Bahahaha amezing | PussyPassDenied

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A woman can post lies about a man raping her that leads to him being harassed and then committing suicide over it and she can keep her account.

Clown world mate 🤡

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I'd recommend listening to Tim pool and joe Rogan confront Vijaya gadde, twitter's global lead for legal policy, and Jack Dorsey, the founder of Twitter, on twitter's facilitation of leftist echo chambers, targeted bias against conservatives, and their "progressive" hypocrisy.

Certain people on the left have tweeted blatant calls for violence and/or death towards conservatives and they are still not banned. Conversely, a mother posted a single picture of her and Donald trump together and her account was suspended within an hour. They bring up many more examples and topics ranging from veganism, trans people, political groups, etc.. all the Twitter execs can say is "we realize we create and sustain echo chambers, thank you for your feedback, we're always trying to better our system." Twitter hasn't changed their policy at all since that conversation.

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Can you explain the difference between the absolute power and control Hitler had versus the absolute power and control Stalin had? Neither is acceptable to Liberals, which is what the modern definition of the american left is. Either way, it's undeniable that the modern american right is far more violent and far more likely to commit a terrorist attack.

I could keep going, but that's more then enough.

[–]kleejd1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

1) I won’t argue that far-right extremism is more dangerous in the U.S. That’s not really relevant, anyway.

2) I don’t know where you gathered that absolute power is a right wing concept. It can occur in both right wing and left wing political spheres. That being said, differences between Hitler’s absolute power and Stalin’s absolute power manifest in the motivations of both leaders. Hitler wanted to create a pure, Aryan ethnostate where his party would have tight control over everything in order to preserve the establishment. Stalin and his party had distinctly economic goals, namely the creation of a classless society where all operations are controlled by the government (deceptively “the public”) so as to avoid economic imbalance and chaos.

So Stalin ran a communist dictatorship, communism being an extreme version of socialism, a very “left” ideology. There is a global notion of “left” and “right” that allows for great variation in expression from country to country. Consequently, you bringing up how there is contrast between American liberalism and communism doesn’t change the fact that Stalin’s regime was left wing. I mean, Republicans aren’t remotely close to Nazis but Nazis were nonetheless right of center. Simply put, the left/right spectrum is just that with each side of the spectrum featuring a wide variety of ideas that when juxtaposed seem totally unrelated.

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[–]kleejd3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I’m not a Republican, but I will say that most far-right groups don’t call themselves Republicans just like most far-left groups don’t call themselves Democrats. You can’t blame your every day Republican for, say, what happened at Charleston when all they want is lower taxes, less government intervention, etc. You’re basically blaming this dude for far-right extremism when his Republican opinions have nothing to do with that lunacy, just like I assume yours aren’t responsible for Antifa or some other left-wing terrorist group.

I should also note that far-right extremism is more prevalent in the U.S. than left-wing terrorism, but that wasn’t always the case, even recently. It wouldn’t have been valid to hate on all Democrats back in the 70’s for all the communist groups running around and it ain’t valid to blame Republican individuals for all the nationalist groups of today.

I’m saying this because the animosity between groups is creating more and more blind partisanship. I think if relations were more amicable, there wouldn’t be as many Republicans blindly denying science. Likewise, if right wingers can drop all the “snowflake” nonsense, we might see a decrease in stupid SJW bullshit on the internet.

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Yeah! Rise up against kids with leukemia!

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So the trans people and black people are in charge? Your overused edgy quote doesn't belong here.

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You can't tell by the male body with male arms on the left?

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The point isn't that they made themselves look better in the drawing. The point is that these three women* depicted themselves unrealistically while complaining about unrealistic depictions of women.

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[+]ashchild_ -17 points-16 points-15 points 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, and I've ingested enough of thunderf00t's bullshit to have vomited it all up and realize how stupid most of it is. I used to love him as an edgy teen.

Here's a pro-tip, when he plays two clips back to back to make them look like they contradict, he's being implicitly dishonest by removing the context of both videos.

You know that clip he loves to use of Sarkeesian going, "It's all sexist, it's all racist, and you have to point it all out"? In context, shes literally talking about how annoying she realizes she was when she was first started learning about topics like intersectionality, because it really opens your eyes to all the things you thought were okay, and can now see hurt people that have different life experience than you do.

For fucks sake, I've seen him make a point he thinks contradicts hers, when he's literally making the same point she is.

The entire skeptic community on YouTube is just good at sounding smart, there's actually very little substance.

[–]SirkovTheWanderer11 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't watch Thunderf00t and haven't for 7 years, not since my own edgy teenage atheist days. I don't watch any of the people who make money on youtube by "reporting" controversies and more than likely drumming up some of their own.

Which is completely besides the point, as I didn't ask about thunderf00t.

Anita has 100% said that entertainment media paints unrealistic depictions of women. While stating that the unrealistic depictions of men in games and even on romance novels that specifically market to women are a "power fantasy," blaming men for the depictions of both women and men in entertainment.

