Is this subreddit only for guys?

throwaway18594 · 2013-04-03T23:02:09+00:00

If so, I will kindly show myself out......

[–]Lead ModeratorThrowawayPUA[M] 142 points143 points144 points 13 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 85 points86 points87 points 13 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]baddestdog 18 points19 points20 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]baddestdog 9 points10 points11 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lawrnk 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SingAlong_Original 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nuetrino 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points35 points 13 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 53 points54 points55 points 13 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]rknDA1337 12 points13 points14 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 16 points17 points18 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheUltimatum13 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Granpafunk 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 7 points8 points9 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]luckybuck 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Barzano 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jimbodini 7 points8 points9 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lubak 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]livinglogic[🍰] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nomowolf 7 points8 points9 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]birdwontquit 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nlc89 28 points29 points30 points 13 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 8 points9 points10 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]nlc89 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]itsmevichet 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nlc89 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Degradable1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Coglioni 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]nlc89 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dr_Velociraptor_PHD 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Remember that one of the core values that much of this community expounds is to be unabashedly comfortable with yourself. It's fantastic to improve yourself, but if you are improving yourself for the sake of others you're already tying yourself to outcome dependence.

You're basically telling yourself "If I just modify this about myself, people will want to be around me more." This might even be true, but be sure that whatever changes you make are changes you will enjoy for their own merits, on your own terms. You're going to have the best results if you actively enjoy the things you do because you do them for yourself.

I realize you may already know this, and I may be just rehashing, but the way you talked about being awkward struck me. I often end up in an awkward spot in conversations, but I realized it's often as not as much a statement on the other members of the conversation as it is on me.

In other words, I'm a geek, so I may make a science based joke. If it flounders that makes an awkward situation, but that's showing me that my audience isn't into that particular interest of mine. So I'll just brush it off and find a topic that does engage them, as well as me. I've stopped trying to tailor conversations around other's interests I don't share. If I cannot find any common interests, it's not that I'm failing, it's that we lack compatibility.

This thought pattern has helped me overcome conversational outcome dependency.

[–]nlc89 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You've basically hit my biggest personality flaw right on the head with that one.

I must admit, most of the changes I've made in the past were to try and get others to like me. My newest outlook is the healthiest I've had in a very long time (I'm dieting for myself. I was tired of hating myself when I looked in a mirror, so I decided to do something about it, I'm trying to improve my personality / social skills more so when I go on stage I can mesh with a crowd better, that kind of thing).

At this point, I am working to be better, but seduction (or being seduced) isn't the end goal. I'm just trying to find a version of me I can be happy with, so I'm "trying on" different things to see if they make me like myself. Males are a good target audience to reach out to (I don't identify well with females for some reason), so finding out what makes them tick helps me to socialize better, if that makes any sense...

I'm probably rambling at this point, so I'll stop :)

[–]Dr_Velociraptor_PHD 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

No. You're not rambling at all. I like the way you say you are "trying on" different personas. Like finding a sense of style for clothing, equally I find we need to find a sense of style in regards to how we present ourselves. And the more styles we have available, the wider our possible audiences become.

So it sounds to me like you 'get it'. The journey may be far from over (I don't actually believe there is an end point, there is no perfect end to self development), but I'm glad to hear you seem to be on the right path.

As a guy, I can offer maybe a little perspective on what it's like on our side. Now, I don't know if you have a 'type' you go after, but I can say for certain that men are not so different from women as we were raised to believe. A great deal of our preconceived notions of the opposite sex are wildly innaccurate. And further I find most people project the inverse of their insecurities onto those they have romantic inclination toward. That is, they always seem to think the other person has he opposite traits to their flaws, fearlessness to your anxiety, confidence to your insecurity.

The reality is something closer to the idea that fearlessness does not exist, but rather bravery is acting as you choose to through the fear. Due to gender roles, men have the majority of the burden of starting romances. And no matter how good a guy gets at quieting the voice of doubt that tells him it won't work, she won't like you, you're not good enough the anxieties never disappear. Everytime we choose to flirt we have to override that part of our brains, and for many guys it feels like quite a leap of faith.

So, if you find yourself attracted to a guy but frustrated because you want things to move forward, consider making things easier on him. Feel free to tell him you want a date, or you like him or whatever you honestly want from him. And if your first reaction to the idea of being completely forward is an excuse or anxiety that he may not share your attraction you now understand a huge part of our perspective on the dating scene.

In the end, a massive part of seduction lies in becoming comfortable in vulnerability. In the same way dressing stylishly in fitted clothing is to make oneself stand out more and invite judgment, so too is displaying your personality and style a sometimes unnerving thing. But I'll tell you I don't regret a single kiss I wwnt for or a single girl I tried to date but had things fizzle. I only regret the opportunities I had that I didn't take. I only hate the times I played it safe, trying to control an outcome.

I hope some of this was a help. I'm always happy to see a girl on this sub, it has an ugly reputation but it's helped me tremendously. I'm still startlingly medoliocre at pick up, but I'm enjoying the journey and I've gained an enormous amount of comfort with myself. I hope you can find what you're looking for too.

[–]nlc89 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

First of all, I must say that you have a wonderful writing style. If you open sets the way you type, I have no doubt that you're invincible :D

I really do appreciate the input. It's really nice to talk out things like this with someone who knows exactly what you're going through (like therapy, but cheaper!).

I honestly don't get the stigma against this place. Yes, some guys can be real sleazeballs when it comes to seduction, but people should learn by now that guys like that are the exception, not the rule, and they exist in every group. I must admit, when I first joined, I was a little taken aback at some of the FRs that seemed to talk about women as if they were pieces of meat. Once I realized it was...almost a coping mechanism that's taught here to help guys overcome their anxiety about talking to girls (after all, it's a lot easier to talk to a lamp than a human, so pretend the girl is a lamp! Or some bullshit like that. You get what I mean), it became a lot easier to see the end goal.

