Don't you think that the feminist concept of objectification is very problematic?

BKEnjoyerV2 · 2023-08-08T18:47:06+00:00

I remember reading this whole infographic that was about it being okay for women to be sexual but not to be sexualized, that makes little sense to me, isn’t the purpose of being sexual to be sexualized?

hottake_toothache · 2023-08-08T18:56:28+00:00

I've been told by one feminist woman that because I feel attracted to women on the street whom I don't know, it means I'm a potential rapist.

That's a good example of how crazy that belief system is.

Karmaze · 2023-08-08T20:50:29+00:00

Just to make it clear, I'd actually argue that Nussbaum's original article on objectification is one of the better social science works out there. It's nuanced, couches its ideas, is somewhat non-partisan, and really not that judgmental.

Sexual objectification as a concept came after that.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-08-08T19:06:12+00:00

This feminist is a bigot who certainly does not have a problem leering at men and wanting sex from men she finds attractive. Feminists openly glorify women's sexuality. Unfortunately, now we do not have the sexually empowered women of yesterday, but entitled snowflakes who think only they are entitled to want sex, and men need to ask for permission before finding someone attractive. Fuck her and fuck what she stands for.

MachoManShark · 2023-08-08T21:36:27+00:00

yeah, i don't really think objectification is a real thing for the overwhelming majority of men.

the whole premise of the thing is that men are less sensitive to the feelings, and therefore boundaries, of women they're attracted to, which i've never seen any evidence for.

in my experience, men tend to be more attentive to the moods and desires of the women they're attracted to than they are to basically anyone else. further, it is quite rare for a woman to take on the 'masculine' role in dating and do the asking out. i conjecture that this is because women know full well that men are sensitive to women, and they can more or less get their desires met without risking the emotional vulnerability that comes with making your desires known openly.

i think that if the feminist narrative of objectification were true, women would, by and large, not be interested in the passive role, and instead opt to be the more aggressive party in order to increase the odds that sexual encounters occur on their terms, rather than the man's.

or maybe i'm just an asshole who doesn't think about sex like a normal person and nobody does these sorts of subconscious calculations and they all act on some instinct, idk.

also, a semi-related thought just came to me regarding entitlement, which is another word folks use regarding male sexuality. expecting someone else to pursue you is more of an entitled mindset than expecting someone to respond positively to your advances, the latter only has a more noticable impact.

i've had a these ideas kinda floating around half-formed in my head for a couple years now, but this is the first time i've really organized and expressed them, so apologies if they're stupid.

CzechoslovakianJesus · 2023-08-08T19:36:33+00:00

With feminists, their most consistent position on sexuality is "tall, rich, handsome men should be attracted to me, and nobody else should have sexual thoughts under any circumstance under pain of death."

TheSpaceDuck · 2023-08-08T22:08:30+00:00

I've been told by one feminist woman that because I feel attracted to women on the street whom I don't know, it means I'm a potential rapist.

Not surprised. Nobody would believe feeling attracted to you equals wanting to rape you unless that is how they themselves think. And this is sadly not an uncommon display of projection when it comes to feminists.

frackingfaxer · 2023-08-09T04:13:41+00:00

This is a complicated issue. The short answer is yes.

What you and I would consider normal male sexuality is, in the eyes of many feminists, abnormal and problematic. It only appears normal, when it is in fact a social construct of male supremacy. The task of the feminist ideologue is therefore to problematize normality, supposedly to reveal the truth that the patriarchy has concealed. So where we see attraction, they see objectification. Where we see flirtation, they see harassment. Where we see sex, they see rape.

Now, of course, I don't believe such a view of sexuality actually reveals any hidden truths. Rather, it allows people to elevate their personal feelings about sex to the status of objective truth. The fact that said feelings are not shared by the vast majority of people is just proof of how right you are and how pernicious and pervasive the patriarchy is. My guess is that was what was going on with this feminist you describe.

Initial_Job3333 · 2023-08-08T19:42:01+00:00

Men are naturally very visually orientated when it comes to attraction. What feminists are basically saying is men's innate biological reactions to visual stimuli are unacceptable.

BDT81 · 2023-08-08T22:45:59+00:00

Honestly listening to any woman talk about men having sexual desires is perplexing to me. They act like, because the guy wants to have sex, he doesn't see the woman as a person and doesn't want to also befriend them. I don't want to have sex with objects, and I would like to get to know people that are intimate with. I just don't get it

Low_Rich_5436 · 2023-08-10T06:40:58+00:00

The fatal flaw of feminists is that they act, without a shred of evidence, as if they could read men's mind. We need to confront them with that in these kinds of conversations. We know how men functi, you and your "gender studies" propagandist don't, and are maki zero effort to listen to men about it.

White_Immigrant · 2023-08-08T22:31:17+00:00

While I agree that objectification is indeed a real thing, and can be problematic in many different contexts, I don't think that feminists either get to define or own it.

