I drew my line in the sand about my fertility with my husband.

angelicasinensis · 2022-09-27T01:47:30+00:00

This makes me worried when you have kids he will kind of hold it over your head and will not help out so much....I tried to have kids with my EX and THANK GOODNESS..he kept pushing it off and we ended up breaking up over it....When I got with my now husband he was like jumping at the chance to have a baby and he is a GREAT and amazing dad (we have three and he is on board for #4 despite being 42...)..my EX is still a travelling musician, in a polyamorous relationship and will most likely never have kids.

Teacup000 · 2022-09-27T15:07:17+00:00

Oof. The line has been drawn. Your husband's biggest fear has already come true: things aren't fun anymore, and he won't be able to enjoy this next year. You are taking away a big priority, his freedom, and hoping he'll reward you with a baby for it.

In the future, I would pull out phrases like, "I can't see myself staying in a marriage without kids" "I'm really unhappy with how things are" before throwing down the gauntlet. But I'm nitpicking.

The most likely scenario I see happening is he has kids with you and isn't happy about it. Let's prepare for this:

He will not want to bond with baby. I'm unsure exactly how common this is, but men seem to have much less interest in babies then women do. If you breastfeed, the hormone oxytocin will help you and baby bond. Plus, you presumably really want and like babies already. He will have little interest in spending fun time with baby.
He will not want to help with this baby without being expressly told. Your husband will not want to hold baby, and even getting him to help while you shower and use the restroom will be a struggle. He will treat this like a chore, because it is to him. He will try to not respond when baby cries, feeling guilty about doing so, but still hoping you will show up and do the work.
He will bring up that he didn't want kids whenever things are tough, even if you're the one handling it.
If you feel overwhelmed and complain, he will have little sympathy.
If you tell him he cannot do want he wants to because of baby, he will become angry, frustrated, and resentful with you both.

Remember, you can only control your actions and how you respond to his actions. With this ultimatum, you're attempting to control his actions. Even if this works you CANNOT expect to control how he feels about the actions you're forcing him to take. This will lead to disaster. Constantly remind yourself you got the baby you want, and that will have to be enough.

Anecdote time:

My husband indulged me with having kids earlier than he would've liked to. I didn't have to threaten him or anything, I just told him I wanted to have kids in my early 20s. 1-4 have happened pretty regularly since, and I do a LOT of work to make sure he has plenty of free time nearly every day and that I handle the kids as much as I can. Our family is happy with this arrangement. I get my breaks from the kids (2 and 5 months) with the help of the grandparents.

Since our second has been born, my husband has become more involved without me having to ask. He'll come and help after work if he hears the baby crying while I'll make dinner. He gets his choice of which kid he'll take care of as we put them to bed. He likes that our oldest is talking more, but he's not very interested in these stages of life the way I am. He looks forward to school age children and teenagers.

Overall, I think he's a good father and like watching our toddler light up and run to him when he enters the room. I try to make fatherhood as pleasant and easy for him as I can. He made motherhood possible for me, and I will be forever grateful.

What I would do in you shoes:

Research daycare if you'll both continue to work. Research the cost of nannies and babysitters. Talk to your family and get a sense for how often they would help with grandkids. Try to get a sense of how much help you can get outside of your husband. Mentally prepare for raising this baby with your husband's love for you and his financial support, but don't expect too much more than that. Start your baby fund and cut down your spending now. Regardless of what happens, money will come in handy.

If you ending up broaching the subject again, express to him how important his happiness is to you, but that you cannot be happy without a baby. That you are no longer happy in this relationship, but that you are willing to work with him so that he enjoys family life. Encourage him to talk about what he wants his life to look like with baby. Work that into your plan for the future.

marceqan · 2022-09-26T20:37:16+00:00

A tricky situation but I think you handled it well - you stated your desire with a deadline, without nagging or repeating so now the ball is in his court. In the meantime I would take charge of your own fertility and things you can control - do some blood tests to see where you are at, take vitamins and supplements, clean up your diet, if you’re on the pill I would stop taking it (but informing your husband of course). Where is your circle of friends at when it comes to having kids? He might be reluctant if most of his guy friends don’t have kids, because of the fomo and having them around to remind him of the freedom he has lost. If you know any young families where the man enjoys parenthood, it might be worth spending more time with them to have your husband exposed to the joy of parenthood and see that while a substantial amount of freedom/money is gone, it doesn’t mean there is no fun left.