After all, what girl doesn't want to be swept off her feet?

I have been complained to by several of my guy friends about how they could never get any girls and how they were so lonely, and I tried to direct them here. Unfortunately, none of them ever took my advice, because they were afraid of the stigma of having game. So it crosses gender both ways, I guess.

My latest goal has been trying to get out more and make more friends, through Reddit gatherings, going to bars, etc. It's slow going, but it's definitely helping me "practice" reaching out to people, and figure out levels of interest.

Thanks for talking with me! I really do appreciate it :)

[–]Dr_Velociraptor_PHD 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for the compliment. I love writing, and am slowly teaching myself to speak slower and with more meaning and thought so I can better express myself verbally. My tendency is to be excitable and energetic in person, which is not terrible, but meditation is helping me learn to actively choose what 'mode' I adopt at a given time.

My latest goal has been trying to get out more and make more friends, through Reddit gatherings, going to bars, etc. It's slow going, but it's definitely helping me "practice" reaching out to people, and figure out levels of interest.

This is exactly how I started my journey. I did something similar to the film Yes Man and basically tried everything and didn't allow myself to make excuses. I went out with all sorts of people, did things I had never done and tried things I didn't think I'd like.

I got countless memories from it, and learned truly what I like and don't like, and the reasons why I feel that way. The bar scene, and 'night game' in general turned out to be not the perfect fit for me. But I love the atmosphere of concerts and have had some great 'night game' successes at them so there turned out to be exceptions.

The point, I suppose, is that I'm glad you're trying a bit of everything. I once trusted my analytical nature too much and gave into preconceived notions. Sampling life's buffet helped me unlearn perfectionism and adopt a more flowing, come as you are approach. So keep at it!

And I've quite enjoyed this exchange, so I encourage you to post some of your results and experiences to seddit. The female perspective is incredibly valuable as a learning tool, as it's often hard to see through another's eyes. As well, feel free to bounce any ideas or questions off me in PM. I'm hopelessly addicted to reddit and pride my self on responding to everyone I can who messages me.

Til then, keep up the good progress. It's exciting to have another person on the path of discovering themselves.

[–]nlc89 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dr_Velociraptor_PHD 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What is your "perfect fit" for you? I'm always curious to see where people have the best success meeting people (plus it gives inspiration as well!).

I think this is an insightful question. It perfectly reflects an early belief I had when I had only just embarked on this endeavor. I thought at first that bars were the place to be, after all hadn't I been raised to understand all single people meet at bars my whole life?

So, for a time I went out with my more outgoing friends, got into the bar scene, and eventually discovered I vastly preferred either karaoke bars or dance clubs. I never once had any success in a plain old bar, it felt like I was loosening up with drinks and then had nothing to do. Whereas music has always been a fervent passion of mine, so the preference made sense.

So, I ended up having decent success, dance clubs in particular. But I quickly discovered a problem. It's hard to screen the bar crowd when playing the game of seduction, since alcohol can cloud your judgment and their nature. So I ended up with a series of painful dates and unfulfilling nights. One treasure of a date had the girl tell me 'I don't understand a lot of the words you use.'

But, I've fallen to rambling. The point I'm making here is that I discovered that there is no particular place that works for me. I tried libraries, book stores and coffee houses after my epiphany on bars, and discovered actively trying to pick up in those environments didn't work.

What did work was not caring about actively trying to pick up girls. So, to answer your question, there's no place that is my perfect fit, it comes down to how I personally feel. If I'm actively pursuing my passions and interests, and I wipe my mind clean of any goals or ambitions I end up just truly enjoying myself. This, as I understand it, is what this community calls being 'in state.'

I get 'in state' through nature walks, music and chatting up the old lady next to me in line at the super market, and really showing interest in her. I get there from trying to have a real conversation with my waiter when I eat out, trying to find out some little tid bit about them so they aren't just a name badge.

So, I end up meeting people in the strangest places, and rarely have luck in the same place twice. It's lead me to have a different approach than a lot of this community, in that I have barely practiced actively targeting and trying to win a particular girl's affection. Instead, I've learned to better pick up social cues, and try to read if there's interest or disinterest, and where's there's interest, to figure out what kind it is. I then decide what to do spontaneously based on my hunches. Basically, I just ramble along, but keep my eyes and heart open whenever I can.

As for your outings, it sounds like you maybe aren't so far off from a field report as you think. You mention being on stage, I'm not sure if you mean karaoke, improv, or you're in a band, but I personally love singing and it gets me 'in state' pretty quickly. I tend to end up feeling partly invincible, very happy and comfortable with myself and immensely relaxed after really belting it out. And that absolutely will be attractive to either gender.

We all seek to be around people who seem content, comfortable and satisfied hoping we can follow them to that bliss, and if you've found a way to accomplish those feelings you are farther along than you are giving yourself credit for, I think. Don't fall into that trap where you think everyone has things better figured out than you, a lot of the things I've 'figured out' I struggle to put into practice every single day. It's like a Buddhist quote I love, "We are always in a state of becoming." To me it means we have a choice everyday to become just a little more like we always dreamed we would be, just slowly and by degrees.

[–]nlc893 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PortAltepa 17 points18 points19 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ARealSocialIdiot 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]studjuice 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]adiyo01110 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]birdwontquit 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 15 points16 points17 points 13 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]JediSange 9 points10 points11 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]frogma 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

If you talk the way you type, then IMO you're already there. Your typing shows you to be pretty witty and "talkative." If you act the same way in real life, then you're fine.

If you don't act the same way in real life, then you need to develop that aspect of yourself. When you're talking to people online, take a second to really feel that emotion and embrace it -- then just do something similar in real life. Don't second-guess yourself.