I would be very interested in a non-sensationalized clip of her supposedly talking about how annoying she was. Both because if she's evolved and recognizes she went about things in the wrong way in the beginning, that would be amazing and I'm not 100% sure I understand your minor summary of it. Is she saying she recognizes that the people she's saying are responsible for the "tropes" are people too, not some boogeyman conjured up to keep her, a middle-upper class white woman aka one of the most free groups of people in the world, oppressed.

[–]ashchild_-10 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You've totally missed the point if you think she thinks game developers are some sort of boogeyman. You're still sipping the hate poison. Why do I get the sense that you watch people like Dave Rubin or The Lobster King and don't see them as outrage merchants despite the fact that they're just thundert00l with better production/oration.

She never said or thought that, and you could only think she did if you never actually listened to her. One of her main points, from the beginning, is about how media has subtle influences on how people see the world. It's not about good guys and bad guys, that's the reductivist take of reactionary YouTube.

She's criticizing the tropes themselves, not the developers. And guess what, the tropes are kinda fucked up. Just because someone has it better than others, doesn't mean that they're not allowed to fight for their own betterment. The whole point of intersectional study is to breed solidarity between different groups so they can fight for eachother.

Though, as someone inside the games industry, I can assure you there are some real scumbags in positions of power. And yeah, most of the people who want to put in the problematic elements are men.

[–]Versaiteis11 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ashchild_-6 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I am very intentionally focusing on the media they consume, in a discussion about Anita Sarkeesian--who's points are largely about the ways media can cause us to experience unconscious bias.

And in a world full of deterministic physics, where all of our cognitive processes seem to correlate to underlying physical processes, the ideas of agency and freewill start to look really illusory. We're beings designed to take in and process sense data. If all of that sense data comes from sources who more or less agree with eachother, it's actually not that surprising that we find strong correlations between beliefs that don't seem related in abstract.

All we are, is that which we experience or can relate to the experience of others. If you only consume media from people who believe they can use any amount of intelligence as a cudgel against another, where do you think they end up?

[–]Versaiteis3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And in a world full of deterministic physics, where all of our cognitive processes seem to correlate to underlying physical processes, the ideas of agency and freewill start to look really illusory

This is silly because it gets even more meta

Like not only do you learn perspectives that you consume, but you also learn how to consume them, you learn how to formulate conclusions based on the first 2 inputs and you learn how to extend those conclusions even further with all 3 inputs.

And that's just part of the passive side of this. Even if you assert that all physics in the universe is 100% deterministic then what you're left with is a system that's so utterly chaotic that it doesn't even matter. When there are more ways to reach a single conclusion than there are particles in the universe and just as many conclusions then it doesn't really matter

If all of that sense data comes from sources who more or less agree with eachother

You don't and can't know that this is the case for any specific individual. You simply can't enumerate enough data for that person to draw a realistically accurate conclusion. You have to jump at some point.

If you only consume media from people who believe they can use any amount of intelligence as a cudgel against another, where do you think they end up?

I consume a pretty good amount of media that directly contradicts the opinions that I have. Sure those opinions may be founded in the media I've consumed in the past and, even more so, the conversations and discussions I've had with people (shocker). But by this time in my life I'm well enough established in those opinions that I'm actively reaching out to contradict and break them. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't, that's the way it goes. Sticking my head in some echo chamber is just going to be the same old boring arguments that go nowhere.

I sincerely doubt that I'm alone in this.

TL;DR It's way faster and more accurate just to question their conclusions directly and you might even accidentally convince them of something. You need way more time, information about their media consumption habits, their past, and how they internalize them to really understand a person in the same way. Otherwise you're effectively attempting to pigeon hole them in the same way that people do when they try to nail you to a party line.

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[–]ashchild_1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're right, we all need to be better. Realizing that is what made me start self reflecting and realizing that communities like this are just toxic hellholes.

You have to pull yourself out of this bullshit, I can't do that for you.

It's funny that you look at someone clearly trying to provoke me by being dismissive, and you've decided I'm somehow in the wrong for not humoring them. I'm not here to change your mind or anyone else's, believe whatever toxic bullshit you want. I'm here because you fucks hit r/all and I want to make sure random onlookers don't think that its okay to believe blatant bullshit.

The only way you could think that the image in the OP betrays some sort of feminist hypocrisy is if you've never engaged with feminism in good faith. I know, because I used to call chan board home. I used to eat up the rhetoric of so called "anti-feminists."

Besides, I'm fine with Trump winning unless he's running against Sanders. He's helping me pull moderates to the far-left.

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[–]LossIsTruth1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I am holding them to their own standard. If you can simply say that realistic representations aren't necessary then every one of the game developers they have criticized could say the same. Who decides which women should be depicted realistically, and who decides which contexts require realism?

And it is true that Anita has criticized many elements of women's depiction in games (poorly imo), but she also has criticized the lack of body diversity and the age gap between male and female romantic interests. In this image she has made herself look both fitter and younger; I think this is hypocritical.

