Why Men Need Women

dungone · 2013-07-22T13:37:22+00:00

So basically, men need women so they can convince us to give our money away?

jeanralph · 2013-07-22T15:37:12+00:00

Quote straight from the article:

"the psychologist Roy Baumeister asked, “Is there anything good about men?” (The short answer, if you haven’t read “Demonic Males,” by Dale Peterson and Richard Wrangham, is not much.)"

This casually sexist crap is printed in one of the most respected newspapers of the U.S, a medium that is influential way beyond America's borders (as a European I can assure you that when some idiot claims 'I saw it in the NYT/Herald Tribune' most people assume he means business).

And nobody bats an eye.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-07-22T14:03:10+00:00

Interesting that they're defining what's best for men by their utility to others.

Men don't need women because women make men happy (according to this article) men need women because men with women make other people happy.

Also, if this is legitimate and men act differently when they have a wife/daughter due to feeling protective of her wouldn't that be due to patriarchal feelings that we should be working to eliminate rather than celebrating?

philosarapter · 2013-07-22T15:18:03+00:00

Wait. So men who have daughters are more generous and more liberal?

Men have had daughters throughout history. Is the article suggesting the men of the last couple of generations are different? Because if not, uh, that doesn't exactly bode well for the 'patriarchy' thing, as you'd expect a cumulative effect of some sort with each successive generation. Or is every man just born at a default level of 'miserly' and shittiness?

lazlounderhill · 2013-07-22T15:37:55+00:00

So we need women to remind us to sacrifice ourselves for the benefit of others while simultaneously taking complete responsibility for all the "bad" stuff in the world and thereby villainized while making damn sure to keep our collective mouths shut, lest we be deemed emasculate. That's shaping up to be the contemporary definition of a "good man" and I have to say, it doesn't appeal to me in the least. No thanks. I'll pass. MGTOW.

You know what this is? It's giving gold digging whores a moral "pass" by calling this dubious female charitable influence "altruism". I'm not buying it. Some of the stingiest people I have ever known in my life were women - it's easy to be charitable with someone else's money.

2013-07-22T14:56:43+00:00

I missed the part where they studied the effect of men on women's ability of giving. Is this because it would somehow occur that women need men?

Lonemango · 2013-07-22T17:22:49+00:00

Actually, this study goes along with the notion of male disposability quite nicely, athough its conclusion is utter nonsense. Having a daughter or a sister, causes the male to empathize more, this makes perfect sense. Not because the females behavior " rubs off" as the article puts it, but because the male now focuses on the needs and wants of the female, as opposed to his own. Once you begin focusing on anothers desires, it makes sense that that behavior transfers to other people.

jabberwockysuperfly · 2013-07-22T22:17:43+00:00

This article seems to be more about why women need men. The upshot is that without women, men keep more of the products of their own work. I fail to see how that is so bad for men. I can certainly see why women don't like that state of affairs.

dungone · 2013-07-22T15:10:09+00:00

Consider these other observations about parenting:

Mothers prefer daughters more often than not.
Parents are actually more generous and caring to their daughters than to their sons.

My speculation is that this phenomenon reflects on transnational relationships with women and that the extra money that wealthy men cling to isn't going to their sons but to keep their wives happy.

The answer could be the complete opposite - women need daughters in order to be charitable. But when they do get daughters, there may be hell to pay for the father: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/daughters-breed-divorce-boys-blessing-daughters-curse/story?id=11804444

Cthulusbaby · 2013-07-22T13:05:36+00:00

Men need women and women need men. We're all one species. Only a balance in power and responsibility will lead to a progressive and fruitful society.

avantvernacular · 2013-07-22T19:03:14+00:00

Men need women to constantly remind them how unneeded they are, lest they start having positive thoughts about themselves.

EvilPundit · 2013-07-22T15:21:11+00:00

Some thoughts on this from Glenn Reynolds.

bobafett-survived · 2013-07-23T02:20:53+00:00

My father, who's in his 60s and still active in business, notices his friends behaved differently, depending on whether they had sons to take over their business or not.

His friends who has all daughters, they don't show any type of ambition or drive. They're happy to retire and just enjoy life.

However, his friends who has sons to take over their business, he sees more activity and involvement in the day-to-day business decisions.

He speculates that his friends with all daughters, their family line will die with them. So there's no reason to stress yourself or make your life difficult. However, with sons, their family line continues and the men can pass along their legacy.

Perhaps another reason CEOs conserve more of their resources for sons is they want to ensure their success and pass on the family name and legacy...

Just a thought.

