What is "Romance?"

nicethingyoucanthave · 2015-09-14T16:35:24+00:00

He uses too sterile a definition of "resources."

providing surplus resources to a woman in order to prove to her that she is attractive enough for you to keep her around.

If that was strictly true, then you could just give a girl a check and have her on retainer, like a lawyer. lol.

Romance is a fantasy. It's not about resources exactly. It's about emotion. What you're actually pitching is desire, devotion, longing - that sort of thing. The difference between having a girl who is simply aroused by you and willing to have sex, and a girl who loves you, is this fantasy that you're focused on her and her alone.

Now, the underlying selective advantage to this may well have been the concrete resources that such devotion makes available - in the same way that the underlying selective advantage to huge giant tits is the ability to feed infants. But saying, "men are attracted to the ability to feed infants" is totally missing the point.

Anyway, the fantasy doesn't have to cost anything at all. You just have to be creative about it. I personally really enjoy this aspect of relationships.

ArrantPariah · 2015-09-14T16:43:23+00:00

I'm more interested as to why Sandman stretches out the end of every senteeeence. I could only listen to that for like ten seconnnnnds.

Anyway, TGP's post makes some good points, but I for once actually agree with taibo here. This whole premise is just assuming romance is purely about the man proving himself to the woman. While men tend to care less about romance than women in general, women will still make romantic gestures to men they're interested in, especially their SOs.

TheGreasyPole · 2015-09-14T15:57:02+00:00

I think if this definition doesn't quite get to the heart of it.

I prefer to define "Romance" as the thing that women actually describe as romantic...... This is A man increasing a womans sexual excitment/interest by the performing of non-sexual acts.

It's only "romantic" if she feels that effect. The same act that does not produce that effect is classified as "not being romantic". The effect in the female is the differentiator, not the act.

So, flowers from a guy she is already sexually interested in will be classified as a romantic gesture... Because she feels a sexual response to it.

Flowers from a guy she wouldn't sleep with in a million years is not classified as romantic, but as creepy, even though it is the same act... Because she did not feel the sexual response.

So, it is the sexual response felt by the female that is the differentiating factor between romantic/non-romantic... Not any quality of the act.

Therin lies the problem for the worlds low SMV males... Who think they are being romantic when they perform certain acts usually deemed "romantic", but who are not perceived as being romantic when they perform them, just creepy.

So.... I think we're back to rules 1 and 2 here...

Be attractive
Don't be unattractive

You have to satisfy both for a woman before anything you do is perceived as romantic or not.

Doesn't matter what the act is....If you fail 1 & 2 ? Whatever you did won't be perceived as romantic by her which is frankly the only person who counts..... And if you pass 1 & 2 ? It can be romantic.

wazzup987 · 2015-09-14T16:51:14+00:00

Does "romance" involve a woman doing anything?

yeah and if it doesn't bail.

fruitenvrac · 2015-09-14T17:36:42+00:00

My definition of romantic is providing surplus resources to a woman in order to prove to her that she is attractive enough for you to keep her around.

Ha ha ha. Even for RP this is some depressing, cynical shit.

Does "romance" involve a woman doing anything?

OF COURSE it does. I dunno, interpreting the word 'romance' to explicitly mean 'men buying shit for women' is just not even close to my idea of romance. Nor is 'romance,' imo, specifically about getting a sexual response out of women. In fact the most romantic gestures men have ever made towards me haven't been about sex at all, that was part of what made them romantic.

