Amazing conversationalist, bad at seduction.

2022-04-20T08:00:22+00:00

[permanently deleted]

CompetitionFair7686 · 2022-04-20T10:04:40+00:00

High EQ is fine, however the problem is when you start talking about logical, technical stuff or deep topics that have nothing to do with you or her, like science, politics, psychology, philosophy, medicine, and other shit like that that feels more like you are in a university debate with your university lecturer… than in a date with a girl.

As for your flirting, that’s not even flirting… “Oh you look amazing tonight… Love your shoes” that’s something even her mum or her gay best friend can say.

Say things that only a heterosexual man, who desires her sexually, can say… And say it in a tone that is more sexual, rather than friendly.

You slow down your voice, you look at the woman up and down with a smile 😏 , bite your bottom lips in a sexually suggestive way, and say something like:

“Girl, the way you smile at me is making me feel so hot right now” or “can you repeat that again, i got lost in your eyes” or “Your eyes, your gaze is making me go crazy” or “damn girl you looking like a snack” and then bite your lips in a suggestive way as if you are hungry**”
Or interrupt her by saying “Fascinating… and sexy…” then bite your lip and then add “Sorry, repeat that again, i got distracted”

Notice how different these lines are compared to the “you look amazing nice shoes”? Yours sound like something her female bff, or her mum or gay best friend would say, while the ones i wrote before sound far more like a guy who wants to have sex with her.

Specially the biting your lips thing helps to establish more your desire and also creates more sexual tension, because saying “you look amazing or nice shoes” doesn’t create any tension at all…

And the point of flirting is to create sexual tension, to make her feel like: “oh shit this guy wants to have sex with me”

And yes, sometimes creating sexual tension if done wrong can create too much tension making the girl feel too uncomfortable, however if you don’t create enough sexual tension because you are playing it too safe, then you get friendzoned…

So you need to get close enough to crossing the line without crossing it completely, so you need to take risks and see how far you can go to build that sexual tension...

So what you are missing is that you don’t act like a sexual male, and instead play it too safe because you seem to be afraid of making the girl feel uncomfortable or afraid making her think you are a creep or something, but that’s the thing you need to create sexual tension and find the balance…

And that means sometimes you might be a creep who comes on too strong at the wrong time, while other times you will find the right amount of sexual tension said at the right time…

Not to mention that you need also to do touching… Caressing her hands or her wrists creates sexual tension, although you need an excuse to touch her hands like “oh can i see real quick the bracelets/rings” or “I know how to do palm reading and interpret your personality/or fortune, wanna see?” Those excuses allow you to caress her hands and then make comments like “Your skin is so soft and feminine… I’m liking it 😏😉”

Basically, you need to behave in a more masculine and sexual way with girls, right now you are being friendly and playing it safe.

rich_god · 2022-04-20T11:38:23+00:00

Try being less in your head and more in your body. Making people feel comfortable is good, but it's only step 1, step 2 is too be in the flow, to be touchy, vulnerable, true and with clear intentions.

> For eg "You look amazing tonight, love your shoes" and they would say "shut up, you're too much" and then starts giggling.

Take your time. Slow her down, give her a hug, look in her eyes and then say "I find you very beautiful today" or whatever is authentic in the moment. People that receive a lot of compliments (so beautiful women, famous people, artists, successful therapists and so on) create a protection from them, because it is actually tiring to really receive all those compliments, especially since most of them are just projections or seduction strategies. So if you just send a compliment out of nowhere, it will miss the target.

Basically talk less, use the silence, eye contact and touch more than words and jokes (you will still be funny, don't worry about that), and bring more intention and decisiveness in what you say. The more complexity you embody (being sometimes funny, sometims serious, sometimes talkative, sometimes silent, dancing, singing, being spontaneous), the more attractive you will become. If you contain yourself in a single archetype (like "the funny friendly guy"), you will be less attractive over time.

Hmmkey · 2022-04-20T08:05:57+00:00

Sounds like intent and kino are missing. So I’d guess you are scared of rejection and therefore don’t state your intent or you do but you do it in a playful way. Work on the rejection. I’d suggest for example when talking keeping eye contact and stating something that she did for example wow I love your passion when you talk about x , that’s very sexy, remain eye contact and pull her in for a kiss.

caesarfecit · 2022-04-20T16:13:27+00:00

Okay, I can relate to this more than one might think, so I'mma unpack some of my thoughts on the matter.

One of the big difficulties with having self-esteem issues is that you have trouble seeing yourself the way others see you. You have a hard time putting their reactions to you into context because you don't see the big picture with how you come across.