If you're already pretty, then yeah, that's not an issue (and some of the things here might not be relevant at all). But if you're not, and you're mainly trying to figure out "how guys work" and shit like that, then this sub will be just as helpful to you as a sub like /r/askwomen (or some shit).

Just judging by how you seem to "talk" online, I'd say your best bet is to join an improv group and/or start making more random friends in general. Just walk up to people, say hi, and see what they're all about.

If you're fat/ugly/insecure, don't worry. The rest of us are too, to some extent. Tofu's overweight, Curveball's probably insecure, ThrowawayPUA's an older guy, and I'm sure EvolutionTheory himself is pretty insecure (and I'd bet any money that he's overweight). So am I (I'm not overweight, but I'm pretty insecure and not a Brad Pitt lookalike). And I'm just describing the mods.

Shit happens. You either deal with it and clean it out, or you ignore it and let it pile up.

[–]ARealSocialIdiot 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]frogma 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm picturing you as a 50-year-old loser with a beer belly -- and yet, I can still name a few guys like that who are good with women.

Example 1: My dad. He's about 52, with a huge beer-belly (otherwise, he's pretty small). He's divorced from my mom, so he's been fucking random girls for like 15 years. Guy gets around. I don't really know how he does it, but girls somehow find him to be attractive. Then he fucks them.

Example 2: My stepdad's best friend. Dude's at least 50 now, and ugly/dumb as shit -- but I guess he helped develop IM chat, so he's made a ton of money. He's been with like 10 hot girls in the past 3 years or so, and now he's marrying one. He lives on one of those super-rich islands where cars aren't allowed. And he's marrying a girl who's at least 20 years younger than him.

Example 3: me. I'm not fat, but the BMI would probably say I'm overweight. I used to be extremely insecure (it's gotten better in the past 5 years or so, but like everyone else, I still have an ego). I'm not old at all, but that can actually be a problem when you're dealing with older women, so...

And somehow, all 3 of us still manage to get by. Hell, my dad's probably fucked more girls than me and the other guy combined, yet he lives in a 2-bedroom apartment that's really old and really shitty. He has a few teeth that are literally black because he hasn't been to the dentist in at least 40 years. But he's generally pretty confident and knows how to make moves, so he makes shit happen. Nobody cares about his lack of money. Nobody even seems to care about his black teeth, for some reason. Sure, he fucks a lot of weird-ass girls, but he also fucks some pretty "normal" girls, so it's not like he has any magical advantages compared to 90% of other guys in existence. He just makes shit happen.

[–]ARealSocialIdiot 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]frogma 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My stepdad's about the same in terms of "figure." He hasn't fucked too many girls, but based on the vibrators and cock rings I've found, I assume he has a pretty healthy sex life with my mom.

He's also easily the most talkative/outgoing person I've ever met (which is saying something, because I've lived with cokeheads and kids who snorted oxycontin on a daily basis -- they tend to be talkative).

I dunno how he does it. I know he's prescribed to xanax (which means he might have some underlying issues), but he didn't need xanax up until like 2 years ago. And his general demeanor/personality hasn't changed at all. Just all-around, he's the most talkative person I know, who generally leaves a positive impact even on the cashiers he deals with.

If he wasn't married to my mom already, I bet his dating life would be fuckin PUA-status. And I guess his situation probably offers a decent explanation for shit -- he used to be much skinnier and much more muscular in college. Yet he's changed nothing about his personality in the past 30 years or so, so the weight change seems to be pretty insignificant. His personality has always been the same.

[–]funkykingston 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My dad. He's about 52, with a huge beer-belly (otherwise, he's pretty small). He's divorced from my mom, so he's been fucking random girls for like 15 years. Guy gets around. I don't really know how he does it, but girls somehow find him to be attractive. Then he fucks them.

Pro-tip: this whole process gets easier with female age. When you're in college and trying to get girls, you have to learn to get over your own issues, as well as help her bypass her own. Older women have their shit more together in terms of knowing what they want and not caring about being judged, while at the same time the whole supply-demand dynamics starts to favor the men, since female attractiveness drops off with age faster than male attractiveness.

That said, don't wait around until you're older. Get out while you have the energy to be stupid and fearless. Being risk averse is a habit that can build on itself.

[–]throwaway18594[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]melon6 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]funkykingston 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel like the reason there isn't more discussion of female game here because the whole process is simpler: dress more provocatively, use more KINO.

The men's side involves starting the conversation, showing some value, keeping the conversation going without devolving into interview-style questions, planning the next date, figuring out ways to get her away from her friends so she won't feel slutty, and then there's dealing with how she nervously gets in her own way right before closing the deal. The onus is mostly on men to get good enough at these things.

That said, I know a few women who are very charismatic: they seem to get every man a little bit attracted to her, boost the energy of the room, and generally initiate all the best social events. Some of this might be learnable, some of it might be their own latent personality traits.

[–]Rodburgundy 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]birdwontquit 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Rodburgundy 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jpark343 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]birdwontquit 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EklyM 49 points50 points51 points 13 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]omronthesomron15 points 13 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LikeAbrickShitHouse 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]royisabau5 47 points48 points49 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 8 points9 points10 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EklyM 19 points20 points21 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]darlingpinky 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]lhwang0320 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ARealSocialIdiot 33 points34 points35 points 13 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 13 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]frogma 12 points13 points14 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought the same, until it started happening to me. I was still a manwhore, so I still "gave it up" in those situations, but I really didn't want to. I only did it because the opportunity was sitting right in front of me and literally grabbing my dick.

In some cases, yeah, you might already be attracted. In other cases, NO, YOU WILL NOT BE ATTRACTED. But this ugly-ass girl with zero personality will be grabbing your dick, so you're thinking "eh... shit happens."