Pillprototype · 2022-09-26T20:40:40+00:00

Proud of you for setting a light boundary. I am in a similar situation and after too many light questions i took the detachment route. I do feel that it may be worth it to get out of your comfort zone and have more of a vulnerable conversation (assist you haven’t already) in more of a “this hurts me” way rather than a “this is my boundary” as sometimes men respond to that faster than the latter because they feel challenged. Its frustrating but it may just get you to your goal. Hope this works out for you ❤️

jaydeke · 2022-09-26T21:12:28+00:00

I was in a similar situation when I was in my mid-20s. Started getting agitated around 30, kept holding out for the “someday” he was telling me but had given up that hope by 35. Now I’m in my 40s and my husband has recently opened his mind to it being the right time to start a family.

Yeah, no thanks.

Hope it works out for you.

_Pumpkin_Muffin · 2022-09-27T03:31:12+00:00

It's hard to not see him as immature because of this, despite how on-his-shit he really is in life in general.

Don't let contempt seep in. That's a marriage killer. He has every right to want kids if and when he wants them, and not a minute before. If you despise him for it, he'll sense it.

While I'm a realistic person, I'm not the type who believes you can never video game or travel or meet up with the boys once kids happen, and that our marriage will become the stereotype about kids being the nail in the coffin. I work very hard to ensure he doesn't feel nagged at home, and that he has all the freedom in the world to do whatever he wants. When he announces he's going out to the bar with friends, I cheerily smile and say "That'll be nice, I hope you have fun!" and that's that

You can still do stuff with kids, but realistically, having kids is a life-changing decision. He WON'T have the freedom to do whatever he wants. I doubt you'll just send him off with a cheerful smile if he randomly wants to go out without considering the needs of the family. Kids are dependent on you 24/7 for years, and that's a fact. Of course it doesn't mean you'll never be able to do something fun or relaxing, but "never" and "whenever we want" are not the only options.

Honestly, my only plan is to keep moving as normal, but also start mentally preparing to detach and walk away around next fall, so that when the end of 2023 comes, I'm ready. If he ends up being ready before end of 2023, it'd be a welcomed miracle. But that "preparing to leave" mindset doesn't seem compatible with the RPW way.

When you start to mentally prepare to detach, you're already detaching. You can't stay in a relationship while making plans to leave, you can't go from "ok, ready to leave" to "yay let's try for a baby" in a second: that kind of wedge is not healed easily. Either you're in or you're out. If you're not in...

Let's say in December 2023 he tells you he's ready. Will you be able to shake off the doubt that he's capitulating for fear of losing you?

NamelessOneHere · 2022-09-27T21:48:41+00:00

The way I see this, OP is probably very angry and frightened. Her husband promised her to start trying for a baby years ago, and then changed his mind without giving her a new date. Since then, she has tried all kinds of ways to be patient and sweet. But I imagine that it's getting harder and harder not to feel furious at him.

It sounds like this ultimatum (or boundary, whatever) is really her way of trying to save the relationship. She can either get angrier and angrier, or she can calmly say, I love you but I can't stay in a relationship unless I know we are heading towards having babies.

