CMV: False rape accusations may be extremely common and we would have no idea of knowing.

sodabrothel · 2019-07-04T13:34:31+00:00

I think people see women going on TV to talk about their assault and being praised and think this is how it is for “regular” people. Then they see keyboard warriors virtue signaling over sexual assault survivors and think this, too, is the default response when rape is not some abstract thing you rave about for Internet validation, but a person you know in front of you telling you that another person you know hurt them. They think you’re given the star treatment and are coddled. People who already think sexual assault isn’t a serious problem cherrypick reactions to things like #MeToo and use it to support their confirmation bias that there’s some kind of incentive to reporting. That’s not how things really are at all. I wonder if they’ve actually ever talked to real women who have experienced sexual assault or abuse. I wonder if they have any idea how uncomfortable and vulnerable it is in almost all situations not as a celebrity on a talk show, but as just a regular woman, to bring up that someone forced you to have sex with them.

I get that this is anecdotal, but at least back in ~2015 when I went through this, most of the attention I received wasn’t positive or wanted. I lost most of my friends who found out I’d reported and was repeatedly told by family members and friends that I was “ruining” my assailant’s life and that what had happened “wasn’t that bad,” even though I had PTSD from the event that was so severe, I couldn’t hold a job. I don’t regret reporting, but even as someone who was telling the truth, it was absolutely terrible.

I think people also see the social media outrage machine and think this is the standard the accused are held to in criminal court. It definitely is not. Yes, people have occasionally been wrongfully convicted. In a country of 300 million people, that’s virtually unavoidable at least on some level — despite a multimillion dollar, often decades-long appeal process with capital punishment specifically designed to avoid this, we still manage to occasionally put innocent people to death, FFS. But in general, the standard is still beyond a reasonable doubt. Incarceration rates relative to incidence and report rates of rape reflect this. Wrongful convictions make the news. Guys getting away with rape do not, and probably for a reason: it’s not news.

I had numerous text and recorded messages of me asking my assailant point-blank whether he raped me, to which he answered “yes.” He’d confessed it to numerous people we knew as well who could have been subpoenaed. But his lawyer basically tore my character limb from limb and presented it to the DA. I have a history of mental health difficulties, so the argument was that he had admitted it “to make me feel better.” That was the official defense, and it worked. He was never charged. The DA felt it would be too hard to disprove this in front of a jury and explained to me that if they did take it to court, I could look forward to being humiliated in front of a room full of people as my personal health information, sexual history, and everything else they could dig up were put on display. Criminal court is not Buzzfeed, and the people on the jury aren’t all 21-year-old gender studies majors. They don’t just throw people in jail for being accused, and I think most people realize this. If it didn’t happen, there’s almost no way in hell the criminal justice system is going to believe you. Even if it did, the odds are not in your favor.

Social media confessions and disclosures might be different, but while I see why someone might take advantage of plausible deniability and lie to avoid years of jail time, I genuinely don’t see any logical reason why any person in anything remotely resembling their right mind would go through the criminal justice process for sexual assault without deep personal conviction. I can maybe see people on the tail end of the bell curve with severe personality disorders making up a story for friends and family to get revenge after a bad breakup, but going to the cops with no evidence because it never happened is next-level unreasonable. I see no benefits and plenty of detriments. Even if you win and actually were raped, the entire thing is grueling and often takes years. I guess there’s no way to spit out an exact false-report number. That’s probably true with any crime. But the FBI stats that false rape report rates are aligned with those of other crimes makes sense to me.

reluctantly_red · 2019-07-04T14:51:52+00:00

Sample size is to small to be statistically valid but about 60% of the rape cases I've handled involved suspect allegations. About 30% were outright false.

Examples: (1) High school kid and his GF get caught having sex by a school security guard. The girl is so afraid of her abusive father she lies and says her BF forced himself on her. School district makes find the security guard very difficult and police never interview him. When my defense investigator finally finds him he says "looked consensual to me". (2) Pathetic beta guy lets his old crush (all the way back to jr. high) move in because she has nowhere else to go. He pays her rent and her bills. She gives him just enough affection to keep him on the hook. She jokes with her friends about using him. One night she's a bit drunk and horny so she sleeps with him. In the middle of the act some of her friends come by. They tease her about sleeping with him. To avoid embarrassment she accuses him of rape.

