PUA blogs and Youtube videos are creating an army of angry douchebags that have invaded seddit

Black_Belt_Troy · 2014-04-30T19:57:04+00:00

Honestly, I get tired of these gimmicks. They're completely stupid, and this community has lost sight of how things really work. It's overthinking and over complicating the simple problems that led people here in the first place. I'll boil "seduction" down to a simple science. Actually, screw it, this is Living a Happy Life 101.

1) Be the counterpart to the type of person you want to be with. You want a good looking girl? Go out and work out, dress well, get a style and take pride in your appearance. You want a girl who's going places in life? Get fucking motivated, and start doing your best to get where YOU want to be. You want a girl who's interesting, charming, sociable? Goddammmit start socializing. Get some hobbies, build some friendships, have stories and be making memories. Enjoy yourself.

2) Be completely confident in who you are. If you're not, buckle up bud, it's time to start making changes. Build yourself into the person you want to be, enjoy life. Refer to #1.

3) Pursue what you want, without being needy. Is this so fucking hard to understand?

No "tips" are going to get you anything in life, being yourself is. If you're not who you want to be, build yourself there. Done deal.

ItWasIraqLobster · 2014-04-30T17:08:50+00:00

Three thoughts come to mind:

1.) PUA/seduction material is inherently ripe for creating awful and embarrassing material that reflects poorly on the rest of the people in the community. That's what happens when you're taking people who are deficient socially/romantically, asking them to expand their boundaries and get out of their comfort zone, and do all of that with an air of self-confidence. When this material (hell, all of self-improvement?) is about people who kinda suck trying not to suck, ugliness is inevitable.

2.) Take a look around at other hobbies or topics that have blown up or gotten much bigger. Music and gaming, to take a couple of examples, have the same thing happen to them that you described. I really like video games, but I'll be the first to say there are tons of bad games, shitty YouTube videos, lame guides and videos, forums filled with people with awful ideas, etc. Every time I'm on YouTube I see tons of embarrassingly bad videos and content creators (that are somehow popular!) tht make me want to dissacosiate with the hobby. What am I saying? I'm saying that as an interest or hobby gets more popular, the number of people in that hobby gets larger, and the shit content and shit people also get larger. Sorry. It happens.

3.) As far as you, HappyJerk goes, I'm not surprised in the least by what you say you've experienced. I do have to say that your persona, of being argumentative and seeing things in black and white, will definitely lead to people thinking you're an ass or writing you off or trying to ban you. People reap what they sow, and that certainly applies to you. You're a smart guy, and if you want to have your posts and ideas to be better received, I know you'll figure out how to make that happen...if you want it badly enough of course.

P.S. I'd also like to say I fully support the idea of this topic, of calling out shitty members and aspects of our community. Just because we're all trying to do the same thing doesn't mean some of the stuff certain people say is utter crap, and we should be willing to recognize it.

yokhai · 2014-04-30T17:06:50+00:00

TL;DR: There is good information and bad information on the internet.

Point being made, its up to the reader to discern which information could be beneficial, and which can be ignored.

TheSicilianDude · 2014-04-30T21:45:08+00:00

One universal truth about reddit (and life): When there are a lot of people discussing a subject, there are bound to be conflicting ideas. I actually wrote a post some time ago about how the newbies on Seddit are going to hear a lot of different information. So, the best thing to do is to read sparingly and spend more time getting experience. Because experience is what really matters.

Look at the title of the sub. It's /r/seduction. SEDUCTION. I think that's a misnomer. This sub is about becoming a better man and learning to find satisfaction in your dating and sex life. Seduction, by its definition, is a form of persuasion (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), but it can be taken that way. This sub is not about learning tricks to get women in bed with you (this is why I utterly despise books like The Game), it's about discovering yourself and your true potential (and why I love books like Models).

Let's be honest: If I could sit a newbie down and only tell him my piece of advice, it would be "1) Find out what your passions are and pursue them, 2) improve yourself (eat better, work out, etc), 3) Approach women everywhere you go, day and night, 4) Show genuine interest, if she doesn't reciprocate then move on, 5) Set up dates, 6) escalate, 7) repeat."

Honestly, if a newbie put all his efforts toward making himself better and meeting new women constantly, and truly dedicated himself, he would not need to read more and more pickup material. He'd be set.