[+]LowKey-NoPressure -9 points-8 points-7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you can simply say that realistic representations aren't necessary then every one of the game developers they have criticized could say the same.

I will repeat myself: the complaint has less to do with realism, and more about sexualization and infantilization and objectification. It's not that the designs don't adhere to realism. It's that the departure from realism is done for the purposes of objectification (usually sexual). There is absolutely nothing with with Anita and co. pointing that out. That's their job as critics.

Your attempt to call them hypocrites for utilizing a design where a cartoon of themselves makes them look fitter falls flat since Anita's critique is about representation in video game media, not representation in Anita's podcast logo. If anita made a video game where the protagonist was a fit young scantily clad sexy woman, that would make her a hypocrite. Again, and I really can't repeat this enough because it's the core of the issue: it's not a problem that Anita's representation of herself isn't realistic. Just like it's not the problem that the common way women are depicted in videogames is that they aren't realistic. The unrealism isnt the problem. It's that the unrealism manifests itself in sexist ways. You could draw a character that was very unrealistic, but also wasn't sexually objectifying.

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[–]weffwefwef23-16 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No one here hates women.

That's obviously not true. This whole sub is about hating women

That's a projection you've come up with to pretend you can still be right no matter how many times you're proves wrong.

Wow, what a stupid bullshit statement. I'm projecting my hate of women onto you??? Because I hate women? Wow, you are not smart chief. I'm not projecting anything. I am defending the women and I think the people here are unjustly attacking them. What you should have said is that I am making assumptions. But again you're stupid and you have to regurgitate a big word you have seen used too many times on Reddit because you think it makes you sound intelligent.

It's how the grown up world works.

No, it's not. Because grown ups don't freak out about stupid bullshit like you guys are. It's how hate filled bigots work.

This whole sub operates under the guise of posting examples of women behaving badly to criticize that bad person. When in reality it's a forum for angry hate filled men so say ridiculous shit and have other misogynists and bigots tell them they are right. It's your little women hating safe space.

[–]SingingValkyria13 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's obviously not true. This whole sub is about hating women

It isn't. There's nothing indicating that either. It's about pointing out hypocrisy and double standards regarding things we let women do merely for being women. That's the nature of the sub, which is obvious when you read the name. Obviously women suffer from double standards too and are in many ways treated worse for being women, but there are plenty of subs covering that already.

I'm projecting my hate of women onto you???

You sure are projecting something, but I didn't say it was a hate for women. You came up with that on your own. Maybe that is the case after all then?

I'm not projecting anything.

That's a very typical line from people who are projecting something.

I am defending the women

What a brave white knight you are. Isn't that a bit patronizing though? Do you believe women are incapable of defending themselves? How come you correlate any attack on a woman as an attack on all women as a whole? Do you think they're all the same?

What you should have said is that I am making assumptions.

But I did say that. You assume people here hate women, which is based on ignorance and a need to pretend you're something women don't actually need, a savior.

you have to regurgitate a big word you have seen used too many times on Reddit

Which word is the big word? If you believe any of my words were big it might be an issue on your part, not mine

It's how hate filled bigots work.

Calling out hypocrisy is what hate filled bigots do? Maybe that word from earlier really was too big for you, you don't even know what bigot means.

Some rant about misogyny and how anyone who disagrees hate women

Okay champ, it's obvious I can't convince you otherwise since you've already decided to believe that. But just realize that regular adults who actually function in society won't take your word for it unless you prove that somehow. And you won't be able to, because you don't actually believe that to be the case. It's just more convenient for you to find boogeymen to defend women from. Just remember that most people, including women, don't see you in knightly armor, but rather a clown outfit.

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It's not minor because it directly undermines what they claim they advocate for.

It's glaringly obvious that they're either ignorant of this or don't actually care about what the topic they push. Both are reasons to not take them serious on the topic and gives less weight(heh) to the topic.

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What these "critics" are essentially doing is trying to shame men for their fantasies while ignoring the faults in their own.

No, I don't think that's what they're doing at all. The fact that the women aren't real and aren't meant to represent real women doesn't matter. It's still sexually objectifying women.

You can say their criticism doesn't matter or that you don't care. That's fine, no one cares about your opinion either. But it doesn't make their criticism false or unfounded.

Again, they're allowed to criticize media. You're getting butthurt and acting like the things they're saying aren't true--but they are true. The thing is you feel angry because you feel like youre being judged unoworthy for liking the thing that they are accurately describing. You need not. You're allowed to like things. It's just these critics would like to make you aware that some of the things you like portray women in sexualized ways that you yourself compare to softcore pornography, and they think it would be a lot cooler if it didnt.

