A question from a short guy

flamingoespink · 2020-03-12T06:28:26+00:00

If height is genuinely hurting your relationships you may be a LVM projecting height insecurities on others, or you are going after LVW. Being high value is specifically about character. Women aren't automatically low value because of a genetic feature and neither are you. I think your question is more about attraction.

Also, "I expect" when directed at women who you do not know, is not a great starting point. You can expect that no one here owes you an explanation for anything.

Nightingale1820 · 2020-03-12T06:12:30+00:00

I dated a man in the past who was short and annoying, he didn’t want me to wear heels.

My wonderful husband is 1 inch shorter than me (and I very good shape) and we get along amazing.

GlowInTheDarkSpaces · 2020-03-12T07:18:05+00:00

I’m a bit tall for a woman, short men never ask me out. I did meet a guy on-line that lied about his height. When we met in person he came early and sat on a barstool so I wouldn’t notice. It was pretty weird when he finally stood up and it was obvious that he had lied and covered it up. The dishonesty wasn’t attractive to me.

TheOGJammies · 2020-03-12T05:57:55+00:00

Not every woman on FDS has a problem with dating short guys. We just don’t standard shame the ones that do so you’ll see both kinds of comments.

And some of us have dated shorter guys and had bad experiences due to their massive insecurities over their height. Being short doesn’t automatically make you low value at all, it’s just a physical preference for some women.

Yianna_F · 2020-03-12T10:54:10+00:00

Thank you for your question and taking the time to explain your experience. :-)

Being short does not make a man a LVM! It's the being insecure, obsessed, angry and defensive about being short that indicates a LVM. These are traits that show an individual of low value. A woman with such traits would, too, be low value. FDS is clear about both and does not discriminate.

We are talking about height preferences which in many occasions become hard-core standards due to both personal experience and collective experience, meaning the experiences that women, as a group have mostly or generally had and lived through their lives.

For example, I'm 5,9', what you'd call tall-ish for a woman. I have never had any issues with my height myself. I have never had a man taller than about 2 inches than me ever having any issues; if they did, they never expressed them to me anyway. So, men taller than me, have been comfortable with both their height and mine and have never caused any height-related issues.

With men not as tall as me however, or men slightly taller than me, I have had a number of incidents. I was 5.7 by age 9, and it was the boys that were not as tall as I was that tried to bully me when I was little. Then, it was the not as tall teenagers that felt insecure about their height that tried to do the same. And since then, it has been the men not tall as me that have seen my height as an issue again.

They have tried to control my outfits and footwear; the way we sit and pose when taking pictures in an outing, excursion or a wedding; my professional attire and public image. They have felt the need to talk about my height, telling me that I'm too tall for a normal guy to consider me as I'd appear to be too masculine and men only look for feminine women...telling me that at least I'm feminine and that my good looks and long hair balance this out etc! I've even had men telling me that I'm perfect for them because as short men they want tall children, and that makes my height perfect for that! I mean...you get the picture obviously and how all these views, behaviours and assumptions are unhealthy, toxic, manipulative and simply wrong.

As you can see, it is these men that have tried to sensure and control me for something that is beyond my control. Personally, I now avoid dating men that are shorter than me, not because of their "short height" but because of their "short personality". I refuse to go down that road or rather, to be led down that road by men.

If men were more comfortable in their bodies and height and did not try to project their insecurities upon us, women would not be as strict with their selection criteria and standards. From my experience, and from what I've seen with and heard from others, I've reached the conclusion that relationships work best when the man is taller that the woman due to all the above mentioned reasons.

Women have to vet and tend to reject short men because of these concerns.They've seen it all before and are no longer willing to go down that road. They'd rather date someone with less (less obvious at least from a first look) insecurities, complexes, projections, anger and control issues etc.

These are some of the reasons why you see height being mentioned frequently in conversations here. I don't believe you are lying, as height does come up often here and many are strict and unapologetic about it. I do believe that you're seeing the issue from a different perspective and that the conversations are not always elaborate enough to get to the root of the problem and explain how these views and standards that women have came about. Even when women offer their lives experiences, men tend to disregard them of view the issue as not as important to them because in their eyes it is not a problem.

