FR: Failed badly on second date

Ap_Ercino · 2014-10-20T15:35:13+00:00

As soon as you started to notice the chemistry between your date and friend you should have started gaming one of her friends and/or other girls at the bar.

MLMIKE39 · 2014-10-20T14:36:00+00:00

Don't bring along your taller, better looking, suaver, more charming friend when you're going out with a hot girl. (I actually thought having him along would score me points for having a friend like that. What was I thinking??!?)

If I were you, I'd start here. You need to work on improving your self-esteem. If you felt like you were "the man", it wouldn't matter who you brought along. She obviously picked up on your insecurity and it was over.

_Shakespeares_Sister · 2014-10-20T16:21:23+00:00

Has anyone ever made a list of 'dates you should avoid?'

Here's a few dates I would avoid, and why:

1) Don't go on dates where she brings a friend. The main reason a woman invites a friend along on a date is because she doesn't feel comfortable around you. So if she insists on bringing a friend, that's a bad sign. Of course, if she brings YOU out to meet a bunch of her friends, that's a good sign, it means she's proud of you. But if she schedules a "date" and brings a friend along, it's not really a date. It's two girls hanging out together and ignoring you while spending your money.

2) IMHO the best first dates are 'intimate.' In other words, I would rather go on a date with a man to a restaurant or bar where I can get to know him. If she insists on going to a loud bar or a club, that's not a good sign. I know that's a controversial statement; plenty of people meet other people in loud nightclubs. But for a date, I don't think it's ideal, it's hard to get to know someone in a club. And if she's not interested in getting to know you, then why are you there? Chances are good she simply wants you to pay attention to her and buy her drinks, and that's not a great place to start out from.

Just my .02

The_Americano · 2014-10-20T18:39:53+00:00

Most wouldn't bothered writing an FR an such disastrous night but it's having the ability to recognize your mistakes and committing yourself to not doing them again that separates the men from the boys. Good luck and stay strong!

FishFoxFerret · 2014-10-20T15:14:21+00:00

I actually thought having him along would score me points

No. Other things don't score you points. You don't even score yourself points.
You are the fucking points.

jadedspade · 2014-10-20T18:02:57+00:00

she suggested I meet up with her and her friends on Saturday night.

This is what you did wrong. You let her frame the date. You should have said no and suggested another time to meet with just you instead of her friends. If she isn't willing to invest her time into you, she is not worth it. Spin other plates.

prodigyx · 2014-10-20T18:30:46+00:00

Good FR and good responses from the community. I feel as if I have learned from your experience. Thanks for sharing.

Red_Pill_Theory · 2014-10-20T20:58:43+00:00

Another piece of advice, which some of you will probably disagree with. If you haven't had sex with a girl, don't hang out with her and her friends. If they don't like you, they'll convince her that you're bad for her.

I know that has nothing to do with this post, but it's just something I noticed that I wanted to chime in with.

sureshot8 · 2014-10-20T15:01:03+00:00

We had trouble making schedules work for the second date

This is all you need to know. No girl who wants to fuck you will ever have a problem making her schedule work. I've had girls who'd swim across an ocean for my dick at a moment's notice if every boat and airplane were destroyed.

knitro · 2014-10-20T17:47:54+00:00

I wouldn't sweat it too much - these things happen even to pretty successful dudes. There will always be someone better, so sometimes you get one-upped. It's something to learn from, so for that reason alone it's a net positive. That sounds a little 'feel-goody' but its the approach you have to maintain.

You lost your frame because you saw your buddy who probably has greater success than you turn his attention towards a girl you were interested in and knowing his track record, you basically panicked, lost frame and ceded him the win. It's a hard thing not to do, because your aren't wrong (he has a higher SMV), but it doesn't mean you can't hold serve, especially with the slight upperhand of already kissing her.

