Just stop about this entrepreneur BS please...

lopsidedlucky · 2016-09-17T09:13:07+00:00

I used to own my own business and grew it to be successful. Here's coming from my experience.

I agree with most of what you're saying. People that think it's 40 hours or less, fuck no. People who think you can work in pajamas, well fuck yes. Just not all the time. Missing structure from a 9 to 5, no because you'll be working your ass off and that structure won't work anyway.

In my experience it almost entirely consumed my life. And it was glorious. Waking up knowing you have purpose and your success in your life is in your hands at every moment for you to move forward or fuck it up. 12 hour work days are not a problem since most of it is your business, your baby, your legacy and your money. Shit 48 hours straight is achievable with decent levels of cognition. Sleeping in your office is something you have to be prepared to do without hesitation.

Passion: The key is finding the business that gets you off and you'll need a clear vision of what you're trying to achieve. The business needs to be something your passionate enough to deal with red tape, government bureaucracy and pissed off customers.

Client relations: Seriously, you need to know how to deal with all levels of pissed off customers, clients and staff. They're just people and in many ways really children. Deal with them as such. If you don't have that skill set, hire someone who does asap and you stfu and let them do their job with customers and clients.

Know your weakness and hire people were those areas are their strengths and let them do the job you hired them for.

Growth: Grow it and get it successful enough with the right staff in place to throttle back a bit after a few years. It is hard to work out, have other interests and it will become difficult for you to relate to other people that don't have an entrepreneurial mentality.

Brain trust/network: You'll need to make friends with other businessmen or professionals that have entrepreneurial positions. You'll need mentors or trusted peers that can keep you going during the low points when you doubt what you're doing. Because if you're smart those points will naturally occur. If you're in business school your professors can be a bastion of consulting services during their office hours.

Side note, I even had time for a gf. Well she took what little time I gave her back then. Moving on...

Starting your own business and running it is extremely rewarding but again needs to be something you will bleed and sweat for. Unless you have money and are setting up a franchise or have another similar system set up and it can be a bit different after the 1st year or 2.

If I missed any grammar or spelling well, it's fucking late.

Edits: Text wall and words

AnotherPint · 2016-09-17T13:32:31+00:00

Anyone who thinks that going into business for themselves means they will "work less and make more" is an idiot and doomed to failure. And anyone who thinks they will become wealthy without having to take significant risk is a bigger idiot. I've been around both -- the former as clients, the latter as (onetime) business partners.

Lessons from 12+ years as an entrepreneur, in a partnership or independent:

You do not work for yourself. Your customers come first. Then your subcontractors and vendors, then your partners if you have them, then the tax authorities. You get whatever's left, which may be nothing.
Nobody pays invoices in 30 days even though they say they will. When they delay there's not much you can do about it -- taking them to court is a form of business suicide. Have plenty of money around to cover while you await receivables.
Some clients are assholes and there's not much you can do about it beyond writing strong scope / work agreement docs to stop them from running you into the ground. We have all worked for terrible clients because we needed the money in the moment. Chances are you will never get to fire one in a blaze of self-righteous glory.
There is rarely a case for forming a partnership. Many partners will observe you hustling and humping and decide you're doing enough for both of you and go to the movies. Alone is better. If you insist on trying to partner, find out everything you can about their personal finances first -- right down to their tax returns. If they're fucked, your partnership is fucked... now or later. Been there, done that, never again. You especially do not want women as business partners because they will treat the gig as a "work marriage," emotionalize everything to an insane extreme, and eventually conceal things and try to optimize the business for their sole benefit at your expense -- same as in a real marriage.
If you don't work, you don't eat. Things that corporate employees feel entitled to, like baby leave, health insurance, and paid vacations, are not free for you. You subsidize all your own benefits.
There is never a cigar-and-sunset moment when everything is going great. Something is always going south. You never relax. It's like managing a low-level but chronic disease.

The life is not for most people.

sierratangovictor · 2016-09-17T13:06:40+00:00

I am an entrepreneur , and here is my take on this.

TL;DR Version : I get to run my own show. OP has posted a very skewed version of what can be achieved. OP describes how to possibly be a good player in a circus, but there is more that one can do.

[Little bashing: Indians and Ethnics, I am an Indian myself. A side note to you : you can do better than any average alpha employee of ABC corporation regardless of your skin color. That is truly something that nobody can take from you. Godspeed.]

Disclaimer : If you want to be CEO of a reselling company dealing in Chinese goods, you will not find this useful. This will shater your world view, read at your own decision and risk.

First, we deal with the statements made by others:

every customer is now your Boss!

No, they are your targets. You work out what hits, calculate the probability of actual hitting, play a hand of chess with yourself, then decide whether to hit or not.

But can you make the decision yourself? To quote /u/Naveos :

Almost every CEO is responsible to answer to a board of directors and investors.

No, you play another game of chess with them. You hypnotize them, you manipulate them, if you are feeling particularly generous, you use Pascal's Wager with them. If you can't make it, then you use gambling tactics : put on X times of what you have put in the last step on the table. If the return is X times of your contribution, and if the return happens some day, in next Y years, then you will get all of your contribution + some more back. [Side note: if you look in my history, you will see I never manage to be this manipulative to women - because I am a romantic piece of &/$* when it comes to that, which I am slowly overcoming - as well as i am distancing myself from certain things - but that's beyond the point here.]

you select your working hours!

