Why is /r/mensrights so opposed to /r/theredpill?

saint2e · 2013-08-27T13:51:47+00:00

Full disclosure: I wandered into TRP before I found this subreddit. I'm also married, so a lot of the PUA stuff intrigues me (I've read The Game by Neil Strauss) from a theoretical perspective, but not from a practical or applicable perspective.

Was reading away and read a lot of things that made sense. But as I was reading, I got a "women are inferior" vibe from a lot of the posts/threads which didn't sit well with me. Perhaps I am wrong by thinking that, as I don't know the mindset of the posters, but that's what I got from reading their comments.

Someone linked to a thread here, and I found this subreddit to be a lot better. Feminists get bashed here quite a bit, but I don't get the "women are inferior" vibe I got from there. Not saying this subreddit is perfect by any means, but I prefer it to TRP.

lazlounderhill · 2013-08-27T20:24:38+00:00

the redpill is a system to successfully navigate a social imbalance.

the mrm seeks to identify and correct the social imbalance.

sillymod · 2013-08-27T15:18:20+00:00

It has nothing to do with rights.

The majority of MR members wish to treat women with respect and not as walking vaginas to be used. Maybe not all TRP members feel that way, but that is the perception that it gives off.

PerniciousOne · 2013-08-27T17:44:21+00:00

I am a subscriber to both, and they both have different points of view. I belong to the MenRights reddit because it demonstrates how men are disadvantaged in society, and offers some suggestions and solutions to help men generally. I belong to the RedPill reddit because it is about personal responsibility and accountability, demanding that you hold yourself to higher standards, and take care of primarily yourself. These things will help you attract higher quality women.

They are two sides of the same coin, Redpillers talk about how to improve yourself, and MensRights talks about helping others.

crankypants15 · 2013-08-27T13:10:47+00:00

Because theredpillers write stuff which could be interpreted as generalizations, when in fact, I believe they mean to illustrate a trend. On Reddit, you actually should write out "This is a trend I have personally observed" otherwise you'll get pissy comments about how generalizations don't apply to everyone.
Because it's very angry and gets nowhere.
It's extremist and comes off as a bunch of crazies, just like the feminists.
~~all~~ Many of the good points are swamped in a sea of misogyny. (Decent points are often phrased in a way that sounds anti-equality, or sexist. There is a helpful, and unhelpful way to phrase things.)

Yes I get that guys are upset by the inequity, especially in the area of divorce courts. I got a divorce. My life savings was in the house equity and I lost it all. But I moved on with my life.

Mytecacc · 2013-08-27T14:43:48+00:00

My issue is the dogma, irrationality, faux alpha male nonsense and groupthink.

I'll give you an example, men and women with certain personality disorders can be very charming and attractive to the opposite sex, they can lure people in and treat them badly and the people will keep going back for more.

The likes of redpill, like feminism is only looking through one eye, and only sees the women that are attracted to men with PDS and holds it up as proof of their ideology, when in reality what it is, is conformation bias.

rightsbot · 2013-08-27T12:30:24+00:00

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TheCameraLady · 2013-08-27T14:09:46+00:00

They have different goals.

The red pill seeks to exploit commonly-held beliefs of shallow women in our culture in order to get men laid. It works well.

Men's Rights fight for gender equality. They're entirely different animals.

nonservator · 2013-08-27T14:32:50+00:00

Just as "paleo" encompasses everything from the Arctic to the equator, the red pill includes MRA's, PUA's, MGTOW's, and everything else you can possibly imagine men doing who have decided to live with ugly, painful truth instead of lies.

dungone · 2013-08-28T04:15:44+00:00

Forget the misogyny, I cringe at their psuedo-science nonsense and delusions of grandeur. I can't get several sentence into any of it without finding some glaring contradiction in their worldview.

2013-08-27T15:46:20+00:00

The pseudo-scientific garbage, mostly.

Everything they all say has a very thin veneer of truth to it, but they don't really have the discipline or objectivity to investigate the matters fully and without bias. As a result, they often take things in bizarro directions, the same way feminists often do. They start at your conclusion and then work their way back from it.

Edit: changed 'you' to 'they'.

giegerwasright · 2013-08-27T13:20:29+00:00

If you want to be a manipulative and decietful dickhole who uses other people as fleshlights with a pulse, that's your prerogative and it is their responsibility to be intelligent enough to see through your shallow veneer. You know "A fool and his money are soon parted," and "You can't con an honest man" and all that. But the whole pickup artist thing is a stain on honest human interaction and the profound connections that it can offer. I won't have it in my presence and I won't participate in it.

geengaween · 2013-08-27T14:49:29+00:00

Because the claims they make about sexual dynamics and female psychology only apply to a certain proportion of women, while they make it seem like all women are like this. Sure some women are vapid, greedy, beauty obsessed facebook addicts who are slaves to their biology, but you don't HAVE to spend time with those women. Having relationships with that type of women is a choice.

