Why are you an MRA?

r0dlilje · 2011-06-20T19:34:46+00:00

I don't need to have a personally negative event or be a man to be an egalitarian - men and women deserve equitable and fair protection and treatment under law, and there are many inequalities on both sides of the equation.

Recognizing this and taking action is the key to being an activist.

Rex9 · 2011-06-21T01:53:00+00:00

I watched one of my closest friends go through a divorce. The judge F'ed him over so hard it wasn't funny. He was a dedicated father and family man, and his ex has crushed him with debt and poisoned his daughters' minds against him. He hasn't seen them in 8 years (partially because he gave up, partially because he had to move across country to keep a job).

Then came my divorce. My wife birthed the babies, but that pretty much ended her involvement with the children other than playing transportation. I cooked, cleaned, bathed, played, read stories. She admitted in court that she didn't do the daily care for them. My whole life was my family. She didn't care anything but for herself. Judge didn't care. She got physical custody and fairly crushing (for me) child support. I was destroyed.

My life has been a battle for the last 5 years to maintain involvement in my childrens' lives. My ex is slowly carving me out. Teachers don't care. If you're a man, you are a second class citizen to the community where your children are concerned.

So yeah, I found this subreddit and started educating myself.

radamanthine · 2011-06-20T20:35:00+00:00

Family court took the life of a relative

Many events before and after led me to point the finger at feminism, though.

E.g. feminists excusing female-on-male rape.

rantgrrl · 2011-06-20T21:24:51+00:00

My mother had a dual personality.

On the one hand she was an admirable go-getter and completely lacked moral cowardice (and was a former feminist.) On the other hand she was... let's just say, the daughter of alcoholism with serious boundary issues both sexual and emotional.

I grew up with feminist literature but the one thing that made a huge impact on me was 'free to be you and me' and it's pro-equality message. In many ways equality became my central code of conduct. But, apparently, I take it far beyond what's considered appropriate for main stream feminists.

When I was going through my teenage angst years and it's attendant compulsive need for a scapegoat for all my insecurities(men), I became extremely feminist (also influenced by feminist teachers and fellow students.)

My mother gave me the book 'Who Stole Feminism?' because she felt I was getting too radical.

That was the beginning for me.

radamanthine · 2011-06-20T22:25:49+00:00

I joined twoxchromosomes and one day I found mensrights, cant remember how, anyway. At first I thought it was a joke and would be full of old fashioned - Keep that bitch in the kitchen or the bedroom - types. However this community was the polar opposite. It opened my eyes to the misandry that accompanies and is just as bad as misogyny in our society. I realised that just as men are fueled messages by our society of only wanting sex and how in movies there are often no strong female characters etc, women are fed the message that all men are bastard, rapist, douchebag, deadbeat, scum. Just as many broken men believe that since they've had a lot of bad relationships with women they should hate all women the same is true of the opposite sex.

some shit on both subreddits piss me off and are just outright bigoted but for the most part it helps.

OThomson · 2011-06-20T22:35:29+00:00

Hah my story as an MRA, it's a biggun.

It starts with my father finding out about my mothers affair (i'll admit he was an abusive drunk) after a particularly brutal fight (one which warranted all the injuries being photographed by the police incase it went to court) my mother (for our own good) removed us from our father for three years. Note there was no trial to determine custody and he didn't challenge her decision (His job has him outside the country half of the year)

Fastforward three year when they reconciliate and begin living together again, by now i am incredibly alienated with my father, i can barely sit in a room with him without feeling uncomfortable, it was at this time i began attending college and meeting with Feminists in an Academic environment, and to be honest i was red with anger that they would imply that i am privileged in society, I saw the expectations placed on me as a giant burden (my family is incredibly traditional) and when those same Feminists rejected the notion that Men were in anyway oppressed i flipped, i frantically googled Men's rights and for weeks i moved between different sites, starting with Pelle Billing, GMP (I know i know don't judge) Avoiceformen and eventually settling here, i'm not currently involved in any activism more interested in understanding theories and forming a wholesome platform for MRA's to campaign on.

EvilPundit · 2011-06-20T20:02:37+00:00

There was no triggering event. I simply became aware of the discrimination against men in our society, and the many injustices caused by it.