I do. In some cases it is 90 hours in a stretch without sleep. See below for details. But that is the price for win.

yeah, there is maybe one hour squash at 1pm but is it better than 9-5 and don't think about your job for the rest of the day..?

Yes, it is rather a trip to a war torn area in Bosnia, but it is totally worth it. I will rather access zones that the average TRP Alpha can't than work 9-5 to increase my SMV to get a pussy which Chad Thundercock also got without contributing anything. There has to be something that I can access, and that access, over past and present is exclusive to me. That is my win.

after a while you will start missing your colleagues, lunches together, some sort of system

Then I will go to Praha and have lunch with my friend another CEO.

I love when idiots think CEOs decide their own salary.

Don't be a CEO. be a CTO with a equal partnership in the company. Have a bleeding edge set of skills. In my case that varies from programming active satellites over DSN to prospecting for mineral to building various disruptive technologies. The entire spectrum I live to your imaginations.

Another bashing to Indians/Ethnics : I am your average (okey I am considerably taller) , thin, balding before 30 guy, and lack herd support. But I have skills. Remember, these skills are truly yours. Nobody can take them.

Hell, even Elon Musk is responsible to answer to a lot of people.

He is a bad example. He is 50% empty, 10% hope for large glittering mars colonies, and 40% other peoples work which he presents as his vision. If you don't believe google : History of <some idea of elon musk> and see what you come up with. The great point of Elon Musk is that he gives Engineers frustrated at a government level of things (e.g. NASA) a chance, because as a billionaire he has less to worry about political image of a national space agency ( = he worries less about a bursting rocket than the Natioanl Spce agency of any country, he has a larger error margin )

Seriously, you need to know how to deal with all levels of pissed off customers, clients and staff.

Don't get attached to them. They are your stepping stone. Learn when to feed them, learn when to drive a tank over them. No hard feelings. Everything they gets depends on your generosity. You don't cater to them, they beg you.

Lessons [Trigger warning for conservative thinkers]

Do not be the Alpha lion who is alpha in his pride, but plays in the circus, because there is always some overlord. Reject the notion of any higher overlord what so ever. The only thing that controls you is your dream, knowledge, morality, available resources and experience. In that order. Be the wolf. The lion may be the king of the Jungle, but the Wolf does not play in the circus.
Business is a game. In a mathematical sense, the word game has a larger and stricter implication than you are saying. So lock yourself in a library and study game theory and multiagent systems. Take a sheet of A1 (don't know the US equivalent) paper, and paint a picture representing your investors, customers, staff - all of it. Do you see any way to link your knowledge with the picture? Does any pattern show up? can you make a prediction? With what confidence level?
Every piece of traditional wisdom can go down the drain. You don't need to fit yourself to the need of others. Others will beg you to provide them. Every experience is negotiable. Every theoretical knowledge apply in practice, unless you have a bad theory or you are a bad executor. Don't be bad. Don't use bad theory. If you are stuck, then improve the theory. If the improved theory fails, you did it wrong. Try again.
Have an endgame. in relationship terms, this is what I actually miss. Increasing my Pussy count when my "turn" comes is not an appealing Endgame for me. However, it is simpler to develop an Endgame in business. As an extreme example, you can say, that you want to have twice as much wealth as the Koch Bro.s . Unrealistic? Irrelevant. It is a perfectly valid Endgame.
Growth towards the Endgame : Lock yourself in the library, and study L-System fractals . Take another A1 sheet of paper, you know the drill.
Do not bind yourself to the usual kind of business. Do not be the next CEO of the next restaurant - there are many of them . Find a place where there are no services, find multiple such niches, and go ahead - fill them up. This will make you independent to the market. This way, no free-market will assist you more, no communist market will hold you back.
Do not ride a "Big thing wave". Look at the sillicon valley. The Dot-Com Bubble has burst. Don't be the CEO of the "big thing" (currently IoT , Drones and 5G in high-tech areas) everyone is doing. Have a vision whose specific manifestation are some big things. Stop chasing the "big thing", stop putting them on pedestals. Instead have a vision like in 5 years, I want to beat google with human genealogy data (an example ...). In order to do that you might need to develop some technologies, some of which may be the said big things. Don't do big things for the sake of big things.
Start Early. I have started at 16 by programming controllers for automatic observation blimps. I wish i started at 8.
Work Hard. I spent my student days with obscure hobbies and studies which no one cared, which discriminated me. However, I worked at times 60 hours straight, and at times 100 hours straight. Without sleep. At the 90 hour point, in my case, I will loose the binocular vision. My two eyes will focus at two different things. I can't do more than 144 hours. That has been my absolute record with medication. You don't have to push things that much, but work REALLY hard.
Be an elite. Take the responsibility of an Elite, be an Elite. You do not become an Elite by incremental changes. You Start as an Elite. forget the idea of work in a company for 10 years, then start my business. Instead, start your business first. Beg, manipulate people for seed money. But no "incremental success" - that doesn't work.
When the time comes, demand the reward of an Elite. Do not be content that you got your millions when the time came. Instead your goal should be get those millions/billions which no one else got. Blaze your own trail, regardless of social proof. Believe it or not, society has needs, so whether they approve you or not, they will come begging you. Some will come to steal what is rightfully yours. Prepare to obliterate them. When it comes to obliteration, let me tell you a story. In many east Asian mythologies, there is a Demon. This Demon is given the blessing that it's blood, when touches the ground, will give birth to 10 new demons. However, when the time comes, the hero kills the demon by covering it in cloth and stabbing it under the cloth - so no drop of blood touches ground. See the mistake demon makes? Given the choice of life and death, the demon could have easily won, had he, at the first sight of the Hero, cut his hand and let his blood flow free on the ground, and ad infinitum. Moral of the story : facing the fight, depending on your endgame, you may need to prepare to sacrifice yourself. Remember, you are out for a war. Anybody who stands against you does not have any right to your mercy.

