A lot of red pilled dudes seem to think women are into bad guys, but they also forget if you're an average or ugly looking, fat neckbearded dude using asshole behavior to compensate for in the looks department, that will be just as off turning as being a shy timid nice guy

Ok_Change_1063 · 2023-01-08T03:02:52+00:00

They’re not into bad guys. They’re into guys so hot that they can afford to piss women off and still get laid.

96tillinfinity_ · 2023-01-08T01:42:23+00:00

It’s not about being a “bad guy”. It’s about being a bad guy who’s also very attractive. And attractive guys (and people in general) tend to be assholes because they can get away with it and are even rewarded for it.

Goyeyo565 · 2023-01-08T03:30:48+00:00

I think that when a lot of dudes talk about bad boys what they trying to say is that attractive bad boys have a higher SMV than average looking good guys.

That the generic dating advice about being kind/nice/agreeable/having empathy (personality > looks) is misleading because attractive bad boys/assholes/bullies are non of that and they seem to have a lot more success with women.

In the case of Lionel Messi, I mean the guy is a living legend he can have all the red flags he wants and still get top tier women.

gobble6gobble9 · 2023-01-08T03:51:36+00:00

There are only two rules:

Be attractive
Don’t be unattractive

The rest is aesthetics

GNP_Aficionado · 2023-01-08T11:30:34+00:00

Women aren't attracted to confidence in and of itself.

But they find a lack of confidence a massive turn off (as they should).

DryOutcome3407 · 2023-01-08T03:56:03+00:00

If you're a average fat and neckbeard it do not matters if you're nice guy or a badboy you won't be getting nothing BUT you're also, by being abrasive, not a good target for beta buxing what is a win for everyone in the equation, except the women.

Let's use one of the most famous football player as metric... Hahhahahahahahahahahaaaahhahahahahahahhhahahahahahaahaahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhaajhshahahahahahha my sides.

My post get shadow banned while this garbage pass any filter this sub have on, this is a fucking joke.

LeanderGrant · 2023-01-08T01:59:30+00:00

It's not about being a good guy and it's not about being a bad guy. It's about getting the woman to invest in your happiness. Bad guys are better at encouraging women to invest in their happiness. Whereas nice guys will constantly give, and the woman will not invest in the relationship because she is not expected to.

Obviously, if a man is cursing at a woman she will easily dismiss him from the potential partner list. To be successful he must be subtle when creating expectations for her to meet.

Us men work the same way. If we are not expected to invest in a woman's happiness then we cannot see her as valuable and lose attraction. Fortunately, women are very good at convincing us to invest in them, sometimes through guilt-tripping, gender roles, etc. When a woman does not invest in a man she cannot see him as valuable and she cannot remain attracted to him.

No matter how presentable you are, a nice man cannot keep a woman's attraction because he does not give her opportunities to invest in his happiness.

Messi's relationship looks healthy. He seems like a good man, but balanced. He obviously expects his wife to invest in his happiness and his wife expects him to invest in her happiness. That does not mean they are always happy. Real relationships have ups and downs and disagreements. Because it's two people living together and one should not constantly sacrifice their autonomy just to appease their partner.

Wrasserman · 2023-01-08T06:06:08+00:00

Most guys aren't neckbeards, the neckbeard trope is a stupid ad-homenim many bluepill sympathisers use to justify a man being alone.

This entire post is an ad-homenim full of false equivalences and ridiculous assumptions. Messi is not the average guy, if Messi was a random nobody with the same attitude he'd hardly be seen as attractive by most people.

Concerning the last part of this post there have been serial killers who have women send them love letters in prison.

mustangfrank · 2023-01-08T03:48:20+00:00

I call BS.

Women choose who they want to have relationships with. They are the gate keepers of sex. The man initiates his interest in her, but she accepts or rejects him. It is HER choice, not his. If the man turns out to be a shitbag, it was her choice. But women refuse to acknowledge their failures and bad choices by blaming the man they choose as the problem. (If your baby daddy ain’t worth shit, then why did you let him into your vagina?)