Girls deal with the same shit, except they usually deal with it more often. You can't really blame them for that. And they don't have dicks that randomly get super aroused, so that's different too.

You might "go along with" a girl who you're already attracted to, but for about 80% of guys, I'd bet against that. I'd even wager that the guy will say something stupid that usually turns the girl off. Most guys aren't familiar with that sort of shit in the first place. So I'd bet against it.

[–]ARealSocialIdiot 6 points7 points8 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jerfy 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]project2501a -7 points-6 points-5 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ARealSocialIdiot 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gabriot 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hot_mango 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]offensivebuttrue_ 9 points10 points11 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (42 children) | Copy Link

[–]ARealSocialIdiot 32 points33 points34 points 13 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

[–]silverionmox 6 points7 points8 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

Come on, this is not only untrue, it's just misleading.

It's 100% true. That's why my joke was funny. It wouldn't be a joke if it wasn't true. Duh.

While it's true that a good physical appearance can be more of an advantage for a woman

"more of an advantage" is a dramatic understatement with a capital U. Let's not bullshit around here...

There are a lot of guys, namely geeks and more introverted types, who aren't as versed in approaching and conversing with a woman, who won't approach regardless of how good the girl looks. And if she's into that type, she's going to have a hard time meeting them no matter what she looks like.

That's a matter of her getting off her ass and putting some work into her sex life. God forbid she actually has to something other than bring out the pencil skirt and stilettos...if an attractive woman happens to be attracted to geeks (which isn't likely given the typical social climate she'd naturally acclimate too...) or otherwise introverted men with weak social skills, then she have to do the approaching. If she looks good, no one is going to say no. Hell, even if you don't look good, many men won't say no...

Women come into seddit because they want to be able to make the first move—if they have to. That can easily be just as difficult for a woman as it is for a man.

Again, let's not bullshit...we both know this is not true what-so-ever...

Man's approach:

Conquer AA. What if she rejects me? Suck it up, pussy...nah, she's with her friends...I'll make a fool of myself. FUCK, the guys on seddit would be laughing at me right now. MAN UP!
Attraction...joke with her. Break her balls. Now she's not talking. Did I offend her?? Shit...
DHV and qualify....how best to fake that I don't want to fuck her and that she has to earn my respect too. Flash dat watch! Nah, now she thinks I'm a try-hard. My friend is drunk and making an idiot of himself...fuck...DLV...he's ruining my social proof! WTFBRAH? UEVENLIFT!?
Extraction and logistics...are my roomies at the pad tonight? Was this Football night or Halo night? When are they coming home? WTF...can't hit up my place...maybe hers? Damn son...I live like 10miles away...how do I hold attraction for that long?
LMR...speaks for itself.
Sex. Diz bitch be hawt. Lasting longer than 30 seconds....? Looks like I'll have to be hitting the gym more...

Women's approach:

I like your shirt... ;)
Sex. Passive sex if he sucks.

Sorry, you were saying something about it being just as difficult??

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 13 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 13 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 13 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 13 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link

oh fucking k...I'll throw a dog a bone here. Oh my. Why do I even bother.

So. The premise of your whole point: Women don't have to do anything to get sex. It's so flawed I am actually starting to cry here.

First off. WITH WHO?!

My earlier comment: If a girl wants a guy that is *more attractive** than her the same rules apply.*

IF the girl is less attractive, she will be ignored by the hot guy for some other girl, given that they have the same level of game, that is woman-game to you, since you seem to think we are saying they have to do the same thing to get what they want. Which brings me over to point number fucking 2. What makes you think gameing is solely about getting sex? Haha... You come off as a complete newb when you say that.

You know what? I am a dude. I'm bored with sex. Why? Because it doesn't excite me. What? Why? BECAUSE I CAN GET IT WHENEVER THE FUCK I WANT!

What? BUT YOU ARE A GUY?!?! YOU MUST HAVE SERIOUS GAME?!

No. Well yes I do, but I don't have to do any game to get women interested in me sexually.

You don't either, if you work out, dress well and act fairly funny. ZERO fucking game. You don't even have to approach. You can sit at a bar and have girls come up to you. There are at least 5 girls at my job I know I can fuck if I put any effort in. And 4 of those are married. Amazing huh? nope.

But are these girl attractive? As in, way more attractive than me, which would actually make the sex fairly interesting? NO! (well, for you maybe, as I imagine you having about zero experience in this department...maybe you have 12 level 80 WOW characters instead? I dunno).

Over to what woman-game is. HEY! IT ain't going over to her in the corner of her eye, blabla act confident bladibla, isolate (that they should do though - to fight off competition). It's a whole fuck-ton of stuff they have to do to GET approached in the first place. It doesn't come naturally. Girls don't naturally act confident (but fragile), funny (but not too funny), sexual (but not slutty) etcetc to get whatt they want (whatever that is.YEH! It's not only sex! Wow?! It can be something as easy as BEING fUCKING APPROACHED TO SATISFY THEIR EGO!).

And to keep a guy interested? Do they just have to be puuuuurdyy? NO! They have to game that guy. Because he WILL have a fuck-ton of other options. A vagina just ain't enough for this guy. For you it is I know, but try to put yourself in the position of a guy that have strange women calling him in the middle of the night, asking for favours.

So if they want awesome looking guys, with great personality to approach them, seduce them and stick with them after having banged they need to have...what? Fucking game...

Now read that shit ten times, and you might learn something.

edit: Toned it down a notch, as I managed to calm down a bit here.

tl;dr: read it!

[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

IF the girl is less attractive, she will be ignored by the hot guy for some other girl given that they have the same level of game, that is woman-game to you, since you seem to think we are saying they have to do the same thing to get what they want.

