How does vulnerability lead to non-neediness?

CocoBabeNYC · 2022-06-08T11:10:52+00:00

Neediness is a complex issue. Basically Mark Manson's argument is that only low ranking members of a tribe are needy and have to be nice to others in order to get their needs met. An alpha male having access to whatever resources he wants, is by definition non-needy. His needs are met, he is satisfied and fulfilled and he needs nothing. Males on the bottom or the fringes have no access to resources so they depend on others to get their needs met and to do so they have to make nice, defer to others, have their hand out, etc.

There is something viscerally unattractive about needy people period. When a homeless guy approaches you and says "nice shirt man", you roll your eyes because you know you will be hit up for money. When your mother calls you every day about this and that, your reaction is usually to be annoyed and exasperated. We don't want to give needy people anything.

The same problem happens with women. They can sense when a guy is needy, meaning that he lacks women, sex and attention in his life. So when you approach a woman r a relationship with the mentality of "I'm not enough, I need a woman to feel good about myself to feel fulfilled to feel whatever", they can sense that and will reject you. Some won't because they are typically toxic crazies who can only get needy guys with self esteem issues to leach off of. As a matter of fact, nice, needy guys are a prime target for this type of woman.

Ok so what is there to be done. Vulnerability is one thing you can do because it shows a certain lack of fear. When men think vulnerability though, they think becoming a pathetic groveling hot mess to a woman. They talk about how depressed and worthless they are and how they have been faking it. This is the equivalent of a woman revealing to you that she wears so much make up that she is unrecognizable undearneath, that her huge tits are bolted on every morning, that her juicy ass is inflatable, etc. You will not be turned on once you find out. Same goes for men. Be vulnerable to the point that you show you are a hot insecure mess and a woman will run for the hills.

So vulnerability has to be used sparingly. I mention to women that I am very shy. They never believe me because I don't come across as shy at all, but it's true. I was a shy kid and still am shy in many ways. I tell women I can't get it up so not to bother dating me. This last one is not really true, but the fact that I can say it and women think I'm full of shit and want to do me even more is funny.

So be selectively vulnerable but not to the point of becoming a pathetic joke. Do it ina way that say "I'm not afraid to talk about certain things that most people probably go through". You can talk about how your social skills have gone down the drain because of covid. Most women experienced the same. It will bond you.

Now back to neediness. The only antidote to neediness is to feel content and whole. Not needing others attracts them like nothing else because it says "I'm powerful". I would say that the biggest causes of neediness are the beliefs that you are inadequate and that you are not accepted. Sometimes it is "I'm inadequate, therefore I'm not accepted/wanted/desired" or a variation of this.

Write down whatever your belief is and go through the following process on paper. List as many positive things about this belief as you can. Yes, even a negative belief can say something positive about you. Let me give you a few hints:

-believing I am inadequate drives me to try harder -it shows that I have very high standards and expectations of myself -etc.

Try to write out as many of these as possible. This exercise will show you why you hold on to beliefs that are considered negative or limiting.

Once you have exhausted the positives, start a new list listing the negatives, such as "it makes me feel terrible about myself, I act needy and turn women off, etc etc". Compare the two lists and see which one resonates with you stronger. Give them a ratio out of a 100. If you believe the first list more, write 70/100 and the negative list 30/100. If that's the case, the mega Ive belief is too strong for you to want to change it. But if the negatives outweigh the positives, then you can change it.

The next thing is to identify the cognitive distortions in that belief. A cognitive distortion is a faulty thinking pattern that tends to make us reach negative assumptions and makes us feel depressed. In the above belief I can identify emotional reasoning. Emotional reasoning is saying "I feel X therefore I am X". It I feel inadequate therefore I am inadequate and worthless and nobody wants me. The issue is that just because you feel something doesn't make it true, now does it?

Another cognitive distortion can be mind reading. You assume that because you feel inadequate others think it as well, but that assumes you can read other people's minds.