In reality, I haven't come across a taller woman-shorter man couple where the guy was comfortable in his skin and didn't see his height as an issue that had not have a successful and long term relationship or marriage. Such men do not see their height as a weakness vs strength but rather as a less strong/advantageous point. They don't try to control their partners appearance, prevent her from wearing heels, or tell her to not dress well and put make up on. In essense, they don't allow their height to control them or affect their relationship or let their own insecurities bleed into the relationship. They work on themselves and their height is simply not a priority.

Height preferences are subjective and more complex to say the least. My "tall" or "short" won't be the same as for a 5,2' woman for whom your 5,6' would be tall and could potentialy be a desirable height difference.

It's good that you try to raise the topic within your circle and friends. I am happy to hear that your height does not impact the question you posed here and that it's not rooted in insecurity or a slight against women with a preference for tall men. But please understand that this is not the case for most men of a certain less advantageous height and certainly not the experience that most women have with said men.

FDS is a dating strategy for women based on what works through women's lived experience. Due to the negative experiences women have experienced from men with various height-related issues, a big number of them tend to advice against dating short men for a good reason. It's about what is beneficial to us, as women. Women have spoken and the majority say that short men do not make good partners and you should therefore only date tall ones (see comment about subjectively).

It's also worth mentioning that preference isn't the same as attraction but they can inform each other. In the same way some people are not attracted to xyz physical or character trait, there are women who are not attracted to short men. That's not something you can negotiate or change really. They are attracted to what they are attracted to, the same way men are.

TLDR: Women don't have as much issue with "short" as they have with "short personality or mentality". That is what makes a LVM, his character, not his height, a trait he has no control over.

So, FDS women automatically judge short men mentality and character as low value and thus advises against dating short men due to their behaviours and insecurities. Short men are not low value people, just low value partners to a number of women mostly because they do not bring any value of character in the relationship.

Suggestion: Try to view the issue from a woman's perspective which have had mostly negative interactions with short(er) men. From what you're saying, you've had many successful relationships with women, so your height was not an issue for them. For some others however, it might be an issue or concern. I'd say you focus on those women rather than women in FDS or with a similar mindset. If your point isn't getting across in conversations with people and you're being gaslit into oblivion, both by women and men, perhaps you might want to consider if there's something else at play here. For instance, it's not a good conversation starter; or it's a seen as a highly controversial topic and people would rather shut down such conversations; or people don't see the point in engaging in such a conversation with you since height doesn't seem to be an issue with your relationships; or it's a topic you bring up frequebtly etc.

If I had to sum it up in a sentence, for those asking about women not liking men being short, I'd say "It's not your height, it's you that's the problem in most cases".

I know this was a long post, but men do bring up height often. Your question seemed genuine and I think it was a good opportunity to clear some things up.

It would be interesting to see how the answers you've received here have helped you gain further insight into this matter.

Thank you again for your question!

Liz_Lemondrop · 2020-03-12T10:54:19+00:00

My thoughts are this: most women don't care much as long as they're not taller than the man. In fact, some women don't even care if they ARE taller. I can think of a handful of my girlfriends who are with guys that are shorter than they are, but the guy never uses it as an excuse or a reason to be angry or ashamed, even though I see that attitude a lot among guys "online". I think the bigger turn-off than the height is the mentality of "nobody will find me attractive because I'm short". Fuck that, own it, and work on your confidence. There's no amount of height that can make up for a lack of security in yourself. My guy friends with taller girlfriends actually like to point it out and brag about it.

OBVIOUSLY height is ideal. For whatever biological reason, women tend to go for taller guys. I'm not arguing that isn't true. But I am saying, for the lion's share of women, height is just one of many variables. I've dated guys my height or shorter who had interesting personalities, and I've dated very tall dudes whose entire personality was being tall (which gets boring quick).