Do you know how hard it is to be an unsexworthy woman? As long as you weren't born a genetic freak show, a woman would have to wake up every day and put a concerted effort into not being attractive...

I knew a girl who was tall, and overweight. She was probably a 5-6 when she dressed up, objectively speaking. She ONLY dated guys most people would consider studs and "swoles"(body builder/very fit). I told her her standards were ludicrously high and these guys are way out of her league physically, and she said "yea, I know, but I can get them, so I don't care.". It's not hard for women to bat outside their league, even if they aren't that attractive. Much more so than men. If your a man, and you're a 5, the women you will attract will only ever be worse than 5's. If you're a woman, and you're a 5...grab your pencil skirt and stilettos and willing to settle at the bar tonight. Not hard.

What makes you think gameing is solely about getting sex? Haha... You come off as a complete newb when you say that.

No, I'd say game is about increasing your social market value.

You come off as a complete newb when you say that.

Which would be bad because...?

You know what? I am a dude. I'm bored with sex. Why? Because it doesn't excite me. What? Why? BECAUSE I CAN GET IT WHENEVER THE FUCK I WANT! What? BUT YOU ARE A GUY?!?! YOU MUST HAVE SERIOUS GAME?! No. Well yes I do, but I don't have to do any game to get women interested in me sexually.

~"Fishing doesn't excite me. Why? Because It takes no skill to catch fish. I'm incredibly skilled at catching fish, but I can catch fish without using my fish-catching skills".

What...if you are skilled at something, of course it seems laughably easy. I draw as a hobby and was professionally trained for 2 years in traditional animation...the things I do do not seem that challenging to me when I do them...I'm sure they do to others, nor do I think it's something any shmuch can roll in a studio and do just because I can, and know friends that can, and are way better than myself.

You don't either, if you work out, dress well and act fairly funny. ZERO fucking game. You don't even have to approach. You can sit at a bar and have girls come up to you. There are at least 5 girls at my job I know I can fuck if I put any effort in. And 4 of those are married. Amazing huh? nope.

It's not "amazing' because you just listed 3 separate criteria men are expected to exemplify to be highly successful in spite of game. Being fit, being socially versed (funny) and having keen fashion, and I'd add having a profitable career, and living independently all make a hot guy. Women need only 1 of these things; Men not interested in fucking her hopes and dreams... That was my entire original point and you basically just proved it. I'd also add that those criteria for men are much harder to achieve and maintain than not eating like a fucking cow and buying a nice dress that shows off your ass.

But are these girl attractive? As in, way more attractive than me, which would actually make the sex fairly interesting? NO! (well, for you maybe, as I imagine you having about zero experience in this department...maybe you have 12 level 80 WOW characters instead? I dunno).

Nice dig brah. Your tie-in was a bit amateur, but decent execution as far as hurling personal insults go.

Also, WoW sucks. Seriously? C'mon.

And to keep a guy interested? Do they just have to be puuuuurdyy? NO! They have to game that guy. Because he WILL have a fuck-ton of other options.

Ugh, no. not unless he's in the 10-20% alpha pool. If you want to make this conversation about nothing but the top 10-20% hottest members of both sexes...

For you it is I know, but try to put yourself in the position of a guy that have strange women calling him in the middle of the night, asking for favours.

This was a much better, higher quality ad hominem. That's what I like to see.

So if they want awesome looking guys, with great personality to approach them, seduce them and stick with them after having banged they need to have...what? Fucking game...

Ok, so again, you make this reference of "awesome looking guy with great personalities". You sound like one of those guys who has been fucking 9's since birth and has no idea how the world works outside of your small reference experience.

Practically no men are "great looking" or have "awesome personalities". They certainly aren't the average, which is this conversation. No rational woman who isn't Carmen Electra thinks she has a chance with David Beckham. This is obvious...I'm not even sure why you'd attempt to make this point.

A typical, every day woman, requires 0 game, or effort to get sex or a relationship with a typical, every day guy. This is my point. Even most of the type of men that visit this forum and improve themselves are probably not going to achieve the exalted status of HG9 or 10 as you apparently have, King Fangs; they will probably cap out at 7 or 8. A 7 or 8 guy is not very hard to get into bed if you look like something out of /r/Gonewild, which is an assortment of fairly average women raping the karma feature.

That being said, if you're capable of making a retort without personally attacking me, or assuming the men this woman is trying to fuck is Ryan Gossling, I wouldn't mind hearing it.

[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes. (And don't try to make it about simply getting laid, because that is not what this discussion is about. It is about if a woman needs game to get what she wants).

The premise for you entire theory is fucking wrong. It's not surprising that you think in there terms, because this is what has been force-fed to you for you whole life by mass-media and the society in general. This mindset stops you from getting any progress in seduction.

Why?

You claim that women have it easier. Because they're sexuality is of higher worth. What does that do to your sexual worth? It's diminshed? What does that do when you approach a girl. Your mindset tells you that you are already fighting an uphill battle. You must do something special for this to happen. Not the girl. Do you think that this will make you act confident, outcome independent and alpha (ugh)? It can only hurt.

Now. Why is your theory wrong. I won't even say flawed, it's fucking wrong:

You think the HB scale is an absolute scale, when it is in fact a relative scale. Relative to the PUA in question. And it's not only about looks. Its about how much value the girl is to the PUA. You understand that concept? It's the value of the girl that makes you nervous, your AA rises and you don't wanna fuck up. Because: THIS IS IT! This is the girl. Ok?

So the scale is relative. From that you can deduce that the scale is also relative in time. An HB6 for you now, is not HB6 once you have fucked 20 of them in a year.