Naveos · 2016-09-17T11:00:01+00:00

People have a very skewed and romanticized perception of how it's like to run your own business. Maybe it's because humans tend to tailor their beliefs to suit personal views so they may feel cozy inside or because individuals look up to those successful CEO's and don't realize the amount of failure, work, and sleepless nights they've endured to get where they are.

No matter what you do (even if you end up with a very successful business), you will always be sucking somebody else's dick to get by unless you decide to go full "fuck you" but that also means saying goodbye to your business. Hell, even Elon Musk is responsible to answer to a lot of people. Almost every CEO is responsible to answer to a board of directors and investors. There is almost always somebody higher up that we do not see as outsiders.

"I always asked the question, ‘Am I the most powerful person in the room?’ The answer needed to be yes. To this day I still ask that question. And the answer is still yes. In every room in the entire world, the answer IS yes. With the exception of one…or two." - Phillip Price, Mr Robot S02E10

rumovoice · 2016-09-17T10:44:01+00:00

Alternative for software developers: work remotely with a flexible schedule. And you are not tied to any city or country either. You can move around the world and work from any place that has internet access. In the process you are actually saving money because in most places life is cheaper than in US. You can have most of the benefits of your own business and more without having troubles of owning a business.

Also: I'm a software dev and I've never been an employee in my life. It's so easy to start your own small company in IT especially if you partner up 50/50 with a good CEO-type guy. I usually work 2-3 hours a day except when starting new stuff 1-2 times a year. In those cases I work 12 hours a day for 2-4 weeks (just like an exam time in Uni).

IndyBrodaSolo · 2016-09-17T13:34:04+00:00

So you are saying that being entrepreneur is BS because it's hard? That's not Red Pill attitude at all. Masculine alpha men tackle big challenges and do not fear any hardship. Femine beta men seek comfort.

Frenetic_Zetetic · 2016-09-17T08:58:53+00:00

I own a business and it's a 24/7 challenge. Whether you have a traditional career or not, make sure it's in a field you'll never get sick of. I've found that most business advice doesn't apply and you really do have to suffer through trial and error for years. With that said, I'd much rather be in control of my time and money, no matter how challenging.

najaanwe · 2016-09-17T11:55:30+00:00

You're focusing on the stereotypical musings of people who talk the talk but don't walk the walk - they're just wannabes . For some people starting a business is more a testament of freedom and independence than founding the next Tesla. Freedom to both fail and succeed, mind you, but freedom nonetheless, and on their own terms. It's a rejection of the societal super-ego that tells you to float through life like everyone else, always seeking the next rung of validation from friends, family, colleagues and strangers. It takes brass balls and a certain humility. No, starting a business is not all flowers and rainbows, it's more akin to climbing Mt Everest - people do it to challenge themselves and assert their own agency. These are rare qualities and hence inspirational, but few people actually take the leap. Which is a good thing because few people are suited to it.

anon_pepe · 2016-09-17T10:14:41+00:00

"Stop making money for other people", read this shit so much. Yes I agree startups are so romanticize I work in software and so many people ask me why I don't start my company and pull in millions, they don't realize the chances of failure are way higher.

JRTB_96 · 2016-09-17T10:53:52+00:00

A bunch of people , almost none of whom are successful , writing about what it takes for success and owning a business . Wonderful .

JJMcgray · 2016-09-17T08:44:41+00:00

Most people who advise this either are clueless, or ripping you off.

for the book sellers

Their business is selling you that book. It may not be their prime business, but it's part of it. Even if they held the secret to making a profitable business, they are not gonna give you that info for $9.99.

So just read it for entertainment and maybe get "some"vague advice. But unless an author specifically says "I invested in c y and z and spoke to this person and this guy was a good asset" it's just hot air.

regarding posts from plebs like us

Being wealthy and successful is hard work. Rich people work A LOT. You are always working. Even at home. There is no true off time.

I had the price large of having a professor who actually was an active businessman. He lived in two states and commuter between work and teaching weekly. As in...he spent mon- Friday in my state an flew back to California for the remainder and came back the next week.

And that's between flying overseas for more business. It's time heavy.

