What is hypergamy?

Anxious_Adult123 · 2023-06-03T06:06:45+00:00

I think hypergamy exist for both men and women in their own regard, but it's more extensively discussed with respect to women than men.

Men tend to marry younger and comparatively more good looking women.

Men prefer women with better personality than what they are!

And yes, women tent to prefer dudes that are taller than them. But in reality, a good proportion of women does care about height if the difference is extreme. Just as they are disgusted about dating a guy with is a foot smaller than them, most women, in my experience have reservations regarding dating/marrying someone with whom the height difference is stark.

And this so-called gap with respect to social status in female hypergamy is often blown out of proportion, citing less common examples of some rich athlete who married some broke saleswoman. Most of times, men marry down their socioeconomic strata but the gap is not that pronounced.

In my community (SE Asia) for eg: it is rare for a female doc to marry a male nurse. But it is equally rare for a male doc to marry a female nurse. Even when they marry in similar fashion, the female nurse is usually a govt. employee (meaning better pay and work life balance along with other perks). So in a way, the gap in not that pronounced. And the story is not different for other careers. Majority of middle class men don't prefer marrying someone broke bartender with tons of student loan debt.

Any yes, with this, I am not denying that extremely hypergamous women doesn't exist. There are broke average looking delusional women without any personality or intelligence running behind men with the so-called three 6s, but that's mainly a minority in the west and the affluent parts of the east. And the concept that guys would fuck any women is also true for casual flings and ONS. Men when it comes to marraige or serious LTRs are more or less hypergamous as women but it a different perspective.

q_dice · 2023-06-03T05:17:38+00:00

I in all sincerity believe the idea of marrying up, but women aren’t gonna do it nearly at a high a clip as some would lead you to believe. Partially because it is insane to base your entire romantic life on it. I believe there was a question here about the random insta model getting flown out to Abu Dhabi, but I mentioned u see on Reddit all the time of ppl getting ditched in different states, u would b insane to do it, or fucking desperate.

Ofc some women will do it, most will think it is some kind of scam, cuz y wouldn’t u?

A woman who thinks she deserves stuff for being a woman, any dude with money ain’t gonna meet her and if he does more than likely ain’t gonna marry her.

I would b a fool to not acknowledge these crazy women who try to get pregnant by athletes, those ladies are insane and just manipulative to no end. Idk anyone hoping for those ladies to get their man, cuz at that point u r rooting for a woman using a child as a plot device.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-06-03T06:24:18+00:00

Hypergamy is a real thing. Success is attractive.

Just like most men would agree that they wouldnt say no to Angelina Jolie. Most men do not marry professionally beautiful women.

Similarly, most women marry within their own soci-economical class. Infact...Analysis of cohort data sets since 1958 shows a decline in women 'marrying up'There has been a small increase in women 'marrying down' over the same period.More women now 'marry down' than 'marry up'.

Among women born in 1958

39% had a partner in the same social class
38% married into a higher social class
23% had partners from a lower social class.

For the 1970 cohort,

45% married within the same social class
32% married into a higher social class
23% married into a lower social class.

In the most recent generation analyzed (born between 1976-1981)

56% married partners within the same social class
16% married into a higher social class
28% married partners from a lower social class.

study: https://www.oecd.org/social/soc/49499779.pdf

Research published in 2019 found that most people tend to choose partners who are similar to them, a pattern called “assortative mating”

study: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190212160010.htm?fbclid=IwAR05A_8rjOEmEnQT49XGTAUvdPb5V2Itku9M8Yy93obSmTTXu47b1E5jsys

So, I really don't know where. this panic in male online communities about a hypergamy epidemic comes from. Perhaps its just a convenient way of avoiding having to address personal issues?

KikiYuyu · 2023-06-03T09:21:07+00:00

It's so stupid to treat it like it's some unique biological phenomenon. Many people desire the "best" things they can get in life. Opportunists exist in both sexes, so naturally there are women who will use sex to get what they want.

But lonely, terminally online dudes are committed to treating women like unknowable aliens, so they interpret marrying up as "oh women only get wet for Chad" "women are literally horny for money"

No, some women are just shallow enough to marry a guy to get some fancy shit.

I 100% guarantee you that if women were as needy for sex as men, there would be tons of opportunistic men doing the exact same thing.

badgersonice · 2023-06-03T12:09:38+00:00

Red pills views say a lot more about red pill men and their beliefs than they say about women.