So the higher value you are yourself, the less women there are in the pool which makes you "excited". But do you become higher value to the girls? ... Ah. Well, don't you think so? What makes you valuable to women? Confidence is one major factor. Maybe the only one actually, when you think of it in terms of relative attraction. So as you rise higher up the ranks, you would think that you have a larger pool of women to pull from? Nope. Because you will not be interested in the HB6s anymore. They are dead to you.

So. Translate this to women. Yes. Most women can get sex if they want. Like guys, if they would only realise that women actually aren't more worth than men sexually, but I digress. They will have to compete if they want a guy more women are after, ie she is worse looking that her competition. Right? But yeh. True. She can shoot lower and probably get laid.

But women don't want just that, they want something more!

Try to understand that this thing isn't about sex for everyone. Realise that people have other goals then sex before you respond with another: "but gurlz get sex bettur than gays!!" So fucking what? What if the girl isn't after one night stand after one night stand?

You also threw in relationship there which was funny. If a girl wants a decent relationship, in which she thrives, do you think she can just throw her vagina out there and wheel them in? Because there are so many awesome guys out there? Or there are more guys then girls? Or what? What on earth makes you think girls get what they want so much eaiser then guys?

Why am I telling you this again? Because in your mindset, you are already the loser. You won't be able to get what you want, because you will always think that you have to do something special to make things work. The girl can just lay back once a week, and you'll be a happy little puppy. You know what? Girls do NOT want that puppy. Trust me.

So. Shed that shit away. Realise that your sexuality is just as important to a girl, as hers is to you. Unless you fucking give it away for free, then you of course. It's worthless.

Anecdote to prove my point. Taxi queue in the middle of the night. Gonna have to wait at least 15 minutes. Bored to shit. Girl alone, HB7, pretty drunk comes up behind me in the queue. She stumbles a bit and I open. Hey you alright there? ... She responds by being an utter bitch: "What? Aren't you fucking pathectic? Last chance of the night huh? Have to get something? Woow...you are such a loser. Oh my god..." ... This pisses me off. So I respond rather harshly: "What? Do you think I was chatting you up? Do you think I would want to chat up you? Jiis. I just wanted to pass the time. No worries, I'll put my headphones in. Much better than listening to this shit." ... She looks up rahter surprised. Pulls my hood back a bit looks at me and steps away. She mumbles: "well..I have a nice ass..." ... I ignore her. She looks back at me again. I ignore her again. Some guys in front of us starts chatting her up, and she instantly responds to them. I ignore her. She turns to me after a few minutes, and says something. I pull my earphones out, and she goes: "youre weird...blalbal". We exchange a few words. she turns away. I put my headphones back in and ignore her. She AGAIN turns back and says something etc. This goes on for probably 5-6 times before we are in front of the queue where she goes: "Where are you going?" ...We wasn't going the same way, and I smiled and laughed: "tough luck for you." I wasn't going to fuck a crazy anyway. She mumbles something and jumps into the taxi.

What actually happened? Is it because I am Ryan GOsling? NO. I made myself higher value than her by denying her, and ignoring her. She suddenly has lost something by being a bitch. And suddenly she wants to be pulled back up in to my value rank.

Do you understand what I am trying to explain here?

Your theory is just regurgitating some crappy social construct that you have been fed all your life. It's not true unless you make it true. You can't win if you follow the rules. You have to make your own rules. And that is what PUA is all about.

[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Basically, the concept you are describing is only an effective strategy or a subjectively relevant world view if you happen to be very good looking, or rich, or famous, or all of them, and women want to fuck you, irrelevant of other qualities. If you just walk around saying "my sexuality is worth just as much as hers", and you basically ignore chicks, you're just gonna get ignored back. If this type of thinking made sense, I'd imagine this community wouldn't exist because men would have had no problem getting women. I mean the journey to becoming good with women in this community is to go approach/supplicate to like 10 000 women and you'll magically get better.

So. Translate this to women. Yes. Most women can get sex if they want. Like guys, if they would only realise that women actually aren't more worth than men sexually, but I digress. They will have to compete if they want a guy more women are after, ie she is worse looking that her competition. Right? But yeh. True. She can shoot lower and probably get laid.

Again, the only guys that have women after them consistently, are the top alpha's. Otherwise, it's men who have to do the approaching and bring value to the table, at which point their value is evaluated and accepted or rejected.

You also threw in relationship there which was funny. If a girl wants a decent relationship, in which she thrives, do you think she can just throw her vagina out there and wheel them in? Because there are so many awesome guys out there? Or there are more guys then girls? Or what? What on earth makes you think girls get what they want so much eaiser then guys?

The amount of men that would gladly want/accept a relationship from even a moderately decent looking women are a dime a dozen. I don't get why you'd think otherwise. If she's looking for ONLY the BEST man to have a relationship with, then yes, sure, I'd agree, but again, we aren't talking about celebrities here....we're talking about the general, average young man and young woman.

What actually happened? Is it because I am Ryan GOsling? NO. I made myself higher value than her by denying her, and ignoring her. She suddenly has lost something by being a bitch. And suddenly she wants to be pulled back up in to my value rank.

I would say that worked and she fucked you because she already wanted the "package", and when she realized that you were dominant, not supplicative, and valued yourself over her validation, the value of that package tipped even more in your favour. If Joe Beta, who spends his Friday nights getting high, and playing Halo with the boys, working part time at the grocery store making only enough money to feed himself 3 days a week, with 0 education walks around valuing himself more than girls, do you really think girls are going to say "wow...his sexuality is so valuable...He's just s0oo0o0o confident, I totally want to fuck him now!". No...because he has 0 value already. His package sucks. He'll treat women like anyone else and women will treat him like anyone else, and he'll be a 80yr old virgin, who dies alone with a dry cock.

I don't understand what you are trying to say....if men who have little to no inherent value, valuing themselves over women will give them nothing more than they were getting before, as far as I can see...women don't give a fuck how much you love yourself if yourself sucks.