If you love yourself and you're constantly meeting women, you won't need to learn stupid new tricks. That's why I can't stand the "PUA" community. These douchebags you're referring to are offering a band-aid solution to these AFCs, that may very likely work. But it's a quick fix. Bottom Line (and TL;DR): Self-Improvement takes TIME. Getting great with women takes TIME. This shit does not happen overnight. Some guys don't want to accept that, so they resort to these little "tricks" that might get them laid... but you can only rely on that system for so long. Eventually, women will see through the bullshit.

Good post, OP. I get what you're saying. We definitely don't want newbies to be getting the wrong message from these tools.

Onward and upward.

Link_GR · 2014-04-30T18:07:28+00:00

You should see TRP right now. It used to be about becoming a better man and now it's just a toxic community that hates and blames women for everything. I had to unsubscribe because it was just bringing me down...At least Seddit, with all its flaws, is still a fun community.

iKill_eu · 2014-04-30T17:33:38+00:00

"Ok, so I was in this club right and this HB11 was surrounded by like 15 guys. Even though they were all trying to bang her, I walked up right up to her and put my phone in her hand and TOLD her to put her number in my phone. The dudes all tried to AMOG me but I just looked them dead in the eye and said 'don’t be jealous you’re not as alpha as me' and they all backed down. We’re now married."

I agree with your points, but damn, this is the most hilarious thing I've read today.

Black_Belt_Troy · 2014-04-30T20:13:06+00:00

OP, I'd be inclined to disagree with you (because you sound just as angry as the angry guys) if you weren't...right.

This kind of shit, which may have been fringe 5, 10 years ago, was a little outside 2 or 3 years ago, seems to be normal as hell now. Guys everywhere, whether they know about the community or not, are engaging in a lot of the really bad alpha-centric behaviour. I see guys all the time texting shitty things to shitty women and treating them like shit, and its got its roots in this and TRP type communities.

Which is bad, IMO, because I think the community that started here, and what it was like 3-4 years ago when I go on board, was one about men who wanted to treat women not like shit, but as passionate people unto themselves. The whole community, I think, has lost sight of something: where once I think the focus was good, meaningful, passionate sex, now the community just cares about sex at all. It leads to a lot of really shitty behaviours that will get you laid one time if you're lucky, and really aren't based in self-improvement.

2014-04-30T17:19:57+00:00

Good post. There's a few things at play here I believe.

Firstly, its not just PUA, its everything. People will generally be interested in a quick fix. If could be 'just eat/skip this one food and you'll lose weight!' 'Do this to get rich quick!' 'Shortcut way to build muscle!' etc. If the options are between hard work and a quick fix, many will investigate the quick fix.

The other thing at play is that a lot of the hardcore AFC guys tend to be quite geeky/lack social skills. What really appeals to them is someone saying they can break down this hard, mysterious and downright scary social interaction thing into something they will understand. Method, logic, black/white, flowcharts and process. That's very appealing.

I agree. All the PUA detail is just 'foam on the shore' (to quote Lewis). The reality is that if you want people to find you attractive and interesting you need to develop into an attractive and interesting person. No part of that involves PUA parlor tricks.

BlueIsStylinOnYou · 2014-04-30T17:02:37+00:00

I read through this entire post and I have to say I agree whole heatedly with every point you made. There are no shortcuts in life, just hard work.

kierow · 2014-04-30T17:13:13+00:00

Yep, but it's happening Reddit wide, too.

Tombstone31 · 2014-04-30T17:51:14+00:00

How about instead of just shitting in every thread, you offer something helpful? All you ever say is "this won't work" and "be confident." You literally never give concrete advice. As far as I can tell, you never even talk to girls. Your posts just clog up this sub with meaningless noise.

Cali_Val · 2014-04-30T18:33:34+00:00

Most Def needs a TL;DR

I dislike seeing some horrible ass pushy PUA's that are complete retards. Its not cute, its retarded.

I seriously don't like to associate myself with PUA because of all the new vids of people just being retarded out there, and its only getting worse.

BUT eventually it'll hit a point where a change will need to be made, if we're to keep doing what we do, and then a reform will happen and hopefully, good will come from that

Flygerianmc · 2014-04-30T21:06:01+00:00

I don't really see whats your point though.. since there's literally no way of telling whether your right or everyone else is right. It's just a big clunk of mess of attitudes and approaches and its up to people to decide what they wanna do and mess around with. I don't see how you expect the information posted here to be perfect.