And that isn't even touching on how hard it is to start up (regulations, fees, taxes , red tape) and grow. It's possible, but if it were easy everyone would do it.

Not saying people shouldn't try. Do it. If you have a solid idea then don't let anyone tell you that you can't. However, realistically you will fail for a massive amount of reasons. Even if your productions the next Ford automobile, there is a good chance some other company will so you out of business or get govt to step in and make your life hell.

Shits real.

Edit: one note (cause I wanna be helpful and share knowledge)

If you have an idea for a business (or to produce any idea) sleep on it. You will know your idea is the right one when weeks/months/years later, it's the one idea that will not go away.

That's the one you take to market.

Also. If your idea is solid, NEVER, share ownership with anyone. It will bite you in the ass 9/10 times. If your idea is solid, you don't need a co-owner to back you.

empatheticapathetic · 2016-09-17T12:49:46+00:00

Grew up working in the family business. My brother runs it now and has the social skills of a 10 year old despite being 40+. No social life, no time to live or experience literally anything. Living and working there fucked me up socially as well, I've lacked normal life experiences because of it.

Despite always having been financially secure, everyone in the family says the same thing "shouldn't have done it. We've all wasted our lives. We were happier before".

But that's just my experience.

leotard-princess · 2016-09-17T13:56:43+00:00

You cannot believe the life lessons, self reliance and personal dependence you get from running your own business. It's like acid, you wouldn't understand it until you've done it.

JackGetsIt · 2016-09-17T13:59:19+00:00

I think a lot of the push on redpill that recommends owning a business or entrepreneurship is coming from a place of the 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' financial philosophy. Most 'wage slaves' will never grow to become truly financially independent because they have a mindset of 'income will never change so save money and budget' instead of 'grow and manage assets'. The wealthy of this country don't think about wages, they think in terms of growing and managing assets and then reinvesting profits.

Here's a video that helps explain this mindset a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abMQhaMdQu0

edit.

I also want to add that there are a lot of young men on redpill and reddit in general that are in neither of the above categories. That don't save and budget and they don't have a 'grow assets' mentality. They just have a consume, spend, mooch off of parents/girlfriend/government mentality. That's a whole different ball of wax. If you're this person (and a whole chunk of the United States is) then Dave Ramsey is a good start.

NeoreactionSafe · 2016-09-17T13:02:07+00:00

Rich means personal savings so you have the power.

Income
Outflow

What matters is not the source of income, but the ratio between income and outflow. The wise man can work as part of a corporation and simply not overspend.

The typical person raises his outflow to equal his income.

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

...so just don't be foolish.

Work as necessary to recapture freedom.

PRAISE_BE_TO_YEVON · 2016-09-17T10:03:54+00:00

I can definitely echo this statement. I started a business four/fivr years ago and it was more than a full time commitment. Not only that but failure is a real and common thing for new businesses. Most of them go under. Money will always be tight even though you have people to pay and your own bills to meet. The pay-off will only come in a couple of years when you turn a profit.

I didn't make it. After a year the business went bust. And it left me in horrible debt and with horrible mental afflictions.

Since then I have been paying a lot of attention to my mental and physical health and I have been monitoring my workload in life to avoid getting any sort of burnout ever again.

I plan on creating another product in the future and starting a business around it, but as of right now I don't have the mental and physical strength to go through it all again.

There were definitely a lot of upsides that can make it worth it but its more of a timesink than a full time job is. And unlike a full time job its for people that at that time have a lot of mental and physical fortitude. Even though I still think its a thing every man should try and start in the later stages of his life, I don't think that TRP newcomers- the typically depressed and frustrated- are in a good position to take on something like this.

TL:DR; starting a business can bring a lot of value to your life, but it is HARD and should definitely be viewed as the high risk/high reward as it is. Often times the high risk thing doesnt get enough attention.

PS: when I talk about a business I'm refering to startups and any other business model that employs other people. I'm not talking about freelancing/consultancy which technically is still entrepreneurship but in my opinion is not on the same level of high risk/high reward as a business

Mrbasie · 2016-09-17T11:44:44+00:00

Not everyone want to have colleagues, lunches and be a social beast... Some people want to solve problems and make money whilst doing it. They find it more fulfilling.. If its not for you fine but its not bs... Someone had to invent the platform with which we are communicating now and they prolly were entrepreneurs

MoneyStatusLooks · 2016-09-17T13:57:59+00:00

On the other hand, I've become a millionaire from my small online business and it's definitely improved my SMV, freedom and happiness.

That said it's not for everyone and the path is FUCKING HARD. I worked for 3 years barely earning minimum wage type money before I "hit it big". If you don't want to work 80 hour weeks to get it going, don't start.

It's not required, but all things being equal, money improves SMV. In the same way abs and chiseled jaw does, in the same way having game and being good socially does.

They are all factors, some more important than the other, it's purely mental masturbation/pissing contest when people try and say one is more important than the other and claim the other is not important at all.

nonthaki · 2016-09-17T11:36:59+00:00

You fool , working to get money is to secure your own future & not with Only aim to get bitches, which some betas and alphas think. When you are old & like grandpa , do you think You will have the same efficiency in getting women ?