2020-03-12T17:04:54+00:00

Hey bud! I'm a 5"2 women and spent years of my life only dating under the 6" crowd because I like being at even height with my partner. Not everyone is against short men, it might just feel that way because it's a type of cultural meme.

I don't consider short men automatically LVM. I consider men who don't put effort into improving their life LVM. I consider men who don't put effort into their relationships LVM. Neither of those parameters take into account height.

You have to keep in mind that there will be women on FDS who are your height or taller. Generally, men don't like dating women taller than them (there are outliers). You're going to hear from these women without knowing their height.

I have a friend who's 5"6 and she was seeing a man shorter than her. She was really into him, but the height was a deal breaker to him. If this happens enough, don't you think it would be wise for that woman to limit her dating time to people she knows definitely won't have this problem? It's just good time economy.

There are also the lived experiences of women dating men who have a chip on their shoulder about height. FDS is a space where they can vent that reality. Because we don't standards-shame on FDS, you might think that everyone buys in to that standard. Every member of FDS is an individual with different standards. Just because one standard is voiced does not mean it's universally adopted.

My advice? Don't dwell on the people who are self-filtering from your dating pool. I know that's not easy. I don't want you to feel like I'm gaslighting you here. I admit there is a vocal prejudice against short men. You're not going to change that.

There are plenty of women who will date you. I would recommend focusing on those women instead of internalizing the anti-short man rhetoric. If you work on being a good potential partner to the women open to you, you might find yourself without time to think about the audience who isn't interested.

ghygdryhchmmmmjj · 2020-03-12T12:45:14+00:00

Height does NOT at all make you low value by fds standards. It just doesn't. High value has to do with your character. Period. If anyone says otherwise their not understanding. People bring up height here because we encourage each other to look for a person we feel compatible with. Those who care about height bring it up, those who dont care about it dont bring up. For me fitness is really important. So I bring it up, but fitness in a man has NOTHING TO DO WITH high value or low value. That's just a compatability thing. I like to work out all the time so I'm looking for some one else who does too! Compatibility is not the same thing as high value versus low value.

ny-lady · 2020-03-12T10:23:18+00:00

LV is about behavior not your height for most of us. Height is a preference thing.

Many that have dated shorter men their behavior was a factor not the height. Like his insecurity about it and its projected in the relationship/other areas of his life.

You cant take Some posts as an actual whole on what we all think or like its some 'FDS standard'.

People who shame to be mean are projecting something within themselves.

spacebubbletea · 2020-03-12T10:58:51+00:00

You are not low value only because you are short. I know a HVM who has a 6.1 gf and they make an awesome couple with amazing energy. But he respects her, reveres her, and truly love that woman. „Women hate me because I’m short” is an excuse. Think of how you treat women. How you view them.

ManchurianCantaloupe · 2020-03-12T12:12:41+00:00

This sub has existed for less than a day and already we've got multiple questions whining about how we allegedly have it out for short guys.

If you don't know the posts I am referring to they are easy to find if you search short (assuming they haven't been deleted) to show I am not lying.

It's not my job to prove your point for you. You can provide examples, or I reject the premise of your question.

In almost every post on the topic of short men I have seen (which is most of them, given I'm an FDS mod), the amount of women who are indifferent or actually prefer short men is much higher than those who want tall men.

I am one of those women who prefer men under 5'9". I'm tall for a woman, though not tall in general. A massive percentage of short men won't date me because they feel it's "emasculating" if I'm taller than them in heels. I'm totally fine with it. Insecurity is super unattractive. I wouldn't want to date any of those men anyway.

If short men are allowed to have preferences, why aren't women?

timetofliptables · 2020-03-12T07:57:04+00:00

I don’t think you’re lying about the posts, and I even went back and read a few, BUT that’s just not how they come across to me. Though I can see how you would feel that way.

I think the posts that are rubbing you the wrong way are using the descriptor “short” and a condensed way to say (as the other comments explained) short + insecure and/ or a dick about it. Some posts are even specifically talking about self proclaimed “shortcels.”