Also can you pipe down with the loser shit... thats too easy to use in here. You call people losers in here and everyone else jumps on the bandwagon because surely if you're the one calling other people losers you cant be loser. It's like that one guy that calls a fit girl ugly as if it makes him look better. Anyway regardless i dont personally have a solution, not that i even think there is a solution to what you're saying. Let it be to be honest, subjectively some of the content on here is going to be good and some of it is going to interesting regardless of whether its good or not.

2014-04-30T22:07:57+00:00

Well said. I agree with your philosophy of being an awesome person and attracting people that way. It seems like the only path to take. Though, I do disagree with one statement you made.

They sell an overexaggerated “confidence” that translates in the real world to being an offensive douchebag. The Simple Pickup guys are the worst at this, but you see it everywhere.

What's wrong with Simple Pickup? I don't think they are over-exaggerating. One of the guys, Jesse, used to suffer from severe social anxiety, got out of his fog, and is now living an awesome life. That's a testament to your point right there. Half of their videos are just them fucking around and having fun. They are just trying to show that talking to girls is really not that difficult. Far from any lame PUA stuff I've usually seen in the past. They are living awesome lives, being awesome.

HappyJerk · 2014-04-30T22:22:49+00:00

You sound awfully negative. How's your life going?

2014-04-30T23:21:53+00:00

My thing recently was the notion that anyone on tinder is easy pickings. So many people down voted me when I said something about tinder and started acting like its no effort to SNL a girl from Tinder. 100% not true. We def need less douches around because it doesnt make the PUA look good to other subs and in public.

penismissle · 2014-05-01T00:26:48+00:00

A wise man once told me if you're seeing a doctor for an illness or injury and he/she promises you they can completely cure you, run. Its very likely they have a bloated sense of confidence with little results to back it up. Medicine is too complicated, too beyond our understanding to make promises. Therefore, a good doctor can only promise they will do their best to treat you, not cure you.

I use the same advice for PUAs. If a pua claims they know the one trick to trigger a woman's sexual emotions or know exactly what to say to a woman. Or if they simply claim they can train you to be able to seduce any woman through complex techniques, dont listen to them. There is no secret trick, you cant seduce any woman you want.

PUAs can help you become more comfortable with women an they can help you increase your confidence, but that still doesnt guarantee anything. Anyone who is looking for advice from PUAs should stick to that rule.

Julien Manifesto puts it pretty well when he says PUAs can handle the outcome better but they cannot control it.

Spaceman7Spiff · 2014-04-30T17:49:25+00:00

I like you happyjerk. You live in the real world and accept it in all its ugliness. You dont try to dress it up and tell people that everythings gunna be alright because this is real life. That being said, the only value I can see in some of the pua blogs/videos that push persistence and unapologetic confidence is that it helps to break some of us out of our shells. For instance, all my life I was raised to "sit down, shut up, youre wrong, im right...etc" so for me to adopt a mindset of "i know what im doing, back the fuck up" really helps me to develop that side of my personality. But i also know that some people are too stupid to take things with a grain of salt if that makes any sense...

JonDRock · 2014-04-30T17:27:57+00:00

If you assume that you are on the path to success, then you will see the value in most everything instead of saying 99% is sh*t.

2014-04-30T17:45:51+00:00

HappyJerk, this was my experience with the PUA community too.

I personally found that many of the "experts" were trying to do this for a living. And in order to reach as wide an audience as possible, they would tell guys that anyone can get an HB10.

In my experience, PUA routines can increase the number of girls that you're dating. And yes, once in a while you'll "luck out" and get an HB10. But those girls won't stick around unless you're bringing something to the table.

Basically you're right, if you want a better woman you need to make yourself a better man. (And that doesn't mean a Beta Man, or a wuss.)

cosmicandshit · 2014-04-30T19:30:30+00:00

Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkYO1qaBYUo

(Penn and Teller Bullshit: Self-Esteem)

Informs on the bullshit business of Self-Esteem

keysmachine · 2014-04-30T19:43:10+00:00

this was on point and hilarious all at the same time.

people go what's the secret opener for a girl?

how about start with "HI, what's your name?"

Malicepoint · 2014-04-30T21:49:15+00:00

Have you read models by Mark Manson? Its my go to guide after realizing the crap being taught today is making a lot of men into actors. I don't want to be an actor I want to change into a better me.

gigitygigitygoo · 2014-04-30T21:53:49+00:00

We need to create the seddit equivalent of History 2 Channel.