RedEyesBlueShades · 2016-09-17T13:50:59+00:00

Great post. This stuff needed to be said. What I'll add is this.

Statistically you are better off in a 9-5 job!

Yep, that's right. When you consider the failure rate of new businesses, that you'll work a long time for free, and that you'll have to put in tons of hours to be successful, the rational decision is to go 9-5. And this is both for money and life quality.

This has actually been researched, so not making random empty claims.

Does it mean you should never start a business? Rationally yes. In practice it means that only certain personalities will thrive in a personal business. A bit of a gambler, a bit of a wild child, a bit of a daring soul? Then a start up is the way to go. Otherwise? Much better off in 9-5.

ppezaris · 2016-09-17T15:24:55+00:00

Couldn't disagree more. I am a three time successful entrepreneur who bases part of my identity on having accomplished something I am very proud of in my career. I have nothing but encouragement for anyone thinking of starting a business.

It is a ton of work, and at times can be very difficult, but it is also rewarding beyond description.

stickfiguresk · 2016-09-17T12:54:01+00:00

The simple RP doctrine/solution to being your boss's bitch at work is to be your own boss. No matter how difficult that is to accomplish, that truth will not change.

This thread is valuable insight into owning your own business, but detracts from a TRP law. I think you could've formulated your post in a way that doesn't further dilute TRP.

every customer is now your boss

Assuming you don't put all your eggs in one basket, you can next customers. You can't next your boss.

glawkneintehn · 2016-09-17T13:36:37+00:00

Yeah if you're truly dedicated on succeeding with your business you're on that 5-9 not 9-5 grind

onmyownpath · 2016-09-17T14:18:06+00:00

A lot of what you say is right.

Two things:

1) Growing a small business can make you very wealthy. The key is to grow a real business, not just a job. If you want to grow a business you have to watch for several years while everyone makes more money than you. You have to pay others to work and not keep the profits. Rather, you must put the money back in and keep losing it until you figure out what systems work. You might never figure it out and you might fail. It is a very real possibility. I have had several major failures that knocked me on my ass. Very painful lessons.

2) It is not for everyone. If you can keep a good job making decent money, you probably should. Many of us have no choice. I suffocate in a job. There is just no other option for me but to own businesses. Finally after many years of effort and learning, my life is unbelievable. I will be mostly retired at a young age. You have to decide if you are willing eat shit for a few years so you can live the dream later.

If you are not built for it, depression and suicide are real dangers.

But, if you are young and want to try it, take a few years and give it a shot.

[deleted] · 2016-09-17T14:59:40+00:00

I stepped down as CEO of my company a while back, needless to say it was the best decision I could've made since I honestly didn't have the skills to continue growing it and the management... oh the management. I'll probably start another business within the next 3 years tho. Best days of my life revolved around bootstrapping my business and growing it bit by bit. Now that I have more capital, I can be riskier and go for the tech sector.

papa_squatin · 2016-09-17T17:01:51+00:00

This post reeks of sour grapes. You failed in your dream and are discouraging other people from trying. No, it's not for everyone. And no, it's not the easy road some people think of it as. But not everyone is cut out to be an employee as you seem to be.

entrepreneur BS

I bet that makes you feel better when your boss dictates your life and tells you what to wear.

grewapair · 2016-09-17T19:27:38+00:00

My last vacation was in 1997. I'm completely serious.

TrumpRules2016 · 2016-09-17T13:52:31+00:00

Dude, thank you.

Trp annoys the fuck out of me with some of these "idealized" roles for men. Either your in finance or "starting a million dollar business," otherwise you're doing it wrong.

You can kill it the corporate world. It doesn't make you a bitch.

Trp needs to relax with these fantasies and crutches they lean on to excuse where they are right now.

BlacknOrangeZ · 2016-09-17T11:09:56+00:00

Thank you. That other thread on the topic framing employment as "slavery" was ridiculous. Complete bullshit.

And that's coming from a relatively successful entrepreneur worth millions by my mid 20s. I don't pretend to ignore two very important factors: Most people can't do it, and that's ok; and there are significant costs.

I have as much respect for the man doing everything in his power to live independently and pay his own bills in a minimum wage job, taking responsibility for his life and not blaming his problems on anyone else, as I do the entrepreneur maxing out his lucrative potential.

The Red Pill ought to be about being the best man you can be. You are competing with yourself to achieve that. Some people simply aren't very bright or innovative, and that's okay. Do the best with the cards you're dealt, that's all anyone can ask of you.

And while the money is nice, it can also go the other way and ruin you. It can ruin your social life, as it did mine. Working 40+ hours straight frequently and dealing with all that stress and responsibility is not conducive to a fun and fulfilling life.

There are no slaves and slave masters. Capitalism is founded on the virtues of voluntary, mutually beneficial exchange. That is what makes it such a superior and natural system, both in terms of morality and efficiency. If the best deal for you - in consideration of your goals, needs, desires, skills, experience, opportunities, etc - is to trade your labour for a guaranteed wage then you would be mad not to favour employment. Especially when you're driving home at 5pm on Friday without a worry in the world.

