /r/askgod if you're religious, /r/askbiology if you're not

purple_lock · 2016-01-14T13:22:09+00:00

I've been wondering exactly the same thing recently. If it's not a competition, why are feminists/women trying so hard to be more masculine? If it wasn't a competition, then the two complimentary sides would be using their different skill sets to benefit each other.

That's how most teams/partnerships work. Each individual has their own skills, and their own role to play. If everyone in the team is fighting for captain nothing gets done, and if everyone on the team is exactly the same as everyone else, with no special skills or role, again very little will get done.

So why do feminists seem to promote competing, fighting tooth and nail, to be as masculine as men around her, especially her partner? We have plenty of masculine men (and women for that matter). We really need more feminine women. There's the balance you're looking for. And instead of competing, we would all be able to work a lot more harmoniously.

Title	Why does everything have to be a competition?
Author	belletaco
Upvotes	0
Comments	73
Date	January 13, 2016 6:59 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/40thts/why_does_everything_have_to_be_a_competition/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-does-everything-have-to-be-a-competition.276977 https://theredarchive.com/post/276977

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