TRP and rape

HalfysReddit · 2015-04-29T21:03:34+00:00

IMO, when I read that "sexual strategy is amoral", I get the impression that TRP is saying "here is information on sexual strategy void of all moral context, you are free to do with it what you will".

I doubt you'd find anyone in TRP defending rape, it's a pretty fucked up crime.

purple_lock · 2015-04-29T23:55:05+00:00

I'm gonna offer a different perspective. The reason I have no problem with 'dread game' or 'negging' is not because "sexual strategy is amoral."

It's because women have employed those tactics on me for my entire life, and they show no sign of stopping, slowing, or even being chastised for it. So why should I "play fair"?

This is exactly the kind of shit that has caused me so many problems. I spent years doing things exactly as BP would say, never insulting her, never arguing. Cutting contact with female friends because she was jealous or "uncomfortable." Listening to what she wants and then doing it. Never pushing for what I wanted, because that's what douchebags who "disrespect women" do.

And I got shit for it. Because women are not taught to give men the same courtesy. They're never told that making their boyfriend uncomfortable is misandry. They're never told that having men hit on them is somehow abusive to their partner. They're never told that keeping their man happy is the most important thing in the relationship. They're told that what they want is more important, because what men want is just immature/perverted/oppressive/what-have-you.

They're told that they're a catch, and men are lucky to be with them. I was told I would be lucky to be with anyone.

Men are told that they're "good men" if they put their partner first; women are told "you go girl" when they "stand up for themselves" and put their needs first. Do you see the imbalance?

So for me, your OP question doesn't make sense, because it's not about these strategies being "amoral," it's about them being common strategies that women employ (almost always subconsciously/naturally).

Rape isn't something women do to men without consequences (well...usually...) so I'm not handicapping myself by not raping someone. I am handicapping myself if I decide that these basic concepts that women use regularly are somehow wrong for me to use.

cherryblue12 · 2015-04-29T20:12:50+00:00

If rape is wrong, then why are other strategies designed to get sex with no regard for a woman's feelings not also wrong?

Are you trying to compare hurting someone's feelings to raping them?

redtheoryread · 2015-04-29T23:13:03+00:00

Your post contained such a harrowing oversight, I had to register just to get this out.

The reason that rape is immoral and the strategies presented at the RP are not, comes down consent. Rape ONLY has one consenting party and isn't considered a strategy because you are just forcibly taking it. It is quite literally the lack of any strategy for getting sex, you just take it.

To further clarify, when we use the word "strategy", we don't mean "means to an end". In basketball you can't hug the ball, walk to the opposing basket and take out a ladder and drop it in. Furthermore you couldn't call it a basketball strategy, because then you aren't playing the game anymore. As soon as you break the rules it's no longer a strategy. And what is the point of taking the time to sit down and create a strategy at all if all you want is the end goal? We define sex as an act between consenting individuals. We define rape as forced sex. Therefore rape isn't sex, it is its own thing that can have its own set of strategies. When I say "rape strategies vs sexual strategies" it should be easier to see that distinction. SEX != RAPE, nor is rape a subset of sex or vice versa. A dead simple example if you still can't see it: if you were raped you wouldn't go to the police crying and telling them you had sex. You would say you were raped, because rape != sex. We have definitions and they mean things. Stop conflating them.

Even if Red Pillers were completely amoral themselves, we clearly are not dumb as a whole; I haven't even seen that used as an argument against us even from TBP, mostly just misogynistic asshole womanizers. You play the game and the break rules, you don't get invited back to play again (meaning prison, being removed from the sexual marketplace in addition to being ostracized). So even if you could do the mental gymnastics to say that rape is a valid sexual strategy (really though, its not, see above) it wouldn't be logical strategy because its an endgame. YOOOOUR OUUUT. The chance of permanently Removing yourself from the game for one lay is a terrible deal and certainly wouldn;t be representative of a population that encourages walking away because her vagina isn't worth the time for a night or money buying her drinks (abundance mentality).

In contrast the techniques presented at TRP are strategies for getting that enthusiastic "YES PLEASE!" consent. And really what's the big deal? Two people decide at that exact moment they both want something between them for that moment, and thats beautiful. Its sounds like you're more disconcerted by the fact that the image people are selling you isn't the genuine 100% real deal as advertised (i.e. fake it).

If thats thats the real issue then I have news for you: you're fucked. I've realized there are two types of people in the world: those that explicitly get it, and those that don't. Manipulation is everywhere, used by every person from all walks of life. Even by those who don't "get it".