For me, it wouldn't just be about wanting babies - it would also be wanting my husband to take my needs seriously. If I repeatedly expressed a major need to him, only to have him brush it aside for many years, I'd start to be really angry. It would be hard for me to get past that and not start to fester.

sunglasses90 · 2022-09-26T20:53:20+00:00

You did the right thing. You’re making your wants and needs clear. That’s important. You’re receptive of his concerns and his concerns are VALID. Kids are expensive and even more than that extremely time consuming. Thinking he’s going to have time to go out with the guys or do fun travel together is an unrealistic expectation once baby comes. IF baby is healthy and happy it might be doable, but babies are finicky. He/she might be fine/sleep well one night and not stop crying the next and you both wont be sleeping. Even if he has the time to go out he might not have the energy. Do you live close to family who can babysit? That makes a huge difference in quality of life and stress level.

Overall though you’re approaching 30. That’s not the end of the world, but most people who have kids will tell you not to wait too long. You want the energy to deal with them and to minimize health complications.

I sympathize with both of you. I’m getting married at 30 and will will start trying right away. I’m terrified of what children will do to our quality of life which is amazing right now, but at the same time I know that fear comes from the unknown more than anything. I’m scared of change and I’m terrified of things I can’t control and having a kid and potential health concerns is a whole lot of just praying for the best. I know I need to relax and trust in God and take the leap. It’s a huge commitment and the first time we will be putting something above ourselves. I think maybe get some men in his corner who can support him through the process.

abishagofthevalley · 2022-09-26T20:00:25+00:00

Start following socials of new parents who adventure with babies, toddlers, kids etc. Life IS more fun with children. You can carry them in wraps slings whatever, nurse on the go, live van lives or 5*. If you want max flexibility, you can homeschool.

Show him that. He can teach them.his hobbies. Life gets richer at all levels for men as well.

sicrm · 2022-09-27T04:26:53+00:00

if you do end up having kids with him, are you prepared to handle most (maybe all) of the childcare while not being resentful at him?

maybe it won’t go that away but from reading your post that sounds like a possibility.

Jenneapolis · 2022-09-26T23:18:33+00:00

I tried this approach to get a proposal years ago and it failed miserably. Men don’t respond to ultimatums period. IF he gives you what you want, he’ll resent you hard. You are only 27. Yes kids younger is ideal but if you leave, how quickly do you think you’ll marry and gave kids with someone new? That takes a long time and there’s no guarantee. I’d stay and lay off the topic. While I get having kids younger is ideal, you both still have plenty of time.

stripe_throwaway · 2022-09-26T20:51:09+00:00

You talk about your wants, goals, and desires. What are his? Does he want a family?

NupeRanger · 2022-09-26T22:44:30+00:00

Male perspective here. I'm sorry to say, but I think your husband is just on a different (male) time-line. A lot of men don't even really star considering children until mid to late 30s. By 40, your husband will probably be "ready".

It really sucks, but some men really want to put all of their ducks in a row, check off all the "fun" things on their bucket list, and get ready to kiss freedom goodbye before they want to tackle the challenges of fatherhood. It sounds like that is where your husband is right now.

Have you sat down with him and shared the data around risks associated with women having children after the age of 35? I cannot quote all the statistics, but there is an increase in complications for the mother, increased risk of birth defects, and things of that nature the older the mother. He needs to understand that this is not you pushing your "agenda" or trying to boss him around. But you want what is best for you, him, and your future children. So to out your health and the health of your children first, you'd like to be finished having all your children by age 3#.

From there, you should ask him what his thoughts are and what he sees for his life plan. Really try to dig in and get a better understanding of how he sees his life playing out over the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years.

Right now, based on how you told your story, it sounds like, "this is what I want, and if you don't give it to me, I'm leaving you on this date!"

That type of ultimatum isn't going to make any man feel loved and secure in his marriage with his wife, and possible mother of his children.

In his mind, if you are willing to plan your departure because his timeline for children is 12 months further out that yours... what happens when you don't agree with the pre-school he chooses, or if he wants to get the baby vaccinated and you don't (or vice versa)?

Will you pull this card again? "Do what I say on XYZ topic, or I will divorce you, take your kids, move across the country and marry some random guy who will see your kids more than you ever will!"

I know this is a drastic example, but these are the kinds of thoughts that tend to come into men's minds when their wives start threatening to leave if they don't get their way.