[–]GABRI3L_1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think you're dead wrong on the fact that they're not real people not mattering. I'm sorry I'm newish to Reddit and don't know how to do that quoting thing (if someone could explain it to me that'd be nice). There are certain animes/hentais/games that portray incest, bestiality, statutory rape etc. The fact that it's not real people with real rights/feelings but rather 2d characters meant to portray a certain personality makes that perfectly acceptable. These "critics" have no place putting judgement on a medium not meant for them while they simultaneously present a sided argument by not taking into consideration counterpoints from mediums they enjoy. They can place judgment on it, but we will continue to ridicule and dismiss them and those who defend them (people like you) for doing so. Stay in your lane.

[–]LowKey-NoPressure0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you do the special quoting thing by putting a > before the paragraph.

I agree that media like movies and anime can be a safe way to explore taboo subjects. But the fact that the material is not 'meant' for them does not shield it from their valid criticisms.

not taking into consideration counterpoints from mediums they enjoy.

What are you referring to here?

I don't buy your argument that critics of media have to 'stay in their lane' and ignore problematic material just because it wasn't made 'for them.' Art is art, open to critique from anyone. And if you put cliched sexist tropes in your art, well, there's nothing wrong with someone pointing that out, whether your art is a fighting game or a harem anime or a hip hop music video or a hollywood movie.

I'm not even sure what there is to ridicule about that. You people are so far up your own asses about Anita Sarkeesian that you don't even acknowledge what she says. There just seems to be a sort of blanket ban on any thought that originates from her and you don't even consider it--or you throw up a weak platitude like 'stay in your lane.'

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[+]Kettlebot1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (41 children) | Copy Link

Because women being portrayed unrealistically in videogames is a male oriented fantasy, whereas them portraying themselves unrealistically is their fantasy.

One of the big reasons women fight against these portrayals is because it impacts their self esteem and make them feel like they have to portray themselves unrealistically to feel comfortable in their own skin. This isn't proving your point, it's proving theirs. The fact that they are getting shit on for this only further goes to show the amount of toxicity that surrounds representation of women.

Why aren't people here also upset that women are literally used as vapid eye candy everywhere they look whole being upset about this image? Because this isn't a about doing the right thing, it's about putting down activism.

I'm not a fan of Anita Sarkeesian. I think she's misleading and self righteous, and has arguably done more harm than good for her cause. This, however, is just embarrassing if anyone takes it as a legitimate counter argument to representation of women in videogames.

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"Society and media has been designed from the ground up to dehumanize certain groups and propagandized to make them hate themselves so they'll buy products from multi-billion dollar industries they've been told will fix it but hey there's NO problem with that and if that affects you in any way you're the weak one!" Lmao you sound like the biggest dipshit on earth.

Women and girls are directly and purposely targeted and brainwashed into hating their own natural features practically from birth from every direction--nobody is immune to that and we are all shaped by our environment and conditioning. To deny the systematic attack on the natural state of human bodies in general and female bodies specifically is to bury your head in the sand and deny reality. When people are making billions in profit off teaching young people they need makeup, plastic surgery, and more, to the point where people are developing mental issues, eating disorders, and more, there is an external problem, not just a fucking internal one. Use your brain, son, God gave it to you for a reason.

[–]tsilokkiAlt2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KaiBishop1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tsilokkiAlt2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

but her not understanding or putting forth the best argument for every feminist stance she adopts does not mean said stances have no inherit merit or value.

You are right, I judge a person by their actual arguments. Her arguments are silly. That being said, just because I think people are responsible for their own self-image, that doesn't mean I don't believe in multi-billion dollar industries attempts to affect our behavior. That's all you going full strawman.

Most video games are not designed to dehumanize anyone. Every example you give me of a "dehumanized" woman, I can show you a male character with the same thing happening. No one cares, because it's fantasy. It's supposed to be silly. We can't police an art form just because its storyline might have a negative effect on a teenage girl. Go after womens magazines and the like, and quit venting your frustrations at strangers on the internet in a malevolent way. It serves no other purpose except to feed your anger, and youll never convince anyone to think.

[–]KaiBishop1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's the point you're missing, neither I nor anybody else is saying we should "police" or restrict these fantasies, we're simply initiating conversations about them. Asking ourselves where these fantasies come from, why they form, what they may say about us, and what they may convey to unintended audiences or third parties are all valid conversations that need to happen. The problem is we say "Hey maybe these fantasies and ideals have unintended consequences or are questionable" and you immediately leap to "Oh my God why do you SJWS WANT TO CENSOR VIDYA GAMES HOLY FUCK!" I'm a fiction writer for fucks sake, I don't encourage censorship or think we should go out of our way to police art, I do think we should be allowed to question and criticize it without you getting your panties in a bunch over censorship that isn't happening and whining about hypocritical feminazis wanting to police art when in reality they're just discussing it or stating their own personal opinions on it.

[–]tsilokkiAlt1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

When I've called you out on strawmans for like two times already and you throw in lines like

and you immediately leap to "Oh my God why do you SJWS WANT TO CENSOR VIDYA GAMES HOLY FUCK!

And

without you getting your panties in a bunch over censorship that isn't happening and whining about hypocritical feminazis wanting to police art

I'm at a point where I have know idea if you're just trolling.