It's erroneous to assume that everyone who supports men's rights has been personally affected - just as it would be wrong to assume that everyone who opposes slavery was a slave.

radamanthine · 2011-06-20T23:30:14+00:00

Mommy issues here. I was raised by a feminist and it took years for me to learn to respect myself after leaving the home.

liskolainen · 2011-06-20T23:40:31+00:00

Nothing bad happened to me at all, I just stumbled upon this place. I read, read and read. I read a lot. And I thought, thought and thought. Before, I have indeed noticed some social female privilege, but not really up to the point of insane bullshit that apparently happens. Many articles and discussions have reopened my eyes or confirmed my "sanity". I hate bullshit and I love exposing it, so I'm staying here.

I'm egalitarian, of course. Both men and women deserve equal rights.

I could write a huge wall of text, but I'm not too good with words unfortunately...

2011-06-21T01:40:15+00:00

My dad was the youngest of 9 kids in rural kentucky, all farmers/farmers wives. I grew up working hard like everyone I knew. Everyone was respected for the jobs they did, in the fields, kitchen, gardens, livestock. When I left and went out into the world I treated everyone, men and women, with respect. I may as well have been wearing a sign on my back saying 'i respect women, kick me'. And they did, through 3 marriages. The only thing to this day i cannot figure is how someone can stand up and Court and lie to try to hurt someone who never hurt them, almost for the fun of it. After you see fake tears and lies used to con the Court it just drives the respect for women right out of you.

Halk · 2011-06-20T19:32:37+00:00

I don't like the assumption you are making that anyone who is concerned about mens right is in some way damaged.

radamanthine · 2011-06-20T22:00:10+00:00

I read some pieces from the internet, read the responses to those and figured out that the MRAs

a) experiences matched those of mine
b) had more convinving arguments
c) were generally more open towards "politically incorrect", which I am kind of an addict for.
d) were the underdog. And being the chivalrous knight I was, it was time to defend the weaker.

Then started reading up stuff. Including a lot of feminist literature. I'm pretty convinced I know more about feminism and feministic thought than 95% of feminist-claiming people I encounter. Great for arguing and convincing people. I read PUA-stuff, which surprisingly improved my sex-life significantly. I encountered some MGTOWs, which made me more acceptable towards my choices, ambitions and life in general. And happier. Overall, getting in has made me a better person.

But ultimately, there is my mother.

After dwelling into MRA, feminism etc, I really started to see her in the right light. My parents are farmers. Hard working and extremely equal partners. There is no chore in our household that was considered gendered jobs. And us kids did our part of really raw, physical and sometimes dangerous jobs as soon as we had the strenght to lift our shovels. The rules were simple: If you wan't someone to do something for you, you had to be able (and prove it) to do yourself.

My mother built the expansions she wanted to our home herself, handles livestock five times as massive as her if needed, was the work-leader on projects, engineered some pretty fantastic contraptions to aid their work and sometimes just for the hell of it, raised 4 wonderful children, is still an amazing chef, loves her husband still after 40 yrs of marriage and quite frankly, does not let anything or anyone to stop her from doing what she wants. She is really the embodiment of "Yes we can." And my father only fears kryptonite.

And when I really see what women really can do and looked around me to see the women of my generation being rendered helpless by the poisonous soap-bubbles of victimhood, patriarchy and the lowest common denominator... I knew the feminism (in the current state at least) was probably more in the root of problems than a solution. My mom never really digged on those issues provoked by people "more important than herself". She just did not give a fuck about anyone saying how she was doing wrong or right by fulfilling her life.

She is probably the only woman I know who really got it all. A fantastic family with plenty of time with, a career she loves, a husband for life, in it's own way a perfect (muscular, well preserved and working) body constantly trained by 40 years of hard physical work, an enterpreneurial life without bosses and plenty of time to develop herself in her own terms. During these years, she has studied three other professions as a gardener, engineer and as a fairly successful artist.

And I'm sad, angry even... That despite all the resources, work and research on gender issues, the best our lady-movement seems to be able to produce is either some narcistic princesses or "emancipated" whiners who are caged by their own imagined glass ceilings and embraced victimhoods. Women really can! Despite what feminists say!

tl:dr; My mom can kick your puny ass.

ExpendableOne · 2011-06-20T20:33:30+00:00

I started off as a feminist and got gradually more and more fed up with the lack of support for men that was going on and the sheer amount of sexism, misandry and hypocrisy from women in general, from places like /r/twoXchromosones(something which kind of came as a shock to me then since I still had this foolish bias that they would somehow be less sexist or more open to a genuine concept of equality than men would) and from feminism(which was also hard at work trying to defend or encourage the sexism these women were perpetuating). This, coupled with the realization that this premise of women having been exclusively oppressed by men throughout history(which had been fed to me by a feminist society my entire life) was actually pretty much a lie and really not indicative of the whole picture(at all), kind of did it for me.

