TRP misconstrues "be yourself" advice

scrantonic1ty · 2015-10-21T08:58:35+00:00

Timmy doesn't blame Sarah. He blames those who gave him incomplete advice as a kid. For some reason it's okay for women to complain about the confused mixed signals they receive about how to behave with regards to sexuality, i.e. the madonna/whore complex. But if men complain about the mixed signals they receive, they're just retards.

Posts like this serve only to prove TRP's point about how men are perceived by others, and how they are expected to lead their lives.

exit_sandman · 2015-10-21T13:16:33+00:00

Aaaand another post that comes from a completely bluepill perspective on how they imagine redpillers to be (repulsive and creepy). Which makes it essentially worthless.

You know what my biggest problem was?

Introversion. I wasn't particularly outgoing. I disliked to impose on others, to ask others for favors, to be in the position of the solicitor, the applicant, the put myself out there and to sell myself. Yet the thing is that when it comes to dating, as a guy you either have the option to be so stellar that women throw themselves at you (I was okay enough, but definitely not stellar), or to play the game, even if you lack a natural inclination for it. Because a guy with a not-outgoing personality who doesn't want to rely on dumb luck (i.e. hoping that a woman hits on him or at least sends him blindingly obvious signals) simply has to change on a very personal level if he wants to adapt, he has to overcome his own impulses that compel him to stay guarded and low-key. If he doesn't, women certainly won't do him the favor to do that work for him (barring dumb luck), but will simply stick to the guys who do it themselves. In other words: such a guy is not good the way he is, and every argument that tries to circumvent that fact is disingenuous bullshit.

Back to me: what were the messages I got while growing up? That women know what they want and would just love to approach if it wasn't the vile patriarchy holding them back (not word-for-word, but you get the gist). That women hate being hit on. That objectification was a serious problem across all ages. That women hate machos. That they hate players. That they hate braggards. That wanting to have sex made me some despicable human being unless I placed that desire completely under the auspices of a female-defined relationship. That female attraction is somehow more sublime, lofty, noble, and totally not superficial, basic and primal (and those women to whom that didn't apply were of course just cheap and NAWALT). That I was under some moral obligation to make life as smooth and easy for these angels as possible, that I always had to be respectful and non-threatening. That being unimposing and intellectual was the way to go and totally desirable. My female friends weren't exactly a great help figuring out why I wasn't getting dates either, because on paper, I was datable (I conformed to the set of ostensibly desirable qualities in a a man) - in other words, I was "good the way I was".

Alas, that wasn't true. Traits which I thought counted in my favor (and I was confirmed in that belief on a regular basis) actually did the opposite. It's not that I was a hermit who Elliot Rodger-style never talked to women yet expected them to fall in his lap - I was just that may interactions with women were basically neutered. As said above, I hated to advertise myself, I hated to impose, flirting and its fundamental importance was beyond me (try to actually flirt if you constantly feel the need to apologize for cockiness or everything that could be construed as indecent innuendo).

So yeah, I am very willing to support a sub-culture that actively combats the notions I grew up with, including "you're good the way you are". Because regardless how you twist it around, it's feel good bullshit. "Don't pretend to be someone you're not" is already a mixed bag ("fake it till you make it" can be infinitely more helpful to someone, I know for me it was), and "don't change" is definitely toxic.

[deleted] · 2015-10-21T12:29:59+00:00

What, exactly, does "be yourself" mean? Let's analyze the statement. It means, or can mean, a few things:

•Be honest with others

•Don't mischaracterize who you are

•Don't change who you are for someone else

•Follow your intuition

•Listen to your instincts

Let's presume that's true; that "be yourself" encompasses all of that "advice".

(It doesn't, not by a longshot, but hey, I'll humor you just this once. And thinking that "be yourself" includes the advice "follow your intuition" and "listen to your instincts" makes me wonder about who exactly is the retard here.)

Exactly NONE of this advice tells a man anything about:

--what makes him sexually attractive

--what women find sexually attractive

--how men and women are different in how they view attraction and respond to it

--how men and women are different in their responses to each other

--social cues and interactions

And a whole host of other things a boy needs to know to navigate the sociosexual arena.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

wtknight · 2015-10-21T12:02:28+00:00

I'm not entirely sure if you are making an anti-RP argument. TRP specifically caters to the socially inept, the fuck-ups, and the otherwise disenfranchised men that just don't "get it."