Your friends (if they're friends) should respect the 'dibs'. You can't account for the fact that even if he was trying to carry your torch he was more appealing to her, but from the sound of it he was inserting himself as an available option to her. This is not the behavior of friends (and I'm not saying this is some stupid 'bros before hoes' thing) - you trust your friends to be loyal and elevate you in the eyes of potential relationships, not snipe and take you down a few pegs in her eyes.

Let's assume his actions weren't intentional or out of malice, rather he just can't turn off the charm. Have the explicit conversation with him about what you feel he did, and why. Either this should nip it from happening again, or he doesn't care about your feelings. If this is a repeat thing, suddenly this person isn't really being much of a friend and you should weigh the value you they are actually providing in your life.

TRPs whole point on mate-guarding is as follows: If she's going to wander, she's going to wander. You come off as insecure when it's being done. This doesn't mean be a naive dope. If she's clubbing til 5 am it doesn't mean don't be suspicious, just realize that no matter how much you want to watch/control her, she'll find the way if she really wants to - its an unwinnable, pointless endeavor and you come across much better not engaging in it. If she's a quality girl, she'll alert other guys to your presence/existence when it is necessary.

sirpsycho3 · 2014-10-20T17:23:15+00:00

Never meet up with her with her friends, your following her narrative. Also her friends have an entirely different energy that's higher with a tone of adventure. You're a tag along. I suggest one on one, and on days that are not Friday and Saturday. You've already escalated sexually, either invite her over to your place or go to a quiet bar for drinks.

When the energy is low and the temperature high is where you want to be. You can't say that suave deep voiced shit you imagine in your head when everyone is in party mode. You can but you have to isolate. Save that fun shit when she's already in your back pocket.

tombreck2 · 2014-10-20T14:56:03+00:00

so she suggested I meet up with her and her friends on Saturday night

Sounds more like she wasn't interested but wanted an orbiter.

On a positive note, you posted this here and not /relationships so you are heading in the right direction

TheOneWhoWokeUp · 2014-10-20T14:38:43+00:00

First, yes you should not have brought someone along with much higher SMV than you...Second, he sounds like a shitty friend if that just happened.

But I think key here for you, is you care way to much. You are trying way too hard. After all the planning that goes into setting up dates most people go in with high expectations and something like this happens and they don't know what to do. You should have got there and been able to not let things get to you. If you would have not cared (or at least showed you didn't) and moved on right away, even dread gaming her by going after another girl, things would have probably gone better for you.

Also, try to handle your alcohol better.

kolike_ranga · 2014-10-20T15:09:08+00:00

So there was this weird sexual tension between them throughout the night, and it made me really anxious<

You said it was a group setting. Did she bring along attractive friends with her? If she had, then you could have ignored her and gone for one of her friends.

Doomsday_ · 2014-10-20T15:46:53+00:00

she suggested I meet up with her and her friends on Saturday night. She also suggested I bring friends since there would be a group of girls.

Friends are the ultimate cockblockers. It's impossible for you to escalate when they are around. Never agree to such a "date."

So there was this weird sexual tension between them throughout the night, and it made me really anxious. So I drank more, and could never recover my composure / frame.

The solution of what to do in this situation is simple. You ignore her and flirt with/hit on her friends to make her jealous. If she doesn't try to regain your attention, take things as far as you can go with one of her friends. Your problem is that you were too focused on her. Better to have fun and show that you're a high-value man with options.

Another possible course of action is simply to leave mysteriously. Pretend you got an important text or phone call that you "have to deal with" and take your leave (just do this calmly and matter-of-factly--make sure as you do so that it doesn't seem that you 're leaving because you're angry/butthurt). This will create intrigue (she'll wonder what's going on) as well as showing that you aren't tripping over your feet chasing her.

ilirm · 2014-10-20T16:42:47+00:00

she suggested I meet up with her and her friends on Saturday night

There’s your first mistake, meeting up with her friends before you bang. It’s a chance for her group to judge you and it can only lead to her rejecting you. Never good, second dates are at a bar within walking distance to your apartment. No exceptions.