Women shouldn't be treated as, for example, walking sex dolls, and men, as another example, shouldn't be treated like workhorses. We, collectively, should all agree that objectification can be a bad thing, and we should be aware of it happening, however it is neither owned by, nor defined by, feminists.

triple_skyfall · 2023-08-10T07:22:40+00:00

Absolutely.

You will hear a lot of women complaining about "the male gaze" but yet most women utilize "the male gaze" in order to gain various social & professional advantages.

2023-08-09T05:03:07+00:00

They have no problem with being objectified.

They have a problem with men they don’t want objectifying them and men that don’t want them objectifying others.

They’ll say “of course, this is consent”. Their assumption is that men know which category they fit into with every woman, without it having to be explicitly communicated.

The problem with this, is that they also want the men they’re attracted to to “go for it” and take lead.

You actually have to show them practically, eg. ask your female friend to point out a man she finds extremely attractive and go and ask him out on a date. They’ll give a bunch of reasons why they can’t, and then you tell her “if you don’t ask him out, you’ll end up single forever. That’s the typical male experience”.

Most women are pretty reasonable about this once they’ve been shown it in practical terms. They’ve just never experienced it. The expectation that one should always feel comfort in dating is laughable to most men.

No-Calligrapher · 2023-08-11T10:48:51+00:00

Meanwhile best-selling romance novels aimed at women massively objectify men by their looks, status and behavior but this is somehow perceived as different/not a bad thing.

elsmallo85 · 2023-08-09T14:06:34+00:00

I think it's one of these things that will never be adequately addressed. The male and female mind work quite differently and to different purposes on the whole, and it requires a good deal of control, respect and tolerance as an adult to deal with these essential clashes of sexual mindset.

I've very occasionally been objectified by women, and liked it - when I wanted it - but equally didn't like it when it came out of the blue or at a (rare) moment when sex wasn't really on my mind. On those occasions I felt somewhat disassociated from my own looks actually. Like the body was being looked at but the person ignored.

I can only imagine what it must be like to be a woman in the peak age of attractiveness, where very few encounters with men don't involve this wanted/unwanted dynamic, even probably with some other women as well.

Sometimes things that are essentially 'normal' and things we can't help, are not necessarily wanted or desired in that moment, I guess would be my point.

Of course, the caveat is that most women can't inhabit the male mind and understand the desires that lead men to look at women.

I lurk on a few forums where women duscuss their bf's relationship with porn, and the level of miscomprehension of this is staggering. Even looking at other women in the street as per OPs example is construed as a deeply personal assault and making the woman feel worthless and unattractive.

Having said that, I wonder what it would be like to be with a woman who looked at every other man in the street as well.

I don't think 'objectification' or 'the male gaze' are entirely useless concepts therefore, but like most things they have a limit of usefulness. Misunderstood or taken to extremes, they can be unhelpful.

DemolitionMatter · 2023-08-08T20:55:32+00:00

Most “sexual harassment” is just a man desiring casual sex

BloomingBrains · 2023-08-09T00:38:17+00:00

I suppose in an abstract sense, a man who is attracted to women he sees on the street is a potential rapist...just like someone who gets angry at someone else is a potential murderer. In the latter case, everyone knows its technically possible, but doesn't worry about it without good reason. Its a meaningless distinction. But does this same logic apply to the former? No.

What about women attracted to men they see on the street? Or women to other women? Or men to men? This logic is very heterosexist.

Objectification is stupid. Plenty of women like being "objectified". Feeling sexy gives a feeling of being desired which is a feeling of power. Most men don't get to feel sexy so you do the math here. If anything, men are deprived of the human right to feel "objectified". Sexuality is weaponized against us, but we are somehow the assholes for it, and the women who objectify themselves do nothing wrong?

Feminists twist the meaning of the word to make it sound bad. "Object" as in, you are making the woman an object because you think about her sexually and don't see her as having any other value. But this isn't true. Just because I see an attractive women on the street, that doesn't mean I think "Yep there goes something with no human rights and could never be smart enough to write a book". If men did think that way, there would be A LOT more rapes than there are.

Everyone objectifies people. We objectify baristas when we go to get coffee. We don't care if they had a good day, we just want our fucking coffee. Just like they don't care about our day, and just want our fucking money. Its a transaction and it isn't evil. Society runs off that.

Work (especially the dangerous and menial kind) is a type of objectification too. And guess who does more of that? Oh right...men.

Leobrandoxxx · 2023-08-08T22:28:48+00:00

No. Consent is key.

Title	Don't you think that the feminist concept of objectification is very problematic?
Author	Prudent_Medicine_857
Upvotes	129
Comments	63
Date	August 8, 2023 6:32 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/15lqawo/dont_you_think_that_the_feminist_concept_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/dont-you-think-that-the-feminist-concept-of.1228098 https://theredarchive.com/post/1228098

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