In both of these cases charges where eventually dismissed. The really scary thing is that in both case these females had previously made allegations against other guys who actually did go to prison. The high school girl had made a similar allegation against an older guy when confronted by her father a year prior. The woman told SWAT officers her former drug dealer BF had kidnapped her and was holding her against her will when they raided their apartment. Cops are part of the problem. Many believe any BS story women tell them.

SweetLikeTupeloHoney · 2019-07-04T12:30:33+00:00

There is no way to know. The data just isn't collected in a meaningful way. What falls out of the count are the many times charges are dropped by the accuser - attrition. That is a charge was made but the case was stopped before a charge is made. This could be a realization by the victim that regret is not rape or being overwhelmed by the process. The percent of times a rape charge results in a conviction is very low. There is a lot of police bashing going on in this thread but it seems to be based on a lack of understanding of the criminal justice process. Police are required to take reports and investigate the facts. A predominantly male influenced occupation making up evidence to lock up other men is an unrealistic idea.

willtheriver · 2019-07-04T11:34:07+00:00

As I noted elsewhere in this thread, "Attrition Studies" are far from satisfactory when determining the number of "true" or "false" sexual offense "reports". Even official law enforcement results leave > 90% of "records" inconclusive. Why is this the case in every Western jurisdiction?

Police officers from across the UK, explain the entire phenomenon, reaching the conclusion that real rape is rare, and most allegations are false.

SEE: http://archive.li/Ns35n

Britta Rabe, a sexual offense investigator from Rostock, Germany, says that 80% of the complaints she investigates are false. Ms. Rabe is backed-up by her boss, Rogan Liebmann, who further asserts that the results are similar in every German jurisdiction.

Linda Fairstein, until very recently, know as America's top sex crimes expert, expressed similar sentiments. But, as we have subsequently recently found out, Ms. Fairstein is a deeply conflicted and duplicitous character.

See: https://imgur.com/a/MQjlg (top of 3rd pg.)

Within Ms. Fairstein's quote we find the kicker into all statistics regarding sexual offenses registered anywhere in the world. There has never been 4000 annual UCR "records" of rape in all NYC, let alone just Manhattan.

Alas though, the UK police explain the entire phenomenon, and the statistics.

flamingoinghome · 2019-07-04T09:40:31+00:00

> It's a fact that men can be jailed without proof of the offense.

How is rape unique in this case? Many, many people have been jailed for crimes based on circumstantial evidence and were later found to be innocent. Some of those were for far more severe crimes--murder, for instance. There have been people exonerated by DNA evidence while on death row, which is perhaps the main reason I oppose the death penalty.

Now, there ARE crimes that don't actually fall under the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt". All that's required for conviction is a "preponderance of evidence". Whether or not any given assault falls into that category varies.

If this is something that troubles you (as well it might!), I suggest looking into one of the many, many organizations in favor of criminal justice reform.

angels-fan · 2019-07-04T14:08:14+00:00

My problem with this whole narrative is that we pretty much know approx 10% are for sure rapists, 10% are for sure false claims and 80% we have no clue.

Yet feminists take that 80% and say "those are all rapists that are walking free!!!"

I could just as easily say those 80% are all false rape accusations.

Neither is right, but at least have the honesty to admit you don't know. But that would hurt the rape culture narrative, so feminists lie. It's what they do.

the_sea_witch · 2019-07-04T09:30:48+00:00

The conviction rate for men charged with rape is extremely low. In Australia it is less than 3%.

pnadlerlaw · 2019-07-04T13:47:43+00:00

Here is what we also may never know:

how many “true/real” rapes result in convictions.

How do we measure that? How do we measure whether a “real” rapist or “real” victim found justice? Based on “self-reported,” “I was raped”? What? Are we assuming all those statements are true? Then let’s just save time and dispense with the trial. “No, but she’s being truthful.” How do you know? Did you hook her up to a mind reading machine?

