Is your girlfriend cheating on you with her guy-friends? Or how modern relationships are flawed for men.

RedPillLawyer · 2014-12-08T17:41:10+00:00

Great post but for the title. Maybe something like:

Open Relationship: She Can Have Male Friends, You Fuck Whoever

On "Time Hos" A high SMV male shouldn't take this concept to the extreme. Mere association with hot girls will make you attractive to other hot girls. Just don't give something for nothing; everything is quid pro quo.

Do you have to listen to a hot girl's whining about her boss, coworkers, etc... via text? Absolutely do not. Should you invite a few hot girl acquaintances to a party? Sure.

TrainingTheBrain · 2014-12-08T17:48:02+00:00

Solid breakdown.

I'm usually writing about LTRs and you provided a point that I'd like to reiterate for those who are married or are in an LTR,

A fair monogamous relationship would mean, man can't have casual sex, and woman can’t have guy friends.

It is simply a fact that men and women cannot be friends. I do not give the slightest shit what the scenario is, there will be unnecessary drama eventually. He will develop feelings or she will use him to fill a void you've made at some point.

I don't hang with or have sex with other women, my wife doesn't have guy friends, it's simple and it works.

Solid write up /u/hinsbock

40Watts · 2014-12-08T18:17:04+00:00

The guys who made that video also made a second part. They show that women think it's acceptable to have guy friends while in a relationship, but would be uncomfortable if their boyfriend had female friends: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYQmqxQgEBY

RedPillWatchTower · 2014-12-08T19:58:07+00:00

If a woman asks for an Open Relationship^{^TM} , just get the fuck out and end it right there. She is either:

Already fucking another man

or

Has a man in her head already that she eagerly wants to fuck

Either way, asking for an OR is a way for a woman to assuage guilt about cheating, because if she has your "permission", then what's to feel bad about?

And besides, she knows damn well she's gonna win in the side-sex department, because as we all know, no matter what your SMV is, you are never gonna out-slut a slut. Just look at any poor douche in /r/relationships who gave his wife/gf an OR, and complains that she's getting plowed like a snow drift, and all he can get is his right hand. Then when you tell her you don't wanna deal with this OR stuff, she'll gaslight you and tell you that YOU are the asshole for trying to go back on the whole thing.

AppleNewton · 2014-12-09T05:25:20+00:00

A woman with a guy friend or sexless orbiter („we are just friends“) who validates her and actually „commits“ to her equals a man who has casual sex with other women without commitment.

Perfect.

A woman only has guy friends for 1-validation. 2- Future sex partner. They usually have 2-3 guy friends that will validate her and one guy friend she is keeping in her pocket for cocking her in the near future. She doesn't wanna have sex with him right now, but she will when she is single and willing to.

tombreck2 · 2014-12-08T17:40:34+00:00

Everything is spot on.

There is a divide here about whether or not men and women can be equal friends, I don't think they can, and I'm sure there will be some comments to follow debating that issue with personal situations.

bobbatosakosanose · 2014-12-08T19:39:17+00:00

Dude you are awesome. I love these original posts. Yes I believe you right. In muslim and other conservative backgrounds, male friends are pretty much forbidden for wives. Tom Leykis had a take on this in his "how to make a relationship work" series. Opposite sex friends and contacts with Ex's ruin it all.

[deleted] · 2014-12-08T19:39:03+00:00

Excellent, clear, and concise post Hinsbock. I like how you address Gaussian distribution before your argument (yes, not all women are like that, but statistically 7 out of 10 times, AWALT (not an actual statistic, just giving example)).

erokk88 · 2014-12-08T19:49:51+00:00

Wisdom I believe in firmly.

One caveat may be that a guy can't be friends with a girl with higher smv than him. If there is friendship AND attraction that isn't reciprocated that's a recipe for orbit but if there's no desire to date or have sex with the person, I can see it working (for a while). I have a good friend that I wouldn't sleep with even on a drunk night but I like hanging going out and doing things with her. We explicitly friend zoned eachother. Not that this is an exception, because for all I know she's just orbiting me.

