This is me at the DC Slut Walk today. I was happy to see awareness of male rape represented and taken very seriously. A male survivor even gave a presentation and got a standing ovation. I didn't take these. Not sure who's. People just kept asking if they could take some of my statement.

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I don't think anyone has missed the point. It's great that the issue of male victims was highlighted and well accepted on this occasion, but overall many people are confused by the purpose of slut walks.
They can't raise awareness that rape is bad, that awareness is already strong.
They can't persuade rapists not to rape, that rot is too deep.
They can't change the law to make rape illegal, that law already exists.
If the point is simple community gathering to give moral support to victims, then it seems that would be a whole lot more affective if that were made clear.
You alluded yourself in another comment to the idea of slut walks being precipitated by one instance of 'victim blaming' in particular. (Canadian Constable Michael Sanguinetti advising students that "women should avoid dressing like sluts.") The idea of victim blaming (and slut walks) is tightly coupled with the notion of rape culture, a notion strongly rejected by many in this sub. Such statements as Sanguinetti's are grossly misguided and misinformed, but it's understandable where such notions come from. Similar preventative advice has been used in regard to other crime for as long as I can remember.
I'm disappointed that anyone would react to members of this sub questioning the purpose of a movement that largely seems to exist to perpetuate the myth of rape culture by painting such comments as 'anti anti rape'.

[–]tyciol 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The purpose of slut walks is supposed to be people baring skin to bring up the talking point of "no, wearing revealing fashions doesn't mean I consent for you to fuck me".

The problem some have with that I suppose is the assumption that this is a widespread attitude and paints this opinion on men.

It doesn't help that what it was done in response to was multifaceted advice (such as: don't walk home through dark alleys, don't get drunk around those you don't trust, lock your door, etc) about crime prevention and only the 'don't dress like X' part was focused on.

I think the problem here is "don't dress X" as advice is being unfairly marginalized. It can be good because it does feed into rationalizations rapists may have. It isn't a defense of the rationalization "that short skirt means she wants mine cock" to say "don't wear short skirts, some bozos rationalize that as a reason to rape you" simply recognition of the sad reality.

The problem seems to me that the slut walk is publically protesting something they view as system but which actually isn't as systemic as they think it is, they're treating the lowbrow opinions of rapist idiots as the opinions of those who recognize but do not endorse the dangers of those bozos.

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[–]tyciol 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

the myth that shirt skirts cause rape, and if women don't want to be raped they shouldn't wear short skirts".

You're exaggerating and strawmanning here. The attitude is more conservatively "some rapists react more to such clothing", a reality we acknowledge because some people do. No, the skirts don't cause rape (rapists do) but rapist mindsets can sometimes respond with 'she wants it' rationalizations when women bare skin.

This sub doesn't really know anything about "rape culture" in the first place

Actually we know lots about it, a more realistic viewpoint of REAL rape culture including many aspects feminism does not acknowledge.

generally rails against straw and hyperbolic versions of it

I am too ignorant to know whether I should call this hypocrisy or irony. Language-bros?

the level of knowledge mra's generaly have about it is very low.

Forgive me if I don't heavily weigh the analysis of someone who can't even MRAs properly.

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The attitude is more conservatively "some rapists react more to such clothing", a reality we acknowledge because some people do.

I actually don't think this is the case. "Stranger Danger" rapes are pretty rare, and women in revealing clothing aren't any more likely to be raped than anyone else. Actually, probably less - sexual confidence often seems to spook the predatory types. But if something does happen, a woman's clothing choice can be used up against her, and that's what people who go to slutwalks are protesting.

No, the skirts don't cause rape (rapists do) but rapist mindsets can sometimes respond with 'she wants it' rationalizations when women bare skin.

The real issue isn't even the rapist, it's the society's viewpoint. The incident that started this series of protests wasn't an example of someone with a rapist mindset. It was a person in authority espousing this strange piece of common wisdom, most likely in good faith. Most likely if all those other people didn't think this way, he rapist wouldn't have that justification (but rapists don't need any anyway).

[–]tyciol 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually don't think this is the case. "Stranger Danger" rapes are pretty rare

You're arguing a strawman off the bat here. What I said:

"some rapists react more to such clothing", a reality we acknowledge because some people do.

