Is anyone else getting kind of tired of “men can cry too”?

Algoresball · 2021-11-21T10:48:57+00:00

It's most meaningless response when feminists are asked what male cause they're championing because it doesn't cost them anything. I also think it is so rampant because it folds into the ancient narrative of 'the woman civilizing the man'. It's very conservative in some ways, despite its veneer of progressivism.

I always ask them an after question about what they have done on other causes like circumcision in America and it is literally always zero effort, but they're not against banning it, it's just that the issue is so far down their list they'll never get to it. Switch and swap with literally any issue.

dontpet · 2021-11-21T09:41:35+00:00

I see someone saying that as being just ignorant. Let them eat cake! Let men cry, then that would fix them!

It continues that hyper agency expectation of men. Any problem men have is something they have to overcome themselves.

RockmanXX · 2021-11-21T15:37:27+00:00

It shows how simple they think Men's Emotional issues are. If Men are conditioned their whole lives to never cry then, why would they break the pavlovian conditioning because someone said "it's okay to cry"? No, that boat sailed decades ago when i was a Child. They don't want to address us because that would require saying more than "Its okay to cry", they would have to discuss about the ways society treats men in general and how Society needs to change to accommodate Men's emotional health.

"Men should Cry" only demands a change from Men, NOT Society. Since, I've been conditioned to do the exact opposite my whole life, their rhetoric is tone deaf and insulting. If Women find the mere lack of confidence unattractive then it goes without saying that a Man crying ISN'T attractive and i don't think Feminists want to admit this unpalatable reality, because it makes Women look less than perfect.

SsoulBlade · 2021-11-21T09:03:04+00:00

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SoundProofHead · 2021-11-21T10:50:34+00:00

Thank you!

I'm quite fascinated by this particular topic being a man that cries easily. I agree with your analysis. Words are just words, people need to understand what they imply and just saying something doesn't make it real. Actions speak louder than words and social issues are, for a big part, more demonstration than action.

I tend to think that most people saying that have good intentions and do want men to feel better but many of them are confused and don't really know what it's like to be a man. Men crying seems like a simple thing but it isn't. It's about more than being in touch with your feelings, it's so much more than that.

Like that amazon box for mindfulness, rather than actually creating humane working environments and practices.

Love that. And yes it all feels like an Instagram motivational post with no real substance.

You might be interested in Eva Illouz's work, she writes about these neoliberal self-care tendencies in our society.

thereslcjg2000 · 2021-11-21T19:45:03+00:00

I think some of those statements are well intentioned, but they usually fall flat in my experience for a few reasons:

They often replace one restrictive gender role for another. “Men CAN cry” is something any reasonable person can get behind, “Men SHOULD cry” less so. It seems like the line between the two is often troublingly blurred.
To borrow the foundation of a popular feminist statement, they have a tendency to make the political personal. I agree that male gender roles are overly restrictive, but this restriction is due to societal influence, not simply male stubbornness as is often framed. Most men recognize that if they behave more vulnerably they will lose a lot of respect and support. I think this is something a lot of women just don’t connect to because they aren’t living in a world where any admitting if vulnerability will put then in negative social and professional standing. A lot of feminist-minded individuals seem to think men will start feeling better if they just make the individual decision to be more vulnerable, which doesn’t take systemic forces into account.
Relating a little to the last point, my experience is that the “men can cry” group often falls short on practicing what it preaches. I’ve met so many people who happily share tweets about how men should be allowed to express themselves, only to respond with scorn, exasperation, and sometimes fear when the men in their own lives actually do so. Many people seem to think that saying men should be allowed to be vulnerable is enough, and actually acting with said statements in mind is unnecessary.
It often distracts from more pressing men’s issues. Granted, I do think challenging gender roles is a good thing, but when male genital cutting is legal everywhere in the world, men get longer prison sentences for the same crimes, boys get lower grades in many education systems for the same work, and abused men are assumed by default to be perpetrators in many countries and states, getting men to cry seems like an odd priority. A lot of people think that alone is enough to support men, when it clearly isn’t.

rammo123 · 2021-11-21T21:51:33+00:00

It falls under the umbrella of the "acceptable" men's rights issues, which is still firmly ringfenced around the things that are caused my men themselves, or by other men.