This is why I was saying that you're talking as if everyone is a celebrity and they all just want to fuck each other. External factors matter, and that fact that women's value is their physical appearance grants them a lot more sexual power than Joe beta playing Halo and getting high.

Tell me how this is wrong...

[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

When did I say you magically surpass any obstacle by thinking you are worth something??? When did I say you can ignore girls and get pussy automatically? this Pplies to girls too. Theyre actions are just different than guys. I think that is what you are missing here. You think approaching is hard? Fuck please. Just fucking.do it. Alot. AA is gone. Try being a 30 something girl and compete with 25 year olds.

Also. Yes. There are many guys out there. But you know? There are more girls looking for a relationship than there are guys oooking for it. Of that you can be fucking certain. Most guys are happy just fucking around to they hit their mid 25 to 30s. Dont wanna be tied down etc.

And you always fall back one "if they settle with average" argument. Who the fuck wants to settle with average??? They want the dream guy!! Everyone does!!

[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

When did I say you magically surpass any obstacle by thinking you are worth something??? When did I say you can ignore girls and get pussy automatically?

You said confidence is the most important thing. It's not. That's what I'm saying. As far as I cans see, confidence doesn't make any difference unless she already likes you. Then you gave a reference in which you fucked a girl cause you passed her off as a bitch and didn't supplicate. Again, I'm saying these things don't get you anywhere unless he already liked you, and if she already liked you, it was a matter of maintaining attraction by not being a pansy, not creating it.

There are more girls looking for a relationship than there are guys oooking for it. Of that you can be fucking certain. Most guys are happy just fucking around to they hit their mid 25 to 30s. Dont wanna be tied down etc.

Again, not at all. 80/20 rule. There are far more unsexworthy males than there are unsexworthy females or this community wouldn't exist. The amount of men that can't get laid or find a relationship far outpaces the women whom couldn't get laid, or couldn't find a relationship if she ACTIVELY TRIED, but they won't because that's not their role...I know exactly 0 men who can go out and "fuck around" until their 25 and then just decide to settle down. Sex is not something people who can't already get it, can just go out and get. Control and choice in your sexual life is a luxury that the community was created to help men achieve. You don't seem to understand this. I can only imagine that you've never had a problem with this, and you can't conceive of a world where you can't get laid whenever you want.

If you go out to a club or a bar, how many of those guys are going home with women? Probably less than 20%. Why? Because they lack the skill, the value, or both. Only alpha's fuck women on a choice basis. Everyone else fights for scraps.

And you always fall back one "if they settle with average" argument. Who the fuck wants to settle with average??? They want the dream guy!! Everyone does!!

Because like I said earlier, Jenny from work doesn't think she can pull David Beckham. We're not talking about dream people trying to fuck other dream people, we're talking about real life, every day people. Everyone wants the best they can get, yes, but within their league, or slightly outside of it, if you're a woman, because they have that luxury.

You are making 3 points and they are not logically coherent with each other, which is why I'm not understanding what you're saying...or you're just wrong, but you insist I'm wrong, so I'm trying to understand

If you're already an alpha male, and women are drooling at the bit to get your cock, then yes, obviously your sexuality is worth just as much as hers. Actually, a lot more because high quality men are harder to find than hot women. I agree with you there. But otherwise, a woman can have anyone she wants, within her realistic range of options because all they have to do is go up to Joe-halo-playing-beta and ask if he wants to fuck and he'd be down cause there's no way any woman is giving him pussy voluntarily.

Your counter-point seems to be that men have this power too, if they accepted that their sexuality is worth equal to hers, and get rid of the notion that he is worth less, but I'm saying that is only true if we're talking about the 10% of alpha males trying to fuck the 10% of the hottest women. It doens't apply at all with HB/HG1-8.5's. My question to you has been: What power does my made up friend here, Joe Beta have, and how will he ever get women to be interested in him if he does not accept that he has no power over women, and that their sexuality is inherently more valuable than his is, unless he spends the next 5 years becoming a hyper alpha (assuming he has the potential. Not all men do), at which point he wouldn't have needed PUA, and he'd have absorbed decent social skills my osmosis anyway anyway, cause he'd bring so much value to the table women would want him regardless.

[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I didnt fuck her. Do you read what I write?

I didnt have sex untl 21 years old. I had a gf for 8 yrs who destroyed my ego and I had to rebuild it. I have seen the the coin from both sides. Have you?

What is the key attribute women ask for in a man? Confidence. A man does in no way have to be a stud to get laid. He simply needs some alright clothes, a nice hairstyle and be confident. The 2 first are fucking easy and availble to all. But he will get fucking nowhere without confidence to approach. Keep the convo going. Initiaite kino. Isolate and close. No. Fucking. Where.

Unsexworthy? Did you just make that up? Did you know that society in the 19 th century viewed women sexuality as more prominent than mens? A man was said to be in control of his sexuality whilst women had to be curbed nkd controlled because they were sex craving lunatics. I am saying this to illustrate the point that this is a social construct and not a biological thing necessarily.

But we can turn that around and say. Well. There is more women out there looking for a relationship than there are men doing the same. Wh on earth do you think cosmo writes that bullshit if women were so much in control as you seem to think.

I dont understand how you think you will be able to act outcome independent and confident around women if you think you are always of less value than they are from the start. Do you think you just do an act? Do you think that works? Trust me dude. Just realise that it is possible, even easy, to maie the change. Your natural behaviour after the change will attract girls. Why? Well. Confidence of course.

Im thinking there is litt le point in continuing here. You are extremely stuck in your mindset even though it serves you no purpose and it is not even true. Just your twisted perception. I will put you on ignore. Not in spite. I just dont want to repeat myself anymore. And I dont want to read your same argument in different wordings yet again.