If anything you probably confuse the shit out of women. Many of them will probably think you're either gay, or unattainable. No joke - I saw this out of a woman who was propositioning me and I was on the fence. You could see the gears turning in her head trying to figure out if I just wasn't attracted to girls, or not attracted to her. (Truth was, I was strongly attracted to her, and leery about her mood swings).

Put it this way. Women are used to dealing with primarily two types of guys. Guys playing the Chad who aren't too bright, can be read like an open book, and either assertively pursue her or treat her like she's sexually irrelevant. And guys playing the Chump who come off meek and are so grateful for female attention that they gladly listen to her bitch, do her favors, and generally make themselves her pawn.

You might see yourself as average, but in my experience, any guy who is reasonably intelligent, isn't dog-ugly, has social skills and a decent lifestyle is both fuckable and dateable to any woman who isn't either unavailable or has far better options. She might not get stupid and giddy over you, but you're definitely on her radar as a man.

So then she tries to typecast you. You don't hit on her and charge in all guns blazing (at least at first), but you also don't act beta. So you're neither fuckboy nor a enunch. You're the the toughest nut to crack - a guy who can at least to some extent control his thirst. But she's always gonna be asking this question until she either makes a move out of frustration or tries to fit you for a leash.

Now, let me clear up your confusion about your skills when it comes to building emotional rapport. For women, a guy they can be emotionally intimate with, especially without a high amount of investment - that for them is a like a hot bartender who's down for a super casual no-strings thing is for us guys. It's not that it's unmasculine (within reason, of course), you're actually the dating jackpot for a woman. A guy who scratches that itch she only normally gets scratched with a high quality boyfriend, while still leaving her available to pursue and bang other guys. You're spoiling them rotten, OP.

By now you should be seeing where I'm going with this. At this point they start trying to lock you down, as a friend. This is because for women, more time and more rapport with a guy reduces their overall risk factor, but it also causes them to lose attraction because you're still giving them the most valuable thing a man can give them (your time, attention, and sincere concern), and asking relatively little in return. You think you're just being social, she's looking at you as one of her most valuable friends.

By now she's gotten to know you pretty well, and one of two things, sometimes both will be going on. One part of her will see you as a Chad who's just not that into her and she's happy to take what she can get and not risk her ego or her friendship trying to upgrade. Maybe she'll entertain some fantasies of marrying you down the line or evolving things into a FWB arrangement, but ultimately she won't want to risk the friendship unless the timing is exactly right. And another part of her will see the insecurities and low self-esteem you try so hard to hide, and see you as Chump. The same way a divorced woman sees the ex she parted with on good terms - she might not hold you in contempt or think less of you, but you're not worth dating because there's no mystery, no suspense - you're a known quantity, even if she's never dated or slept with you.

And if she's being strung along by some other guy, you'll see this dynamic on steroids, as you become her emotional affair, while she goes through the melodrama of chasing some guy who's on/off and ultimately just not that into her. She'll send you mixed signals, drain you dry of attention, and act like you're on drugs if you want her to ditch the tool, stop fooling around, and get with you.

Basically what you are is a quasi-Nice Guy, in that you lack most of the deep level Nice Guy neuroses, you just have low self-esteem, which causes you to undervalue yourself, and overvalue the opinions of others. As a result, you punch below your weight in the dating market, and girls lead you on all kinds of merry chases that lead nowhere because she can't figure out whether to hurl herself at you, scheme ruthlessly to lock you down, or reject you out of spite.

Now, how should you adapt?

You probably talk too much. Most guys get tongue-tied around girls, your challenge will be to try and reveal as little as possible about yourself, and get them talking. Open-ended questions, and intriguing statements are your friend.
You probably have trouble expressing yourself sexually in a calibrated manner, as you likely jag between being cool as a cucumber, and on fire for them. You probably also escalate far too much with your words rather than your touch and how closely you stand next to her. The best flirting is done without words, and instead with your eyes, face, hands, and presence.
When it comes to emotional rapport and vulnerability, the trick should be to neither be stingy nor give that shit away for free. In fact, it's best to view your time, effort, attention, and desire as your gift to her. When you do give it, don't half-ass it, and don't spoil her either. She wants to work for it.
Remember it's not all your fault/responsibility. I can't tell you how many times I've dealt with women and watched them get trapped in their own head, play themselves, self-sabotage, or otherwise get in their own way, because of how you confuse them and mess with their ego simply by being around. A big part of your job as a man is helping her avoid this. Usually a good romp in the hay and some pillow talk allows them to sort themselves out, but how to get there? That leads into the next point.
I suspect something where you'll see some real ROI is getting better with leading women. As Mark Manson points out, teasing is just one half of flirting. Leading is the other and arguably more powerful half. This is where assuming attraction is so key, and a big secret to the appeal of the Chad. She wants to get laid, she just doesn't want to do all the work and take all the risks. Make hooking up an unspoken conspiracy between you and her, communicated through a discreet touch and a look in the eyes. Then she'll follow you. But the key is to not break the spell by being overtly sexual before she's ready. And how will you when she's ready? When you look her in the eyes and she holds your gaze.
Another big ROI move is to make gains in the looks/fitness department. The more you can turn her on passively, the less likely she is to try and flirt with you with one hand cupped around her ego.

