How do people find TRP misogynistic?

Algermas · 2014-06-27T15:49:01+00:00

Any form of self improvement by men who are not naturally "Alpha" is seen as almost rape because you're tricking women into fucking a man who was, at one time, a lower status male.

Secondly any conclusions reached about women other than women = supreme angels, correct in everything they do and think is viewed as misogynistic by the hamster.

RedBigMan · 2014-06-27T17:46:44+00:00

Because feminism has redefined misogynistic as 'anything women dont like'...

Farts? Misogynistic

Burps? Same

Some guy cut off a slow ass woman driver on the highway? What a fucking privileged shitlord! Misogyny!

It's kinda crazy what feminists will spit out as misogynistic these days. I think in sweden there was some bitches bitching about guys who sit with their legs apart on public transit as being an example of like patriarchy and misogyny...

PedroIsWatching · 2014-06-27T18:03:51+00:00

The things TRP are ACTUALLY for are not misogynistic. Improving yourself and taking control of your life.

But there are people here that seem to legitimately hate women, whether it's them coming to terms with reality or they're just a dick, and they pop up in threads all the time.

If you're a person checking this place out after seeing a link about how "horrible and fucked up that subreddit is", you're going to immediately zero in on comments like this one from the sci-fi story thread today:

The only realistic way to bring society back into line is to take away the opportunities of women. You don't have to take away their freedoms, but without the opportunities to work and make a living for themselves, suddenly marriage becomes an attractive option.

That looks incredibly misogynistic regardless of whether it's in context of other RP discussion, and makes the entire community look bad.

2014-06-27T18:34:41+00:00

Because women like to think of themselves as special snowflakes who are in no way similar to other women. Women view any generalization about women that isn't overwhelmingly positive as a personal attack, or at the very least an opportunity to get outraged and play the victim.

LeviGoldberg · 2014-06-27T16:00:22+00:00

If anyone does feel any residual contempt for women, please let me know how you think it fits into TRP. Or do a lot of TRP members think that men are truly better than women?

I think there is definitely some residual contempt from people newer to TRP. It's a bitter pill to swallow for many, and having your entire worldview rearranged can definitely make a person upset.

As to your second question, I think that the view TRP takes of women and men is very unpopular. Over the past 70 or 80 years, many liberal arts fields have pushed the idea that "social constructs" explain why men and women are different. This is, in a word, ridiculous. To the more radical egalitarians, denying differences across gender or race is blasphemy, and "misogynist" is the easiest smear-term they can pigeonhole TRP into. To moderates, the commonly held TRP belief of women being a hypergamous "most mature teenager in the room"-type is hateful towards women. This one can DEFINITELY be seen as sexist (as is any acknowledgment of difference between sexes to the insane leftists), but I think misogynistic is an awful term for it.

To the majority of us, TRP is a lens through which the world should be viewed. This analytical lens makes some TRPers angry at women for not being what they had imagined women as (which is pathetic in my eyes). However, for most people in relationships I've read on here, it becomes a way to improve the relationship by making both parties happier. I've seen it at work in my own relationship.

By reading a forum that encouraged me to take the lead in my relationship, have I suddenly started to hate women? Of course not. But every reader here is not as balanced in their understanding of TRP, and this leads to shitty comments that imbeciles on other boards take as the opinion of all TRPers.

EggzOverEazy · 2014-06-27T15:52:36+00:00

Or do a lot of TRP members think that men are truly better than women?

Not better, different.

The modern western woman wants to be viewed as 100% equal to a man, and in most cases they think they are better than men. That a man should succumb to their every want or need because they have a vagina.

When you go against this group think, they automatically label you as a misogynist biggot that thinks you're better than women. White knights defend their entitlement thinking that is the way to get some ass, then they bitch when the alpha guy gets them. Women like to think they have the whole world by the balls, but have an alpha male using game on them, and every fucking time it works. They hate this, so therefore you're labeled as a tool, douchebag etc.

ashglass · 2014-06-27T20:33:17+00:00

Some people say dumb shit like "women shouldn't work" and "women shouldn't vote" and the rest of Reddit automatically assumes the dumb comments mirror the opinion of the entire community.