I agree that these are conversations that we should be having. I'm not so sure if that is Anitas intention. I'm simply stating that my take on the issue is that if an art medium conveys something unintentional to the viewer to affect his/her behavior, the problem is not in the art.

I'm curious, if you want to have these conversations that you described, why are you doing so in an ill mannered way? What is the point then?

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[–]KaiBishop 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

"OMG SO ONLY WOMEN'S FANTASIES ARE OKAY?"

That's not what anybody said lmao. If I personally have a fantasy of myself as a powerful beautiful warrior with agency and you personally have a fantasy of me as a sexy sidekick who only exists to please you....you're entitled to that particular fantasy just like I'm entitled to say I don't like the way it frames or depicts me. Especially when women in most of global society are not on the same playing field as men and have their lives dictated by men and male-designed power structures and social norms, obviously some women are going to be annoyed or miffed that even in the fantasy and escapism they turn to they're still being depicted as objects or playthings, the physical beauty is not the problem, the lack of direction and agency in who is telling the story is the problem, and this should not be hard to grasp.

Almost all groups take issue at some point or another at how they are portrayed in the media. Plenty of minority groups have found depictions other people have made of them insulting or exploitative. You don't have to constantly agree with them but women having their own fantasies that make them feel empowered while also being weary of what it means that so many men have fantasies of them being submissive or used as objects or set-dressing is not hypocritical lmao. The difference is who is in control. If you're controlling yourself and have agency that is not at all the same as being a trophy or stereotype in a fantasy designed by a member of a group who has or does pose a direct threat to you or has control over your life.

To sit here and take away from the complex issues and multiple clashing perspectives and societal variables at hand and take away "oh so only women can have fantasies?!" is honestly to admit you're out of your league in the discussion.

If a woman has a fantasy of herself that makes her feel empowered and safe and a man has a fantasy of her that depicts her as an inconsequential sexy thing he owns or a slave beholden to him, its natural for her to raise a fucking eyebrow and be disturbed. People aren't responsible to like the stories you're telling about them especially when said stories betray how you honestly see and feel about them lmao.

TLDR; nobody said only women can have fantasies but women having a fantasy ideal of themselves with freedom and agency vs. your own personal fantasy where they're your sex object are not the same fucking thing and you know it.

[–]fuckitiroastedyou1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]xtralargerooster 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This argument is logically sound, but founded in a worldview that is antithetical to reality. Personal anguish and suffering is not an exclusive experience to any one group of individual. It is indeed a human experience rooted in the natural order of everything. This is a cold ambivalent universe where continuing our survival hinges on the destruction and consumption of other organisms also competing to survive. The innate unfairness of life does not concern itself with our feelings. There has really only ever been one strategy that has ever been effective in coping with this in a healthy manner. Do not become a victim. Acting like everything in the world victimizes you exclusively or inclusively based on some characteristic you have identified yourself around immediately establishes a dichotomy. You not only destroy the ability for others to be sympathetic, but immediately dismiss any traumas they have experienced as well. Demanding others to alter their behavior so that you feel you have the liberties to express yourself inherently impedes upon the others liberties. The acceptable cases for this imposition are as old as time itself, do not take what does not belong to you, do not physically restrict or harm others. But complaining about another person's creative expression of their interests or ideas because of how you interpret them is not a rally against abuse, it's just censorship. Encouraging this behavior reinforces victim mentality, weakens the virtues of personal responsibility, and reduces social empathy. These three women see the "harm" these "tropes" have caused them and want to fix it. That's a noble pursuit worth considering. I would propose that we encourage young girls not to be susceptible to the self created anguish they generate when consuming these materials. And to then help them realize that they are not alone in this particular challenge as all human beings regardless of gender face these issues. In fact the understanding of oneself in relation to society is just one step in a lifelong journey towards self actualization that should not be avoided if you wish to mature very far at all. Censoring the artist to prevent the art that causes one to question themselves not only stunts this maturity, but doesn't even solve the problem because there will always be something in this world that challenges us to adapt the way we perceive ourselves. Developing a sense of self and the ability to develop healthy coping mechanisms for life in fact depends on this exposure and it's unethical, egotistical, and futile to blame or attempt to impede it's creation.

You ask why we don't care that women are used as eye candy. Several reasons, the first is men generally like to see attractive women and it appeals to us. The second is because we assume when it's actual women and not just art her participation was of her own volition. Third, men understand that we are used in a similar manner for similar purposes. Fourth, men are biologically and historically treated as far more disposable than women and this is a responsibility that we accept for ourselves. And finally, healthy men are extending to women the same sense of self dignity and responsibility that they have for themselves to those women in the name of equality that they have demanded.

Take an honest look at the average male in our society in comparison to the average male video game avatar and tell me that the exaggerations and social pressures don't exist for men in a similar fashion as they do for women?