More thoughts:

Romantic gestures take place in an established relationship. Could be early on in dating before sex has occurred but 'romance' outside of that context is liable to come off as odd or creepy because there's every chance you're making the gesture towards someone who isn't interested in you. That's just awkward. Do you want some chick you're not into coming up behind you and stroking the back of your neck? This stuff only works when there's attraction, for both sexes.
It's not about money. If you're with someone who thinks it is, you have to decide whether or not that's a game you're willing to play. As someone else in this thread said: cheap romantic picnic with attentive partner > expensive dinner at a restaurant with inattentive partner (I added the attentive/inattentive parts).
Romance is about paying attention. And I don't mean fawning or being an audience. I also don't mean 'men paying attention to women'. I mean people paying attention to someone they love, making an effort to do something for that person that makes them feel special and loved. I'm romantic AF when I'm in love. The desire to make another person feel all warm and squishy is often naturally there in relationships, for both sexes. How do I (as a feeeemale) express romantic feelings? Again, paying attention. What's going on with him that day/week? What kind of headspace is he in? How does he feel? I think about those things and then try to do something I know he'd like, something that would make him feel loved. Often it's a simple thing like cooking dinner (a dish I know he likes, maybe go out of my way to make a 'fancy' version) and blowing him. Men, in my experience, are more likely to equate 'sex' with 'love' and sexual gestures are a very, very effective way to make a man feel loved.
"It's the little things that count." Holy shit is this ever true. The smallest things mean so much in a relationship. A short, loving text from work. A kiss on the neck when someone is busy. Taking care of some annoying chore that you know the other person doesn't want to do. Saying 'sorry' and meaning it when you've fucked up. etc.

BattleDrillOneAlpha · 2015-09-14T19:38:54+00:00

The best thing Capitalism has ever done is conceive all these holidays and concepts that coerce men in spending non-frugally for their women. It really is brilliant and I applaud the minds behind it. With that being said, it is funny to hear other people's (not on the internet) views on male-female relations.

The people for whom I have talked to all seem to think it is the guy's responsibility to pay for the female no matter what. I was working out and bull shitting with some of the people I befriended at my gym and almost every guy says that it is the guy's job to pay for dates, etc. One of the girls says that the only time she will split the bill is only if the guy is broke.

Almost all the guys highlighted that this was the "gentlemanly" thing to do. It really does blow my mind. They attributed the success of the date hinging on the fact that they paid or else the girl wouldn't be happy. And the fact that the guy does all of the planning, pursuing, and asking, so he must pay because he asked her out. Even though the date is done for the fun of both parties equally.

I even told my mother that I don't pay for the girl's food or w/e, and she was absolutely amazed. I personally see no reason to pay for a female's shit when she has a damn job and can pay for her own shit even in a relationship. Then she goes on to tell my father "No wonder he is single" because I believe in splitting the damn bill lol. I've never had a problem with this, but if I ever did you bet your ass I wouldn't take that girl out again.

This all leads up to my point. People genuinely believe that it is the guy's job to do the majority of the provisioning even early in the relationship/courting process. It is no surprise the concept of "romance" involves men spending money.

AnnoyingSeaAnt · 2015-09-14T16:42:36+00:00

A miserable pile of film clichés and dubious expectations.

GingersInParis · 2015-09-14T16:44:29+00:00

My definition of romantic is providing surplus resources to a woman

If thats the only part of your definition of romance, well, that sounds pretty depressing.

susandeath · 2015-09-14T17:09:15+00:00

Romance is making my BF's favourite meal, dressing up as a juggalette for him an.d lighting candles etc.

Romance from him to me, is when he runs me a hot bubble bath and hands me a glass of my favourite wine.

MissMaude · 2015-09-14T17:50:51+00:00

I guess I kinda associate romance with the early part of dating and a very specific dynamic where one partner is pursuing the other. I don't know if it's my social circle but there's very little of that flowers/formal date stuff even at the beginning. If an established relationship is all about one person pursuing the other rather than them caring for one another, you're doing it wrong.

99_Problem · 2015-09-14T18:45:45+00:00

Romance was all about me doing shit for her, and her just kind of being there.

One reason why we broke up.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2015-09-14T19:18:05+00:00

"Romance" is about non-sexual, "loving" attention because before committing her fleeting youth and beauty and fertility to a man, women need to believe he will love her in a nonsexual way as she ages or is made matronly by childbearing.

TheSandbergPrinciple · 2015-09-14T19:25:01+00:00

What is "Romance?"