Then my friend arrived. She literally did a double take, and the evening went south from there. He's a good looking guy, with lots of style and charm. More than me. And as luck would have it, he was enamoured with her as well

Your friend is a cunt and you should cut him out of your life if he does this again.

and it made me really anxious. So I drank more, and could never recover my composure / frame. After bar hopping a bit we ended up at a late night restaurant, where the group talked about the normal weird stuff people talk about when somewhat drunk. I was pretty much unable to contribute, because I was so freaked out by the interaction I could see playing out between my friend and my date. When I did talk, it was awkward and not good, and they ended up making fun of me a bit. At one point someone asked me what I did for a living, and I went on a long drunken spiel about my job and how awesome I am at it and how much money I make (cringe).

Now you have put yourself in a bad situation. You bring a friend, youre a cool guy, therefore your friends are cool. If your friends are cool, you shouldn’t have to AMOG them. If your friends are cool, they wont steal your girl, like desperate loser you brought.

By bringing a desperate loser along, you not only demonstrated lower value, but by not amoging him, you also demonstrated that you are not the leader of your group.

Ideally you should avoid this situation altogether by bringing someone who knows how to be a good wingman. Someone who is game aware, and knows some basic concepts, someone who you shouldn’t have to AMOG. Bitches like dudes who “get it”, and you demonstrated that you and your friend are not those guys.

How I would've handled this, and I've had to do this before with roommates, is i'd send him a text on his phone or something to back the fuck off. then i'd tap him on the shoulder and ask him to read it. If he doesn't get the message, then pull him aside for a moment and tell him to stop fucking talking to her and go distract her friends. If he fails to do both of these, then you are forced to ridicule him, and fuck with him just as you would a hostile dude in a set.

Show me your text log with her afterwards. Im curious to find out how you handled the incoming rejection.

Edit: The guys below me are saying to game one of her friends, well, that would've maybe worked in a normal situation, but that may not have worked here, seeing as your "wingman" was making you look bad in front of the whole group overall, not just your target. Trying to game another girl in the group who you have already lost significant value with, is a losing battle. You were fucked from the beginning. I would chastise your "friend" heavily for this. I'm sure you let him know who the target was beforehand and who to distract. The fact that he was gaming your chick is a passive aggressive tactic on his end and you should let him know that it is not acceptable.

Iupvoteforknowledge · 2014-10-20T19:15:19+00:00

Cut off all contact with her, hard next and start working on your next conquest.

SmellyJelly22 · 2014-10-21T01:24:09+00:00

Your take-aways 1, 2 and 4 are wrong. There is nothing wrong with group dates (I actually prefer them because I don't have to listen to her talk all night) and there is nothing wrong with bringing your hotter friend. Bragging is also fine if you do it subtly.

Your issue was this: sometimes a girl just doesn't like you. That's fine. Shit happens. She didn't like you as much as your friend. Whatever. Some girls just like certain things. Whenever I'm out with a girl and she starts talking to another guy, I let her. If she likes him more than me, fine. If she likes me more, she'll come back. I don't have anything to prove, and I'm definitely not going to compete with another dude for pussy. The only time I will interject into their conversation is if I feel like I'm being rude by ignoring them.

I actually have a really hot friend that I use as bait. His game is really good, but mine is IMPECCABLE. So he approaches girls, starts chatting them up, and then I move on and play the "wingman." But I wingman so good, a lot of times the hottie in the group moves from liking him to liking me. All that said, we never steal each other's pussy.

Sandkasten · 2014-10-20T15:35:41+00:00

The problem was not your friend. It was you. Coping with failure is crucial for success. The question is how you bounce back from failure?

I don't think it was a mistake to bring your friend along. Your mistake was not facing the competition. You said don't get anxious, let it go, don't overdrink, stay calm and keep frame. Good points. But your mistake was inaction! It sounds like you spent the night analyzing the dynamics between your date and your friend instead of talking/flirting with her friends. The things you said and did reflected probably your "I'm losing her" mindset, for example bragging about your job.