Hope that helps.

FaithInStrangers94 · 2022-04-20T11:38:50+00:00

I just realised I never naturally compliment women and when I try to correct that it seems to backfire… I think I they like having to work for you attention.. but sometimes that can backfire too… In confusions: I don’t know mate

Musician-Round · 2022-04-20T15:40:34+00:00

>Girls don't see me as a dating material. Do I take this as a sign of being physically unattractive? I do have an high EQ. Is high EQ not a masculine trait?

It is uncommon for a guy to demonstrate a capacity for EQ so yes, you may be singling yourself as the odd one of the bunch. But this in itself is not a condemnation, it is a virtue.

Scientific studies have concluded that women are the more observant sex and have an innate talent to read body language. In these same studies they conducted tests for both men and women, to determine which regions activate when individuals are engaging in conversation and how adept they are at reading haptic communication and social cues.
They found that women's brain activate in 16 regions during a conversation with someone, while male brains go active in about 4 different regions.

The point I'm trying to make is, yes it is a bit uncommon for a male to be so aware and in tune with people around them. But if you've ever taken a look at any women's advice column, one of the most common complaints is that they wish their man understood them better.

Don't get me wrong, some will be absolutely shocked and horrified and will write you off immediately. But the overwhelming portion of women actively seek and crave that kind of understanding. In my personal experiences, I have entered relationships purely on this merit. It almost borders on mind-reading, but they absolutely love it.

Nourish this quality and the sky will be the limit for you.

From what I have read, you certainly have done your homework and know how to attract people. If you want to improve your seduction, I'd recommend you pull back on the over-friendly vibes and allow that to add a layer of mystery to your character.

Making people feel comfortable and that you are a trustworthy individual should always be at the top of your priorities, but at the same time hold some of your personal shine back and allow them to dig deeper. It is seduction, a lure, but if she is genuinely interested then she will dig deep and want to find out more.

Just my 2c on the matter, but I think you have the capacity to become an incredible lover to your future partner(s). Because its not every day that a woman will run into individuals that can comprehend them as something more than sexual conquests.

Snakehead004 · 2022-04-20T12:19:13+00:00

This was my biggest issue when yoing. I had no idea how to create attraction from women. The links shared are good. It's about escalation and flirty banter. Push pull isn't all pua douche nonsense even though the way its often presented here comes off as such. Keep on the path

krispykreme01 · 2022-04-20T14:26:59+00:00

I wouldn’t compliment women to much man especially with that example, Women will take it one of two ways either he’s into his feminine side which most women don’t like or it’s a harmless compliment. While neither of these is not necessary bad you want a partner/sex.

Now teasing is good prolonged eye contact to gauge what she’s feeling not too long tho. Also look at her lips, bite your lip, look her up and down again not too long lol. But don’t just look weirdo then it’s time to chop it up with these bitches …cough cough I mean chop it up with these respectable young women.

Anyways once you kinda get a feel she’s down go up to her still doing the other stuff and you could say your smile is driving me crazy rn or I really like how you’re looking tonight say it in a manly/sexual tone. It’s honestly trial and error and based on what the women says.

Also if you’re cold approaching I would open with hello/opening banter. Then some jokes to break ice like you normally do, finally if you feel the vibe with her just be like I’m gonna be honest with you…. And go for it. If not you could just go for it in the beginning idk man just depends on the women and what signals she giving off.

Problems hit the gym they all workout.

eablokker · 2022-04-20T16:32:36+00:00

If you listen and care too much then you end up letting HER feelings dominate the interaction. So essentially you have to wait for HER to start feeling sexual before you can and that’s not going to happen.

You can listen and care enough to be able to recognize where she’s at, but don’t go fully into it with her. Lead a little by bringing in your own sexual feelings.

MrBunqle · 2022-04-20T07:58:00+00:00

Basic questions to fill in our picture of you:

How old are you?

Are you in a urban, suburban or rural area? Is it strictly religious?