For red pill men, their version of hypergamy is a reflection of their desire for a woman to “look up” to him in respect and admiration, to defer to his judgement, to be “submissive” to his will and his goals in life, and to reshape herself to conform to his life.

In contrast, they view the all the feminine traits that they desire as beneath them, as things they are unfortunately biologically cursed to desire sexually but that they do not respect or value. And they offer little more to the woman than condescension.

To be clear, this is not all men, but it is most red pill men.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-06-03T07:39:59+00:00

Another unique aspect of female sexual selection has to do with their orientation towards male 'TOPness'. I'm not sure if I would categorize this under hypergamy per se, but it is clearly adjacent.

Absolute value in the mating criteria both genders care about is hard to determine without reference. So both genders do compare prospective mates, ranking them in the relevant criteria. This helps inform the absolute value we might ascribe to someone's beauty, fertility, charisma, etc. Such comparisons also help us calibrate whether we are getting the best deal we can expect considering our own value.

Furthermore, even for women, status positions can provide instrumental advantages in the mating game. Women of higher status, or higher standing in their local FSM, can better deploy such tools as reputation destruction to undermine competitors. Even a woman's wealth and power can be attractive to a male, even if not directly sexually.

All this is true the other way around, with respect to male status, etc. However, what is different is the way that women are directly sexually attracted to the very fact of a man's dominance over other men. Not just to help calibrate his innate value. The very fact of his superior position is in and of itself sexually attractive. Men don't think the same way about women.

Freethinker312 · 2023-06-03T12:23:56+00:00

Well, indeed, what is "hypergamy"? I know the original definition had not to do with height, but let's take this as an example. Men on average are 7% taller than women (differs however per country). So, is a woman hypergamous for just prefering her male partner to be taller than that she is? Or are women hypergamous if they prefer a man who is more than 7% taller than them, and not if they are fine with a man who is no more than 7% taller than them? (or another percentage, depending on the country)

A lot of men prefer a woman who is shorter than themselves. Does that make men hypergamous? Are women more hypergamous for prefering the same situation (male partner taller than female partner) than men? Or are women more hypergamous, when they prefer a bigger height gap than men? Or is being tall just objectively better, for both men and women? (For example, most female models are taller than the average woman.) If that is true, are men really less hypergamous than women if they prefer a smaller height gap than women? Because in that case, men need to make a balance between the woman being tall, and the woman being smaller than him, wheres women don't have to balance this and can just prefer him being tall. How do we define hypergamy in this regard?

Some of these questions can also be asked with regards to physical strength, resources and status. If men on average are stronger than women, are women really hypergamous to prefer a man stronger than themselves? If men are biological on average better than women in some regards, are women hypergamous for wanting a man anyway? If men (at least historically) have more resources and status than women, are women really hypergamous for prefering a man with more resources and status than themselves? If women are really extremely or infinitely hypergamous, why is there an increasing percentage of married couples with relatively small or no income difference and an increasing percentage in with the wife earns more than her husband? https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/04/13/in-a-growing-share-of-u-s-marriages-husbands-and-wives-earn-about-the-same/ Doesn't this show that there is a correlation between the position of women in society and female hypergamy?

Also, is "hypergamy" really only female biology? Historically and even nowadays in some regions, a lot of women cannot freely choose who they marry, but are married off by their family. In those societies, how many fathers or other family members would accept a broke man or a man of a much lower class as a husband for their daughter, sister or female cousin? And are they just as opposed to their son, brother or male cousin marrying a broke or low class woman? Women are more often killed (honor killings) by their families for marrying or being close to a low status man, than men for being together with a low status woman. So do (male) family members have a hypergamous nature for their female members? In Islam muslim men are allowed to marry non-muslim women, but muslim women are not allowed to marry non-muslim men. Is it because by allowing women but not men to enter your group, men within the group are more likely to get women? So is a factor in hypergamy that powerful/higher status men have an interest in female hypergamy, and that men in general have an interest in women entering their group, but not in men entering their group?

Also, there is probably another factor, namely that stereotypical male contributions are more measurable and thus more prone to competition than stereotypical female contributions. Salary, resources and physical strength are easier to quantify than giving birth, breastfeeding, raising children and being nuturing. And somehow people in the manosphere don't take age and female fertility window and reproductive costs into account when they talk about "hypergamy". If men are on average older than their female partners and their female partners have a higher costs of reproduction, it is not really surprising if men on average are further in their careers/earning more than their female partners. In case a young, fertile woman marries an old, rich man, has she got a better deal than him? Is he altruistic for marrying a young fertile woman? If for him it is not a worse deal than for her, why is it considered hypergamy on the woman's part, but not hypergamy on the man's part? Are men's contributions just considered more valuable in our society than women's contributions?