Granted lots of women do set a standard of only dating taller men. For me personally I don’t care. The best relationship I ever had was with a man about my height and he was awesome. Similar to you it was a moving away sort of situation.

Devily666 · 2020-03-12T09:04:51+00:00

That's such a silly question. "Why do hot people get better treatment in life? Personality should win! "

People with desirable traits get better treatment, we all know this. Absolutely pointless obsessing over one tiny characteristic of yours that isn't perfect 🤷

2020-03-12T18:44:35+00:00

I don't think that. The hottest guy I ever dated was 5'5 and I'm a few inches taller and just had only experienced dating men who were taller than me (I live in an area where people are generally taller). I just find it to be a huge red flag when men are complaining on their profile or in their life about women having preferences. I'm not the beauty ideal either and I don't expect that, but if guys are really negative about it it can get scary.

Ms_Tilly · 2020-03-12T12:10:32+00:00

I haven't seen any extreme "short shaming" of regular men on FDS and I've been here awhile. A few posters may make a joke, but I don't see this as a regular thing on the sub.

As long as the guy is a few inches taller than me, I don't care. I'm 5'1". But he has to be relatively fit. I'm not attracted to "dad bods". Most men that have the courage to ask me out are men over 5'11", so 🤷🏻‍♀️

Consider_the_Horses · 2020-03-12T10:55:00+00:00

A lot of it might be "counter-trolling" because women are used to getting massively shamed and attacked (sometimes even physically) if they ever dare to voice any kind of standard.

Men seem to define love as "When a woman gives everything and asks for nothing in return."

So even voicing ANY kind of standard or preference can get men (and their misogynistic handmaidens) extremely angry. And male anger can easily become dangerous for women.

At the same time, women are criticized ruthlessly even for minor flaws, told that they "hit the wall" once they are 25 and so on.

So I think you gotta keep this environment in mind: an environment, in which it might become literally dangerous for women to voice ANY kind of standard or preference - while simultaneously being held to extreme standards even supermodels can only reach with the help of massive photoshop.

And I think in that environment, there's just sometimes countertrolling to the point where women say that short men can just fuck off and die, and where we just find it hilarious to see men foam over women talking size + height": FEMINISM HAS DESTROYED WESTERN CIVILIZATION BECAUSE WOMEN NOW PREFER CHAD OVER SHORT EINSTEIN-GENIUSES LIKE ME!", and so on...

ivy176 · 2020-03-12T07:50:29+00:00

Height is completely irrelevant when it comes to being a high value person and a good partner.

Height is only a preference like hair colour, skin tone, type of voice, or whatever.

Tall men can sometimes be viewed as more masculine, but it's not the epitome of testosterone and manliness. You can get tall guys that are like string beans, sooo skinny with barely any muscle mass, or tall but with feminine hips and narrow shoulders, or tall with an unattractive face.

Height is not everything, but some women prefer tall men, just like many men prefer big boobs or an hourglass figure. But ONE single trait in a person doesn't necessarily define their looks unless it was super extreme. But 5'6 is not an incredibly short man, just won't be some women's preference though.

My boyfriend is 5'10 and I wouldn't want to go any shorter, but I used to think I didn't wanna go below 6'2 when I was younger and that changed when I fell in love with a guy who wasn't super tall. I didn't "compromise" on his height (not that he's short at all, but shorter than all my exes), I began to prefer his height. Hugs are easier and sex positions work better. I don't miss being someone's chest height. I don't really know why I wanted really tall guys in the past, just some weird preconceived notion I had.

surviveIIthrive · 2020-03-12T12:50:35+00:00

Women are allowed NOT to be attracted to you for any reason. I’m not sure why this needs to be explained to you. And no one has said short men are inherently low value. You made that up to strengthen your self-pitying argument. You want to make FDS seem unreasonable. This is a bad faith question. I suppose you’re going to tell us that you like all women in all shapes and sizes and the only thing that matters to you is character??