[–]GABRI3L_ 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kettlebot1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't really matter what the intention is, the result is that it seeps into the subconscious of girls and negatively impacts their life without being totally aware of all the consequences. It's not a case of seeing it and being offended, it's a case of recognizing internal strife caused by the objectification. It does loads of harm to the psyche, which is why I'm in this thread making these points, because I've expelled the consequences first-hand.

[–]GABRI3L_4 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KaiBishop0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

As a romance writer I know you don't read much romance because you genuinely describe male romantic leads in female written romance as "servant like" lmao. I will admit there are a few male leads like that, but they're a very very small minority. In reality the books the romance genre is built on and the ones that are still most popular are ones that depict male love interests as dominant, overbearing, controlling, and often even outright rapists. It's only in recent years and thanks to a very conscious push from the readership that the romance genre has shifted toward more kind, sympathetic male love interests who are vulnerable and gentle as opposed to the more common controlling Christian Grey type. Most OG romance, the bodice rippers of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, had their male love interests literally rape the protagonist.

Also, nobody is arguing that characters are projections of reality, they do however tell us something about the ideology, mindset, and personal desires and core values of those whose fantasy is being portrayed, and when a large section of the male populace is openly admitting the kind of woman they want is an ultra-femme big-titted bimbo who exists to please them, obviously women, especially young women who don't have the skepticism and distance not to internalize the wrong messages from this, are going to take away the ideal that this is what men want from them or that this is what is expected of them. And it's hardly as if this depiction of women is limited to video games. Not to mention the difference being that irl women have been forced into subservience and given the short end of the stick and treated as property for thousands of fucking years and in many places still are. Global society as a whole demands beauty and submission from women, why wouldn't they be more prone to trying to fit unrealistic fantasies of men when they're already being societally conditioned to believe their worth stems from attracting and pleasing men to begin with?

To a woman or girl who has accepted that conditioning, those characters are not fantasy, they are instruction manuals.

It's amazing to me (in a very sad way) that you can so drastically misunderstand the point of the person you're debating, go out of your way to ignore the context of the discussion and the varying viewpoints outside of your own, and then say he isn't a rational person. It's irrational to pretend this complex conversation or the tropes being discussed exist in a vacuum isolated from the society we live in or the cultural norms stacked against women. Ignoring the actual position, social expectations, and conditioning placed on women in most of global society in order to dismiss what they're actually saying and ignore why they're raising these questions in the first place because you feel so victimized that a woman could be even slightly uncomfortable with the implication that her worth or value can or should be reduced to how hot a dude finds her.

[–]GABRI3L_2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KaiBishop1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KaiBishop -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Results over intentions. If my intention is to fly but I jump off a building and go SPLAT the original intent ceases to matter. I'm not saying you can't have a sexy female in a video game but saying "Well the original intent!" isn't a sound argument because original intent does not rule out actual effect. You can send a gay person to conversion therapy with the "intent" of helping them, but you're still just ultimately causing them harm and torturing them, You can make a sexy female character because you "intend" for it be good fun for men or draw a large male audience while also unintentionally sending the wrong messages to a female audience, including a young and impressionable one.

When considering your actions it is best to ignore your intent and instead consider the various possible outcomes. There's a reason "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" has become such a common saying.

[–]GABRI3L_2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I lie to myself every day. Got to. Otherwise I'd probably do nothing or end up in a bad spot. Just not to the point of body dysmorphia or insecurity that a virtually created character threatens me.

Honestly as much as women complain about their representation in games, nobody ever mentions guys. You think we could ever hope to look like Dom, Duke Nukem, Solid Snake, Naked Snake, Big Boss, Revolver Ocelot Playing Revolver Ocelot as Revolver Ocelot, Psycho Manits.. Okay sorry went on a genre bend there, but seriously. Never do I look at a game and im like "man I wanna get jacked like Gears of War and I don't think I'll be a man or women won't want me if I'm not.

That honestly never goes through a boys head. What does go through our heads is arguments in the playground about which character would kick another characters ass.

BTW It's Duke Nukem, he'd lay the beating on all other male video game characters... name a more iconic and badass one.

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He based it off their good sides.

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I don't think you'll be shat upon for that, at least from anyone having a modicum of common sense. I don't exactly concur with your view either, but here's the thing. Frankly, SoaD has had 2 great albums. Absolutely frigging brilliant, but just 2. If you add up the truly beautiful tracks that's maybe 10 - different ones for different people based on taste, but that's mostly it. I mean I kinda get why they called it quits. Serj and Daron separately are making great music in general, the way they want. Truly legendary bands from Beatles, Led Zep, AC/DC, IM, to even LP, have had over 20-30 legendary tracks and half a dozen brilliant albums. This puts SoaD in a similar league with Nirvana - who were brilliant, but they gave all they had to give in the 50-odd songs they released, about 20ish of them truly inspirational. A major reason Kurdt couldn't stand his own creation was that they were kind of forced to go on with a commercialised form of their music for the sake of the record label making $$. Even if he hadn't blown his head off, I don't think post 1995 anything of repute would have come from Nirvana and they probably would've split anyhow.