JP_Whoregan · 2014-06-27T16:25:36+00:00

Where does the hate come from?

Doesn't make sense, does it? Somehow, trying to make yourself into something women are attracted to is, well....sexist.

But the short answer to your question is that RP and game theory fucks up hypergamy and the advantage women have in the sexual marketplace. In their ideal world, alpha men would be alpha men, and present themselves as such, and beta suckers would be beta suckers, and present themselves as such. This makes it easy for them to separate the wheat from the chaff, and keeps them fully in control of sexual selection. Game and RP theory seeks to reclaim a measure of that control for men (like it was pre-sexual revolution and "hookup culture), and women cannot stand for that.

noblepaladin · 2014-06-27T17:47:49+00:00

Personally, I think the so called politically correct blue pill view on women is incredibly sexist. They deny women agency and think that they are infantile creatures. They think that women are not intelligent enough to make choices and are easily confused and mislead, and that they need to be showered with "feel good" messages all the time like how you would treat a three year old kid. This is obvious in ever thread where a woman does something wrong, you have an army of white knights show up saying that it is not her fault, that she was mislead and confused, etc. Personally, I would be extremely insulted if someone said I were so easily confused. Might well say "It's not her fault. She is a girl, she is so Hodor". That is basically what the white knights are saying.

We actually believe that women are intelligent beings that are capable of making their own choices. That is why we hold them accountable for their actions. That is equality, we treat them as we would treat men. If a child does something bad, you discipline him/her and give the child another chance. If an adult does something bad, you toss him/her out of your house and disassociate with him/her.

TRP does have a tendency to lean towards pessimism, which can understandably be misinterpreted as anger or hate. But it is not sexist.

ont_anon · 2014-06-27T17:11:59+00:00

I think that it is in the way that TRP ideology is executed by some of its followers. I believe that TRP has two distinct, although not necessarily separate goals:

Better yourself as a Man, e.g. lift weights, read more, pursue new hobbies, continually educate yourself, get a better job/start your own business, etc.
Lift the blinders which we, as men, have had placed over our eyes as to the motivations and desires of women. From a psychosocial standpoint we are then able to behave in a manner which women find attractive and achieve whatever goals we might have, be it a LTR, plates, one-night stand, threesome, etc. In addition, because we are better Men, the women should also come away from the experience in a better way than they were beforehand.

By correctly combining facets of both of those items I believe that you can be successful with TRP as defined only by yourself. But when someone jumps in with both feet, motivated by anger and frustration and a limited amount of knowledge... well, that's when things go poorly.

An example of the TRP-misogyny link, as slanted as you may think it is, was posted on xojane recently.

I think that one of the processes for people thinking TRP is full of misogynists, in many cases, is similar to the following:

Guy gets cheated on/treated horribly by a woman/women and is extremely angry and frustrated. Guy finds his way to TRP. He most likely already has poor social and 'Game' skills.
Thinking that TRP is the panacea, Guy decides that he wants to fix things as quickly as possible and reads what he thinks is a enough TRP information to go on.
Combined with the anger and resentment which he still feels towards women and armed with a stunted knowledge of TRP 'skillz', Guy begins to interact with/date women using what he believes are the correct techniques.
Guy applies what he has learned, albeit in a heavy-handed manner, thinking that these steps will work magic, i.e. treating women like an asshole, trying to escalate with kino in an incorrect manner, has a Mightier Than Thou attitude (instead of exuding legitimate confidence), etc.

Eventually it comes out that his behaviour is motivated by TRP (otherwise, how would anyone know to associate this poor behaviour with TRP?) and that is how the connection is made.