The nouns I used were 'rapists' and 'people', not 'strangers'. I don't know why you're making it exclusively about stranger danger when I did not specify that.

sexual confidence often seems to spook the predatory types.

As opposed to what other types? Non-predatorial rapists? Potentially oxymoronic here, what is left, accidental rapists?

The point still stands, if dressing exposing skin reduces rape chances instead of covering skin reducing it, then one or the other should be advocated for. I think either form can trigger different kinds of predators and I'm not clear on which one is more prevalent.

The real issue isn't even the rapist, it's the society's viewpoint. The incident that started this series of protests wasn't an example of someone with a rapist mindset. It was a person in authority espousing this strange piece of common wisdom, most likely in good faith.

'Espousing' as an afterthought, yet treated like his exclusive advice. This bias can be seen in Wikipedia:

The rallies began when Constable Michael Sanguinetti, a Toronto Police officer, suggested that to remain safe, "women should avoid dressing like sluts."

Yet consulting the references, or the internet in general, do we ever see the FULL quote? Why not? Probably because people want to change the context of his writing. The closest I can find is here when he says:

"You know, I think we're beating around the bush here," Michael Sanguinetti began, blandly enough, as he addressed the 10 students who turned up for the pep talk. Then he said: "I've been told I'm not supposed to say this – however, women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimised."

So what did he say prior to all this? What was all the other advice he was giving that was 'beating around the bush' ? Why is this never quoted?

Rebuttals have also been made about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk#Responses

if all those other people didn't think this way, he rapist wouldn't have that justification (but rapists don't need any anyway).

The error you're making here is thinking that a police warning somehow 'justifies' what a rapist does, but it doesn't. Leaving your door unlocked doesn't 'justify' a burglary.

[–]GimmeSomeSugar -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]tyciol 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I never said there is anything wrong with protesting the idea that a person's dress makes them more likely to be a victim.

There is something wrong with protesting the idea though, if the idea is valid, which it may be.

What's worth protesting isn't so much the idea, but rather, when the idea if given too much weight. If it actually was being treated as the sole variable (and I've never seen that done) it would be valid to protest the importance that consideration was given.

If people feel it's being given undue emphasis (something I can agree with, in some cases, but not all) then yeah, protest that.

The problem I have with these protests is they are worded in a way to strawman the opinions of those they protest. They speak as if skirt-concern is the only talking point people have on prevention advice, which is bullshit.

[–]Mytecacc 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]tyciol 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

the promotion of the idea that rape is failures on the part of victims to keep an anti rape schedule and uniform

Much of the point of it is to stop people framing rape as failures on the part of victims

The issue we take with this is it's bloody deluded.

People do not ever frame rape as solely a failure on the part of victims to make anti-rape efforts, not that I have ever seen. I have never seen people frame rape ONLY as a failure on the part of the victim.

Anyone protesting this is arguing someone imaginary. They can do it forever, because nobody is ever going to argue that side, it's a fantasy.

People do focus on crime preventions efforts by victims because that's an aspect we can choose to control. Victims have an interest in preventing their own rape. Rapists, on the other hand, have no interest in preventing the rapes they committ, because they want to do them.

Giving prevention advice, engaging in that line of discussion, it is NOT victim-blaming. It is not saying the rape is their fault. People who say that are skewing the words of others, claiming to read minds, and are basically batsy and engaging in a slew of cognitive distortions with how they interpret others.

This is all very confusing to mra's because they don't know what any of its really about.

We know damn straight what it's about, fuck off if you're going to keep assuming us ignorant.

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The only way rape is a gender issue is because women have had the privilege of legal protection and judicial remedy from the crime (when committed by a man), and the privilege of not receiving any punishment for raping others.

That and the fact that feminists have lied through their teeth to make it seem like a gender issue (just like they did with DV), that the fact that some women are raped is indicative of a culture that condones female rape and promotes violence against women.

No one is anti-anti-rape. Virtually every single person on earth is anti-rape (when the potential victim is female, and the potential perpetrator is male anyway), it's just idiotic chauvinists who feel the need to lie about there being a "rape culture" directed towards women, that push the idea that you need to be expressively anti-rape and make ridiculous and sexist assumptions and express them to the world.