The new-age form of manipulation is actually stems from the idea that both parties win. Because when the other parties win you can continue to win. See Google's "do no evil" policy, "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People", etc, but at its core its just that, manipulation. A good example of this is actually TRP. We encourage men to "become it" as opposed to faking it (PUA) because of the sustainability that comes with it. Its just smarter that way.

At the end of the of the day, nothing is stopping you from creating your own community, discussing your own practices for getting what you want out of life using your own strategies. You could even make a community dedicated to using strategies to better flesh out men, get the "100% real deal man" you thought you were getting. The point being, these things are happening, have happened forever (seriously, open up a history book, hell G.O.T. draws a ton of material from real life characters and events ) and will continue to happen. Progress in communities is just not possible without self-serving interest (i.e. manipulation). If you just want to complain about it, that's your right, but don’t think for one second it will stop or protect you from the people that have accepted this reality and use it to their advantage.

Finally I will only respond to your rebuttal if I feel you put in the same level effort as I have in this post. Please construct carefully, every point serves a purpose.

Ultramegasaurus · 2015-04-29T20:09:27+00:00

That's just obtuse. Any sane and unbiased person would realize that "sexual strategy" basically means courtship strategy.

cherryblue12 · 2015-04-29T21:04:46+00:00

TRP promotes the idea that sexual strategy is amoral, as in, unconcerned with rightness or wrongness.

Nope. BP strawman. TRP is concerned with statements that are either factual or allegedly factual. The statement: "If you stab someone, they will die" is an amoral statement. It does not mean that you should disregard morality when deciding if you should stab someone.

"Hiring a hitman to kill your father and get you inheritance will clear your debt" is an amoral statement. It's not advocating that you kill your father to wipe out your debt.

TRPers, do you feel that rape is wrong and if so, how do you reconcile that belief with the idea that sexual strategy is amoral?

By knowing what TRP means by "sexual strategy is amoral."

If you reject the conclusion that rape is neither right nor wrong (as I think most people will), I posit that you must also reject the conclusion that sexual strategy is amoral.

If you think this is what we mean by sexual strategy being amoral then I posit that you lurk more before commenting nonsense.

SirNemesis · 2015-04-29T21:15:48+00:00

TRP is the study of sexual strategy without regards to morality. Because various people have different conceptions of what is moral, to try to evaluate whether each aspect of a sexual strategy is immoral or not would hamper the study of what sexual strategy is effective; determinations of effectiveness would get sidelined by discussions of morality. Thus, it's up to each individual to decide which parts of sexual strategy comport with his own sense of morality.

In contrast to morality, legality has a simple, objective standard. Thus, it is easy to determine which sexual strategies are illegal and avoid studying them; instead, one can focus on legal sexual strategy.

mykonos_rm · 2015-04-30T01:34:32+00:00

You're reasoning is flawed:

You are falsely equating amoral with immoral behavior.

Amoral sexual strategy removes defined moral principles from the decision making process.

Immoral behavior is action against or in violation of defined moral principles.

You define rape as achieving sex through physical force. This is partly incorrect. You've conveniently left off against the other person's will as this is what necessitates the use of force to begin with. The actual type of force is irrelevant, so long as it is deliberate in order to violate consent. Ergo, rape is immoral.

Reginleifer · 2015-04-29T20:38:21+00:00

If the goal is to get sex, then in the absence of social or legal consequences, rape is a pretty good sexual strategy.

Rape is a really shitty sexual strategy, even taking away huge social and legal consequences.

Physically forced sex has huge energy costs and is potentially harmful to the man in terms of the damage the woman can inflict during the course of the rape. Every encounter gone wrong ensures a larger chance of the next victim being able to overpower and kill the rapist.

Don't males typically avoid fighting even during breeding season?

TRPers, do you feel that rape is wrong and if so, how do you reconcile that belief with the idea that sexual strategy is amoral?

TRP gives people choices, unlike feminism or other authoritarian movements the only thing you stand to lose from refusing sex is the company/resources of the RP man.

If this is abuse, what does that make the crazy laws that force people to obey?

DaThrowaway808 · 2015-04-29T20:49:46+00:00

I wonder if you're just new here or you're bored and trying to troll.