There are plenty of women who are generous, kind, and self-sacrificing, but TRP never mentions them. Red pillers aren't interested in those types of women, because they don't tend to be glamorous beauty queens.

My wife is not anything like TRP's claims, and while I do know women that fit the description (doesn't everyone?), I also know a lot of women who don't.

soulcakeduck · 2013-08-27T16:23:46+00:00

They're pro-rape and anti-women's suffrage. Their sidebar argues women are developmentally inferior to men. Among other things.

alonzoherpington1 · 2013-08-29T09:43:08+00:00

There's been a lot posted so I'm going to go really basic here. Biologically, women are not as capable of survival and much more prone to health issues because of their reproductive organs.

Even more basic: If they can't open their own pickle jar like an adult why the hell do they need equal rights?

Those two things probably come off as misogyny, right? One's based on fact, the other is anecdotal at best and misogynistic at worst, but still a seemingly reasonable assumption. The reason MRM and TRP don't get along is they approach the problem differently. MRM fight like feminists to regain that which has been lost to a largely neofeminist movement, TRP ignore the issue, do what they want, and ignore the neofeminists that are causing the issue. Thus, TRP doesn't even have to fight and they get what they want. By comparing a concept like the MRM to TRP you have lost before the debate begins: MRM shows up to the debate well prepared, they know they will 'win'. TRP spends a half a day's loose text messaging to fuck the sisters of everyone ready to debate, they lost the debate by not showing up but they never cared and they won the only victory they were interested in today.

Demonspawn · 2013-08-27T15:45:14+00:00

Because a few years ago the MRM movement was taken over by egalitarians who think that equality between men and women is actually possible and even desirable while ignoring the fact that seeking equality leads to a system of female supremacy.

TRP is the heavy dose of reality that lets them know their goals are not only impossible but the seeking of them is detrimental to society.

Cookie · 2013-08-27T13:38:35+00:00

I find the red pill / pua communities to have a lot of interesting things to say about the sexual behaviour of both sexes, what we're taught that it will be, what it seems to actually be, how this differs and why.

In terms of MR, the problem is that the red pill community says unpleasant things about women. These things may well be true, or at least illustrative of true trends even if they are over the top. It may well be another double standard that it's considered fine in polite company to comment on the ways in which men's mating behaviour is shallow and mean but it's unacceptable to turn the tables.

However, if I'm attempting to spread awareness of men's issues, help people to see past the usual blindspots, show both sides of the various ways in which genders are given opposite roles and attempt to plant the seeds of genuine concern for equality for everyone in a partisan gender feminist, it doesn't help to be associated with socially unacceptable statements about women's ways of being shallow and mean. Being put in the misogynist box is already the main risk.

father_figa · 2013-08-27T14:24:01+00:00

I was discussing with /u/TheZimmerman about this in a different topic. The Red Pill tends to attract people who are in a "woman hating phase", that spawned after feeling lied, cheated, manipulated and betrayed not by women, but what about what they were taught about women. I feel that there are interesting concepts behind the entire "swallowing the red pill" thing and that's why I think it should be just a phase.

You wake up, you realize women can be as nasty as men, you are bitter, bit angry, you learn what you have to learn, then you grow out of it and you move on to become a better person overall.

If you get stuck in there, you are going to accumulate bitterness inside and that leads to nowhere good. Happiness is hard to achieve when you're drowning in poison.

So, again, I think it's a needed phase, but that should be all, a phase.

Pecanpig · 2013-08-27T19:50:40+00:00

Because they're assholes, or at least that's my reason.

MockingDead · 2013-08-27T16:33:11+00:00

Everything that upsets MRAs about women is explained by TRP.

TRP embraces solutions, and does not ascribe morality to those solutions.

SarcastiCock · 2013-08-27T20:27:03+00:00

I think the general disagreement is that many MRA/MGTOW are celibates that don't approve of men seeking sexual intimacy with women.

This may be based on a complete rejection of women, jealousy or religious upbringing that requires celibacy outside of marrage.

barbadosslim · 2013-08-28T04:06:51+00:00

men's rights is generally a place to complain about women, feminism, or privilege loss

TRP is generally a place to come out and say that women are inferior

Title	Why is /r/mensrights so opposed to /r/theredpill?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	6
Comments	149
Date	August 27, 2013 12:28 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1l6lu4/why_is_rmensrights_so_opposed_to_rtheredpill/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-is-rmensrights-so-opposed-to-rtheredpill.1165361 https://theredarchive.com/post/1165361

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