As long as the narrative surrounding rape is gendered (that means as long as it is controlled by feminists) and they keep pushing inflated sexist statistics about prevalence and lying about public perception, I see no reason to not oppose these idiot groups.

Should I say we live in a murder culture just because some would suggest not wearing certain clothes or not walking through certain places alone at certain times of day to reduce the risk of being a homicide victim? Why aren't you anti-murder? I don't think you should be anti-anti-murder.

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That's not really the point. It wasn't like demanding a certain law reform from politicians or anything like that. It wasn't like "marching on the White House". That's just the city we live in. The cause, well, it's actually pretty ambiguous.

It started from standing up to the whole blaming rape victims for the way they dressed thing, and then it's also about how you shouldn't judge someone for the amount of sex they have and dehumanize promiscuous people. But it's also kind of about body and sexual acceptance. Fat people dressing sexy and skimpy, girls going out without a shirt, guys dressing "feminine", etc. It really just kind became a rally of acceptance and a place for people to talk about they're stories of recovery.

The male speaker seemed to get more emotion out of everyone. He broke into tears through his presentation, and people in the crowd cheered him on and yelled out comforting words. He really wanted to shed light on how male rape is often overlooked, and it actually seemed like all the feminists there were like "....duh male rape matters just as much". Other speakers would even apologize for addressing women directly as rape victims. It was pretty cool to see how level it all was.

There was some bull shit, but hardly any. One speaker said the whole "To the men who (make us live in this patriarchy blahblahblah bullshit)" As if it's only men who perpetuate gender stereotypes and oppression and not just closed minded people of both genders. (I've seen plenty of old timey misogynistic women, personally.) ....And also at a booth about street harassment, which I get is wrong, I had to stop because "saying something about a persons appearance that you dont know" was on the "NOT OK" list. So I brought up like "It's not wrong to tell someone, 'That's a nice shirt'". And they gave me the "Well, I think you should ask a woman how she feels." And i told them I wasn't bringing gender into it, and ironically some girls came up behind me to agree with me. Then the woman said, "It's not so black and white"....but i pointed out that it was black and white on here sheet. Ugh whatever. That was really the extent of the crap.

On the good side, people were very interested in hearing about progression such as making male rape a serious issue. The male speaker came up to talk to me because of my back, and then some other people gathered and we had a talk. And I guess that's what it was about. Social progression and preventing rape (from and for everyone).

[–]Landarchist 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tyciol 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

It started from standing up to the whole blaming rape victims for the way they dressed thing

Right, you mean the whole imaginary shit that doesn't happen?

it's also about how you shouldn't judge someone for the amount of sex they have

Which is stupid because you SHOULD judge people by their behaviours. It's just HOW we judge and WHAT we judge that matters and can be discussed.

and dehumanize promiscuous people.

That would be a fine thing to protest, if it was actually happening. I find the verb 'dehumanize' a bit extreme. Is there a more realistic way to describe the way in which promiscuous people are treated?

it's also kind of about body and sexual acceptance. Fat people dressing sexy and skimpy

As ugly as that might be, I am kind of for it if only because fat people really need to be able to stay cool. It sucks for those of us who have to look at them but it's in the better interest of public health if they are encouraged to move around more without having to worry about excessive overheating or sweating.

a place for people to talk about they're stories of recovery.

=/

it actually seemed like all the feminists there were like "....duh male rape matters just as much".

It seemed that way... hey maybe it was even genuine, you might have a good crowd. A lot of the time it doesn't seem like feminists think this though. If they did, so many of them would not be trying to get envelopment rape disqualified as rape, or ignoring that having a guy's baby if he doesn't want you to is also rape.

One speaker said the whole "To the men who (make us live in this patriarchy blahblahblah bullshit)" As if it's only men who perpetuate gender stereotypes and oppression and not just closed minded people of both genders.

Question: for all the feminists there who were all 'yeah, male rape matters to', how many of them protested this speaker's shit?

[–]TheFourthLittlePig[S] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

That's more than I feel like responding to after waking up, but I'll respond to the last one. No one stood up and shouted "FUCK YOU" but she didn't get the moving uplifted standing ovation everyone else did. I was saying stuff about how it was bullshit to other people though. Just because a whole separate protest didn't break out over one bad speaker doesn't take away merit from the original cause. Someone who's confused just gave a bad speech, and we moved on.