SoB has also released an album that's an absolute banger. I at least rate 3.5/5 all the tracks on it. Let's see where it ends up. SoB has true Daron flowing freely so a lot of it does sound like Hypnotize on roids, not that I am complaining. I do miss Serj's epic manly voice though, ngl.

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That's not the implication at all. The implication is they are hypocrites

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But that is dude on the left. Or is it? 🤔

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It be a he.

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So. A man.

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A transwoman is just a man. Sorry to burst your bubble.

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Imagine caring this much about how somebody you’ve never met lives their life

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I just downvoted your comment.

FAQ

What does this mean?

The amount of karma (points) on your comment and Reddit account has decreased by one.

Why did you do this?

There are several reasons I may deem a comment to be unworthy of positive or neutral karma. These include, but are not limited to:

Rudeness towards other Redditors,

Spreading incorrect information,

Sarcasm not correctly flagged with a /s.

Am I banned from the Reddit?

No - not yet. But you should refrain from making comments like this in the future. Otherwise I will be forced to issue an additional downvote, which may put your commenting and posting privileges in jeopardy.

I don't believe my comment deserved a downvote. Can you un-downvote it?

Sure, mistakes happen. But only in exceedingly rare circumstances will I undo a downvote. If you would like to issue an appeal, shoot me a private message explaining what I got wrong. I tend to respond to Reddit PMs within several minutes. Do note, however, that over 99.9% of downvote appeals are rejected, and yours is likely no exception.

How can I prevent this from happening in the future?

Accept the downvote and move on. But learn from this mistake: your behavior will not be tolerated on Reddit.com. I will continue to issue downvotes until you improve your conduct. Remember: Reddit is privilege, not a right.

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Their avatars on the top look 20 years younger than they actually look.

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And 40 pounds lighter

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Funny you say that because the left one isnt

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Dafuq even is that thing on the left..

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lol u/dasher11

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lmao you guys are still mad at anita sarkeesian?

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This is simply untrue. Sarkeesian speaks on that idea sometimes, but a continuous complaint from her video series is about the sexualization of women in video games.

Like her lingerie is not armor video where she complains about the sexualization of the main character in the commercial for the game Perfect Dark. I don't think its fair to say the main character of the game is reduced to a sexual object, nor is the lady in the commercial. In addition, she poorly tries to draw an equivalence between the sexualization of men and women when men and women find one another sexually attractive for different reasons.

A second example would be her strategic butt coverings video where she complains that cat woman is more sexualized than Batman because you can see her butt while Batman has a cape. She ignores the gameplay changes the cape brings, and that you could play as Nightwing (a male without a cape whose butt you could see) and bat girl (a female with a cape whose butt was covered). That last point completely negating her poor argument.

Sarkeesian argued many times against the sexualization and beautification of women in video games.

[–]ayesmyownaccount 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]catbandage1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

You really shouldn't bother trying to have an actual conversation with anyone on this subreddit unless you are racist, sexist, transphobic and fucking stupid.

[–]foreignuserirl 18 points19 points20 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[+]catbandage1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

You being stupid doesn't make it a slur.

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It is pretty clear that when they say “unrealistic depictions of women” they talk about huge boobs and asses in ridiculous outfits with, for example, personalities that revolve entirely around pleasing the male main character, or being the damsel, or having no personality of their own except to be objectified for male audiences.

This is NOT that, making avatars that represent themselves like this isn’t the fucking same. But of course you guys don’t care about that don’t you?

You just dismiss any and all criticism they have (and these criticisms are feminism 101 and pretty standard, but of course, that means “feminism is cancer”!) and then call them hypocritical because they had the audacity to make avatars of themselves. These avatars clearly don’t show them with huge boobs and asses in clothing to make them appealing to men, do they?

If you don’t see the hypocrisy with your comment, this thread and heck this sub as a whole then God bless you.

[–]OnibabaAzamiOgami2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]camycamera1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What? Yes more women have had more representation in games recently if that’s what you mean by me being “out of touch”, but that is only recently and that doesn’t mean there’s so problems now and we can just wash our hands of it and shut up.

Zelda and Mario for example are the most popular games out there and they still pull the damsel trope over and over. MGSV had Quiet, as another example. And we have some stupid ass pushback counter-culture against better representation of women still... such as the dumbfuck outrage over Tifa’s tits in the FF7 remake “not being seeable enough”, or outrage over women being in BFV.

I am quite aware of video games today thanks, and I enjoy them a lot, yes even the ones that might have problematic representations of women (like Kingdom Come Deliverance which I am playing now), but as Anita says, it is possible to simultaneously enjoy something and be aware and critical of its more problematic issues.

[–]hir0k1 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]tacoman37251 points 6 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

So is this sub just bunch of bots spreading propaganda and farming karma?