Alpacash · 2016-09-17T14:41:40+00:00

Never heard anyone saying that owning a business is easy. Now it's obviously not for everyone, but there is no harm in trying to see if it works for you.

BehrGris · 2016-09-17T18:00:28+00:00

As someone who doesn't work a 9-5, I'd have to say it completely depends on the person. Personally, I can't work a 9-5 job; I get sick of it after 2-3 weeks.

However, sometimes I try to bring people into making money with me, but they prefer the secure paycheck and low risk of a standard job, even if the paycheck is a hell of a lot less than what I'd teach them to make.

Not everyone is meant to work for themselves and though that may seem strange to me, it's perfectly fine.

iwanttout · 2016-09-17T19:22:39+00:00

Most people just don't realize that ALL WORK SUCKS. If it wasn't work it wouldn't suck. The problem is that in order to run a successful business, your work ( all work sucks) will become your life. If something was easy, everyone would do it.

play_time_is_over · 2016-09-18T12:20:57+00:00

Sounds like you where freelancing / consulting / contract worker and ot a business owner.

Does your business have any employee's besides you? No? Then it's not a business. You're a sole trader at best.

If you're the only employee it is not a business!

jimjackjoe · 2016-09-19T01:20:15+00:00

I disagree with the "every customer is your boss" part. Usually, you have one boss above you at work who you have to placate. But if you have hundreds or thousands of customers, it's not a big deal if some of them leave. You just have those hundreds of other "bosses" who you can give more of your time to now. Often you're happy when the customers who leave you, leave you. Because it wasn't the right fit anyway and it's better for both parties.

In the end, all my clients are totally free to leave, as far as I'm concerned. But you can't tell your boss, "Hey, if you're unhappy, you're free to leave and find someone better to do the job." You see what I'm saying? Totally different relationship.

All of the "reality" bits of your post are, ironically, clichés unto themselves about how hard being an entrepreneur is. The "it's such hard work" cliché is so grating and annoying. It can be, but if you like what you're doing, it can feel like not-work.

I think "don't think about the concept of entrepreneurship at all" is the best advice for any young person starting a business. Don't buy into any of the clichés, both the "easy life" clichés and the "hard work" clichés. The "hard work" cliché is actually far more common and dangerous, as far as I'm concerned.

drqxx · 2016-09-17T13:24:11+00:00

JOB stands for Just Over Broke.

Yeah sounds like you gave up before your trees started bearing fruit on their own. I've ran a Technology business for 13 years the first 5 are exactly as you described. Long work hours; little pay; and lots of hard lessons.

However the last 7 have been me fucking around doing what I want. I spent the past two days in the ocean scuba diving while my office handled itself. I maybe worked 10 hours this week. The hungriest wolf always eats. So find a way or find an excuse.

Don't come here and spread your

Failure venom

on us. Go revaluate your situation/goals, or just keep your J.O.B.

RedPillFusion · 2016-09-17T12:58:01+00:00

Your post comes across as straight up hamstering. It isn't being suggested that owning your own business is the only no shit path to being a RP sage. That's a strawman argument. It is one path that an overwhelming majority of people start without a plan, resources, mentorship, or even shrewd critical thinking skills and vision.

jewishsupremacist88 · 2016-09-17T13:33:19+00:00

the truth is..the concept of a stable job is not available to most people anymore unless you're highly educated/skilled.

ikkyu_ · 2016-09-17T14:55:56+00:00

I think the ultimate goal is to recognize what YOU ultimately want to do, what you'll love the fuck out of, and do it.

Some people have their own businesses because even after all the bullshit, they're actually happy. Some people are doing it because they're not honest with themselves and they THINK it'll make them happy, but it won't. They're more in love with the idea of being an entrepreneur than being an entrepreneur.

You could swap in investment banking... backpacking Thailand... and so on.

At the end of the day, the guy who's living in alignment with what he wants to do is the happiest and most successful guy. The dude who's living out of alignment is unsuccessful internally, even if he's outwardly wealthy/baller.

GreatWhiteCuck · 2016-09-17T14:56:51+00:00

I know an incredibly succesful dude who worked/works a minimum of 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. And also got very lucky as well. He enjoys his work though, it's his life and passion. He's never had any other hobbies, besides reading and drinking maybe. Weird dude but the most incredibly motivated and driven

WidmerBeer · 2016-09-17T15:09:15+00:00

I have experience belonging to two small businesses within the same industry. One which had been around for ten years, the other which was less than a year old.

My old boss at the ten year company never worked her ass off. I always worked my ass off and was paid shit wages. I'm talking dirt cheap and that's why I walked out. I was running the damn show many days, one time waking up at 3:30AM and working until 6:30PM. And for what? My shitty wage I received? Result: I disliked the company. Stuck there for a year to learn the industry which I did. After I notched a year on my belt I informed the company that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze and leave the company.

Less than two weeks later I get a phone call. The following Monday I had a new job. The boss of a rival company that was less than a year old found me because he heard I had a great reputation and they were looking for a new employee with experience.