So let's start with these two cognitive distortions and play around with them. There are a couple of techniques to try. First one is "list the evidence". Give specific evidence about what makes you inadequate or worthless. If you say something like "women don't seem attracted to me", ask yourself do you have conclusive evidence that no woman has ever liked you. Ask yourself where is the evidence that women not being attracted to you means you are worthless. If you hit a snag take it a bit further and ask yourself to be specific. What about you makes women not be attracted to you. What specifically! Be super super specific.

Often times when you tackle a belief this way you will start seeing that the belief doesn't ring true as strongly as before. You are starting to poke holes in something you believed to be a universal truth. And now, you are not so sure about. This process often have to be repeated several times and practiced so you can really tackle and destroy the negative belief.

So let's say that you have done this 3-5 times and all of a sudden you don't feel that you are inadequate and therefore unacceptable. Hey, maybe you start thinking you are kind of a cool guy. Maybe your life isn't so bad and it's actually pretty awesome. A man who feels co tend and fulfilled and who sees women as icing on the cake as opposed to the salvation from his depression, will be instantly more attractive to women. A man who likes himself is universally liked by women. And the beautify is because he feels happy with himself and his life, he doesn't need women. He may want them, but he doesn't need them.

So go fix this and report back.

Additional resources: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dating-anxiety-and-the-secret-of-sex/id1171155453?i=1000480111747

Due_Avocado_1921 · 2022-06-08T10:36:08+00:00

I have done it after reading the book and it cures your neediness indeed. Where this comes from is that if you’re needy you behave like everybody wants you to behave because you don’t want to risk disapproval. This sends the message that you’re low status. High status men don’t need to care what you think as much because they can do mostly what they want. If you start behaving in a way you seem fit (vulnerability) you force yourself to stop being afraid of what others think. It’s a long topic man but trust me it worked for me. If you want you can dm me if you struggle I would be happy to help you.

Delicious_Ad_1853 · 2022-06-08T14:12:24+00:00

I haven't read Manson, but perhaps it would help to understand what vulnerability really is.

Vulnerability is strength. Massive fucking strength. It takes huge balls of steel to put down your weapons and shield and walk around saying, "This is who I am and nothing you say can hurt me." That's not something a scared weakling can do.

A person with that much strength can't be needy because they are already content with who they are. So... work on building up that strength. Start with where you are.

"I am a man who is behind schedule in developing his social skills... and that's ok."

"I am a man who is actively trying to make up for that lost time... and that's ok."

"I am a man who wants to use those social skills to fuck/date/marry women... and that's ok."

Embrace who you are today. Embrace who you want to become. Walk confidently towards that future. This is the essence of non-neediness.

nbh1995 · 2022-06-08T11:20:08+00:00

Because you are confident enough to open up to people..it shows that you don't care for their opinions. The problem is that some people open up and get judged or rejected but keep simping. If a bitch judges you for opening up than you should enforce a boundary that implies that you don't tolerate judgmental behavior...i.e put her in her place.

MK2718 · 2022-06-08T12:09:19+00:00

Vulnerability is not being weak or soft, but rather being strong enough to deal with the consequences of exposing your true self, thoughts or feelings.

Forming connections with others is only possible through honest communication. People rarely fully communicate their honest selves, instead hiding their true thoughts, beliefs and intentions out of fear of making themselves vulnerable.

Extending trust is a manifestation of personal courage. You show that are willing to deal with any ramifications that may occur from allowing another person to harm you as a result of you opening yourself up. These are the situations which can make vulnerability appear as an attractive trait. I.e. You do not NEED a specific response back from them, and thus don't appear needy.

However, showing vulnerability in a positive sense is NOT vomiting emotions and/or seeking sympathy from a person. It’s not showing up on someone’s doorstep and crying for them to take you back. It’s not acting like someone or something means everything to you and you will die without the person or thing in your life. Actively seeking pity or pleading in anyway is not attractive. More on Topic

EthicalSeduction · 2022-06-08T11:11:42+00:00

I have not read the book but will share a thought or two hoping that it helps.

The word “authenticity” is a great word to strive for. We all want the freedom of getting to live authentic lives where we can express who we are (which includes being vulnerable at times and asking for help or things we need) and we don’t just want to be accepted or tolerated, but really valued for who we are as a person! Just imagine that for a second, that you didn’t have to try and impress people because they wanted to be around you for who you actually were! That’s comfort and freedom on a different level and if you have something close to that, you will act very differently than someone who is not accepted or feels they need to hide themselves. So living authentically is definitely something to work towards.