Have a job?

Have hobbies?

Have friends? Female friends?

Never considered online dating? (This was my crash course in figuring out who is open to anything more than just a conversation, subtle/vert flirting and getting over rejection. But real online dating is kinda dead now, so you kinda missed out there. Sorry)

PureFlames · 2022-04-20T16:14:27+00:00

Curious to see responses, im in the same spot as you OP where i have high status and tons of friends (male and female ) but bad at seduction

Accomplished_Egg_928 · 2022-04-20T22:45:52+00:00

Do not take on the agony aunt role with women you are interested or dating, that is what their friends are for. Once you are established in a relationship for a few years and live together for a while, then you can start to help her emotionally. I used to think this works, but its an unattractive trait and learnt from past mistakes. I was also dumped, told we were too close and better than friends after 2 years in a relationship from trying to fix her life. You don't have to be a bad boy, just non-reactive. Also treat women with emotional issues as ones to avoid.

Another point, how long into dating are you complementing women on their appearance. I don't do this until I have known her for a while, and where she has gone into a lot of effort for a special occasion. If she is beautiful, she knows full well that she is, and its her friends that will tell her that.

With the bad boy point, don't be afraid to take risks. If its a rejection from your advances when you feel its right (via kino escalation), then move on to the next one.

Also, she will know you have low self esteem, no point masking it.

jimmyjohnatbillybob · 2022-04-21T02:43:16+00:00

If you’re ugly you wont have sex appeal……

Otherwise_Cattle5111 · 2022-04-21T16:04:34+00:00

You look great in the beginning. As the night progresses, maybe at some point later… if you get close to her ear .. lightly say, you look so beautiful tonight. And you smell so lovely. And then back up and see how that’s being interpreted by her. It’s simply that easy.. think about it this way.. if she leaned over to you later in the date and said, I find you irresistible and I was excited to get to spend some one on one time with you.. thank you for an amazing time.. you wouldn’t like that? It’s just appreciating a person and the effort they make to be accessible to you.. and that creates tension … it’s the tension that is the seduction. if that doesn’t feel nice.. I can’t help you.

hagakurejunkie · 2022-04-22T00:28:40+00:00

You're probably really hyper and a fast talker and you use your hands when you speak. You're interesting but you act effeminate when you talk to women.

Slow your speech down, keep your hand movement to a minimum and relax.

And "I love your shoes" sounds gay as fuck. My gay brother says shit like that. But he's also trying to bang her brother so even he doesn't care.

Artist-in-Residence- · 2022-04-20T07:55:50+00:00

Where do you meet these girls/women? It seems like you're choosing the wrong types for you.

recyclablebanthas · 2022-04-20T15:11:31+00:00

1

I had a very low self esteem for a long time (years/decade). So I never actually believe that a girl actually wants me.

But, I'm really good at masking it. Have trained myself to do it and excel in other parts of life.

Girls don't see me as a dating material.

First up, if you actually don't believe any girl actually wants you, you can't hide that. It will come out in everything from your body language to your word choice.

This does not mean you can't change it. It just means that if you don't actually address the core issue, you can't hide a lack of belief in yourself.

2

Do I take this as a sign of being physically unattractive? I do have an high EQ. Is high EQ not a masculine trait?

I don't have a typical bad boy personality but rather a guy who listens and cares. Do most women like bad boy personality?

I'm 181 cm tall with some muscle mass(not ripped yet) and a good fashion sense.

I do crack jokes all the times and make people around ne feel comfortable. Does that kill the attraction?

I don't put women on pedsteal, I do tease them and flirt with them a lot, but alot of my compliments are not taken seriously by girls. They see it as banter.

For eg "You look amazing tonight, love your shoes" and they would say "shut up, you're too much" and then starts giggling.

None of these things are the issue.

If you lack confidence in yourself and fail to physically escalate in any way, then you won't get to sex or a relationship.

So how to do that?

Confidence

It's complicated, but you're on the path to this one. It's a journey, not a destination. I don't know anyone who really feels like they've completely arrived. But it's not necessary to.

Here are a few things that are important for confidence:

Coming to an appreciation for the things you have achieved. There are things you've done that others haven't. Like dancing, for example. Or perhaps one of the things you've worked to excel in.
Learning self-trust: Testing yourself and building up trust in yourself that you're capable of rising to the test. No one is perfect and no one wins them all, but knowing you're capable of accomplishing something difficult, is important. Bringing it back to the example of dance, it's an accomplishment to swallow one's pride and start at the bottom in beginner dance classes. Not everyone can do that. I've seen plenty quit.
Allowing yourself the luxury of basking in a win every now and again. Perhaps not too much because too much pride leads to blind spots. But so many people work hard at self-improvement and then fucking ignore all the milestones they pass. You're arguably ignoring some of your own milestones because you're focused on the next thing. But looking back on what you've done is important.

