First of all, just so you know where I am coming from I'm male and very left wing and a critic of feminism. I like feminists; I just think they are wrong. If you're not willing to accept criticism of feminism then you know... trigger warning for feminists who can't stand anyone disagreeing with them.

Now I'm 100% for equality and that's my problem with feminism. Obviously it is not 100% for equality. We all know plenty of examples of feminist bigots so let's not go over that ground. A more interesting question for me, and the one I am aiming at here is what sort of proportion of feminists are man hating bigots and what proportion are just sexist people that tolerate bigotry in others and what sort of proportion are naively clueless about just how nasty the rest of the movement is and actually support equality like I do? Other classifications could exist. My point is that not all feminists are the same. I think we can agree there?

Before I get too far I should clarify that this is NOT a question about the gender gap per se. I am asking a question about the character of the feminist movement. People have different views on what feminism is. Some people think it is a hate movement (me). Other people say it is an equality movement. Who knows, right? Nobody "represents" feminism I've been told, so there's no way to tell the truth.

But then it struck me that maybe you could tell the difference if eg. you discovered that most feminists like to spread lies that tend to make women hate men. Given those two conflicting hypotheses you would expect quite different results. If feminism was a hate movement you'd expect a large proportion of feminists to behave that way. If feminism was an equality movement such behaviour would be an aberration.

And so I test. I ask feminists about the gender wage gap not because I care about that per se (well I do but separately) but to see how many will tell me false information, that women get paid 72 cents on the dollar for the same work as men. Almost all do. Then I have to follow up and ask if they know what they said was untrue. And about 80% do. But it has been a while since I've asked a lot so I wondered if anything had changed.

Now before you get going on some statistics about relative pay and all that STOP. I don't care (for the purposes of this question). This is not a question about the gender wage gap. I know all that stuff thanks. I know feminists like to say all that stuff about how women get pushed into lower paying jobs and discrimination in hiring practices. I know the MRA side of it too (not an MRA myself). That's not my question.

But I am going to have to address it anyways of course.

"Gee David, I am a feminist who sincerely believes that women get screwed on wages because they are pressured into lower paying jobs, or because of hiring discrimination or because traditional "women's jobs" get paid less. I really honestly do think that and it's no lie, but I know that won't impress anyone. I know I can't put that in a five second slogan. I know nobody is going to get too upset about me saying "women get paid less than men for completely different work". So I tell a white lie. I say "women get paid less for the exact same work". I know that's not true. I know that 72 cents figure comes from averaging ALL men and ALL women full time workers. I know it is comparing (for example) a male surgeon with a female bus driver, and I know it is completely dishonest to do that and call it "equal work". But I really think women get screwed. A bit less. So it's not really a lie is it? Not much of one."

So I hope my question is clear now. I assume every feminist here has heard the 72 cents thing before. It's not always 72 cents. Might be 75, 78, 69. Equal pay day site says 77 cents. Whatever. You've all heard it. How many of you know it is a lie? How many of you repeat it anyway? and how many of you have never heard that it is a lie?

Thanks!