[deleted] · 2014-12-09T04:44:25+00:00

[permanently deleted]

juanqunt · 2014-12-08T22:35:19+00:00

I knew most of this before, but still Mind=blown how well you just summed it up.

smokingmonkey420 · 2014-12-09T00:05:56+00:00

I know of one girl who I might call a friend even though we are really work colleagues and not much else. She's my age (27), married for about 10 years, two kids, doesn't drink or party and generally has her head on straight. Pretty sure he was her first and only. She's decent looking enough I would bang her. All the qualities of a unicorn.

I respect her relationship with her husband. I don't think I could respect myself if I tried to break up what they have. There could be nothing outside of him unexpectedly dying that would be worth it to me to get in the middle of that.

It's thanks to TRP that I can have this relationship with this woman. I know my boundaries and won't do anything stupid. If I was still BP and desperate for sex, there's no telling what I might try to do.

the_red_scimitar · 2014-12-08T20:33:36+00:00

Well, it's not about "proving you wrong", because honestly, people are too variable to put so neatly into such boxes. It's obviously your experience that these things are consistent. It isn't mine, however, and I do exclusively open relationships in which from the start, the fact of there being other partners is known.

When done right, it's pretty much impossible to cheat in an ethically open relationship, because chances are, you're already talking about the other people you are interested in. If you aren't, then you're relation isn't "open" - it's intentionally an "ignorant" non-monogamous relationship.

First off, as somebody who starts most relationships (and right now there are 3 that are pretty solid, and a couple more in the earlier stages, but rolling along) with sex, as long as it is made clear that one is not seeking a primary partner, the "wants him to commit" thing just isn't there. It is true, however, that many "pretend" polyamorists want to start their relationship monogamously to "solidify" it, and then open it up.

My opinion on that: it's absolutely not an open relationship. It is a standard one in which limited fucking around is acceptable, usually with very little to nothing said about it, other than that it is happening. This is "head in the sand" polyamory, and it is just polyfuckery. No "amory" at all, and usually by agreement, feelings are not allowed. In such a relationship, one is anticipating the emasculation of failing shit tests, and so expects to lose some interest. Planning to open it up later is just one way of saying, "I'm infatuated with you NOW, but that's not going to last, so..."

Frankly, polyamory rarely exists in the form that word was coined for in the 70's. And your definition of open is ridiculous. A real "ethically open" relationship means all parties involved are free to have the type of relationship they want with anybody they want to, and that all parties take the responsibilities to their partners (especially for health safety) very seriously. And if it is truly open, all involved know at least something about any other partners, and discussion about anything involving such is absolutely desired and accepted.

And yes, that's the type I have. However, few women honestly can go the distance on this. They often love the idea, but 3-6 months in, you can start to see jealousies, catty comments and what not. Those doing so get dumped, and I mean hard, if they can't set themselves straight. Such things have no place in an open and ethical relationship. And few people have the internal mental scaffolding to actually show and live "compersion" - the term in the poly community that means the opposite of jealousy - i.e. instead of being hateful about the things somebody else likes/loves that you are NOT involved in, one is happy about that.

Example: one relationship with a woman who had been into BDSM for most of her adult life. But I wasn't into it in the way she was, which was fine with both of us - she wanted something more normal, and had a couple she played with (and whom I met a few times, socially) who fulfilled the BDSM need. I was absolutely fine with that BDSM play - happy she got that need met. Compersion.

Anyway, most people can't do it. They just can't. Their oneitis kicks in if the open relationship is going well, and they start finding fault with other partners, and start to suggest in various ways to close it all up. Those are the "tourists", in my opinion, even when they've been doing what they think of as "open" for a long time.

You KNOW it's a real, open relationship when both parties are in a state of "fuck YEAH" consent when you get together, and you both can have fun showing each other your online dating stuff, including who you're talking with and so forth. Seriously - it's some hilarious shit.

dagnoob · 2014-12-09T01:01:41+00:00

Solid post, have to agree, wasn't the best title though :P

Prattler26 · 2014-12-09T01:13:50+00:00

Great article, can't disagree with anything, but the title is wrong as it doesn't match the content on the post.