MFreak · 2013-07-22T15:35:30+00:00

Am I the only one without a lot of women in his life who actually enjoys being charitable for it's own sake? In fact, the more close male friends I've made, the more giving I've become. I don't even view it as a gender thing. I just think that I've matured to the point where I realize the needs of others in comparison to those of my own.

guisar · 2013-07-22T16:34:29+00:00

Having just read the article about Chuck Feeney, I thought hmmmm....

noodleworm · 2013-07-22T19:38:53+00:00

I did see a documentary on the role of fathers once, that explain that long term relationships, and having children causes men's testosterone levels to drop. I think it makes sense. In some ways the article is like its talking about changing men against their will. I'd look at it more biologically. Men adapt to families. Our testosterone drops to help us be patient and more gentle with kids.

In a way you could say it it shows that the whole "women are better with children, men can't be trusted" thing is bullshit. We adapt and make perfectly suitable parents.

I don't have an issue with the science, it basically just says we can get on fine with women if we're use to being around them.

linearThinker · 2013-07-23T09:41:05+00:00

Or maybe women only marry men who tend to spend.

timdesuyo · 2013-07-22T14:14:59+00:00

snerk

automatopeapod · 2013-07-22T16:20:58+00:00

A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. The reverse is also true.

HalfysReddit · 2013-07-22T13:53:48+00:00

Nobody needs anything inherently. You're quite welcome to just keel over and die of dehydration - that's entirely your right as a being of self agency.

MRB2012 · 2013-07-22T19:46:05+00:00

WHAT makes some men miserly and others generous? What motivated Bill Gates, for example, to make more than $28 billion in philanthropic gifts while many of his billionaire peers kept relatively tightfisted control over their personal fortunes?

Why should Bill Gates care about $28 billion? He's the richest guy alive. He has literally no one left to impress. The other billionaires are still competing with each other to see who can make the most money. Bill Gates won that game a long time ago. He's got 66 billion according to Forbes. The next guy, Warren Buffet, has 46. He's got 20 billion more than the next guy in line. He's got no one left to compete with. He dominates moneymaking like Genghis Khan dominated war.

In a provocative 2007 presentation in San Francisco, the psychologist Roy Baumeister asked, “Is there anything good about men?” (The short answer, if you haven’t read “Demonic Males,” by Dale Peterson and Richard Wrangham, is not much.)

Bullshit. Complete and total bullshit.

It’s often said that behind every great man stands a great woman.

Which is a lie. Behind every great man stands other great men. Or, as Newton put it, one only sees far by standing on the shoulders of giants.

ultratarox · 2013-07-22T19:50:21+00:00

Look, I think that - to some extent - there's something reasonable this article has to say: some research has suggested that living with women influences some men to be more giving.

There are just so many things not being said, or assumed, and that's what's frustrating.

First off, the title is lopsided - men need women. I can accept that, if there's some mention of women needing men. We're two facets of the same species, the genders (very broadly speaking here) tend toward different emotions and personality types, etc. - we're different, and we learn from each other.

But this article makes one point - men would be stingy and selfish if it weren't for the women in their lives convincing them to be more feminine. I can concede that perhaps some research may have suggested this, but it doesn't account for plenty of men just being stingy and greed, and no amount of women in their lives are going to counteract that innate greed. It also assumes that being giving is a feminine quality that rubs off on men. This harkens back to the standard gender stereotypes about men being agressive and domineering, and women being gentle and giving.

But wait, haven't we always been told that feminism is against these old tropes, these tools of the "patriarchy" that keep the woman down?

I'm willing to concede that some men tend more towards the masculine stereotypes and some women tend towards the feminie stereotypes (so I'm auto-disqualified from being a feminist). But being a giving or nurturing man doesn't make me feminine, and the women in my life also shouldn't get credit for my (possibly) innate tendency towards being generous. She should get credit for what she does - it is not enough for a woman to live a passive life, leeching off of the achievements of someone else.

People blast the MRM, but I want women to be judged for their own virtues and vices, and I want men to be judged for their own virtues and vices. Classical feminism has done a lot for all of us by helping women towards equality - perhaps there is still a way to go. But as an MRA I think that men still have a way to go on other issues - and being perceived as greedy, or slovenly, or like a neanderthal stands in the way of men who would otherwise stand in solidarity with women who want to tackle the issues they face.

We have to stop these one-sided ways of treating the sexes and treat people as people.

Title	Why Men Need Women
Author	XDingoX83
Upvotes	69
Comments	64
Date	July 22, 2013 12:27 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1it3ku/why_men_need_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-men-need-women.1168208 https://theredarchive.com/post/1168208

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