[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I didnt fuck her. Do you read what I write?

You left ample room for interpretation. Let's not pretend that you didn't...

I dont understand how you think you will be able to act outcome independent and confident around women if you think you are always of less value than they are from the start.

Acting. Fake it till you make it. That's one of the primary tenants of this whole community. I am not confident...but I certainly don't let women know that, lol. I've had women much older and more mature than me tell me I was too young for them, but that I'm the most confident man they've ever met.

... Do you think that works? Trust me dude. Just realise that it is possible, even easy, to maie the change. Your natural behaviour after the change will attract girls. Why? Well. Confidence of course.

Hmmm..how are you supposed to become confident if you have nothing to be confident about. If you don't have confidence, and women want confidence, how do you get confidence...? If all employers want experience, how do you get a job...if you have no experience...same deal?

Im thinking there is litt le point in continuing here. You are extremely stuck in your mindset even though it serves you no purpose and it is not even true. Just your twisted perception. I will put you on ignore. Not in spite. I just dont want to repeat myself anymore. And I dont want to read your same argument in different wordings yet again.

That's fine. For anyone listening, or who comes across this, no one just lies down and accepts new forms of thinking. You have to challenge and vet new ideas. To me, you are making no sense, therefore I challenge you until you do.

[–]chocorroles[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]ARealSocialIdiot 5 points6 points7 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If that's all you're attracted to in a girl, I feel bad for you. If that were really all you needed in a girl, then you wouldn't ever have to even talk to them, you could just point them out in the bar and take them home without a word (assuming you didn't have to, y'know, seduce them). I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't want to at least find out if a girl can carry a conversation before you fucked her.

The number of times a hot girl has turned me off by being uninteresting or vapid is astronomical. It goes way beyond tits and ass for me, and I'm sure for most of the guys here as well. On the other hand, if those same girls leaned in and said "Hey, let's get out of here" and wanted to JUST fuck? Ehh, I would probably agree. But if she's that stupid/uninteresting/self-involved, she probably isn't that good in bed in the first place.

[–]Degradable-2 points 13 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Degradable1 points 13 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Degradable2 points 13 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Degradable1 points 13 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]charliedouglas123 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Degradable1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]birdwontquit 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

To be honest I think it's unlikely you'll find what you're looking for from this subreddit. I don't think men are aware of what attracts them beyond the physical any more than women are. And most men here are unsuccessful with women, and thus not incredibly discerning. Study your friend. What's the difference between her and you (assuming you're equally attractive)? Have you looked for a modern version of The Rules?

I tried to think of what attracted me to women more strongly than the ones I just wanted to sleep with based on their looks. Confidence and a lack of neediness were big ones. An element of challenge. Also the ones who made me feel good about myself (ie. that I'm handsome, smart, charming etc.). If you feel good about yourself around someone you'll associate those positive feelings with them.

You mentioned charisma earlier. Charisma is 90% self-confidence externalized, in addition to humour, charm, good stories etc. It comes across in your body language, your speech, and the things you say. It's the ability to inspire loyalty. I can't tell from here, but you may lack the confidence part, or the other parts (ie. you're boring, but I suspect not). You imply you're attractive (or "decent"). You may need to work on being a challenge to a man. Most men are very ego driven. They want to conquer and win something. Push/Pull also known as Hot/Cold is a HUGE tactic for women. There's a section on it in The Art of Seduction I'd suggest you read. Give a guy some attention and praise, then take it away. Continually do that in all aspects (not just in person, in fact less in person). Reward then withdraw. He'll be eating out of your hand.

[–]Pugilanthropist 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]desperatefor 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah!! I have the same question!! I also have kind of an answer-

I've never dated a guy who didn't show serious interest upon first meeting. I've had three boyfriends: 1) First, met in high school at a mutual friend's house. He was my friend's neighbor, but he went to a different high school. After meeting, told our mutual friend that he liked me and got my AIM sn from her. ooooh those were the days! and aggressively pursued. Dated for 11 months 2) Met the day I moved into my college dorm. Walked around trying to find me for hours after that random bump-in (so he said), and invited me to a party that night. Made out standing up outside for like ten minutes that night, slept in his bed that night and only spooned. Dated for a little over a year. 3) Went to a college party at his house. Asked me to be his beer pong partner (romantic). Made out that night. I KNEW this was love because less than a month later I drunk puked all over his carpet, blacked out and didn't remember any of it. Apparently I started crying and yelling at him for puking on his carpet. Dated for three whole years!

[–]Lead ModeratorThrowawayPUA 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]desperatefor 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]allib00 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ARealSocialIdiot 8 points9 points10 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The thing about this is that a lot of guys will take offense to a woman who comes into seddit and posts things like this: "As a woman, I've found that <insert a bunch of stuff that guys have already posted in seddit for years over and over>." I know it feels sexist to you, like, "oh, I'm getting downvoted because I'm a girl and I posted something in a men's-club setting," but it's actually the absolute opposite of sexism—sedditors will downvote stuff that's been played over and over again because it's not new. Whether or not you think repetitive content should or should not be downvoted is another matter entirely (I don't really have a problem with it because of the number of newbies who come to seddit refusing to read the sidebar, and if other people are posting the fundamentals then it means I have to do it less often), but the logic behind it IS sound, for better or worse.

[–]throwaway18594[S] 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]allib00 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Stormo130 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jaricho 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]shitsfuckedupalot 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jqtxpyer -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]raikku_ -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway18594[S] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]thereelperkins -11 points-10 points-9 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Is this subreddit only for guys?
Author	throwaway18594
Upvotes	145
Comments	163
Date	April 3, 2013 11:02 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1bmdw0/is_this_subreddit_only_for_guys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/is-this-subreddit-only-for-guys.1349945 https://theredarchive.com/post/1349945

Comments