Windmill_flowers · 2023-06-03T05:25:02+00:00

My understanding is that it's the GENERAL tendency for women to want to date a man who is equal to herself or better in the following categories

Smarts and Education
Salary
Status
Physically strength
Height

Most women are willing to give and take in a couple different areas but rarely all of them at the same time.

If she is taller, stronger, has a higher status than him, earns more, is smarter and better educated than he is... I'd say it's probably unlikely she'd seriously consider dating him long term. Not impossible, but unlikely. I don't know if the same can be said for men

Lolabird2112 · 2023-06-03T11:47:57+00:00

You can’t really talk about “evolved instinct” without talking about millennia of women being restricted. For most of human history, women have been forbidden to work, not permitted to own property, not able to pass on inheritance etc etc.

You also can’t just talk about hypergamy without discussing the very real hypOgamy of males when it comes to feeling threatened by a woman being your equal or better in what has been - also historically - the male role of “provider”.

The more conservative you are (which is most of TRP with their obsession about being “leaders”), the more your masculinity is threatened when a woman brings home more than 40% of the income. Women DO NOT have the same reaction to this as men do, which tells me, if anything, it’s women conforming for the sake of masculine fragility, rather than purposely searching for a higher earner.

AnIndependenFuel · 2023-06-03T05:15:23+00:00

by definition, its date/marry up in money, status...but now its date up in looks(include age),

you can take Britney as example, his boyfriend is almost "broke" and younger than her

purplish_possum · 2023-06-03T06:27:01+00:00

Few people have a problem with women striking their best deal. The problem is when they remain open to an upgrade.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-06-03T09:59:32+00:00

the RED PILL concept of hypergamy is that it is female sexual nature to be oriented towards ONE potentially ever-changing "top male" at time. this is what can lead to branch swinging. it is a form of attraction that leads to SERIAL monogamy, as opposed to male polygamy, men wanting multiple attractive partners at the same time

anyone in this thread who tells you different is wrong. it came from devlins sexual utopia in power

wtknight · 2023-06-03T05:18:37+00:00

In evolutionary terms, hypergamy is women's instinctual attempt to both find a man who will a) protect and help provide for her and her offspring and b) help produce sons who will also be attractive enough to spread her genes to future generations with many women (the sexy son hypothesis).

Because of these two evolutionary principles, women do not just choose any man to be attracted to. A man who has both good genes and good provisioning ability is ideal. One with just good genes is next best, and one who can provide but whom she is not attracted to because she judges that his genes are poor is the worst of the three options.

Because of the high cost of pregnancy, women therefore aren't attracted to men who can't protect her and who don't have good genes. This is "Red Pill hypergamy". Hypergamy as a concept in general also extends to the provisioning portion, but this is not how Red Pill talks about hypergamy, because their concern is women being sexually attracted to them, as they believe that women do not provide quality sex to the men whom they only see as providers and that these women are likely to dead bedroom, branch swing, cheat on, and even cuckold these men with children who are not their own.

So, in essense, hypergamy is the idea that women aren't attracted to just any man because he is sexually available, as men are to women unless the woman actually repulses him. Women are the ones concerned the most about the welfare of their offspring and ensuring that their sons are "sexy". Men, on the other hand, while often selecting a primary partner's offspring to provide most of his support to, are polygynous rather than hypergamous, and therefore are able to produce offspring that they might not care much enough about to provide for. This behavior likely evolved as it was helpful in preventing population bottlenecks in the past.

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-06-03T06:22:50+00:00

Too many very specific conclusions about female biology have been drawn

I’m a proponent for simplifying things. If the trait, occurrence, pattern or whatever framework you want to use to describe it, is;

near universal

That’s all that’s necessary. Not even the cause is relevant. Nature. Nurture. In context to TRP; the only thing that matters; is what one does with the information.

Godspeed and good luck!

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2023-06-03T07:10:08+00:00

Hypergamy in the traditional sense is basically dating across and preferably up in socioeconomic status, which essentially is money and social standing. It has nothing to do with things like looks, intelligence or character/personality.

However, in reality, I think the true answer is more complicated than that. And here is my hypothesis. Women biologically primarily try to secure a mate for security and provision, which will ensure the survival of both her and the offspring. I hypothesize that there are two different types of value here, "potential/perceived value" and "proven value".