I would say keep going out with your friend. Face the competition. Avoiding uncofortable/challenging situation won't help you.

fuckwithpurpose · 2014-10-20T15:42:06+00:00

2 Don't bring along your taller, better looking, suaver, more charming friend when you're going out with a hot girl.

I can hardly reconcile this in my head, because it seems insecure like covert mate guarding. I've not been in an LTR in my new city, but for dating sofar I shelter them from BP friends and my one certain BP but taller/suaver/better dressed/richer friend, because they do tend to take an instant liking to him as well.

Do naturals worry about this, or is it just something for the transition out of wrecked beta? How do naturals respond to their less attractive friends' date taking interest in them?

DiebytheSword666 · 2014-10-20T16:55:36+00:00

Ah . . . the text. It's happened to the best of us. Live and learn. I've agreed to the group meetings, too. It's just too early when you've only been on a date.

Coach Corey Wayne has some useful tips on Youtube. Check him out.

And best of luck!

__ROOSTER__ · 2014-10-20T16:56:01+00:00

Honestly don't take a girl on dates unless you've already slept with her and she is committed to your team.

Anything resembling a classic date with a girl who won't drop to her knees and worship you is beta land IMO

30303030303030 · 2014-10-20T19:00:17+00:00

Tough hit, hard to recover for most men but it had to happen. Hurts more because you stabbed yourself with bringing that fellow. The proper thing to do was just stay relaxed and lightly go after her friends, not like you are trying to hurt her by making it even, but it's easy to say.

You got your lesson and this is how it will be and since you probably know that better than I do, I'll finish my thought for the younger guys here. You will fuck up. You can be here and read, read pick up books but it will do you no good after a point. You can be theoretically prepared for situation like that but actually going through it is another thing completely. I had that done to me, when a girl I was into did a 180 on me with a guy that just walked in. It hurts. "Keep your frame, just get another, act like nothing happened", yeah I know, good luck with that.

Points 1-4 are good.

I can't control the situation, so stay calm and in frame. I have NO idea how to do this, so suggestions welcomed.

Abundance mentality. Unfortunately it comes only with experience and confidence in your ability to pull women, this again comes only with real life experience. So be ready for such situation to happen again. It will. No way around it.

TominatorXX · 2014-10-20T20:56:48+00:00

Some friend.

What's the saying: "With friends like that, who needs enemies?"

THAT is not a friend.

TRPsubmitter · 2014-10-20T21:35:24+00:00

so she suggested I meet up with her and her friends on Saturday night.

I think this was your first mistake. While group dates can work out, I hate them.

too much out of your control. Just way to many factors that are unknown. Too many forces acting on your date. No isolation. Harder to escalate. Harder to nail down logistics when you want to bounce
Plus the new generation's inability to go on a 1:1 date is annoying. It's all about "hanging out" and getting her gfs to shit test you or act as cockblockers.

[deleted] · 2014-10-20T22:32:53+00:00

Don't AMOG yourself. Never group dates. Intimate bars or your house only. There is not much else to it. Everytime I deviate from this it never works out.

thenegropuppy · 2014-10-20T22:40:52+00:00

Your friend should have been a good wingman and helping you out subtly, even going for one of the girls friends to set up the illusion of a fun double date type event. But seems like you over analyze thins and still show a scarcity mentality. The less you personally invest in women during interactions, the better you will do, paradoxically

Dark-Ulfberht · 2014-10-21T16:54:30+00:00

On to the next!

This is correct. You should have just done it sooner--like 30 seconds after she started hitting on your friend.

My time is precious to me. Even the slightest sign that a girl isn't interested, I'm leaving. This probably cost me dates and hookups from time to time, but my time has always been more precious than some girl's attention.

After all, there are billions of women out there. They make new ones every few seconds. There's only one of me.