Oh also, slut shaming totally happens. And not just with women. I've been disrespected, ridiculed, and insulted for being too promiscuous when I was younger. So..I don't have much to say other than it's real and present and you're wrong. Even you did it yourself and said you should judge someone for their sex life. But I feel like that's bullshit. Someone can be a very ethical and productive person in society but still like to have sex with lots of people and their friends. Doesn't make anyone a bad person.

[–]tyciol 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

she didn't get the moving uplifted standing ovation everyone else did. I was saying stuff about how it was bullshit to other people though. Just because a whole separate protest didn't break out over one bad speaker doesn't take away merit from the original cause

Kinda does to me. All the lip service to the suffering of men seems half-assed if they're just going to stand by while misandrists co-opt their effort.

Consider all the booing that would occur if some guy stood up and blamed all the rape on women. Would people just 'move on' because it's merely a 'bad speech'?

Oh also, slut shaming totally happens. And not just with women. I've been disrespected, ridiculed, and insulted for being too promiscuous when I was younger.

I didn't say slut shaming, I said blaming rape victims for how they dress. They're 2 different things. You can shame someone for voluntarily engaging in promiscuity without saying rape is their fault for their clothing choices.

I don't have much to say other than it's real and present and you're wrong.

The strawman you made of me is wrong. What is your opinion about what I was actually quoting?

you did it yourself and said you should judge someone for their sex life

Yes, but judging someone based on their behaviour does NOT mean I blame them for being raped. I blame rapists for that. I don't particularly blame or shun promiscuous people, but I do form judgments about all people based on whatever information I know about them. What is the issue with judgement exactly?

What meanings are you drawing from the verb judge? It is assessment, thinking.

I feel like that's bullshit. Someone can be a very ethical and productive person in society but still like to have sex with lots of people and their friends. Doesn't make anyone a bad person.

Here's the problem: you're attaching arguments to my statement which I did not actually make. 'Judging' someone does not mean I am condemning them as "bad", it simply means I am forming an opinion of them. I don't think of people as non-productive or non-ethical based on thinking they have sex with multiple partners. What I will end up judging depends widely upon the nature of the people they've consorted with and my opinions of them, what was done, the context in which it was done, etc.

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Slutwalks may have toned down their message if this thread is any indication, but it was virulently anti-male from inception up until the last I heard of it. The whole basis of it is that one man in Canada said something risible about women, so all men have to be taught a lesson. The lesson has, and continues to be, entirely dubious.

"Objectification" is something that sociopathic rapists and serial killers do. It is a mental illness and it cannot be reformed. It is not something that men do to women on a general basis. Slutwalks exploits these negative stereotypes about men by seeking to shame male sexuality by presenting men with what these women believe turns men on while yelling at them for it. But the reality of male sexuality is that looks are not enough; a woman has to be attractive and show interest in that man. This is why slutwalks are hopelessly wrong in the entirety of their cause.

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When a judge speaks it's not just 'one man', it has the weight of the state behind it - which is why when someone in that position makes strongly objectionable statements it becomes a big deal. I don't think that the slut-walks are inherently anti-male, they are just a statement that as a society we view female clothing and sexuality in a conflicted and problematic fashion.

"Objectification" is something that sociopathic rapists and serial killers do. It is a mental illness and it cannot be reformed. It is not something that men do to women on a general basis.

That really depends on your definition of objectification. Personally, I think some amount of it is natural, inevitable, and not necessarily wrong. We objectify other people for the simple reason that it would require a tremendous amount of mental attention not to. Some people are benign about this, and some are total dicks. Ask someone in retail if they've ever felt objectified or treated as less than a person.

Slutwalks exploits these negative stereotypes about men by seeking to shame male sexuality by presenting men with what these women believe turns men on while yelling at them for it. But the reality of male sexuality is that looks are not enough; a woman has to be attractive and show interest in that man. This is why slutwalks are hopelessly wrong in the entirety of their cause.

Slutwalks are aimed at social mores in general - women are just as prone to slut shame as anyone else, and it's equally destructive when they do it. You seem to seriously miss the whole message in general - it's not about turning men on, it's about dressing up in ways that society deems 'slutty'. Those things are kind of related but not the same.