And part of being authentic with yourself and others means sometimes being vulnerable with other people. We don’t like or trust “perfect” people because we know that’s not real, that they are hiding things from us. Being imperfect and vulnerable is a way of showing who we are inside and when we share this with someone, they often recognize it for what it is and treat us well. Vulnerability helps to establish trust and openness with others. The trial here is that when you open up you are taking risk for being hurt so you want to do it wisely. Try something small, she how that gets received, and if it goes well or if the other person starts to open up with you too, then give a little more of yourself. It’s a process and you should not be an open book, but practicing being vulnerable is one of the best and most courageous things we can do for ourselves. It will reap many rewards!

Last thought…. When you share a vulnerable part of yourself with someone, it can flip a ton of attractive traits about who you are. (1) It shows you took a chance with this person (2) that you are trusting them not to hurt you (3) that you are courageous and brave and strong (4) that you are confident enough to do this (5) that you are giving and real and probably willing do share more of yourself. Don’t even “dump” on other people sometimes being vulnerable can be super fucking attractive.

Hope that’s helpful. The book sounds interesting so I may go look it up.

Common-Snow5434 · 2022-06-08T16:04:07+00:00

Being needy comes from a fear of the unknown, which results in the need for constant affirmations from your S.O. When you’re able to be vulnerable, the responses you get more directly address the causes of your insecurities, aka what typically triggers your neediness.

Being honest with yourself and your S.O. about these insecurities can foster more genuine conversations, which of course can help you learn what their own insecurities and avoidant behavior triggers are as well, thus helping to break the cycle.

Best of luck!

cormacru999 · 2022-06-09T02:00:54+00:00

Wow, that other answer is so long & so unnecessary.

Vulnerability, something that many women really appreciate in men, because its so rare, is when you are willing to show real emotions in life. It can be choosing to share abuse you grow up with, or that you're filled with social anxiety. Its the opposite of the arrogant, over confident, alpha male who is so obviously afraid of real emotions, real connections that may hurt him, etc.

Being needy may mean different things to different people, but I can tell you that women don't like it when a man has zero hobbies or interests (you cane enjoy gaming, but not to the exclusion of everything else, which really would go for any interest), zero good, healthy relationships with other people, men or women, usually a poor family relationship, no real goals beyond look good or be fit, etc, & when those men date a woman, they often NEED the woman to fill all of those roles, the woman needs to provide all of his emotional support (& because so many men are so fragile, that can be a full time job in itself), they need to be his family connections, his only friend, do his hobby with him though he won't do any of hers.

In a decent relationship, this is just an overwhelming burden to the woman, & she's constantly trying to navigate what will upset him & what won't, because he's incapable if handling various things. In the bad relationships, the man just gets controlling, he needs her to end her own family relationships, her own friendships, her own hobbies, she can't do anything better than him, etc.

The other thing is, & I say this a lot here, is men should really avoid the men who pose as seduction gurus. At best they are using men's fears & fragility against them to earn an income, by posing as a successful seduction dude, paying women to stand around or do ads for him, & many of the others often think they have great advice but there are dozens of women on youtube who will actively review these guys & points out how trash it all is.

Therapy is a great, safe way to figure out your fears & anxieties & become a man who is capable of handling a romantic relationship, as well as develop better friendships & work on their family stuff too. Staying at home, reading books by men, posts by men, comments by men who all have some mix of the tropes they like or don't like is a complete waste of time.

Women are all over the internet talking about what they like, dislike, want, hate, experience, fear, hope for, etc. They write articles, blogs, posts, make videos, any sort of media out there. If the goal is meet women, to be successful with women, why would you talk to only men?

larsson22 · 2022-06-08T10:19:31+00:00

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billsmashole · 2022-06-08T16:40:02+00:00

People can sense when you're being fake and it's needy and off putting. When you're vulnerable, you're showing the ability to show people yourself and let them reject or accept you for who you are. People don't like being tricked and manipulated into liking you.

xtzferocity · 2022-06-08T17:32:24+00:00

I'll simplify some of the excellent answers here. Vulnerability shows confidence and being confident in your actions, words leads to you not needing approval from others for what it is you're saying or doing. A highly confident individual is non-needy.