It is still utterly verboten to address issues caused by women, feminism or greater society.

-Gruagach- · 2021-11-21T21:54:36+00:00

The "it's time to talk" message is getting a bit pointless and if anything a bit dangerous. No point opening up if nobody listens and simply talking doesn't change the sociological, economic or political factors that have got us here.

Sydnaktik · 2021-11-21T12:36:26+00:00

There's a lot of points that I recognize in what you're talking about.

First, there is a legitimate men's issues where men who do need to cry or are prone to cry do not seem to receive the same level of social support that women would get in the exact same situation.

Second, there is a very similar men's health issues where it seems that some men (and supposedly it happens more with men than with women) refuse to process their emotions because they do not want to appear weak, and this causes them mental distress in the long run. I'm not mental health professional, but I practically never cry and I don't feel that this is causing me a build up of repressed emotions. But I've heard anecdotes of this being a real problem for some men.

Third, a lot of feminist institutions treat this issue as being the one true problem that men face. It is not, and it is insulting to present it as such. Moreover, discussion of this issue is often used as a trojan horse to present "toxic masculinity" rhetoric and start placing at the feet of men the responsibility of all of society's ills and demanding that they effectively accept original sin and change themselves in order to fix society.

Fourth, crying makes you appear weak. And this is no trivial matter. If Jeff Besos started crying at a shareholders meeting because his efforts to build a space industry lags behind that of Elon Musk, he would lose a lot of people's respect and would likely material hinder his future prospects. The ability to regulate your emotions, and in particular, not cry when things get tough, is a respectable and empowering ability.

So to condense all of that in a way that is more gracious towards men and masculinity I could present it as such:

It is shameful for anyone to lose respect for a man when he cries if they would not have lost respect for a woman who would cry in the same circumstances.

The ability to regulate your emotions to the point where you practically never need to cry is laudable, respectable and empowering. It is perfectly sensible for anyone to acquire this skill be they man or woman.

BloomingBrains · 2021-11-22T04:51:10+00:00

“boys can cry” “boys can wear make up” “boys can be feminine.”

I've always found it weird that those statements are grouped together, as if they have something to do with each other. I think its very telling about the way that society views men. Yes, men can cry, but doing as seen as feminine, which to most people (who are non-egalitarians) is just as bad. A true gender egalitarian approach would be to say: "its not masculine or feminine to cry, rather, its just something humans do." But by lumping it in with being feminine and wearing makeup, they are trying to make a connection without seeming like they are doing so.

Of course, earnest acceptance of feminine men is a good thing. But the problem is that, for most women, saying "men can be feminine" also has a second, unspoken aspect to it. Which is: but if you are feminine I won't see you as attractive or a "real man". Which also isn't necessarily wrong. I don't expect all women to be attracted to feminine men since that would make me a hypocrite as someone who isn't attracted to masculine women.

The problem is when both forces act together. Reminds me a lot of Dennis' "The implication" from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. You're allowed to say no to the traditional aspects of male gender roles on paper, but its expected that you won't say no, because of the implication (that you won't be a real man anymore, since that's feminine).

I mean, does anyone really believe that most of the women who say things like this would actually go out and date a guy who doesn't show toxic stoic traits? Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't just imagine that its very common. Which means its just a way to seem open minded and caring towards men, without actually being so, and secretly still enforcing misandrist (and misogynist) conservative ideals.

If I had a choice, I'd rather separate "boys can cry" and "boys can wear makeup" into two separate conversations. I guess baring that, it would basically achieve the same thing if most women were actually earnest about lumping those things together.

Quit_social_media · 2021-11-21T19:16:57+00:00

Honestly I'm fed up of it too. It's such a pointless empty gesture. Trust me, if you need to cry - you will. I know that well because I used to cry more in my teens when things were bad in my life. Whether it's held back or not, it makes no difference, because you'll just cry later instead of at that time. Crying is like sneezing.