No doubt men can be shitbags and men do shitty things all the time. If you don't want shitbags, then stop having sex with shitbags. If you don't want shitbag husbands, then stop marrying shitbags. If you don't want shitbags fathering your children, stop letting shitbags impregnate you. Want to know why men act like shitbags? Because women reward them for acting like shitbags. Women give shitbags lots of sex, lots of attention, and lots of deference and respect. When you reward shitbaggery, you get shitbags.

Think about this. If overnight, instead of women rewarding shitbags with sex, they rewarded the kindest, most loving, most caring, honest, hard working men, socially responsible men of society, all children would be loved and cared for and all women loved and protected. So ladies, step up to the plate and choose a good man for once, instead of f*cking the bad boys you complain so much about. That would be a real change for the better for everyone.

Such behavior would facilitate the creation of more good men. It would incentivize positive behavior from men and at the same time stigmatizing bad behavior women claim to hate. The problem is that women don’t hate such behavior, or if they do, their lust for Chad, Bad Boy, Gangbanger, Thug, Criminal, Ex-Con, etc., overcomes any hatred of bad behavior by these men. Women’s tingles override logic and reason. But for those women who choose the “tingles” mating strategy, it has been shown over and over again to end in failure. We don’t live in cave man times anymore. The days of Brains over Braun are here. And women who live in a bygone era of “tingles” lose, and lose big time. As proof, all one has to do is look at the kind of men single moms choose. Were they good men? Most likely not. They chose tingles and lost. A few of these single moms will find a Billy Beta to support them, but even the Billys are starting to wake up to the down sides of dating single moms.

I used to believe that good honest women sometimes made bad choices. Now, I know that is not true. This may be true for a very few, many more women pretend that they don’t want shitbags, but years of their choices are evidence to the contrary. Shitbags choose shitbags.

Updated 6/30/2022

Woman commented: look, when I was in my early tweinties I was having fun and it’s okey to do so; stop telling me women should just stick to find a husband in her 30s; and yes, you’re right, I rejected good guys and went for assholes, and I may end up alone and I’m sad about it. BUT I don’t regret enjoying my 20s and fucking around a bit (cool guys get to do this, cool girls who like sex may get to do that as well, right? or we’re just on earth to find a husband?)

und3r-c0v3r · 2023-01-08T03:55:32+00:00

I saw several complete ogres in high school who were complete jackasses to everyone who never seemed to have a problem getting girls way out of their league. just an anecdote but makes me think that they like them because their of their personality not despite it.

RegularDue9718 · 2023-01-08T01:47:23+00:00

How do you know Messi has a stable relationship?

Being shy is a negative. Being rich and powerful does make up for it though. I'm not sure "shy" means the same thing to me as it does to you though

MarBitt · 2023-01-08T06:21:34+00:00

There are definitely women and girls who have a soft spot for certain types of bad boys, a flawed approach to dating or a weakness that makes them easy prey for bad men.

Women choose the bad boys either because they a) have hybristophilia, saviour complex, victim mentality, a bad upbringing, crave danger and excitement in a short-term sexual relationship, b) are submissive, masochistic, have rough sex or rape kink and associate male dominance with bad behavior in general, or c) are bad girls enough to turn a nice guy into a doormat within a few months and then they get bored of such a boy and feel a little sorry for him, so they go straight for boys and men who are rough around the edges. Romantic films and books for women are also to blame for this, often romanticizing bad boys with potential and building the plot on how love will gradually change him.
Women exclude good, honest men with their approach to dating, if they have unrealistic expectations of men's ability to pick up on their signals and willingness to take risks trying to approach her. So in practice they are then won by a man who doesn't care about signals and just approaches anyone he likes with the attitude that if it scares, offends or annoys her, that's her problem. Or by a player who approaches women and girls as a hobby and because he's done it hundreds and thousands of times, he has experience and thick skin.
They are easily deceived by bad men if they desire to be deceived and prefer a perfect illusion to an imperfect truth. One can always promise more than deliver, so whoever is willing to lie and pretend has an advantage. That is also why people lie and pretend. Some women want to hear sweet, unrealistic lies so much that they fall for the first guy who love bombs her or nods to whatever she says just to get into her panties. Also if a man does not care about a woman, then it is simply easier for him to masterfully flirt.
The willingness to behave amorally, transgress social rules and take advantage of the vulnerable positions of some women can help otherwise ugly and undateable men steal a woman or at least use her for sex. If there were no benefits to be gained by breaking the rules and laws, then people would not do it.