Now how do you get to that point? How do you avoid this vicious neediness cycle? I can't speak to what will necessarily work for you but I can share my own experiences which has led to some success.

Set your own boundaries. This is tricky because if you like someone it is very easy to just throw it all out the window for them but allow yourself to follow your own boundaries. Now the boundary setting is up to you. But it is important to follow it because a confident man would not let anyone violate their boundaries.

Be okay with rejection. If it's at a bar tell her to enjoy her night and grab a drink. If it's online dating, tell them good luck and move on, go for a walk. Remember 90% of the time the rejection is not due to anything you can control.

Now what can you control? Well how you look, what you say, those are definitely the starters. So dress for yourself, talk about things that interest you. It displays confidence to talk about you and being able to not just focus on them. (but what if they don't like me? Well don't be needy not everyone is going to like you) Dressing so when you leave the house you're like, damn look at me. But know you're doing this all for you! That's the important part here. Is you. Go to the gym because you want to live a healthier life and age more gracefully.

Don't hinge a nights out on meeting someone. If you're going to a bar don't expect to meet your soulmate. Go there to meet new people sure, but don't go into every interaction with the sole intent on falling in love. Same can be said for dates or matches don't set such high expectations. Allow things to flow naturally.

Learn to reject women. This goes back to the boundary discussion, it shouldn't matter how drop dead gorgeous she is, if you aren't interested in what she's saying and only how she looks, that's shallow and being needy. Learn to walk away/un-match, chemistry isn't forced, allow her to earn your time with what she says and how she says it. Be kind about it though, thank them for their time and move on.

Last point, if you're waiting for them to text, their non-answer is their answer. It sucks getting ghosted but you're not needy so keep being the badass you are.

larsson22 · 2022-06-08T18:11:52+00:00

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eszibit · 2022-06-08T10:42:15+00:00

It doesn't, it has some good concepts but strikes out a lot too.

Non-neediness comes from 2 things. Be healthy ( and trust me, from my research i think only around 10-15% of people are healthy ) and second, be self-sufficient but that ties in a lot with the 1st one. If you do this 2 things your hormones and neurotransmitters will be balanced and you will feel like a million bucks.

Biology always trumps psychology.

Being vulnerable should be earned, you will be with long time friends or family, but being vulnerable with the cashier girl you just met is a stupid thing to do. He also does mental gymnastics about it " willing to share everything" but only if you feel like it and not going into emotional vomit.

recyclablebanthas · 2022-06-09T03:17:26+00:00

The reason why I'm asking is probably pretty obvious: I'm extremely needy myself and can't seem to find a way to reduce that neediness

To add to what Coco said, one of the best ways to combat neediness is by knowing in your bones that you have options. Because neediness is often born of fear of lack of options or fear that one cannot find anyone else.

Like when you've met someone and you're scared of screwing it up because this one feels special in some way, and it seems difficult you'll ever find someone like them again.

That kind of thing starts going away when you have built a social life for yourself that exposes you to new people on a regular basis. It's easier to feel like you have options when you are actually exposed to options.

How to do that?

Go to Facebook
Do a search for an activity/hobby/interest + the name of your city.
Browse through the groups and events tabs for regularly reoccurring events.
Sample a few each week. Try new things. Get outside your comfort zone.

If you play your cards right, this can duplicate the kind of social exposure when we usually get in high school and college.

angry_fap21 · 2022-06-08T15:27:40+00:00

Don’t read just talk to women

AyWhatITIS · 2022-06-08T17:43:20+00:00

Don't be needy

AXLE_BLACKWELL · 2022-06-08T20:16:43+00:00

Get yourself a chick from East Asia (born/raised). They are far more attuned to keeping their men happy and they’ll be delighted to satiate your neediness. I’m quite needy, myself, BTW.

revente · 2022-06-08T12:49:13+00:00

If you've red his book "Models" and agree with its concepts

This is one concept i don't necessarily agree with.