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[–]KittensAndPizza17 18 points19 points20 points 6 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

Do you even know what the word incel means? Involuntarily celibate. Like, can not get laid, ever, no hope. I’d love a legit explanation of how this post in any way could relate to this being an incel site. Even if that’s true and this is an incel sub on and incel site, what is the relation between this post and that?

Calling out and making fun of women who specifically complain about companies using unrealistic imagery of women, and unrealistic expectancies of what they should look like, while using a caricature of themselves making them appear much cuter, and much thinner, has nothing to do with whether or not anyone on this site can get laid or not. It’s just some dumb crap that deserves to get called out and laughed at for a few seconds.

If you wanna say it’s fine for women(or anyone) to advocate for double standards when it’s in their favor and condemn double standards when it doesn’t work for them, just go full white knight bitch and say it.

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[–]ayesmyownaccount1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The reason I called you an incel was because you jumped into a long monologue about what being an incel means. I made a joke that apparently you took a hit too seriously. It is okay to not like those qualities in a person, but men do the exact same things. Every single person is capable of doing shitty things. I have had experience being a woman in the past. I am no longer one, but I was one for most of my life. Being a woman is shit. It sucked. I was taken advantage of constantly. My ex boyfriend had exactly all the same qualities you despise in a woman with the added rapist tag. Being a woman is shit. There is no reason to call out a bunch of girls for just having a slightly cuter avatar. Almost everyone with a drawn/cartoonish avatar looks nothing like that.

All in all, I made a joke. Its chill if you don't like that.

[–]KittensAndPizza171 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It’s cool that it’s a joke. I just thought it was baseless regarding the conversation, to insult everyone who thinks it’s lame to be mad about falsely representing yourself while falsely representing yourself. Hypocritical. Sorry your BF was an asshole, I’m well aware guys can be that way too. I’m a dude, born that way, and I’ve dealt with a lot of evil women. I get how it can change your point of view and make you bitter. If I was born a straight woman Im sure I’d have the same issues with men. As a man I know they can be pigs, or pathetic losers, or manipulative. But that’s neither here nor there regarding the post we’re commenting on. These women are (lightheartedly perhaps) doing exactly what they condemn others for. It’s okay to call that out and have fun at them. Doesn’t mean we’re all virgins or can’t get laid. I love women, and I prefer being around them or in a group where they’re present rather than a big group of dudes, but nobody should get a pass for being hypocritical while preaching to others about what’s right and wrong. Be a hypocrite all you want, but don’t push agendas on others while doing what you’re complaining about.

[–]ayesmyownaccount1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]KittensAndPizza17 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not because you didnt go out of your way to insult them, it’s because you did go out of your way to defend them when they’re blatantly being hypocritical.

And yeah, they can be drawn way prettier and thinner than they are, sure. It’s a little hypocritical though to do something like that while simultaneously complaining about women being photoshopped in ads and on social media, creating an unrealistic image for others to compare to. I mean, they talk about women being comfortable with who they are, without needing makeup or diets or exercise or photoshop, yet they themselves are putting out a false image of how they look, even if it is a drawing. It’s a double standard. That’s why the second drawing is so funny, because if they meant what they said, and were really about what they base their platform on, that’s the kind of banner they’d use instead.

Insulting all of us who are pointing that fact out, and crying that the whole site is full of “incels” is out of line, has no bearing in reality, and is borderline white knighting, when what you’re really doing is defending people who are being blatant hypocrites as evidenced in the OP.

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[+]Pizza_Rato1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit this sub is really obsessed with 2015 huh... Alt-right grooming place.

[–]johnchapel1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Can someone simply not like Anita Sarkeesian without being whatever you consider "alt-right", or is everything you don't like alt-right?

[–]chairman_steel -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure, I funded her bullshit because I thought it was an interesting angle of gaming to explore, and I’m still salty she never finished the basic set of episodes she laid out in the Kickstarter. Also at least half of the points she lays out in the episodes she did produce are either dumb interpretations or cherry picked from really stupid games that aren’t representative of gaming as a whole. Once she shifted from mediocre critic into full time professional victim I lost all respect for her. She’s a scam artist, or maybe just incompetent or irresponsible, but not someone to take advice from.

Also I voted for Hillary in 2016 and Obama in 2012 and 2008 and I’d vote for Tulsi today if the Democrats weren’t trying to undermine her. I support abortion rights and can see both sides of the gun debate. Definitively not alt-right.

[+]Pizza_Rato1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

The «anti feminist» movement is where the alt right goes looking for lonely men to join their movement. I would know, i fell for it (in 2015). If you don’t already know about that, then i’m scared how many others are unaware, i thought this was all common internet knowledge by now, but i guess not in subs that specifically target women (many feminists get death threats because they never censor names on this sub).

Title	Bahahaha amezing
Author	lediyica
Upvotes	20605
Comments	666
Date	October 31, 2019 1:55 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PussyPassDenied
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/dpnvo5/bahahaha_amezing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPassDenied/bahahaha-amezing.1069935 https://theredarchive.com/post/1069935

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