k_aevitas · 2023-01-08T08:21:35+00:00

It's not just about being a bad guy, you have to know how to do it PROPERLY. otherwise a guy who pushes random people down escalators, punches and steals from old women, trips a small kid and laughs at him will all be getting ladies and they don't.

Typically being an attractive bad boy in this context includes exuding surface level confidence, not caring about what other people think (including what other women think), knowing how to carefully balance that line between being an asshat and being nice to not tip the scale too far over, funny sense of humour, having the right level of extroversion, and overall having a history of capturing female attention and exuding sexual confidence like a Casanova. Knowing how to use the black rose method and fractionation also makes women often succumb to their charms.

How do I know this ? I've seen guys who look like hideous short garden gnomes or gremlins land beautiful women and women in general by naturally having that personality above. Do looks help ? Of course it's a huge bonus but contrary to belief women actually care less about looks than men because their ability to get sexually turned on is a result of many factors, including how the guy actually makes her feel

No_Reflection_798 · 2023-01-08T02:31:18+00:00

Your logic makes no sense. My take away:

Being a shy nice guy is just as bad as being an ugly asshole.
But, look at Messi. He's a shy nice guy, and got someone.

Which is it?

SmallSituation6432 · 2023-01-08T02:25:44+00:00

Why did glasses have to be brought into this bro? That's just mean spirited.

David16th · 2023-01-08T08:03:45+00:00

So being shy and nice is viewed by women as bad ? Damn man

YtBlue · 2023-01-08T08:04:28+00:00

This is just a stupid notion. If attractiveness was all that was to it. They wouldn't be an asshole because they'd get what they want. If they want sex, they'd just ask and receive. Attractive people are normally nicer because they get whatever they want. However the reason why they are attractive is precisely because whether ugly or not being an asshole is in itself attractive to some women.

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Diceheist · 2023-01-09T13:50:49+00:00

I've seen ugly jackasses with girlfriends. I haven't seen ugly shy guys with girlfriends.

14ers4days · 2023-01-08T09:49:19+00:00

What red pill dudes think is absolutely wrong and it's not really worth it to try and explain reality to them. They've decided to drop out. Women don't know they exist or care.

Just a real quick note for anyone on the fence, my first and strongest crush was on a soccer player who was nicer and more mature than everybody else. He was genuinely cool to everyone. He stopped bullies in their tracks with a single look. Like he could just take them aside and say "No" and they would crumble and forget whatever jackass bullshit they were in the process of. He never got in any fights or trouble and was definitely not a bad boy. All the girls were obsessed with this guy. I still am LOL!

gudinn · 2023-01-08T10:45:25+00:00

Bro really went: "look at Messi". Bitch if I was Messi I sure as hell would'nt be here.

puririnpa · 2023-01-08T10:48:07+00:00

women choose for high status relative to their enviorenment, not ofr assholery nor for niceness.

Decent-Zombie-5513 · 2023-01-08T12:37:38+00:00

Isnt this bad guy meme mostly pulled out when women try to shame men for their bad personalities as the issue for not getting love? The incel can just point to Jamal with his teardrop tattoo, baby mommas and 2 foot long..... rap sheet from selling crack to teenagers.

Jamal's disgusting personality doesn't get in his way so that cant be the problem.