Connect-Pear-3859 · 2022-06-08T15:55:38+00:00

Difference being, the way I see it is. Be ultra confident and when you approach say something like, pardon my nerves but I had to come and speak with you as you seem to have a fun vibe.

The vulnerability is in admitting your nerves, especially when you do it confidently and with a smile.

2022-06-08T17:29:48+00:00

Vulnerability reduces neediness because you are being honest about yourself and not trying to get their approval. You will have to handle rejection over and over. Becoming desentisized to rejection and being honest rather than approval-seeking will naturally reduce neediness.

bandsupjay · 2022-06-08T21:15:22+00:00

Mind to explain how youve been trying to reduce it?

Travis_Varga · 2022-06-08T22:33:47+00:00

If you've red his book "Models" and agree with its concepts, can you please explain how does being vulnerable reduce non-neediness?

Well, the thing is that you don’t want to be “non-needy”, you want to have real self-esteem, you want to approach romance by putting yourself first or with self-esteem. You morally put yourself first, never sacrificing what’s best for your life for anyone or never putting anyone above yourself. Your primary source of happiness is from your career, romance is second at best. You’re not dependent on women for your happiness. While you pursue romance, you’re comfortable being single.

You have more important things for you to do to live and pursue happiness then spend time pursuing women who don’t meet your realistic standards, who aren’t compatible, who treat you badly. You have your career, your health, your hobbies, your friends, art/entertainment or looking for a better woman. Looking for someone who is worthy of your time, energy and love, who you treat very well accordingly.

From what I remember, when Mark talks about being vulnerable he means pursuing your important values and not letting the fear of failure, of rejection, of looking bad to others stop you.

From Models by Manson,

For instance, making yourself vulnerable doesn’t just mean being willing to share your fears or insecurities. It can mean putting yourself in a position where you can be rejected, saying a joke that may not be funny, asserting an opinion that may offend others, introducing yourself to a group of people you don’t know, telling a woman that you like her and want to date her. All of these things require you to stick your neck out on the line emotionally in some way. You’re making yourself vulnerable when you do them.

When he talks about sticking your neck out on the line emotionally, what that means really is pursuing your important values. You feel strong emotion when your important values are at stake.

In this way, vulnerability represents a form of power, a deep and subtle form of power. It’s courageous, even. A man who’s able to make himself vulnerable is saying to the world, “Screw the repercussions; this is who I am, and I refuse to be anyone else.” He’s saying he is non-needy and high status.

The power is that you are putting yourself first, you’re living according to how you think is best and failure isn’t that important. That the opinions or rejection of irrational people don’t matter. Like say you go to up a group of people you don’t know in his example, supposing it’s at a place appropriate to that like a bar, and you do it well, without being creepy or rude or whatever. If they make fun of you or whatever then that doesn’t matter because they’re irrational. You don’t judge yourself according to the irrational evaluations of others. If you find out that you and them don’t share common interests then that’s ok as well. You just go look for other people to meet.

Actually though, his talk about status and being high status is not good. You shouldn’t judge yourself by however society ranks you and you shouldn’t do things so that you have a high status in the eyes of others.

I've been working a lot on myself but it doesn't seem to reduce neediness.

That will help, but it’s not enough on its own, especially depending on why you’re doing it and what you’re doing.

AXLE_BLACKWELL · 2022-06-08T22:56:29+00:00

Exceedingly well written and thought-provoking! I’m gonna check out the podcast you suggested, because I’m TOTALLY socially dysfunctional, and have never had sex without money changing hands. I’ll be 45 in the fall and, as demoralized though I may be, I must persist. What other choice have I.

What especially makes it sting is that I am a very handsome guy; 8/10…so I gotta huge advantage over most guys and I’m affluent, though my dick is small. Two out of three ain’t bad, still.

Title	How does vulnerability lead to non-neediness?
Author	larsson22
Upvotes	160
Comments	128
Date	June 8, 2022 10:17 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/v7m6oq/how_does_vulnerability_lead_to_nonneediness/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/how-does-vulnerability-lead-to-non-neediness.1257635 https://theredarchive.com/post/1257635

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