At this company which was less than a year old the new boss works his ass off. I bust my ass only some of the time, but there are tough days which most jobs have. I get accommodated above average for what I do, my lifestyle has shot up tremendously because I can afford it now, and truthfully, I have lots of downtime compared to the old job since the company is organized. Work is divided up equally among employees! Not to mention the boss helps the employees out any time he can. I enjoy the company and I've been there for almost two years now.

Guess which company is now larger, more successful, and more profitable?

Being a business owner is easy. Being a successful business owner will require hard work and understanding.

phx-au · 2016-09-17T15:20:36+00:00

True.

This is why I work for startups, rather than start my own businesses.

In my industry 9/10 fail. That's out of 10 fairly serious and skilled people. I'd prefer to be working for 9 and have them fail while dumping money into my consulting account than to lose 90% of my investments in trying to build some shitty business that's going to take 60 hours a week of my time.

tetsuya80 · 2016-09-17T15:34:26+00:00

reality: every customer is now your Boss!

Instant upvote.

I'll quote the following from Paul Graham

http://www.paulgraham.com/before.html

Startups are all-consuming. If you start a startup, it will take over your life to a degree you cannot imagine. And if your startup succeeds, it will take over your life for a long time: for several years at the very least, maybe for a decade, maybe for the rest of your working life. So there is a real opportunity cost here.

Larry Page may seem to have an enviable life, but there are aspects of it that are unenviable. Basically at 25 he started running as fast as he could and it must seem to him that he hasn't stopped to catch his breath since. Every day new shit happens in the Google empire that only the CEO can deal with, and he, as CEO, has to deal with it. If he goes on vacation for even a week, a whole week's backlog of shit accumulates. And he has to bear this uncomplainingly, partly because as the company's daddy he can never show fear or weakness, and partly because billionaires get less than zero sympathy if they talk about having difficult lives. Which has the strange side effect that the difficulty of being a successful startup founder is concealed from almost everyone except those who've done it.

Piediver · 2016-09-17T16:48:55+00:00

Own rental properties, and work from home managing them.

redwormcharlie · 2016-09-17T19:28:31+00:00

Speaking from personal experience, and for what I do now, the most unrewarding job title is "small business owner".

There is something to be said about being someone's best employee. I dream of going back to being that. The stress is overwhelming.

stawek · 2016-09-17T20:01:30+00:00

Any of you young guys out there: before you get your own business work as a salesman for a few months and see it yourself.

Sales is the closest to running your own business. Go see how nice it is :)

Akela_hk · 2016-09-17T22:16:33+00:00

I've run small independent and large corporate business entities. I would never choose to own my own business in any economy on this disgusting planet, unless it was a black market business. Not worth it for your health, sex life, and skill set building.

TermsOfColors · 2016-09-17T23:53:56+00:00

I think the disconnect comes from the perception that some of these guys have, that they'll have a business making bank and walk around jacked from spending 2 hours a day in the gym and a harem of young women they service every night of the week. It definitely does not work that way.

I have my own software consulting company but I started in the corporate world. I diversified into rental property with the help of a good mentor years ago (I'm in my 40's). There are a few headaches that goes with that but I have some good people helping with it and the cash flow is really good.

I've spent a lot of time sitting around airports and on planes... for a while there in my 20's I would exit a 8 hour or 15 hour flight on a Thursday or Friday evening and head straight to the clubs to meet up with my friends. But even with that said, it was brutal on the social life. Nobody wants to pull that schedule into their 30's or God-forbid 40's.

I will also add here, if you plan to make a career of software development, you're going to have to spend a LOT of free time keeping your skills and knowledge up to date. Don't think you're going to bang out a few websites and be some kind of guru. I've been doing this for 20 years give or take. I remember flying out of San Jose in the early 2000's on a 767 with barely a dozen people on it, thinking "I hope they all had a back-up plan".

It's all a hustle, boy.

Expectations1 · 2016-09-18T11:55:55+00:00

There was a great quote someone said, "Entrepreaneurs work 80 hrs a week so they dont havebto work 40 hours a week", not sure who said it.

2MuchButter · 2016-09-18T15:32:07+00:00

I’ve watched how running a restaurant business with my parents, putting 60-80 hours a week watching it almost cost my parents their marriage, while never having time for their kids or vacation.

Fuck. That. Shit.

Right now, I work ONLY 40 hours only per week, at a 160k+ a year job with perks up the ass including a company trip to tropics for a weekend every year. I have six weeks of leave, where I spent in a foreign country(ies) this year it was Eastern Europe. I have a small business, I run with a trust worthy partner helping small businesses, doing side consulting. I go to the gym, take one day a week to hit on bitches at the local college. When I’m not going out, I spend that time taking an online course, meditating or reading.

That's the life bros.

Transmigratory · 2016-09-18T22:10:58+00:00

I agree with you. People shouldn't just lionise entrepreneurship without showing the stressful part of it and the downsides relative to say working. Pitch the full picture and let the able go for entrepreneurship and spare the lot who'd find it a big mistake because they couldn't hack the drawbacks that come with it.

blackedoutfast · 2016-09-19T03:42:00+00:00

A+ man.