The fact is, we don’t know how many “real/true” rapes occur, and how many of those “true/real” rapes lead to proper convictions ...

... and vice versa, how many “false” rape claims lead to wrongful convictions, and how many “reported and unreported” “alleged rapes” are actually false.

We will never know either one of those statistics with any degree of certainty.

willtheriver · 2019-07-04T10:53:00+00:00

I have read a great number of "Attrition Studies", always done by female members of the "rape culture" complex, and called this because all demonstrate vast attrition from reporting a sexual offense to law enforcement to actual conviction. The percentage of convictions, as a percent of "reports", is always in the single digits, often the low single digits, This fact jives with the percent of convictions, as a percent of official "records", often derided by "rape culture" members. Further these studies also point out the number of false reports, as a percent of all reports. which is usually also low. Reading these reports is unsatisfying because between convictions and false reports there exists a vast chasm, often greater than 90% of reports where the reader is left in the lurch: not knowing if the the report is true or false.

Gravel_Roads · 2019-07-04T09:08:34+00:00

Most people in prison claim to be innocent. What if MOST people were imprisoned falsely? What if crime was an illusion and everyone was actually innocent?

"What-If" games are unproductive. At some point, you have to just go by the evidence.

Rape happens a lot, though, and frequently goes unreported due to shame and social stigma. I certainly wouldn't recommend trusting people charged with sex crimes to watch your kids.

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Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-07-04T14:18:29+00:00

There is never "proof" in a court, only EVIDENCE sufficient to convict. Everyone is jailed without proof. Rape is one of the most difficult crimes to get a conviction for.

"He said, she said" is a nonsense formulation when discussing law, testimony is the primary evidence in almost any case.

Can you link to any recent cases of these rescinded charges to discuss? Are you talking about cases where sex occurred and the woman falsely characterizes the sex as rape, or cases where the man never touched the woman?

[deleted] · 2019-07-04T11:35:44+00:00

It's like rape: more common than you think and damned difficult to prove.

saphirekey · 2019-07-04T23:14:56+00:00

Its hard to know either way, because all rape isn't reported either. Or even taken seriously. When I went to report my abusive ex, the police didn't want to go through with the report because he was in the military, even though he threatened to shoot my parents if they didn't tell him where I was and there's a chance he was the one who almost ran over my sisters on multiple occasions since one of them bought my parents' old house and hosted multiple bonfires.

Theres also some stupid beliefs like the hymen is present in only virgins but the presence of a hymen is not a tale of virginity.

willtheriver · 2019-07-06T22:54:06+00:00

So, having read the responses to your query, and considered the offered evidence, I would say, backstable, that you have a good answer! >80% of rape accusations, in the words of "America's top sex crimes expert", "simply didn't happen". Or to put it in the words police officers from across the UK, "real rape is rare and most accusations are false", then the officers go on to say, "but they aren't allowed to say that". It's taboo.

As proof of my assertion, that you, backstable, have received a definitive answer to your question I note that I have responded excellently to all that are in opposition to my surmising of the matter. None of these responses have as yet received an adequate parry. Consequently that is how I can make such an assertion to you, backstable. Do you see my reconnoitering of the discussion deficient in any way. If so let me know. Less than that I bid you adieu, and celebrate another clear-thinking mind.

rhymenisce · 2019-07-04T17:53:12+00:00

Here’s a big unpopular solution -

don’t drink alcohol while dating or with men and they don’t drink either.
don’t get in a situation where assault can happen.
if something does start happening - MACE the guy and run and call police.

The thing is girls initially are turned on by the “forceful” sexuality a lot of times, and only later do they feel like a slut and society tells them that , oh this was date rape etc and they say oh yeah! This wasn’t me being a slut! It was the evil men! I just didn’t know they were so evil.

Title	CMV: False rape accusations may be extremely common and we would have no idea of knowing.
Author	backstable
Upvotes	42
Comments	246
Date	July 4, 2019 12:18 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/c8vs4d/cmv_false_rape_accusations_may_be_extremely/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-false-rape-accusations-may-be-extremely-common.255086 https://theredarchive.com/post/255086

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