Eatsnax · 2014-12-09T21:12:59+00:00

I have chicks I fuck and I have chicks I don't even want to fuck that are just my friends. I think on the male side it boils down to can a man be a friend with a girl that he finds really attractive. I say no.

I guess what I'm saying is I can't only be friends with a girl I want to fuck. That's impossible.

bleh321 · 2014-12-17T05:56:13+00:00

This is great however for those of us in a marriage/LTR how do we go about enforcing the understanding that male friends for women = side plates for men

rumo_itaki · 2014-12-08T21:48:01+00:00

I'm wondering how you would apply that to bisexual women. Or women with lesbian/bisexual/bicurious friends. And imho that is relevant because there are quite some women bisexual.

Also I don't see the polyamory vs. open relationship thing. Bc it really depends on the perspective. Imho it would be more "polyamory" if guys (which in your setting have a primary desire for sex) get their basic desire fulfilled with more than one person and women get their (your thesis primary desire of company) fulfilled with more than one man.

If guys have female friends that would in your setting hurt their gfs but wouldn't give "value" to them so it wouldn't be "love" but rather "cheating/open relationship". Same goes for women having sex with other guys - sure, it will hurt their bfs, but they are not actually having something they value themselve with someone els, therefore it is not "love"

huge_gap · 2014-12-09T02:20:38+00:00

As shown in the video, all the "guy friends" those college girls have are either beta-orbiters/emotional tampons or guys that they're looking to fuck because of superior SMV.

Look at that one girl who, at the interviewer's questioning, answered for herself that men and women can't be friends---but then states "they can still be friends." Major hamstering.

Men keep score of a woman's SMV.

For women, any situation can change a man's perceived SMV in the blink of an eye.

For example, a man they previously would NEVER fuck can get into their pants based on the circumstances.

TL;DR --- Female hypergamy is a swelling ocean of constant change. Keep vigilant, brothers.

Nitrobroom · 2014-12-09T08:09:42+00:00

Tl;dr it's a lot easier to cheat when your predecessors painted your cheating partners as socially acceptable and painted theirs as crimes against everyone's humanity.

mike6452 · 2014-12-09T05:41:50+00:00

dont get me wrong im a redpill alfw. but cheating is cheating. i refuse to accept a fact that men can cheat and have female friends while my significant other can only have male friends. its unfair and if you bitch about it you are no better than the fems that bitch about their problems. shit sucks that our brain is wired different. man up, dont cheat, and get over it

i_fix_thread_titles · 2014-12-08T21:36:40+00:00

Not really a fair comparison. A girl spending time with an orbiter for attention (one that she will certainly not have sex with) is very low risk to the guy in the relationship.

A guy banging a bunch of other girls risks pregnancy with them and exposes the girl he is in the relationship with to STDs.

Traz_Onmale · 2014-12-08T21:40:41+00:00

Such an open relationship would be a fair arrangement if both parties received equal validation. But I doubt that male friendship is as validating for a woman as casual sex is for a man. Sex is validating for women also, while female friends are not as validating for men.

BlackHeart89 · 2014-12-08T19:59:55+00:00

I have a female friend with whom I don't want to have sex with. In fact, I turned her down. Though I wouldn't mind receiving head from her. Just saying...

Is your girlfriend cheating on you with her guy-friends? Or how modern relationships are flawed for men.

Comments

2 doesn't make her your friend at all.

Title	Is your girlfriend cheating on you with her guy-friends? Or how modern relationships are flawed for men.
Author	Hinsbock
Upvotes	206
Comments	114
Date	December 8, 2014 5:27 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2onv80/is_your_girlfriend_cheating_on_you_with_her/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/is-your-girlfriend-cheating-on-you-with-her-guy.26033 https://theredarchive.com/post/26033