Right after I finished school, I didn't want to work in a typical 9-5 office job wearing a suit, so I decided I would start my own business. Thought for a while and came up with a service I could do, that not a lot of other people were doing. Not very interesting, mostly just doing paperwork for people, but I would be the boss of the company.

My angle was that I was going to offer a higher level of service a much more modern product than the existing competiton. It eventually failed but I did learn an important lesson though: the reason not a lot of people were offering that service was because there weren't a lot of people with a NEED for that service. And my competition was a couple of well-established people with a good repuatation who had been doing a decent job for years. The customers liked my higher quality work, but they only bought it if I lowered my prices to a level that completely eliminated my profit margin. Wasted a year+ of time and $30,000+ in debt trying to make it work before giving up.

Finally realized I had to get a shitty normal job so I didn't end up homeless. Bounced around and eventually found a job with a company no dress code, no set hours, and I could do it from anywhere in the world. And I'm actually getting paid instead of losing money 24/7. I think I have a boss, but I haven't seen him in years. So even though I'm not an entrepreneur, I've found a corporate job that gives me all the things I was trying to get from entrepreneurialism.

I would like to someday give it another shot though. Every now and then I'll see a need that needs to be filled and brainstorm solutions to see if there's anything valid to pursue. Every now and then I'll play around with some random ideas. Usually the time:profit ratio isn't worth it to do as a side job, and it's not the kind of thing that can be automated or scaled up.

ThrwAway4Reasonsssss · 2016-09-17T16:06:21+00:00

I have a side business (insurance agency). I did it solely for a few years and then decided I needed the structure of full time work again for my own life balance. I still make money passively from it but don't market except to take on referrals as new clients.

My most compelling kernel of wisdom I squeezed out of it is this: "You can be successful starting your own business if you would still bust your ass at work everyday regardless of whether or not you got fired for not showing up, or if you didn't necessarily get paid when you did."

Seriously, take away those two primary motivators for going into work in the morning (negative if you don't, positive if you do). 99% of people rely on those two bumpers to get down the road I think. If you're in the 1% that has that special blend of self-motivation and discipline, you definitely should do it. If you're the other 99%, don't.

Sunshine12e · 2016-09-17T21:45:53+00:00

Also, don't forget that one accident or illness can cause a business owner to lose everything. My father suffered financially twice due to unforseen circumstances. Had he had a regular job, someone would have covered for him and he could have gone right back to his position after recovering ( the 1st time). I have been telling my ( somewhat unhealthy) son for years, go to school and get a good job. If you want a business, do it on the side. After he saw his grandmother become ill and realized that had she not had her children to look after the business, that she would have lost everything, he finally realizes that business is not the best way to go ( Unless one has a spouse who works a stable job with a steady income, but even then the risj is HUGE).

victor_knight · 2016-09-17T10:57:31+00:00

I up-voted this even before I finished reading it.

ReddittFeist · 2016-09-17T08:53:13+00:00

'marry not so attractive older Chinese woman'

Ummmm ... what's the connection between running a small business and marrying an older Chinese chick?

spitefulmilkshake · 2016-09-17T09:11:28+00:00

Thank you!

Now there's the question on how to turn the finance flair into something with actual sound and actionable advice.

MGTOW_player · 2016-09-17T12:10:20+00:00

Having done this myself once the legitimate way it was a great learning experience that ended up not going where I wanted it. Made a little big of money, definitely didn't lose anything, and met some great people. However, I lost out on easily $250k+ in earnings that I would have made staying at the job I left and possibly higher future earning at where I ended up after giving up the business. It was still worth it. However I minimized risks.

Overromanticizing running your own business can cost you opportunities that lead to even greater rewards and freedom in the future. At companies, especially STEM related, there are usually a handful of really talented and driven individuals.

Sometimes these guys form teams at or outside of work to tackle problems. After time they get really good at solving a specific niche of the business. Sometimes the leaders at work make bad organizational or personal decisions which cause the good workers to want to leave. Sometimes these guys realize how dependent the company is now on their knowledge and processes and decide to strike out on their own or at another company.

Their cumulative experience combined exponentiates the attractiveness of their product/service to customers, investors, and/or other business interests. Effectively branch swinging from their employer to a much more attractive opportunity.

So don't get into the ego game of "I have to be my own boss" and let the impatience stymie your professional life. Most people have to build wealth slowly. No shame in that. Just make sure whatever you're doing that you're enjoying your life and are not taking huge risks like getting into debt, especially if you don't have an easy way to pay it off like with a fallback to a well-paying STEM job if things go wrong, which they do 95% of the time.

Best of luck to everyone out there.

DoerOfStuffAndThings · 2016-09-17T12:43:25+00:00

This applies to small businesses based on retail sales, which ends up being just a stressful job like you describe. There are much better alternatives.

Just stop about this entrepreneur BS please...

Comments

JOB stands for Just Over Broke.

Failure venom

Fortune favors the bold.

Title	Just stop about this entrepreneur BS please...
Author	hb8only
Upvotes	234
Comments	173
Date	September 17, 2016 8:11 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/536esp/just_stop_about_this_entrepreneur_bs_please/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/just-stop-about-this-entrepreneur-bs-please.62362 https://theredarchive.com/post/62362