D_D_BA4 · 2023-01-08T13:24:24+00:00

You really used the greatest player in the history of his sport as your example? Are you 12?

PapaPinyun · 2023-01-08T14:39:03+00:00

the problem is that your idea of a "bad guy" is wrong and not what we are like at all.

What you're calling "bad guys" (I thought it was "bad boy...?") are only "bad" to the power structures. In a churchy circle it's the guy who doesn't accept the group's bible interpretation and who lives by his own interpretation. In the east-coast cul-de-sac Bidenville NPC corporate classes, it's the guy who reads a Bible for his own reasons and then doesn't swear or use porn.

Bad in the sense that you are trying to grasp means, "rebels against attempts to control him," and perhaps in a deeper sense, "communicates by his presence and character the idea that he understands that no men are authorized to control him,"

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2023-01-08T18:22:44+00:00

Stop.... You can't just say, see this doesn't work because women wouldn't date a literal pile of shit...

There is the looks threshold that everyone has to pass or the other person is not going to date them, regardless of how God like their personality is.

I have seen some pretty average guys have the "confidence + arrogant" combination get girls.

BlackGriffin_1 · 2023-01-08T18:23:27+00:00

I’m glad that people are starting to realize this. Nice guys don’t finish last, ugly guys do.

2023-01-08T18:55:20+00:00

See, what men do not get?

Being a "bad boy" to the whole world BUT his family.

2023-01-08T20:58:37+00:00

Are jerks successful because they are jerks? Or are they successful because their physical attractiveness is such that many women are willing to ignore or justify their attitude?

I agree it's not a very good idea to be a "bad boy" if you have average or below-average looks (I think it's also not a good idea even if you're handsome); however, I think that being very nice, peaceful and kind isn't a good strategy either: in certain contexts being a bit aggressive, cynical and daring can work quite well to increase your attractiveness, and this has nothing to do with being a bad person or a "bad boy."

Look at Lionel Messi, the guy is more shy than a turtle and the dude literally still has a stable relationship to this day.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you can use a person who has been exceptional in one field to tell everyone else there's no problem with being shy, short, ugly, weak or anything other negative trait to society.
This reminds me months ago, on this subreddit, someone said virgin men are not seen as inferior and as an example of that this person mentioned Newton.
Messi can be shy because he's one of the most brilliant footballers in history. Nobody cares too much that Newton died a virgin because he was (and is) one of the most brilliant physicists ever. And all this brings us back to the initial point: handsome men can be jerks because they're handsome.

SoldierExcelsior · 2023-01-09T03:05:54+00:00

We don't think it we know it and have the data and statistics to prove it

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-01-09T04:13:22+00:00

The equation for casual sex goes LUCK > LOOKS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else.

No one can smell anyone else's insecurity. Stop buying into snap judgment bullshit.

Ugly/average people simply aren't judged favorably at first no matter how they act. The reactions you observe aren't even reactions to their character.

fizeekfriday · 2023-01-09T23:30:59+00:00

I'm kinda late but I disagree

I believe there are archetypal masculine personalities that exist for women that they are attracted to. This basically just means, for every man there is something they could emulate that most women could vibe with sexually.

An ugly guy COULD pull off being an asshole snd have it be sexually attractive. It's not so much about turning her on with your words, it's about her being able to see you as a sexual being. That plays into the archetypes I was talking about.

So picture the guy who's supposedly ugly or unattractive. In what scenarios throughout history would a guy with his build and personality have gotten laid? He has to emulate those men or past archetypes in front of women to get laid.

jedi1josh · 2023-01-13T03:51:27+00:00

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but I find the phrase "neck beard" to be a form of body shamming.

mesa45 · 2023-01-25T17:30:52+00:00

Also Lionel Messi makes 100m a year and is the top at his sport. Give the fat neckbeard 100m salary, he will be swimming in pussy. You forgot that it’s Money-charm-looks… fuck everything after that doesn’t matter too much does it?

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