In addition, people stumbling across /r/TheRedPill, having a glimpse at a few posts and then making a mass, shortsighted judgment on the entire community is also the cause.

With enough information and practice of the two goals stated at the beginning of this post, I am a very firm believer in TRP. I've been continually studying, reading and applying the techniques since around January and it has worked wonders for my life, as I know it has for thousands of others. The steps which "Guy" applies in step 4 of my example would have worked for him, if applied with the correct nuance.

That being said, when practiced incorrectly, the ideology of TRP can very easily come across as misogynistic.

kick6 · 2014-06-27T21:47:46+00:00

I've learned that I used to put women on a pedestal, and have since stopped

In their eyes, that's misogyny. Anything that isn't explicitly advantageous to women is, in their minds.

If anyone does feel any residual contempt for women, please let me know how you think it fits into TRP

There is a lot of anger. It's a natural part of taking the red pill. Once you realize everyone has been lying to you about the true nature of women your whole fucking life you're bound to a be little - perturbed - shall we say. Everyone eventually gets over it, but there's always going to be a subset of men in this phase. And thanks to confirmation bias on the part of our detractors, we're always all going to be bitter basement dwellers.

veyron1001 · 2014-06-27T17:55:26+00:00

Taking women off the pedestal and treating them like everybody else is misogyny apparently

exit_sandman · 2014-06-27T18:24:43+00:00

Or do a lot of TRP members think that men are truly better than women?

Well, certainly a lot very vocal ones.

Where does the hate come from?

From the fact that TRP rejects the contemporary mainstream ideology concerning gender relations. And because of a lot of the vocal dudes.

thechairinfront · 2014-06-27T19:16:32+00:00

Maybe you should put this in /r/purplepilldebate.

Old_Pine_Tree · 2014-06-27T19:57:57+00:00

Misanthropy, misandry, misogyny; all with the Greek prefix 'mis(o)' to denote hatred. Criticism of women? Categorization of gender and sex? Specification of women and issues? Expressions of bitterness and frustration? These things have nothing to do with hate.

So what gives? Well, the word has been co-opted by a movement founded on identity politics:

Identity politics are political arguments that focus upon the self-interest and perspectives of self-identified social interest groups and ways in which people's politics may be shaped by aspects of their identity through loosely correlated social organizations.

This socio-political phenomenon fosters in-group principles, values, and jargon that do not always align with the way they were intended.

(As an aside, you can see aspects of this occurring within elements of TRP. The difference being, however, TRP still just represents a collection of male sexual hacks that are not contingent upon an adoption of TRP to effect. They also do not explicitly serve TRP as a 'movement'. MRM would be a better representation of identity politics, but, of course, the reigning champ is still feminism.)

The relevance of this phenomenon to the word 'misogyny' is that it no longer means 'hatred against women', but rather, 'something opposed to feminism' that is marketed through politically-correct channels as hatred against women.

For example, nothing in this post advocates hatred against women in any way, implied or express. In fact, it says nothing about women at all, but rather a political ideology - yet it would be construed as misogynistic by many and dismissed on that basis alone, since it is criticizing an aspect of Feminism.

As you can see, this approach is not meaningful to a democratic debate, but it is still applied because it requires no effort and is effective if the appropriate social venues are in place. These tactics are illogical in that they attack credibility of the person rather than their position (i.e. ad hominem) and are designed for political effect rather than intellectual integrity.

The other suspect counterpoint to this method is that it's not based on an ethically-defensible mechanism. In other words, this post would be considered misogynositic not on the basis of it causing/promoting harm, being factually-incorrect, or illogical, but rather because it offends one's sensibility. This is an aesthetic argument following a logical form that is akin to arguing that homosexuality is bad because anal sex is gross; that is, offending a homophobic sensibility.

