Traditional gender roles and lesbianism.

ruboyuri · 2022-03-14T21:25:28+00:00

They work for a lot of people, but watching kids playing around with gender identity in the past decade makes it pretty clear that these roles are not appealing for a sizeable minority

xMariaChan22 · 2022-03-14T21:12:25+00:00

Some would say you "escaped" them by having one woman in the lesbian relationship play the dominant one.

PirateDocBrown · 2022-03-14T23:18:30+00:00

I know loads of bi guys who are the masculine one with a woman, but feminine with a guy.

So switching up roles isn't rare.

Noodlesandwings · 2022-03-15T00:13:21+00:00

But I feel like being more masc or fem doesn’t equal gender roles. I think being feminine and masculine are two genuine expressions that don’t necessarily mean one person has to be nurturing while the other has to be stern and strict.

tiposk · 2022-03-14T23:13:24+00:00

Nope, they're not impossible to escape. My partner and I look stereotypically masculine and feminine each, but in terms of behavior we don't follow rigid gender roles. He loves to cook and build things with his hands. I like computers and have the domestic abilities of a squirrel . When you stay true to yourself and don't see societal expectations as a must you can escape gender roles.

EstablishmentKooky50 · 2022-03-15T01:30:43+00:00

Are gender roles impossible to escape?

I think, it largely depends on what do you mean by gender roles. If it is about doing the laundry or earning the bread, it's unquestionably easy to escape, though it may cause all sorts of issues.

What really matters IMO is dominance and submission. It is virtually impossible to be in a 100% equal relationship, one will always have the last word, more so then the other, and that one will always be the more masculine one, with more power, more wit and more authority, more competency, wether it is the woman or the man and wether they feel satisfied with their status is an other story. People are equal, yet different. Men and women are equal, yet different.

PlayfulLawyer · 2022-03-14T22:21:26+00:00

Theres always a yin and yang

greedyleopard42 · 2022-03-15T02:31:23+00:00

gender is just the labels we’ve placed on certain behaviors. you’re using masculine to mean just “dominant”- of course there’s often a more dominant person in a relationship. like you said, a girl can be extremely feminine looking and still be the dominant one. i feel like that in itself shows you aren’t always going to follow the basic gender roles

Just-Pie-5579 · 2022-03-14T21:23:53+00:00

Before the introduction of birth control people thought of genders as more rigid categories than what they are now, and we can see how this shifted once women could control their reproductive function. Now from what I've observed people are starting to think that conversation about going no gender was and is premature. At our level of scientific advancement, gender roles are impossible to escape.

I ain't no evolutionary biologists so someone more educated on the topic can correct me, but right now I think there is two reasons why we can't avoid gender roles: pregnancy and the fact that we are hardwired around pregnancy, sex, reproduction. While I see how the pregnancy thing can technically be outsourced to labs, I don't see how we can circumvent millions of years of evolution to make our bodies understand that vulnerability associated with pregnancy is no longer an issue.

sarkington · 2022-03-14T23:43:14+00:00

Compared to 50-100 years ago? I’d say yes, gender roles have reduced considerably.

And in the last 10, so has gender identity

AnnoKano · 2022-03-15T09:08:21+00:00

OP is a man pretending to be a woman, calling it now.

NakedStreets · 2022-03-17T02:09:53+00:00

The only thing that makes these “gender” roles is your imagination.

It’s unlikely that both people in a relationship like peanut butter the exact same amount.

But because we don’t associate peanut butter with a gender, we don’t say, “SEE! It’s impossible to escape gender roles! One of these lesbians likes peanut butter more than the other!”

LotBuilder · 2022-03-14T21:08:13+00:00

Yes, they are. I have a close friend that is a masculine lesbian and she deals with the same challenges with women that men do.

Novadina · 2022-03-14T22:08:45+00:00

it is impossible for women and men to escape traditional gender roles

I disagree that it’s impossible. My husband and I have mixed it up quite a bit, we each do many things that are considered a male or female role, so it evens out in the end. For example, I do most of the cooking, a “female” thing, and he does the house repairs, a “male” thing. But I manage our money, a “male” thing, and he does the laundry, a “female” thing. There are tons of examples like this. And if we get into sex it gets even more blurred, many people here have told me I’m “like all women” because I’m submissive in bed, but many have also told me I’m masculine and my husband is gay because we do pegging.

Both of us never liked gender roles and specifically wanted relationships that didn’t require us to be put in that kind of rigid box.

2022-03-15T00:46:56+00:00

Yes they are. Even in a lot of same sex couples, there is a more masculine & feminine partner. It’s a wonderful balance. Masculinity and femininity complement each other.

As far as traditional gender roles, it’s tradition for a reason… it’s worked well for most of human history.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-03-14T21:59:19+00:00

Nobody is going to do exactly the same thing in a relationship, so there's always going to be someone who's a but more masculine than the other just so they're complementary. But as you've seen, gender doesn't determine who does what. (I'm also bi but always dominant/masculine, who I'm dating doesn't change my personality.)

Lateralanouncer · 2022-03-14T23:11:44+00:00

Exactly do you know how stupid it looks when some people fight this fact?