All this can contribute to confidence but you need to spend time focusing in these areas or you could do all the self-improvement in the world and get none of the benefits.

Physical Escalation

Not as complicated, but we often make it so. When people read this phrase, they often assume it means, "feeling up the girl." Yes, but NO. There's a ton that happens between first contact/meeting a girl and getting to obviously sexual touch.

A lot of PUAs talk about a "ladder" and realize that you can't just crank the escalation up to 11. Going to fast has a way of setting off alarm bells; girls get wary when the guy is pushing their agenda too hard and fast with little consideration or adjustments in response to their feedback.

-First Stage-

Start out light and observe their reactions to safe touch. Stuff that you couldn't get sued or arrested for. If she's down, then she'll respond positively to even this first level of stuff and you know you can ratchet up the intensity.

1a.) Light contact. This is the stuff that gets overlooked. Handshakes, high fives, fist bumps, side-arm jabs, etc.

1b.) Non-sexual contact. Basically anything non-sexual is fair game also. Anything you could do to dudes without being accused of coming onto them.

1c.) Incidental contact. Accidental stuff. Can't plan this, but it'll happen when you're walking next to her or sitting next to her.

-After that-

Basically from here, it can vary so much that trying to carve out further actual stages is kind of pointless. But some basic concepts:

Pay attention to her reaction. It won't require the Rosetta Stone. If she's leaning into contact or escalating back on her own, then that's positive feedback. If she's pulling away or flinching, etc, then that's negative.
- If it's positive, you can keep on doing what you're doing or up the voltage.
- If it's negative, back off to the last level you were at that was acceptable.
Monkey see, monkey do. If she does it to you, it's fair play to do back usually.
Avoid pushing beyond kissing if you're not in a location where you can comfortably escalate all the way to sex.
- If you're not in such a location, then it's best to avoid reaching a level of intensity where you're pawing at her. If you're near that point, suggest an excuse to head to your place or hers. If she's down, she'll rubber stamp even a lame excuse.

3

There are situations where you can most definitely escalate to blatantly sexual touch really quickly after meeting a girl. These situations usually require:

That you already have good game.
Night game situations where alcohol is flowing and people are already looking for something fast (and usually disposable).

If you aren't already at a level where you can get laid when you want, then contriving to "accidentally" touch a girl's nipple or pussy is a pretty huge risk for you. This isn't something basic.

4

You've said that you're taking dance classes, right? You're on the right track there, honestly. Partner dances like those are great ways to develop your situational awareness and calibration, which will allow you to pull off faster and more extreme forms of physical escalation.

Like "accidentally" touching someone in a way that actually works instead of sinking your chances. Or meeting someone and actually

JearBear_3 · 2022-04-20T15:03:21+00:00

Say hey sexy, wait for response, get their number , then dip

zx91zx91 · 2022-04-20T15:53:47+00:00

Really good advice in this thread. Based off what you said, you seem quite pacifist. Nothing wrong with being one as I am one myself, but it seems to me that you lack some sort of “punch” in your personality. You need more “bad boy” sauce.

Zealousideal6669 · 2022-04-20T16:05:18+00:00

It's called showing intent. I'm also fine with conversations even though the opening isn't the easiest thing for me but I'm fine but it's 2 different things. Having a conversation with a girl and oftentimes making her laugh makes you feel good but it actually means nothing. One thing that gonna means something is flirting and teasing and showing off your personality. Flirting and teasing and being playful with the girl gonna actually make her feel in a certain way that might stand you out from a friend zone to a boyfriend zone if you dare to take these risks. Ofc there's so much more about how to talk and what to say and how to deal with certain things but if you only apply that 2 thing and you're also fine with conversations that are a sticking point for a lot of guys you gonna be fine

icyrunner20 · 2022-04-20T21:09:24+00:00

anou142 · 2022-04-21T01:49:00+00:00

Do find ur self laughing a lot during convos? Even if there isn’t anything necessarily funny. If so you might need to train ur self in handling tension.

Title	Amazing conversationalist, bad at seduction.
Author	No-Emotion5965
Upvotes	164
Comments	75
Date	April 20, 2022 7:50 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/u7r894/amazing_conversationalist_bad_at_seduction/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/amazing-conversationalist-bad-at-seduction.1261636 https://theredarchive.com/post/1261636

Comments

Confidence

Physical Escalation