So in summary, try coming from a place of love and support, that is putting his needs and the health of your children as the priority, as opposed to him being FORCED to follow your time-line, lest he be served with divorce papers next New Year's Eve.

aussiedollface2 · 2022-09-27T19:28:57+00:00

Men are really good at talking about serious things (marriage, kids etc) in a jokey, positive and seemingly genuine way. It doesn’t mean anything aside from the fact they are trying to not be a red flag by saying straight up no. The real test is whether they will talk about it in concrete rather than abstract terms. It’s disappointing your partner won’t but you need to think of yourself. Get your health on track and start some prenatal supps x

AutoModerator · 2022-09-26T19:54:32+00:00

Title: I drew my line in the sand about my fertility with my husband.

Full text: Condensed backstory: 27F, 30M, I'll be 28 early next year. Married for over three years, together for over 7. We met in college and really grew together, focusing on building our financial house and attaining the things we wanted in life. Maybe this was a mistake. We're doing well in our respective fields. We are under contract to sell our first home next month and our new build should be complete by the end of the year.

We can afford to save and travel. He can drive the type of car he wants to drive, which was very important to him. He can indulge in his hobbies. We live very comfortable lives for people our age.

Perhaps focusing too much on my career was a mistake. Perhaps I didn't find a family-oriented man. I don't know. But I've been asking since I turned 25 to have kids and he still has not been ready. There have been a lot of excuses, but mainly fear of loss of freedom/flexibility with money to do what he wants to do. We've always agreed on having kids, it was the when, not if. I have gotten really bold about it over the past year, joking when he'll give me a baby, openly discussing timelines, etc. He was okay with those discussions when lighthearted, but when it came down to set a date, he would refuse. The wait has been extremely conflicting for me. So I eventually let him know, about a month ago, that my personal line in the sand is end of 2023, and if we can't start trying by then, then unfortunately we'll have to go our separate ways. He told me he understood and we haven't spoken about it after that.

I'm trying to remain optimistic that this won't end in a divorce. I show up for him hard, every day, to try to foster an environment that feels conducive to having children in. But I'm also second-guessing myself. Having children is really important to me, and I see him as the father of my future children. From what I can understand, he's not ready to allocate funds from "fun stuff" to kids, and "put fun behind him." It's hard to not see him as immature because of this, despite how on-his-shit he really is in life in general.

While I'm a realistic person, I'm not the type who believes you can never video game or travel or meet up with the boys once kids happen, and that our marriage will become the stereotype about kids being the nail in the coffin. I work very hard to ensure he doesn't feel nagged at home, and that he has all the freedom in the world to do whatever he wants. When he announces he's going out to the bar with friends, I cheerily smile and say "That'll be nice, I hope you have fun!" and that's that.

My line in the sand has ultimately provided me the peace I was looking for, because he could not provide me the assurance that we would start trying by x date. I'm envious that he's not the enthusiastic future dad some of my other married friends have. But over the past few months (when I really have stepped up my RPW game), whenever we do talk about our future kids, in a casual setting teasing about how he'd handle x thing or when we'd bring them to y place, it's nice, and feels normal. So I'm disappointed that he is playing the scared man role in parallel with envisioning some future with our kids, even if it's a common thing many men go through. I have a lot of mixed emotions about it and wonder if I just need to stop overthinking it and take the fact that he hasn't walked away yet as a sign that doesn't want to lose me over this, even if he can't say it aloud.

Honestly, my only plan is to keep moving as normal, but also start mentally preparing to detach and walk away around next fall, so that when the end of 2023 comes, I'm ready. If he ends up being ready before end of 2023, it'd be a welcomed miracle. But that "preparing to leave" mindset doesn't seem compatible with the RPW way.

Maybe it's the "start of a new cycle" disappointment, but I'm just really down and conflicted about it today, and trying not to get into "He's never going to be ready by your deadline, stop kidding yourself!" territory.