Proven value is very easy to determine. If a man for example has lambos, mansions, money, big network, good reputation, high social standing, it's pretty clear to discern that he can offer provision and security, and is high status. Usually older men score higher in proven value, due to the extra years of experience and work.

Potential/perceived value is rooted more in biology, mostly physical traits, but also personality/intelligence. It's basically how young women instinctually determine whether a young guy will make it or not in the future. A guy who is bigger, taller and fitter, obviously has higher ability to secure resources, whether it's hunting animals or climbing up a tree to get the bananas. A guy who is bigger, taller and fitter, obviously has higher ability to be able to protect the woman and her offspring from other people or animals. Not only that, but his size alone also makes him more likely to assume leadership position and high status within a group. For example, there are two guys, one tall big muscular guy and one short skinny guy. Every single man in the group instinctually knows that when shit hits the fan, he'd prefer it if he is behind the big guy instead of the small guy. A big fit man is instantly perceived by everyone as more competent. And it doesn't stop there. A well developed symmetrical face, whose features tends to be more on the masculine side, but not on the extremely masculine side, is preferred. Basically a face that looks aggressive, but still looks trustworthy. A face that looks aggressive thus can potentially intimidate and show competence, but it can still be trusted, whether by the woman herself, or by other males in the group. Being seen as aggressive/competent and trustworthy simultaneously makes a man more likely to ascend in status within the group. It's why most politicians are clean shaved, so that they appear more trustworthy. Being seen as a "killer" won't help you gain the most followers, it will most likely work in the opposite direction. Being seen as a "gentle killer" however will gain you the most followers. The same exact thing applies to personalitiy and intelligence, it's why women are attracted to confident extroverted intelligent guys. Being confident, maybe even arrogant to some extent, and extroverted helps a man attain status within a group, to gain more followers, thus have more reach and power. All those things will benefit the woman and her offspring as well. An intelligent man, or more specifically a cunning man(which basically ties to the whole darktriad thing), not only has increased ability to solve problems, but also increased ability to manipulate people and make them do his bidding in a way, and ascend in status. What's better than one very competent soldier? One thousand soldiers, even if they are far less trained! So the tl;dr version is that when a woman interacts with a guy, it doesn't take a lot of time for her to subconsciously judge whether this man will likely make it or not in the future and attain high status and resources, so that her and her offsprings can benefit from it and survive. "Attraction" or "desire" is basically her subconsciously determining that the chances of all that is high, and thus wanting to copulate with the guy.

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screechingfeminazi · 2023-06-03T13:14:53+00:00

I think women are drawn to status in a broad sense, but how we measure that varies both by individuals and by subculture.

Take the classic example of a guy in a bar throwing money around like confetti. That behavior could be interpreted as high status (he's showing that he has resources to burn, his body language is likely very open and confident, he's the center of attention) or low status (he's showing poor self control and judgment, he's giving stuff to strangers who aren't reciprocating, as the evening progresses he starts slurring his words.)

Different women are going to have different visceral responses to that behavior, not because status is completely irrelevant, but because we've got different ideas of what "high status" looks like.

For me a guy playing the guitar well is hot.

That likely has to do with the fact that I grew up around musicians. For one thing, I can tell the difference between strumming a few chords and really rocking out, even though I don't play myself.

Maybe more important, I saw guys who were really good getting a lot of respect from the people around them. They were high status when I was figuring out my taste in men and that stuck with me. A woman without those experiences might just see a broke guy paying way too much attention to a piece of wood.

So, yeah, I don't think the redpill idea that status matters is wrong per se, but I think they over simplify it a lot.

And of course "status matters for attraction" is not at all the same as "women are incapable of love and will ditch their man in a second if a higher status guy comes along."

Hope that makes sense, I'm tired and possibly babbling.

itdoesnotmatterlolol · 2023-06-04T18:06:54+00:00

Hypergamy is well studied in psychology. It is a fact of life. You insinuate it's not been proven, did you even look?

Scandi_Navy · 2023-06-07T19:46:23+00:00

Because men are not guaranteed to be the biological parent, unlike women. It is beneficial to men if he is her best option, and she thus doesn't cheat.

And for women, they have to be able to rely on help getting additional resources and food during pregnancy.

It's preference that became hardwired due to physical differences.

It benefits both. Well.. until women out earn men.

Title	What is hypergamy?
Author	WilliamWyattD
Upvotes	9
Comments	61
Date	June 3, 2023 4:49 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13z16fz/what_is_hypergamy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-hypergamy.1221134 https://theredarchive.com/post/1221134

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