[–]dungone 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yet it was just some run of the mill cop, not a judge. Either way, you're special pleading. Even if it were a judge, you cannot use anecdotes to generalize about all men based on nothing more than conjecture and supposition.

That really depends on your definition of objectification.

I think it depends on reality. The feminist definition is based on something else called postmodernist deconstructionism. To that end, a retail worker's subjective experience only tells us about how they themselves felt, not about the psychological processes of the men they were interacting with. A very real psychological phenomenon is called projection and that, I assure you, gets a lot of men accused of a lot of things that otherwise shouldn't be taken any more seriously than this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICkWjdQuK7Q

it's not about turning men on

I never said any of them had ever turned anyone on. Perhaps some have. However, dressing slutty means dressing with the intent of turning men on, no matter who it is that is "slut shaming" them for it. That's what I said and that's what their attire is about.

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And I bet all you can do is give me anecdotal evidence for it. Wake me when any feminist activism and anti-rape organisations change their tune

Next time hold a sign that says "teach WOMEN not to rape MEN" and on the back quote the CDCs stats on how many women rape men they refuse to call rape and then video the reception you get.

If they accepted women can rape men they wouldn't keep saying rape is gendered violence against women and they wouldn't keep using statistics that exaggerate female victims and intentionally define rape as only something men do. Slut walkers especially wouldn't talk about women being raped drunk and not even ask if the man was drunk as well.

You give the quote about her saying "women we need to" and then stopped to change the address to be gender neutral. This is just about including male feminists and if it really isn't I'm going to need more evidence than your word. Every time someone has come here saying some feminist was being reasonable about this it turned out they were just idealistic and didnt know the stuff feminists say.

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The cop was wrong to say 'dress like sluts' (sluts can dress like nuns, go-go dancers can be virgins) but that didn't make his advice wrong.

Dressing in revealing clothing doesn't spontaneously cause you to be raped by the non-sentient forces of nature, but there are cognitive distortions present in the population (including rapists) which leads them to make assumptions (wrong ones) about people's motives and desires and consent on the basis of their clothing.

A rapist might think "they are dressing this way to invite sex, and must want it from me." Or they might think "they are dressing this way to excite me only to spurn me, that makes me mad, so I will punish them by raping them, JUSTICE".

These are good reasons to dress more conservatively to reduce the attentions of fucked up folk who might rape you for reasons like that. I won't say 'bad reasons' because that isn't necessary, since I can't think of any 'good reason' to rape.

Protesting the association between clothing and sexual habits is fine but has little to do with the idea that clothing choice can affect rape odds.

The Toronto police officer who gave this advice I'm pretty sure did not give JUST that advice. It was likely part of multifaceted suggestions, the rest of which got ignored and people are probably pretending as if that's all he said.

From what I've heard that was likely more of an afterthought.

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[–]dungone 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It seemed to me like you were saying that the ends justify the means. Who is screaming, though? Besides the slutwalkers? I made my comment above to point out that they are special pleading when they say that in this one case their calls for censorship are warranted, when in fact they get offended and call for censorship and violations of due process rights all over the place. It's their modus operandi, even in the course of polite discourse, to accuse people they disagree with of misogyny.

The way I look at it, it's just a question of fact. Does dressing like a slut increase your chances of being raped by a sociopath rapist who objectifies women's bodies and attire? Hurt feelings be damned, the way to respond to this is with a reasoned, factual argument. Instead they seem like they're not able to make up their minds between being angry that someone pointed out something they disagree with and being angry that it's true. They want to both censor people's speech as well as shame men until somehow, magically, mentally ill criminals no longer objectify people.

[–]tyciol 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

the point was that comments like that place the blame on the victim of an assault, which can imply a subtle approval for the attacker.

It's a bullshit "point" though, because those comments do NOT place blame and do not imply approval for attackers. That's imaginary bullshit. It's like saying that we give approval for house thieves if people don't lock their doors, or for murderers if people don't carry firearms to defend with.

If it is partly your fault for getting raped, then it is partly not the attacker's fault.

The problem here is that prevention advice is not about shifting fault, but of opposing the efforts and psychology of aggressors.

