After spending so much time on theory & then taking a break from this subreddit & others, I've noticed that a lot of the 1000s of pages of advice is just a lengthy way of saying "learn how to be good at banter while owning what you say, having boundaries, and not being reactive. Then just approach".

harryhoudini66 · 2019-12-18T01:18:10+00:00

Yes, every book says the same thing. They just worded differently or frame it differently. Outside of the world of seduction, every self help book or books on how to be happy and learn to love yourself also say the exact same things.

We_Broke_Up · 2019-12-18T02:24:26+00:00

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lirik89 · 2019-12-18T05:04:30+00:00

I've been consuming this kind of material almost 15 years and came to the same conclusion. I remember when I first started it was more ebooks now with YT, I've gotten glimpses on video and really these guys have for the most part some structure they have mastered and just keep using it over and over they just tweak it slightly everytime. It's a numbers game.
I've never been a master player out there but most of what I know is from these guys. In the end, though I think this all misses a point. The point of real seduction. The point of real seduction is that you end up with someone you actually want.
I've rarely pulled someone I actually want through these kinds of methods. Everyone I have actually wanted to be with has come from some natural occurrence I could have never expected and mostly it came effortlessly.

2019-12-18T06:39:34+00:00

Half of it is getting past the fear of rejection and actually make the approach

abocyd · 2019-12-18T03:52:37+00:00

I like this thread. The simple advice, that comes off as a hard to swallow pill, is very effective at communicating your points, while still being easy to understand. This format of speech also exudes the, "Deal with it and don't complain," type grit that has become associated with confident masculinity. I would say you've probably applied it to yourself for a while, and were rightly confused, as to why everyone was so stuck-up on being misguided.

"Overconsumption of theory," was well put. While you're all playing 8th dimensional chess, she's just having fun existing. And then you all wonder why you didn't connect.

billgrimes5 · 2019-12-18T04:26:20+00:00

I’m very intrigued when people mention numbers game in terms of pickup.

Because sure in the beginning, that might be the case, like throwing basketballs into a hoop.

If ten three pointers is your goal, and you suck but you attempt a thousand shots there’s a good chance you’ll still make it. But once you are actually skilled, someone who has become a professional at basketball for instance almost never misses. So don’t lose sight of the fact that “if you properly work on your game it still is a numbers game” that’s an incorrect paradigm. You could have a very high success rate and be average looking, 80, 95 percent of the time going into a set and getting a phone number. Completely unreliant on how many approaches you make. Numbers game is not how pros look at it, because they don’t expect to fail since the pattern is success. And if we are being honest social dynamics happen all the time. You might not practice basketball 8 hours a day, but socializing (interacting with others), innergame, being interesting, is something you can easily work on 8 hours a day.

elloimoise · 2019-12-18T05:12:00+00:00

To a T, brother.

I ‘m not unnatractive, but definitely feel at times i check girls out more than vice versa....interesting takes. Thanks for the simplicity.

GodJefe · 2019-12-18T03:28:44+00:00

What are good videos where they demonstrate what you published in this post. How exactly is it to be good a socially calibrating? Is there a book or video that explains this? Good post

ImJustSo · 2019-12-18T13:09:52+00:00

The thing is any guy that's experienced with women knows that getting women is simple. Trying to explain how simple it is to inexperienced men is complicated on the other hand, because they will constantly question shit like, "Well, what about looks, don't they matter, because I'm ugly?"

Then you have to break it down for them. You have to say that your face or your body isn't 100% of what your appearance is based on. So then you discuss all the things that are changeable. Then they say, "But I'm obviously still ugly, or I'd be getting girls."

Then you have to explain that your beliefs about your own appearance don't matter, but what does matter is having a positive belief about yourself or you'll exude that negative self belief.

Then you have to explain that regardless of self belief, you still have to touch a girl.

It keeps compounding, one after another until you end up with post after post on various topics to address the same shit.

Then you read posts like this that confirm your self beliefs, that your negative beliefs about looks is why you don't succeed with women.

Then guys that actually have experience read posts like this that attempt to downplay the hard work they put in to actually see results.

Then those guys just think, "Ok, fuck you. You know everything, why should I bother helping anyone move from their current position to a better position with women?"

So, I guess, fuck you dude. Seduction is a long road and my looks were a tiny piece of the puzzle. I got hot and still sucked shit with women. I didn't even know I was hot, because I wasn't attractive yet.

So that's why we say looks don't matter, because for many of us, it sure didn't feel like it. Something was missing.

It's just as frustrating to be "hot" and still be unattractive, because you're still not attractive.

I still don't believe I'm hot, I just believe I'm attractive.

telemanzoo · 2019-12-18T12:14:08+00:00

When I watch infields, I always feel like the girl just liked the guy (thought he was handsome? Just her type? Whatever)

And he was able to be socially normal, make the odd joke, and then escalate.

YOu never see someone banging a girl who wasn't remotely receptive to his open, though.

It implies we've all been lied too for decades, thb (you can't' make a girl attracted with your game)

When I chain watched RSD infeilds, I realised that the part of their 'game' that could be taught, was simply a few funny recycled sentences that made the girls laugh. The rest of their game was just being normal, tbh.