42nanaimobars · 2022-03-14T22:09:23+00:00

Gender roles aren’t a fundamental truth. Gender means nothing beyond physical characteristics.

behold_SUBLiMiTY · 2022-03-15T04:46:34+00:00

you are the one that thinks these are “gender roles” but they are in fact, not. you are actually free to choose the ways in which you behave regardless of if they are “typically associated” with males or females and there’s no law against it. you can also have two masculine females together, or two girly boys together. the reason those things might not typically work, is because people believe that they should stay in the roles they are “given” by “society” aka, their own desires to fit in, their own fear of feeling shame, and also, because they have strong biological inclinations to behave certain ways too. it seems to be in human nature to compete with members of their own sex is what i mean. though males also have their own unique biological urges too. men are much less aware of themselves too, so it takes a lot for them to break out of those roles. in addition to that, men are probably on a “societal” level more susceptible to scrutiny and shame for stepping out of “character.”

as for homosexuality and competition, well, i find gay men quite interesting. and it’s not something i can understand internally which kinda frustrates meeee, but still, i have a slight fascination. i’d actually like to know more about what it’s like to both compete with and also fuck the same people. as for lesbians, i’m less inclined to think that is as much about “sexual” urges as it is “romantic,” making it less about being attracted to same sex, and more about being attracted to certain characteristics which may be hard to find in most heterosexual men. from my personal experience, gender mattered (and matters) quite little to me, and my first relationship i mostly saw as an opportunistic feat, because she was well….naive (i wasn’t my angelic self back then) (oh, i’m also aware that this isn’t how most people pick mates…lol). my second relationship had the same pattern, just with a naive boy.

most men are too focused on sex and the superficial in my opinion, but that is what it is “to be a man,” and most women aren’t attracted to anything less at least initially. as they age, they probably? maybe? start to appreciate the softer men more, though it might be too late by then.

both genders have polarized away from each other because that is the drama of life. but, people that have integrated many qualities of both the “divine masculine” and the “divine feminine” are much more interesting, albeit extremely rare. well, depending on your taste i guess! i’m sure most of you sex crazed monkeys wouldn’t agree.

it would probably be better for many peoples’ mental health if they weren’t heterosexual since gender roles and the fight for sex and resources have tripped up peoples brains so much. just try to remember: you are all slightly more intelligent than an amoeba. stop being so utterly predictable 😿

AbbreviationsHot1200 · 2022-03-15T05:34:05+00:00

Yes.

Thats why so much of modern society is fucked up. Women are trying to up end 100,000 years of progress because they don't want to take orders from a man who doesn't look like an athlete.

Boop_Im_a_Rock · 2022-03-14T21:37:27+00:00

Absolutely yes. The whole of feminism, which goes hand in hand with lesbianism, rests on the abolition of gender and gender roles.

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KekeSmall · 2022-03-15T01:27:43+00:00

Gay men and women still grow up in a society where gender norms are enforced. Assuming they’re raised by heterosexual parents who probably also partake in traditional gender roles

cast-away-ramadi06 · 2022-03-15T08:01:58+00:00

Are gender roles impossible to escape?

No. My ex-wife and I both met when we were in the Corps. We didn't really have gender roles. I cooked, she did the dishes. We took turns with the laundry, she did the dusting & vacuuming, I took care of the lawn. We paid the bills together.

As for who took on the leadership role, I'd say it was a hard to tell. I was more assertive by nature but in a marriage, you should really pick your battles so almost everything was a compromise. The only arguement we had was about her not seeking help for PTSD and her accompanying alcoholism. I lost that argument and we lost our unbornuchild and marriage.

Spiritual-Nail-1753 · 2022-03-15T11:33:58+00:00

We are all build with the idea that masculine is dominant. We grow in this straight model, so we try to reproduce this without notice it. But it's actually not always like this. We need to forget this fucking fake role and learn to be ourself. The problem is that we were in this role for so long time that it's hard to do whithout. But i hardly believe that we can do it.

Funky_Smurf · 2022-03-16T10:59:25+00:00

Gender is so difficult because it's so ingrained in us that it becomes a circular reference.

What I mean is even in a homosexual relationship you ascribe 'masculine' and 'feminine' traits to things that don't need to be gendered on their face.

Who drives the car? Who is the provider? Who is the nurturer? Who fixes things? Who keeps the home in order?

It's easy to imagine a society where those things aren't seen as 'gendering' roles in a relationship.

girls can be bi and they would be more submissive in a straight relationship.

I think the other thing at play is how people play into their partner's behaviors to accentuate either what they are attracted to about them or how their partner likes to feel/see themselves.

It's like being switch when it comes to sexual dominance/submission. When I feel a woman show me she's aroused by me taking control I lean into that. When I see that she likes taking control I'm more than happy to play into a submissive role.

I think similar dynamics work in a relationship where you are seeing bi women express part of their personalities (traits that are there but might not be expressed in every situation) based on the impression & feedback they're getting

Title	Traditional gender roles and lesbianism.
Author	xMariaChan22
Upvotes	20
Comments	71
Date	March 14, 2022 8:59 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/te7nl7/traditional_gender_roles_and_lesbianism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/traditional-gender-roles-and-lesbianism.1106269 https://theredarchive.com/post/1106269

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