And when you do cry, it absolutely should not be in front of people that will tear you down. It should be in private, in front of people that will support you, but definitely not your enemies that will savor and really enjoy the hurt you are in. It's a useful defence mechanism. When I cried badly once, it was in front of a therapist in private. It was absolutely the best and safest place to do so.

We are often told to not bottle our emotions and cry. But we damn well are told to have a lid on our explosive anger! And for good reason. If we are told to suppress our rage, then why is suppressing crying any different? There's a stranglehold on what emotions are okay and what one's aren't. And people have got a handle on their emotions, that's not harmful. That's maturity. I certainly don't expect my self to fly into a rage a shout out my frustrations onto people, so in the same vein I don't expect to crumble weeping at the slightest change of wind.

For me these days, I usually struggle to cry. It's not that I feel suppressed as such. It just feels pointless and inappropriate. I'm honestly the happiest I've probably been in years. Mentally I've been very stable and I've grown so much mental resilience since my teens. If I cried more, it would just be fake and ingenuine. I certainly would feel insulted if somebody told me I need to 'open up' more.

And lastly on point, some people really can't cry. Some people have psychological or personality quirks like flat affect or similar that make difficult or impossible to cry. It would be almost disrespectful, cruel and perhaps even spiteful to expect tgem to "try to express themselves and cry more".

AdamChap · 2021-11-22T05:49:29+00:00

They shouldn't say "Men can/should cry". They should say "We should accept men crying"

Crying doesn't get you the same results if you're a man vs if you are a woman. THATS the issue. Crying isn't so much a reaction to something sad as it is a call to attention, to alert others of an issue - to seek comfort.

If boys and girls are raised with different results from crying for instance you might expect a different behaviour later in life. You might also expect this if society doesn't listen to men's cries at all.

Why are men's problems their own fault and women's problems the fault of society or men? Would it not make sense that men too are at the whim of society as a whole?

infinitofluxo · 2021-11-21T13:16:21+00:00

This is used to weaken masculinity, not to offer support and understanding. Of course we cry and have many kinds of weaknesses, some are more or less masculine, but we are all men and we don't need females telling hs what we are.

Cfox006 · 2021-11-22T22:11:17+00:00

It’s turned into this shit scape goat feminists use to pretend they give a shit about men’s mental health and to pretend that feminism is about equality.

vhisic · 2021-11-21T10:56:04+00:00

i trained myself not to cry from a young age, it still comes out occasionally and to be frank... i dont much care for it. I dont think it solves anything and i dont think it helps, just makes me feel shit. I dont want to cry. Id much rather just be able to voice my issues without being mocked or judged.

reddut_gang · 2021-11-24T04:44:16+00:00

It's a dog-whistle. It's a dismissal of the issues men face that aren't about emotion under the guise of bringing awareness to men's issues. Especially when you look at how it's used.

PlagueDoctorMars · 2021-11-21T14:09:00+00:00

Something else I would add:

I see this slogan as yet another example of women claiming to want something they actually don't want. Because no woman wants a man who breaks down and cries like a little bitch every time times get hard. Women want a man to be someone they can lean on.

So yeah, when women say men can cry too, they should follow that with "...unless that man wants a woman."

Ghostglitch07 · 2021-11-21T12:52:21+00:00

As a man who struggles with wanting to be more feminine in a lot of ways I don't think it's entirely vapid. It doesn't go far enough certainly, but it's not nothing to be reminded that I can wear makeup or whatever and there are people who would accept that.

Algoresball · 2021-11-22T20:56:38+00:00

Yes, it’s just another way of dismissing the issues men face.

Title	Is anyone else getting kind of tired of “men can cry too”?
Author	SuspicousEggSmell
Upvotes	168
Comments	37
Date	November 21, 2021 7:36 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/qypxh5/is_anyone_else_getting_kind_of_tired_of_men_can/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/is-anyone-else-getting-kind-of-tired-of-men-can.1082862 https://theredarchive.com/post/1082862

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