It also explains why all the apparent experts disagree on so much. In no other field of expertise do 'pros' disagree on basically everything lol

People like mystery have some really bad infields out there, and I feel like they only get laid due to mass approaching/having other things in their favour (like mystery was 6ft 5 and was a semi-famous magician with huge social proof etc). Also kinda handsome.

Read lay reports on sklledseducer. Again, it's guys patting themselves on the back for their 'game', but it's always a case of a girl who was super receptive. She just thought he was hot and he didn't mess it up. It's not 'seduction', though. I think maybe 'seduction' isn't possible. And the guys there who call themselves 'advanced' seem to just be massively overcomplicating everything in field without realising they had her at 'hello' and they pulled in spite of their odd sounding verbals/frames/bla bla bla, and not because of them

GeoffTheArteest · 2019-12-18T04:11:16+00:00

Honestly, the studying of theory is essential in my opinion.If you were an accountant, you better off going to school, getting an education, then applying that to your accounting job. Similarly, the theory in social banter with women is a framework that gives a sense of direction and understanding to interactions. Once there is a somewhat basic framework of theory layed down for interactions, you can then go apply it, and further develop upon it. But the theory helps builds the foundation to grow from in my opinion.

Lord_Goose · 2019-12-18T08:18:49+00:00

And you seem to be overthinking it but in the opposite sense. You get the mindset and everything else flows from it. Obviously if you are obsessed with thinking in your head its gonna go wrong.

Visualize_ · 2019-12-18T09:20:13+00:00

I think studying theory has its merits but a lot of people aren’t looking to become a pickup god at the level of like Todd V, and they probably would be satisfied in an area where you wouldn’t even need to understand all these techniques.

Like you said, confidence and banter is pretty much enough and that comes through experience. Pickup theory fine tunes elements of that, but at its core I think understand your own style of game through experience is probably more effective as long as you are self aware and take time to reflect

Darontos · 2019-12-18T14:20:21+00:00

Is "hey i came to say hi because i thought you are attractive" a bad approach? Or only when it is not authentic?

red_heads_dead_69 · 2019-12-18T05:38:19+00:00

great post, but could you explain 3 & 4 about crossing lines and playing the numbers game?

nameisahmad · 2019-12-18T10:08:47+00:00

I think the best think you should do is one on one coaching, the theories is basically extra shit for mastering the your game

VDKay · 2019-12-18T13:33:07+00:00

Well, it makes sense. Seduction is a high-level intricate human interaction, and there are millions of different cases, but the baseline mechanisms that govern it are pretty much the same throughout every case. However, these concepts are not very easy to grasp and it needs both theoretical knowledge as well as practice in order to become better.

Even if the basics are the same, here are so many different advice and so many different approaches because different advice are ingested better by different people. Wrapping the basics with various kinds of evolution theory, psychology, social engineering, statistics, examples/canned material, etc. makes it easier to "click" with certain people. It is like the saying that the cure for depression is to "stop feeling sad". Well, duh! of course this is the baseline. But many people will have to go through tedious therapy and God knows what else, before they are ready to internalize this belief.

axe122 · 2019-12-18T13:36:20+00:00

Your right, if you even look at game from a 3rd party perspective it’s just systematic flirting for guys who are bad at it. A lot of the stuff does work if you implement it one thing at a time until you’ve mastered it but it is literally ways to get you into conversations long enough to practice banter and build some self confidence. I would recommend practicing banter through online dating apps. It’s easier to be witty behind a screen and one you have a smart ass answer for everything they could throw at you while teasing them and being playful. You may even get some dates and lays doing this and I wouldn’t recommend just stopping approached but on like a Monday night when your not doing anything or going out you could be working on your banter via text with online dating.

Don’t wait to start the banter after a long list of interview style questions just go right into it and she’ll feed off what you give her and actually like it.

Arthur_deGobineau · 2019-12-18T14:23:35+00:00

So, you finally got it guys?

CryptoniQ123 · 2019-12-18T14:25:43+00:00

Yes...the PUA community has totally overcomplicated the issue.

V1ll3ntr3t3nm3rt4 · 2019-12-18T21:27:00+00:00

As Epictetus said, you “should not be satisfied with mere learning, but add practice then training. For as time passes we forget what we learned and end up doing the opposite, and hold opinions the opposite of what we should.”

WIA20XX · 2019-12-18T22:25:21+00:00

Dudes love a boil it down philosophy until they actually start talking to females.

All the best PUA advice comes out of guys using simplistic approaches and not succeeding.

paper4160 · 2019-12-23T05:20:52+00:00

How does one get better at banter/flirting for a quiet person

billgrimes5 · 2019-12-18T05:11:16+00:00

That’s an interesting problem I have with what success is considered. 80-95 percent rate for sleeping with a woman isn’t unusual when you are intentionally picking up for a lay. The expectation for it happening in THE SAME DAY is unusual 80/95 percent of them time. But if you build the connection, build the chemistry and establish sexual attraction, why does that sounds so unusual? The problem that I see with guys, is that they rush into it. Who in the community really cares if the lay is 1 day or a few weeks? But if you establish sexual chemistry with a woman and there’s that attraction and enticing nature of your relationship, what prevents sex from happening? I’m not understanding.

LucyDD69 · 2019-12-18T01:17:52+00:00

4th step at the bottom is generally just Coping.

Be attractive, don’t be unattractive, and everything else is easy.

We_Broke_Up · 2019-12-18T03:04:37+00:00

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