This kind of aesthetic argument is not ethical in form, and is both fucking absurd and intellectually puerile. What's frustrating is that feminists and leftists (which I am) should know better too, having been at the butt end of such ridiculous arguments for decades.

comefromspace · 2014-06-27T20:03:31+00:00

Because the word 'hate' has emotional overtones. It evokes the knee-jerk reaction of every modern person who doesn't like unwarranted hate. If they called TRP "wrong" instead, they would have to back that up with facts and data. Since this doesn't exist, calling 'hate' is the next easiest thing to do. Feminists convinced women and the media that being absurdly entitled is normal. When you challenge that view, they react like when you take the ice cream from a child's hand: they throw a tantrum and cry to make their mama (the state & the media) to give them their ice cream back.

iluminatiNYC · 2014-06-27T19:46:09+00:00

I think it's mostly the tone. It's men talking to other men in a way that hasn't been available for public consumption in the past. Granted there are a few here and there that go way too hard on hating on the wimmenz or on racial stuff, but most of it is of a piece with how guys speak to each other with no women around.

Mikesapien · 2014-06-27T23:13:29+00:00

It's essentially a problem of definition. "Misogyny" is stretched to mean anything that upsets feminists/BP chumps.

I described the 2/3* Rule to a friend and he accused me of being a misogynist. I then replied, "Do you even know what misogyny is?" He fumbled for an answer, and I supplied, "It's the hatred of women for being women - this has nothing to do with that."

Feminist rhetoric renders "misogyny" useless. If it can mean anything, then it means nothing. They call us "misogynist" because "misogyny" sounds bad and they want to smear us, not because we actually fit the definition.

*2/3 Rule - for every three things your woman says or asks, you say/do two. This makes your words/actions the more valuable "currency" by way of their scarcity.

Deansdale · 2014-06-28T05:50:41+00:00

How do people find TRP misogynistic?

Most people are idiots. I know it sounds dismissive and/or simplistic but it is actually the correct answer.

Mouthpiece · 2014-06-27T20:23:24+00:00

Because any shift of power from women to men is threatening to women. No matter whether you think the balance is just right, or tilted to one side or the other, motion in either direction threatens the party against whom is moving.

The cries of "misogynist" and all the other hate speech used by detractors of this thread and subscribers are simply the most effective weapon they can use to fight back against that powershift. They have found the best way to suppress knowledge is to denigrate it.

jsl2837 · 2014-06-27T20:46:12+00:00

[deleted]

What is this?

EggzOverEazy · 2014-06-27T22:07:44+00:00

Because it is misogynistic. The same way that nature is misogynistic. Unfortunately or fortunately, regardless of how you want it to be, women are more emotional than men, crave leadership from men, desire men that have powerful, lean, muscular bodies, and do experience greater happiness being in a supplementary or supportive role (as opposed to independent / leader role).

Now I personally think understanding of these ideas is essential to loving women. You say you love women but when you speak I can tell you think of women as men with a different physical set of traits? You do not love women.

The highest form of love for a man is taking yourself and your woman off the pedestal and seeing both of you for what you are - and then being able to say, goddamn, that is beautiful in its own way.

Women, on the other hand, cannot love you if you are not pedestalized to some degree in their mind. They must conceive of you as something more, as not only a man or "alpha male", but something greater. To truly love a man, a woman must see him as higher, as a leader, as a hero in his own story, and most importantly, as a man who would dominate over other men and women if push ever did come to shove.

So, you are wondering, what the fuck does this have to do with why TRP us perceived as Misogynistic. Women are solipsistic in this regard meaning that BECAUSE THEY ASPIRE TO EXPERIENCE LOVE BASED IN HERO-WORSHIP, RESPECT, AND IDEALIZATION, THEY ASSUME MEN MUST BE THE SAME. Because women love in this way (love derived from respect and worship), what do you think happens when they see us mocking and eviscerating men who love in this female fashion? Massive mental dissonance and rage - how dare they reduce us to what we are, human matter, when we love by pedestalizing them!