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oliveshoot · 2022-09-27T01:57:17+00:00

It is important that you as a member of this marriage to graciously respect your own desire for children, even if just privately for a while. Laura Doyle talks about expressing your desires as a wife without pressure, and I recommend this approach. There is a risk in keeping totally quiet for years in that he might forget that you becoming a mother is indeed crucial to your identity and happiness, or else you would not have spoken about it prior to committing to him in marriage. So it's important to you. He loves you and has committed to you with those desires of yours in his mind.

Yet I would work out the your emotions about this with girlfriends. I'd read all the books about fertility that you want to and pour your energies into becoming as fertile as you possibly can. Get all the tests run that you want to and can do, assuming that you will possibly have fertility waning the longer you go. You can do a lot of these doctor's visits, books, and research on your own, and it will only aid you. If you do need to wait to conceive later, you will have a lot of information and tools in your tool belt for how to navigate fertility. Start charting your cycle for a year. You will then know how to time things so that all you both have to do is, well you know. :)

There is a risk in losing opportunities if he waits a long time. But don't get overwhelmed. Journal about it, talk about it with others, and work behind the scenes to create as much opportunity for conception on your own as you can. You will feel less anxiety. Looking back when you are 40 years old, you will feel like this time wasn't wasted on just waiting. You did something about it. And you'll be less likely to resent waiting, too.

But honor your desire for being a mother and having children. Pray about it if you are a person of faith. If you guys do have any sort of delays with fertility when you do start, it may actually motivate him. With a person such as him who enjoys his freedom greatly (and who doesn't?), if the option of having children is not seen as a given, he may want it more.

But I wish you the absolute best with this and that you are able to be a mother.

passionatefruition · 2022-09-27T16:40:41+00:00

The first year of being a first time parent was HARD. But toddler years are so fun. We still travel but choose places differently. We booked an Airbnb on the beach last year so I had a kitchen to make meals and next year we’re thinking of going to the Nickelodeon Caribbean resort or a Disney cruise. I’m looking forward to traveling more now that I’m a parent. Can’t wait till they’re older and mix history with travel… how fun would it be to learn about pyramids and see them in person vs just reading about it in a history book? Honestly you guys sound like you have our life prior to having kids and I’m not going to lie, the first year was a major adjustment, but we love being toddler parents and are already talking about another one! Also, we were together 7 years as well before we had our first one (dated for 6, married for 1).

Another thing I’m trying to prioritize is building enjoyable outdoor spaces on our property. We got a hot tub for example that has helped replace date nights, that sort of thing

deadpanne · 2022-09-27T00:44:36+00:00

Good on you for communicating what you want! I hope it works out for you <3

tabeatroester · 2022-09-27T11:12:51+00:00

Having kids won’t be any easier if you do it later rather than now. It sounds like you guys are in a great position to start a family. If he wants kids with you i think he should bite the bullet. I had my first baby at 25 and my 2nd at 28. Yes its rough at the begining and your life is sort of on hold as far as travel goes for a while but the good thing is: they grow up! Once they reach about 3 you start to feel like you can do things like travel/have a life again. That was the age i felt like i could leave the house w/o so much stuff (like a stroller, diapers etc).

TheFireKnight · 2022-09-27T00:38:20+00:00

The only thing matching how gross and immature he is for not wanting kids because he wants more "fun time" is you threatening to divorce him for not doing things according to your timeline.

Actually, although he started it, your move is worse

imlost_n_ilikeithere · 2022-09-27T12:55:34+00:00

He wants children just not with you. You should move on.

I drew my line in the sand about my fertility with my husband.

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Title	I drew my line in the sand about my fertility with my husband.
Author	passionatefruition
Upvotes	65
Comments	63
Date	September 26, 2022 7:54 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/xotum4/i_drew_my_line_in_the_sand_about_my_fertility/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/i-drew-my-line-in-the-sand-about-my-fertility-with.1133782 https://theredarchive.com/post/1133782