AnonyBot32 · 2014-04-30T22:35:23+00:00

I lot of the PUA stuff is just self-help in disguise, and I think your criticisms are just reflecting that: quick fixes that don't really work, confidence boosts that don't last, promises that never pan out, etc. That's not to say that self-help is all worthless, but a lot of it is.

You just have to learn how to separate the what from the chaff for yourself and be willing to help others do the same. But, as you mentioned, there are always going to be people who just wont listen. They don't want to hear that it takes a lot of hard work to be a confident, self-actualized person.

yummyluckycharms · 2014-04-30T23:13:25+00:00

Why do you care about being downvoted? Say what you want to say

Mcabe1234 · 2014-04-30T23:51:35+00:00

I utterly agree. It seems the PUA community has gone through a few phases.

First, it was all tricks, gimmicks and methods.
This had quite some success but it was eventually figured out it wasn't 100%.
Which led onto the next phase which was more about becoming the boss of life.
"Make yourself into a better person and the ladies will come".

But now it seems the market has become saturated.
Every man and his dog that has spoken to a women can claim he's a mPUA on the net.
There's now a lot of "Set up a blog and a youtube channel, maximize views then sell a CD or book."
People aren't sold materials to help them do the hard work required - they're sold the dream instead.

When I first started in pickup, I saw a lot of "There's no quick fix, this takes time and practice".
Now there's a lot of "one simple trick to become the alpha male" or "6 ways to quickly get that girl to come home with you".
It's all just clickbait.

Keninishna · 2014-05-01T00:08:00+00:00

I've been into the PUA community for about a decade now, I've read and tried formulas, theories, nlp and hypnotism, evolutionary psychology etc. Done thousands of approaches, got hundreds of numbers but only 2 lays lol. In my opinion everyone is differen't but the biggest things to improve your game are inner game and looking good and not being needy.

s3n4thor · 2014-05-01T11:40:14+00:00

Why was it deleted?

SacreBleuMe · 2014-04-30T21:33:15+00:00

But seriously, y’all need to calm down.

The lack of self awareness is truly stunning.

Seriously, this subreddit is extremely hostile and dudes get extremely defensive and douchey when you disagree with them.

You're being pretty hostile, defensive and douchey yourself. I'm not surprised in the least the mods tried to ban you.

Basically all you're saying is "Fuck this, fuck that, rah rah rah" with no constructive input except "be confident."

Well, fuck that.

Maybe you need to do some self-evaluation and stop focusing on being angry at other people.

DonManolo · 2014-04-30T21:01:43+00:00

5 super funny dude! Nice post

Snake0987654321 · 2014-04-30T22:28:07+00:00

Honestly your post seems to be reflecting the angry asshole attitude you are attacking. Your post is also extremely judgmental of "fat losers". I've seen afc fat guys get laid and as a scrawny tall guy personally I might not get a whole lot of attention for my looks but every now and then there's a girl who likes nerdy tall skinny guys and it's sweet. Otherwise I do my best with what I've got. But getting all butthurt because I wasn't blessed with massive biceps without working out all the time doesn't help me. Honestly i could be wrong but judging by some of what you said in your post you don't really ever push outside your comfort zone and seem to be overly worried about what people think of you. I do agree that an overemphasis on tactics is bad but I feel like you're blaming the coaches for students not being smart enough to understand their concepts.

Again I'm 22 now and have known about this since I was 15 so I've been around for a while and honestly you need to chill

ENTicedbyReddit · 2014-04-30T23:57:44+00:00

Spot on my friend. I suggest you read Mark Mason's - Models And Neil Strauss' - The Game

ThePUA_Baddie · 2014-04-30T18:08:05+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ThePUA_Baddie · 2014-04-30T18:59:00+00:00

"PUA blogs and Youtube videos are creating an army of angry douchebags that have invaded seddit"

Sounds like it'd be a good headline for a newspaper article lol. But honestly you guys would be wise to listen to happyjerk. He's made some legit contributions to this subreddit especially his how to ask a girl out post. That shit literally put the process into perspective and has landed me a date with a cute girl. Happyjerk knows his shit, deal with it

Title	PUA blogs and Youtube videos are creating an army of angry douchebags that have invaded seddit
Author	HappyJerk
Upvotes	341
Comments	80
Date	April 30, 2014 4:15 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/24dl6z/pua_blogs_and_youtube_videos_are_creating_an_army/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/pua-blogs-and-youtube-videos-are-creating-an-army.1370076 https://theredarchive.com/post/1370076

Comments

5 super funny dude! Nice post