You have admitted that "Just be yourself" is not good advice for people who don't understand what it takes to be an attractive person. You agree that these people have not yet developed a framework on which to develop successful interactions with the opposite sex.

The difference between you and TRP, is that you are the type of person to insult these men and TRP tries to help them. Calling someone a retard, as if they are automatically supposed to understand how to conduct themselves in romantic situations displays a lack of empathy and understanding. I can relate to these people, because when I was rejected from the black and white groups at school due to my race, they were the only ones who accepted me. And while they were total degenerates in more than one way, the unanimous question they all had was "What are we doing wrong?"

While I was eventually able to expand my social circle and do quite well on the dating front in high-school, I never left that group of losers behind. Not because I felt sorry for them, but because they were honestly GOOD people. It just so happened when it came to women, or even generic social interactions they tended to be awkward and/or over-the-top. To this day, they remain some of my best friends and changed my outlook on life for the better.

One of the main reasons I support TRP even if I don't always agree with their ideas is because everyone else treats these guys like shit. BluePill does it, PurplePills do it, r/relationships does it, mainstream society does it, fucking everyone does it. The term "Nice Guys" is literally a derogatory way of insulting someone who is a woman's friend, and also interested in her but doesn't possess the social skills to be seen as a mate. It isn't because he "Doesn't value friendship and only wants sex," it's because he's a weirdo. And being a weirdo and having feelings for someone you care about is a cardinal sin.

"Be youself" is bad advice for men who have low confidence, poor physical traits, and few skills. It's vague and implies someone has no reason to change. TRP , whether you agree or not, is about providing the concrete steps to take in order to become someone with who that advice would actually resonate.

[deleted] · 2015-10-21T18:48:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

relationshipdownvote · 2015-10-21T13:28:38+00:00

Be yourself

If you suck, change yourself.

I can't believe that you don't see that those two pieces of advice are contradictory.

PIBagent · 2015-10-21T13:37:32+00:00

What, exactly, does "be yourself" mean? Let's analyze the statement.

The fact that the statement needs to be analyzed or assessed PROVES that it is terrible at being given instructional advice.

Several hallmarks of a good set of instructions include elaborating on key concepts, making explicit connection, and establishing and communicating clear specific learning objectives for each point made (http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/classroom_qa_with_larry_ferlazzo/2013/03/response_ten_elements_of_effective_instruction.html)

Just based on your talking points only two of them meet the criteria:

Be honest with others - fair enough honesty is important.
Don't mischaracterize who you are - what is an example of mischaracterization (details, etc)?
Don't change who you are for someone else - fair enough, changing things about yourself to to earn someones affection is never good.
Follow your intuition - is vague and assumes you intuition is always right.
Listen to your instincts - how do you listen to your instincts (details, examples, etc).
Act naturally - What does it mean to act natural (What is an example of not acting natural). In fact is it even possible to ACT natural as the very action of acting a certain way means your not a natural at it by default (i.e. natural).

Also

If you suck, change yourself. And then, guess what? You can be yourself just fine.

contradicts your earlier statement where you said:

Don't change who you are for someone else

bones_and_love · 2015-10-21T07:30:16+00:00

Haha, this reminds me of old kung fu movies.

"Master, I desperately need advice!"

master gives him an analogy/riddle that seems to make sense

--> student does everything wrong for a year until he figures out that it means the opposite of what it actually says.

--> Later "Why the fuck didn't you just tell me that I had to do the opposite? Why couldn't you just tell me that I had to change? I needed a year to solve the riddle. That was wasted on the time that I could have worked on changing myself. Fuck you master!"

skeetch_a_leak · 2015-10-21T07:56:17+00:00

So, in general, you're arguing in favour of TRP?

blametheboogie · 2015-10-21T10:39:23+00:00

Lots of boys instincts are to be quiet and shy, this is what's natural to them. Teaching them to be more outgoing is nowhere to be found in "be yourself " advice and that's what's needed.