The concept of equality is something that I've always been passionate about but, when I became aware how incredibly, or systematically, biased against men society really was and how little was actually being done about it, that made me want to be a bit more vocal about it.

girlwriteswhat · 2011-06-21T01:09:20+00:00

Unlike some here, I was never a feminist. I mean, it may seem weird considering my grandmother (born in 1909) was a career woman, and my mom was just as likely to spend her day shovelling gravel or painting the siding as baking cookies. I'm masculine enough that every single man I've dated or had a relationship with has told me, "Wow, I've never been okay farting in front of a woman this soon before!" I grew up buttering floor tiles and digging the right wrench out of the toolbox for my dad, when I wasn't playing with legos (the space-lego set I got for Christmas when I was 9 was the best present ever--over $100 in 1979. That's how much my parents loved me).

I grew up knowing I could be anything--I was great at math and physics (though I've forgotten it all by now), and both my English profs told me I'd be wasting my life if I didn't write--and felt completely at home when I'd spend time in the garage with my dad.

I've been the victim of an attempted rape, and dealt with sexual harassment on the job. I'm divorced and haven't received a dime of child support for over two years--after a 15 year marriage, one where he wanted kids as much as I did. A good friend of mine was recently stuck in an abusive marriage in the States, and two weeks before she faced deportation I drove 26 hours to go get her and bring her home.

It's not that I'm traditional, and it's not that I haven't had my dealings with men who were pieces of shit.

But feminism? It always kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. The men I've dated since my marriage ended have been fucked over. Well and truly. And the older I get, the older they get, and the more damaged by their histories they seem to be. Even my current (and hopefully permanent) who's 12 years younger than I am has been fucked over by a system that treats him as less than human.

To be honest, I haven't received any child support because I refuse to bring the long, strong arm of the law between my kids and their dad. I took the shaft, but I certainly didn't have to. And if I hadn't, a man would be in jail right now, for no crime other than that he's a bit of a fuck-up.

And when I think about that--how I had a choice as to whether I'd get fucked over, and that I was all that stood in the way of him being royally fucked over...that's some scary shit.

And I think of my grandmother--raised in rural poverty, lived through the dirty 30s, and still managed to become postmistress of a small city, manager of a general store, and balance that with a family, it just makes women who whinge about how oppressed they are right now seem ridiculous. Women in the west have never had it so good--better than any women anywhere at any point in history--yet they just seem to get angrier. It doesn't make sense.

imbecile · 2011-06-21T00:14:42+00:00

Don't know if I'm an activist. All I do is talk to people occasionally, and usually online. I don't really have any vested personal interest in any of the main men's rights concerns.

But pages like this are the only places where I don't see this majorly warped representation of gender that is so common and endorsed in mainstream culture but is so disconnected with how I see and experience gender reality.

I guess that's the main reason I care: I abhor hypocrisy. It makes me physically cringe. And the hypocrisy of gender relations is probably the one I witness the most on a daily basis.

pcarvious · 2011-06-21T05:05:05+00:00

I'm just gonna make a list of events that sort of pushed me towards the MRM. There's a lot more to these and I'm over simplifying a lot. The stories here are not easy ones to bring up and bring out.

These are in rough chronological order. I'm gonna include a rough age range too so.

5-10

*Was abused by grandmother. Physically and emotionally 11-16

*Best friend committed suicide

*His father was arrested and jailed for child support

*His mother made numerous false allegations to keep his little sister

16-21

*Accused by a highly religious father of misconduct with two students I was tutoring. No charges filed

*Found the r/mensrights subreddit and started to see what the hell was happening.