SamGill · 2014-10-20T20:28:51+00:00

hey this is not necesesarily a bad thing for a LTR - if she can't hang on to you in front of you, there's no chance when she's alone behind your back. good filter here mate.

relationshipdownvote · 2014-10-20T16:59:38+00:00

so she suggested I meet up with her and her friends

She also suggested I bring friends

It sounds like she's being the man here. You could have brought a Louie Anderson lookalike and she probably still would have gone for him because your submissiveness is incredibly unattractive.

Group settings are not good for second dates

Group settings are not good for any dates.

newbie3hunna · 2014-10-20T20:39:58+00:00

Group settings are fine if you can hold frame but not ideal.
Having attractive friends is always a positive. That wasn't the problem.
Hold frame.
Better to show than tell if that makes sense.

favours_of_the_moon · 2014-10-21T00:25:36+00:00

1: Do NOT get down on yourself. You were out there, not sitting at home behind a keyboard thinking about it. Don't worry about getting rattled. You're now up one level of desensitization.

2: Don't worry about bragging about yourself. Never apologize for being awesome.

3: Sounds weird from what you describe. Might your friend and your date have hit it with each other before?

yummyluckycharms · 2014-10-21T02:19:47+00:00

Some people will say group dates are fine - I disagree - isolating your target is key and group dates tend to go nowhere due to the mother hens which cluck incessantly over their flock

Secondly, touting your own horn is essential - show or tell. Essential while at work, or in dating world to demonstrate SMV. Why do people get pictured next to a porsche or a yacht? why do people spend hundreds of dollars on designer watches that are only briefly shown at work with the flash of a wrist? Because it works in demonstrating status.

Pushnikov · 2014-10-21T03:15:46+00:00

I've never understood the reaction to stress by drinking more. Sure, I psyche myself out - I get nervous, I fuck up. But drinking more has no correlation to controlling my stress.

Anyways, sounds like you know your issues. Learn, continue.

Personally, I avoid group situations with ANY plate. I have ONE exception to this, but I met her through the group, and I only hang out with her with the group I met her in.

So, ya. Frankly, don't ever group up for dates.

Also, when it's all her girlfriends judging you, you are going to get a lot of bullshit feedback from her friends through her. You really have NO idea why she isn't "Feeling" it. It could be a lot of things that got into her head. Too many variables to account for and control. That's the real reason to avoid groups until she is so well properly fucked by you that she doesn't care what anyone else says.

mega_beta · 2014-10-21T03:59:41+00:00

Hey man, why are you bringing a friend to your dates? If I went on a first date with an average looking girl, then she brought a smoking hot girl friend of hers to the second date, I might overlook the first date too.

GaiusScaevolus · 2014-10-21T02:49:19+00:00

Don't bring along your taller, better looking, suaver, more charming friend when you're going out with a hot girl. (I actually thought having him along would score me points for having a friend like that. What was I thinking??!?)

You can bring a friend, but you really should have pre-communicated the roles for the evening with him.

Failing that, always know the strengths and weaknesses of your "team". I'm objectively the 2nd or 3rd best looking guy in my group, but I'm also the strongest. So in that group, my game switches to a kino heavy, slightly aggressive style, to compensate for my surroundings.

gideonrakthor · 2014-10-25T22:48:33+00:00

I wouldn't say never brag, but the point is that a well grounded alpha male isn't hesitant to confess his abilities/skills but at the same time acts as if they don't matter. Everything about you (what and how you say things, when, body language, etc) should make everyone feel like you are just awesome, not because of x, y, or z. You just are. That's the mastery part of practicing amused mastery.

Title	FR: Failed badly on second date
Author	_penseroso_
Upvotes	104
Comments	86
Date	October 20, 2014 2:29 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2jsc2h/fr_failed_badly_on_second_date/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/fr-failed-badly-on-second-date.23293 https://theredarchive.com/post/23293

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