Some kids need extra help in math or reading some kids need extra help in social skills.

What's so hard to understand about this?

Your last paragraph says to change yourself so you then can be yourself, did you actually read what you wrote?

Archwinger · 2015-10-21T12:24:56+00:00

I don't see how "You suck with girls because you're unattractive and need to start getting fit, successful, and doing your own shit instead of trying to placate women" counts as blaming women for not loving ugly smelly guys.

That fat acceptance, wear T-shirts that proudly proclaim you're a bitch, love me at my worst - that's a girl thing. Not a TRP thing. TRP says that if you suck with girls, work on sucking less.

disposable_pants · 2015-10-21T15:46:01+00:00

TL; DR: "You must be retarded if you don't understand women." Great shitpost, OP.

wanderer1976 · 2015-10-21T08:22:22+00:00

A better translation: Timmy and Sarah Timmy has oneitis for Sarah. It's the year 2015 CE in the western world. Timmy's mom has either chased off Timmy's dad or totally emasculated him to the point he is basically not there. Timmy's mom tells him that he is a special little snowflake, perfect just the way he is. He keeps trying and doesn't understand why Sarah thought it was stalking and got a restraining order placed against him. He repeats the pattern several times with no better results. Then, if he's lucky, he runs into a red pill sort of guy who tells him to take responsibility for himself and things he can control. He starts bathing, dresses better, writes with a pen, and works on social skills. Later he meets a girl that he really likes and repeats the larger pattern.

[deleted] · 2015-10-21T12:33:32+00:00

a complete social retard.

a social fuck-up

Well guess what, moron, sometimes you suck.

These don't sound like very scientific or objective statements. Those who criticize RP constantly crow about having the complete backing of science, yet this is their idea of "science"?

[deleted] · 2015-10-21T11:19:44+00:00

I like this thread, it's anti-redpill but it's brash and fun rather than feeling like it was written by some weirdo on tumblr.

ReddishBlack · 2015-10-21T12:03:21+00:00

Normies unfit to guide aspies

Ascended aspies should do this

Thus trp

prodigy2throw · 2015-10-21T14:32:59+00:00

You're not really saying anything against trp...

lbspredh · 2015-10-21T17:03:40+00:00

it's not bad advice, just non advice

Be honest with others Don't mischaracterize who you are Don't change who you are for someone else Follow your intuition Listen to your instincts Act naturally

these just don't play into whether people find you attractive or interesting in a dating capacity one way or the other, it's great for making lifelong friends though

I mean what you're saying here is be yourself, but only if yourself is attractive, it's not much use to be honest

theozoph · 2015-10-21T14:02:53+00:00

So, you've got no fucking idea what TRP talks about then?

Duly noted. Moron.

[deleted] · 2015-10-21T14:04:41+00:00

"Be honest with others" is pretty obviously good advice.

You can't be serious.

Lrellok · 2015-10-21T18:52:08+00:00

I am going to try to explain to you the massive levels of fucked up your post is.

First, you seem to think that people can transform themsleves into so socialy conformist drone while still "being themselves". They can't. People do not change who they are, they pretend to be fake people they are not. Your personality is the product of your life and expiereances. Unless you eface 20 to 40 years of life from a persons memories, they have not changed, they are simply being a fake person.

Second, as timmy understands and you do not, being yourself means being the product of your life and expiereances. Being that which is not the same as other people, being an indevigual, not a social drone. Your entire arguement that conforming gets you laid serves no purpose but to confirm everything redpill believes.

For a bunch of people who lionise lived expiereance, I would think this concept would be simpler. You are your lived expiereance. If you are anything else, you are a fake person.

GridReXX · 2015-10-21T10:59:47+00:00

I've been down this path before with them OP.

They honestly have no idea what the phrase means and yes they completely interpreted differently than anyone I've ever known.

Title	TRP misconstrues "be yourself" advice
Author	shamer_of_whores
Upvotes	5
Comments	102
Date	October 21, 2015 7:09 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3plrrl/trp_misconstrues_be_yourself_advice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/trp-misconstrues-be-yourself-advice.278942 https://theredarchive.com/post/278942

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