If a man takes a self defense class, he isn't viewing it as his fault for lacking those skills to prevent earlier victimization, he's simply making efforts to oppose it in the future.

The shifting of fault is feminist BS invention and should stop. It's cognitively distorted attempts at mind-reading by mis-paraphrasing others' words.

it would be like the police chief telling men that they should stop buying drinks for women in bars if they did not want to be charged with rape later on.

That might be interpreted as blaming, but looking at it literally, it is not. It's sensible advice recognizing how unethically people work in the real world.

in public speaking you cannot address things in the way you would to a friend.

Why not? This guy did, and he probably did it as an afterthought after giving better more sensible and pertininent advice, but naturally the media ignored the good shit and zero'd in on the offensive shit.

I disagree with the 'sluts dress like X' shit but that's a problem with how he phrases things, not the advice of covering up to not incite the attention of monsters.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]tyciol 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

studies of rapists suggest that victim attire is not a significant factor

Yet not a non-factor. Being an insignificant factor means you shouldn't prioritize the advice, it doesn't mean you should never give the advice so long as other more important advice is prioritized.

rapists look for signs of passiveness and submissiveness, which, studies suggest, are more likely to coincide with more body-concealing clothing.

If this is the tendency then certainly other forms of advice should be the priority, but I still think there is a type who think "cleavage, I'll punish the sloot for giving me a harbl" and would react to more revealing clothing.

If what you quote is the truth, then how come feminists aren't giving opposite advice? Why not "girls, expose your cleavage, it shows confidence which will scare away the rapists!" instead?

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I spoke to a bunch of people, girls and guys, in their teens to pretty old. Just walking around people would say they liked my back or ask to take pictures. A lot of the time they would ask, "So is that to shed light on male victims?", and I would reply "Well, yeah, but also female perpetrators. It's to say that each side of rape can be guys or girls. A lot of people overlook that." Not once did anyone debate that or give me any negative reaction at all. And some people even thanked me. And like I said in a previous comment, the speaker that got the biggest reaction was speaking about his girlfriend and teachers abusing him and how female on male rape is widely overlooked and just accepted, but it's not ok. It's just as wrong. And when he finished, not one person there didn't stand up off the ground to cheer and clap, even all the feminists who actually did have very anti male signs "Teach your sons not to rape women."...Yeah there definitely were a few signs like that, but only a few and even they supported that guy and his cause. And no one had anything negative to say about me. My girlfriend who attended with me was telling me how when I wasn't around she could hear people talking about how they thought my sign was pretty cool.

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Yes, I think it's a very serious thing to consider. It's not our job to save feminism from itself. No reason to lend them a male voice whenever it suits them only to have them turn around and demonize men whenever it doesn't. Think about the feminist reaction in Toronto when speakers were brought in by a men's rights organization to talk about essentially the same thing. Think about the reactions to the "Don't Be That Girl" parody. Slut Walks, on the other hand, appear to have lost their initial momentum. Why give them that added Social Justice Warrior cred that they so desperately need to stay afloat?

In 2011, they had Hugo Schwyzer ~~speaking~~ projecting onto men at their Slut Walks. Here's AVfM's observations about the far smaller and toned down atmosphere of last year's Slut Walks: http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/slut-walk-2012-still-stupid-but-smaller/ After 3 short years of major embarrassments and dwindling support, they're trying to save face. That's all this is. This is their way of claiming that feminism (via Slut Walks) is not and has never been sexist and extreme, all the while claiming that the MRM always has been and still is.

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[–]tyciol 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

you HAVE to acknowlege that penetration would physically hurt MORE than women-on-man "rape"

No... I don't have to acknowledge that at all, because it sounds like bullshit to me.

you're getting something THRUST into you

Fun fact: jamming your penis into a too-small hole (during which, if weight is being put on it, it might bend and suffer structural damage) isn't all that comfortable either.

they won't experience the pain of having something thrust into them like female rape victims

Well ignoring that sometimes females will thrust things into men (a q-tip up the urethra, a dildo up the ass) you could equally say that female rape victims won't experience the pain of having something delicate of theirs thrust into a tight spot.

Ever had your finger pinched in a doorcrack or anything like that? Stuff like that, princess.

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