It's some old fashioned thing that died when feminism became a thing.

taiboworks · 2015-09-14T16:00:56+00:00

And the reason that women demand that a man spends money constantly when in a relationship is because it either consciously or subconsciously proves that he's still in love.

red pillers, are these the only type of women you know? were your moms, sisters also like this? personally, i know women like this exist, but none of the women i've actually been close to are like this.

NightwingTRP · 2015-09-14T18:00:50+00:00

This is an interesting one. Personally I think romance is the beta or comfort test response that became popular back in medieval/renaissance times because men held all the societal power. Given this, it puts them a naturally more alpha position than they have these days, so encouraging a bit of beta behaviour would create better relationships. Better long term relationships between men and women naturally benefits society.

That's just off the top of my head, I haven't really refined the thoughts properly.

exit_sandman · 2015-09-15T11:40:45+00:00

Does "romance" involve a woman doing anything?

Validating the man by accepting him courtship.

Ding, that's it.

quantumtrollening · 2015-09-14T19:01:31+00:00

Does "romance" involve a woman doing anything? Or, is her role simply to be the object of the man's desire, and the recipient of resources?

What the fuck is wrong with you people?

I understand that oftentimes people turn to cults like TRP when they've failed repeatedly at living normal lives. But have you seriously never had or even seen a healthy relationship before?

Lonny_zone · 2015-09-14T18:10:34+00:00

I think that perhaps cooking dinner for a man is an example of a woman being romantic but I am drawing a blank on much else, I just don't think men care as much about romance.

MoneyOverSluts · 2015-09-14T18:52:26+00:00

Something created for women, not men.

chloe1204 · 2015-09-14T20:06:24+00:00

I think that romance is something that women genuinely appreciate. I think if a man is romantic then the woman will certainly admire him and look up to him and respect him more. When women choose to be with a man they want to be an object of his desire. If they are not then it damages the relationship. It's a key point in female sexuality. Don't all men want to be admired and looked up to by women? If a woman doesn't admire and look up to a man that can also damage a relationship, as being admired and looked up to is a key point in male sexuality.

f3yleaf · 2015-09-14T17:08:17+00:00

"For women, 'romance' means steamy sex."

Lonny_zone · 2015-09-14T18:09:23+00:00

I think he is missing the societal perception of romance, stuff that is only paid for in the resource of time (which of course, is very valuable) but costs no currency. This includes cutesy letters...and probably other things I am drawing a blank on.

ExclusiveAlias · 2015-09-14T22:08:43+00:00

Love/Romance is a conjured up fantasized human concept, if you will.

Love/Romance is simply lust, infatuation, and an amalgamation of strong emotions. It is irrational, conditional, capricious, and is an arbitrary abstract concept. From a physiological/biological perspective it is just a chemical process.

CopperFox3c · 2015-09-14T15:56:28+00:00

Wow, Sandman videos have made an appearance on PPD ... I think TRP is leaking ... /s

To answer your question, in this era of open hypergamy, "romance" has basically become just another avenue for female validation. I'm not sure what things were like 100 years ago, but nowadays very few women know how to do things that men would appreciate, other than sex. For instance, I meet very few 18-35 women who know how to cook. They also don't know how to support their man. They brag about how "independent and sassy" they are, cause lord knows that's the main thing men look for in a woman, lol

IMHO, alot of these modern women (at least in the United States) are unmarriageable. I still don't understand why men are marrying them ...

Yonderlander · 2015-09-14T16:24:37+00:00

That's about the most unromantic thing I've ever read!

LordFishFinger · 2015-09-14T17:07:47+00:00

This guy says that Hollywood "bombards" us with romantic comedies, as if they use it as some sort of propaganda and not merely a response to demand. Opinion discarded.

Title	What is "Romance?"
Author	ArrantPariah
Upvotes	9
Comments	134
Date	September 14, 2015 3:42 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3kx6d7/what_is_romance/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-romance.279626 https://theredarchive.com/post/279626

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