*Sought psychological help. None was tendered.

royboh · 2011-06-21T05:49:08+00:00

This is the article that got me started.

ravia · 2011-06-20T19:55:59+00:00

I'm not a "men's rights activist" as such, but I'm interested in it. I am generally interested in nonviolence and a kind of philosophy. I look at what i call "second stage violence", which is different from "first stage violence", which is a more obvious kind of violence. Like, classic S1 violence would be a brutal prison like Attica, an S2 would be a more "up to date prison" that sops up all that mess with "better" institutional practices, yet...oddly enough may, by virtue of that very "improvement" can lead to just as much brutality, or potentially even more. Another simple example: Saddam just up and invades Kuwait. That's bad, but a S2 was to follow, something few remember: the sanctions placed on Iraq in the 90's, as a kind of "better action than invading", further "improved" in the "Food for Oil" program. Yet...these actions were in fact the most lethal thing that has happened in the region altogether, taking the lives of 1.5 million of the most vulnerable, children under 5 and the elderly. Couched in more "diplomatic" terms, these brutal actions (akin to starving Hitler for keeping Jews in the Ghetto to the point of Hitler's then starving everyone in the Ghetto) turned out to be the most brutal thing of all.

In terms of men's rights, there appear to be a lot of draconian laws at an S2 level in response to responses to the famous (and important) S1 violences towards, largely, women. Yet these S2 reactions do have the same potential to be uniquely and excessively violent.

mensrightactivist · 2011-06-21T00:58:07+00:00

Does there need to be a reason besides justice? I started as a humanist then realized that they are just pawns. They spread feminist ideas without being labelled as such.

Aavagadrro · 2011-06-21T02:35:03+00:00

Well I got fucked by the state on behalf of an abusive lying bitch that did everything wrong in our marriage and took my kids from me. I had no legal recourse at all through this whole thing. I chalked the false rape allegation against me to a crazy drunk bitch who thought she could get anything she wanted by fucking me. Turns out, you have to get me to marry you so you can have everything I have.

DitkasMoustache · 2011-06-21T04:02:17+00:00

My divorce and ensuing custody battle. I joke that there's nothing special about the two except that they happened to me, and if I'm very honest I have done exceptionally well in the results from both. But from the moment I first dialed 9-1-1 after she assaulted me, through the court awarding her a temporary DVCPO, to my being granted temporary custody, through the actual divorce litigation, I have been acutely aware of just how much of a liability it is to have been born penised. The dialogue and info here is perfectly suited to my post-divorce philosophy of unfucking my mentality and philosophy, so I got hooked.

ZQMFGB · 2011-06-21T05:27:58+00:00

It was during my undergrad, being exposed to women who spoke openly and plainly about their sexism as if it were something to be proud of. The day I was told by a very well to do tenured professor that I held a superior position in society to her (despite her exponentially higher net worth, position of authority and trust in the community, ownership of property and extensive education) due to my gender was the day I realized there were gender issues that needed addressing beyond the ones I'd had endlessly impressed upon me in high school.

disposable_human · 2011-06-20T22:27:29+00:00

So you're asking for people to give an emotional reason they're MRs rather than just press the issues? No.

radamanthine · 2011-06-21T01:32:52+00:00

I'm not implying that all MRAs are damaged in some way.

Riiight.

Feckless · 2011-06-21T09:06:49+00:00

Random chance, nothing bad happened to me, read a wiki article on men's rights and thought "Fuck yeah!"

2011-06-21T09:36:10+00:00

Kinda random chance.

I came across a link to Glenn Sacks' site, and stuck around. I've drifted around a few different MR sites.

misterdoctorproff · 2011-06-21T13:37:25+00:00

I think it all started when I was about 7 or 8 and I asked my VERY feminist 2nd grade teacher "Why does TV always say mean things about men?" and was answered with "because men are mean people, deary."

radamanthine · 2011-06-20T21:57:06+00:00

shitpost.

Godspiral · 2011-06-21T03:05:15+00:00

Its mostly the corrupt criminal persecution of men on domestic and sexual violence in liberal countries. That poor and baseless complaints are not challenged aggressively for potentially malicious acts.

That makes relationships with a woman with kids completely impossible (Even if happy relationship, You will be vilified after breakup, and kids will explain delinquency (avoid accountability) to psycho mom as past abuse that helps ex-wife get what she wants to hear). It makes relationships with women with no kids, weary. Biased law and interpretation on separations means that its irrational to enter a long term relationship with someone who brings less financially than you do in a relationship, and bearing children without the ability and willingness to win custody after separation is another deep financial and parental-alienation risk.

tldr; The social legal framework is destructive to relationships and families. You can't enter safe relationships. Only the legally uninformed do.

Title	Why are you an MRA?
Author	radamanthine
Upvotes	22
Comments	74
Date	June 20, 2011 7:29 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/i4kwk/why_are_you_an_mra/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-are-you-an-mra.1038394 https://theredarchive.com/post/1038394

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