I went on a date with a short dude a while back and at a certain point I noticed his hands. They were so small! Like a boy’s hands. Lol. It really turned me off. I like nice, big manly hands and broad shoulders on a man. You could have a potbelly and I’d be OK but small hands turn me off. See? It’s all subjective. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and try to win women over in other ways!

radical__daphne · 2020-03-12T14:41:19+00:00

If you're 5'6 don't be trying to date women who are also 5'6. Maybe try someone who is 5'.

As the other commenter said your question isn't about being high value or low value, it's about attraction. Some women simply aren't going to be attracted to you because of your height. That's life. There is still a whole world of women out there who won't have a problem with it. This is how literally everyone has to learn to exist in the world and accept their life and their body as it is. There will always be people who aren't attracted to you. Just like there will always be people who are. Focus on being the best partner you can be because that is really what's important.

RobotAmerican · 2020-03-12T22:16:03+00:00

Shorter men won't date taller women, so it's not like women have a choice in the matter.

TempDetect · 2020-03-13T01:26:20+00:00

The assumption that you've already lost with all women because you're short is unattractive. It's not the height that's the problem.

One of the men to whom I've been most attracted is two inches shorter than me. He was attractive to me because he was confident with himself... and so I was confident with him, too.

Of course, everyone has their physical preferences. Some women are into taller guys, but I honestly don't think that most women IRL are going to shun an attractive shorter man just because he's short.

Edit: Strongly agreed on the "I expect." I'm not here to lie to you, and I interpret that statement as controlling.

postmodernistweasel · 2020-03-12T09:53:18+00:00

Some women are cruel about features a man has no control over like height, baldness or dick size, I don't think this is HV behavior and it's not something I do. But, the vast majority of times a disparaging remark about height comes up it is in response to a man being nasty about women's looks or standards. There's usually a context where the man has graded a woman with numbers, or is demanding some very high expectations in his dating profile, or is slating women in an obnoxious manner for having some perfectly reasonable expectations. So, it's usually a response to point out his arrogance and poor attitude, his sense of entitlement to judge women harshly when he is not 'all that' himself (according to cultural norms).

Im_Vinea · 2020-03-12T11:09:28+00:00

5’6 is short? I-I didn’t know that. I’m 5’2 and a guy I knew was 5’4. His height wasn’t what was unattractive to me. From what I can recall, he was a bit abrasive when he spoke and in his actions. Other “short” men have brought up their insecurity with their height...honestly, I usually don’t notice unless they bring it up.

To answer your question: Perhaps (some) short men act out in an aggressive manner to compensate or constantly seek validation about their height to the point where it’s off putting and leaves many women wary of encountering and dating “short” men. Idk tho (not speaking on behalf of all women or FDS)

TERFSareawesome · 2020-03-12T11:45:07+00:00

I think women generally find tallness in men attractive because of sexual dimorphism. Just like men are attracted, generally speaking, to large breasts, an hourglass figure, whatever else. Height is just one of those major things that ping for women. Of course you will find plenty of women that are fine with dating a shorter guy, just like there are plenty of guys that don't care about an hourglass figure. But speaking for most women it's just a turn on for us, I think because one of the major things we want from men is the ability to physically protect us, and height is a major advantage in this region, so it makes us feel safe.

So yeah, it's just a preference women have. I know there are plenty of girls who will date shorter guys and dont really think too much about height either way. Actually, in my experience, many of the tall women dont care and will date shorter than themselves- maybe they dont feel as vulnerable or something. And then you have women who care and have a strong preference, almost always towards tallness. Generally speaking though, tallness is considered a positive trait for men to have. But there are plenty of men who are really attractive and get lots of women who arent tall

Title	A question from a short guy
Author	Roadcase27
Upvotes	19
Comments	37
Date	March 12, 2020 5:00 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askFDS
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/AskFDS/comments/fhb4gq/a_question_from_a_short_guy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askFDS/a-question-from-a-short-guy.1068821 https://theredarchive.com/post/1068821

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