ReddishBlack · 2015-04-29T22:45:30+00:00

Man you girls and your rape talk

Go to a con non con club and get your fix already

Rape is risky beyond legal consequences. Sex is less important than my health, so the thought of actually raping someone makes no sense to my goals in life

It's like dreaming of being a millionaire, and trying to get there through petty theft. You would be an idiot to adopt such a shit strategy

Aerobus · 2015-04-29T21:05:42+00:00

For the special circumstances of "legal and acceptable" you outlined in your OP, /u/we_are_legion and /u/redpillschool(among others) already made posts putting it succinctly: "Arguably, if rape were legal and acceptable, I don't think many people would be hanging out on a forum about figuring out the best strategy to seduce women."

alreadyredschool · 2015-04-29T20:08:59+00:00

rape is a pretty good sexual strategy

You need help man.

-Asterion- · 2015-04-29T22:19:49+00:00

First, morality is a changing social construct. What is moral in a society during a certain period, may not be moral in another one.

"Sexual strategy is amoral" simply means that we are all animals, with the reproductive instinc. Anything you do to improve your odds of mating is ok. It's just a mating dance and it's ok to analize it, and take advantage of whatever information that analisis gives you.

APlaceInsideMyHead · 2015-04-30T00:38:14+00:00

I might be in the minority here, but I don't believe in right and wrong at all.

Archwinger · 2015-04-30T00:53:45+00:00

Going to jail is a bad sexual strategy unless you like taking it in the ass.

[deleted] · 2015-04-29T21:40:49+00:00

Rape is an expression of domination and control by a person with a personality disorder.

People with these disorders dominate and control in many ways, some of them through rape.

cherryblue12 · 2015-04-29T21:44:31+00:00

I'm not a native english speaker so I might have misunderstood it but are you comparing TRP to rape m8?

I mean, rapists, especially people who rape kids should definitily be put down, it's harsh but they're sick fucking rabid dogs.

circlhat · 2015-04-29T23:22:17+00:00

TRP says sexual strategy is amoral usually to white knight for women who cheat, TRP has this odd notation that if a women cheats you should of been a better men and more alpha, they usually place blame on themselves rather than others.

These guys aren't into making excuses and would fight tooth and nail to become the man they want to be

Oh and any discussion of rape is not allowed

[deleted] · 2015-04-30T00:52:46+00:00

It's a condensed form of the truth. If I had to speak to it, I would alter it to "sexual strategy is amoral <within the confines of the law>". Of course rape it isn't supported by TRP, that goes without saying.

[deleted] · 2015-04-30T02:40:28+00:00

In our society, right and wrong are defined around harm, and it's pretty much impossible to rape someone without causing harmful mental trauma. (You'd have to get into weird edge cases where nobody ever becomes aware it happened.) So it's pretty easy to miss the distinction between "this idea is wrong" and "unlike other ideas, there doesn't seem to be any way to use this one without doing something wrong".

But TRP doesn't know anything I don't about right and wrong. They do know things I don't about women's preferences, and that's why I lurk.

[deleted] · 2015-04-30T20:20:18+00:00

GTFO.

Nothing Else.

GTFO.

[deleted] · 2015-05-01T00:59:26+00:00

Trp doesn't advocate rape or physical violence to obtain sex (in today's society).

I'm blue pill, so can't answer for trp, but I've read that in trp a few times.

FoolishWiseGuy · 2015-05-01T17:00:52+00:00

Sometimes you've got to choke a bitch. I dont advocate violence

[deleted] · 2015-05-14T18:44:02+00:00

You're mixing things up here to reach the conclusion that there is a logical inconsistency. While rape is a sexual strategy it also has non-sex components. The non-sex components (violence and coercion primarily) are what makes it impermissible.

Understanding the difference also helps to understand why certain acts that are now starting to be considered "rape" are not true rape (i.e. regret rape, intoxicated rape, etc.) because they lack those non-sex components that make it true rape.

ECoast_Man · 2015-04-29T22:34:08+00:00

/u/SirNemesis and I had a bitch fest at each other over this. Actually not this, but over whether there is a male biological imperative to do so. However, this question is different.

Rape is not a sexual strategy because sexual strategy must be one that works within a given social context. TRP is openly one that advocates that it works (which it does) in the current Western society.

TheHeroReditDeserves · 2015-04-29T20:34:08+00:00

have they changed something in the matrix?

Donald_Fuck · 2015-04-30T00:35:35+00:00

We ain't in the jungle anymore.

Title	TRP and rape
Author	cherryblue12
Upvotes	7
Comments	154
Date	April 29, 2015 8:01 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/34bbi1/trp_and_rape/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/trp-and-rape.282415 https://theredarchive.com/post/282415

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