Men learn a female conception of love from their mammas and early girl friends and TV. While this is a pussy drier and no woman actually wants this, this beta love serves a useful purpose - it validates how she as a woman loves. So it does feel misogynistic when we try to encourage guys to see women for what they are, because this girl is thinking "yeah well I don't see men for what they are, why can't you be illusioned like me!?"

Because we are different, love differently, and experience massive consequences if we love like you. Taking women off the pedestal is a prerequisite to being able to love a woman, not misogyny. But this will never be understood by society because women will always pedestalize certain men and then expect because of their solipsism that all men pedestalize them. Enough beta males will consistently do it to keep this brink attitude thriving.

bobby__peru · 2014-06-27T22:02:55+00:00

Because people here post ridiculous generalizations like "women always cheat" and that shit gets voted up constantly.

Because half of the posts here are just angry men doing their own gendered impersonation of a radfem sjw. Which means a whole bunch of entirely unfounded stupid nonsense about the other gender. Mainly because they are angry and rejected. Which makes sense - but they should just hit the gym and make themselves better instead of seeking support via shared hate from a group of internet strangers.

My point being that you are right, this place is mainly about the things you say. But if you see what a lot of the "TRP endorsed" posters spout- it's within the veins of what I described.

So people think it's misogynistic the same way people think that radfem sjw's are misandrists.

Like take this post for example. It's a joke, and funny. But it's exactly what I'm talking about. It's basically a straight up dysmorphia. It's exactly how radfem sjw's talk about men... "they are all rapists, etc. coveting our flesh while disregarding our minds yada yada". Men don't actually think that and I'm struggling to understand the kind of women people meet that would actually justify the post I linked to.

eof · 2014-06-27T17:29:23+00:00

Honestly, because the community is shit.. or.. there is a lot of shit in the community.

There is an enormous overlap between truly misogynistic people and truly TRP people; imagine a venn diagram with 50% overlap or something.

When genuinelly misogynistic guys are spouting redpill ideas and labels, it creates an association to those who don't bother to sift through the crud to get to the gems.

I've introduced several men and women to TRP ideas, and all of the women (and only most of the men) see some genuine novel value in the ideas being talked about, and theories revolving dissatisfaction in sex/relationships for both sexes. However all of those women (and none of the men) have also noted how much butt hurt angry men comments and articles there are; and how often even the good articles often have a scent of distaste for women.

For my part, I see TRP as essentially the theory that western men have largely become pussified due to historical idiosyncracies, and many actions and character attributes they have nurtured specifically as a way of interfacing with the opposite sex are actually counter productive.

TRP in its ideal form is increasing satisfaction for both sides of the relationship. TRP ideas can definitely be used to push a dishonest agenda; but ultimately TRP ideas "work" because they literally tingle ginas who weren't being tickled before.. and everyone loves a tickled gina.

Str8tuptrollin · 2014-06-29T00:45:30+00:00

They use that word so frequently I'm not sure what it means anymore

Petrarch1603 · 2014-06-27T17:18:34+00:00

If anyone does feel any residual contempt for women

GayLubeOil used to have posts that encouraged annoying women and being the 'black' knight. I called him out on it and his response was basically: 'shut up faggot'

He had some good insights, but he was a loose cannon and liked to outrage people intentionally. Fortunately he hasn't posted and the content here is pretty level-headed most times.

Traz_Onmale · 2014-06-27T17:25:44+00:00

I think people find it misogynistic that TRP applies values like you mention (confidence, independence, strength or high standards) to men only. See the article that's on top of the front page right now.

This leads to either of the following problems:

If these are universally good values, for all human beings, women are somehow excluded from humanity.
If these are purely masculine values, women who genuinely have these values themselves are seen as unruly and presumptuous.

Title	How do people find TRP misogynistic?
Author	EggzOverEazy
Upvotes	43
Comments	74
Date	June 27, 2014 3:38 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/298xi9/how_do_people_find_trp_misogynistic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/how-do-people-find-trp-misogynistic.17143 https://theredarchive.com/post/17143

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