RP and Mental Illness

bogeyd6 · 2016-08-10T14:53:43+00:00

Was doing pretty good on understanding your situation all the way up to the part that you decided to lead her into cuckolding you. My take on that whole situation is fuck whoever you want, be discrete and keep it classy. Paying for her, supporting her, and giving your commitment to a woman who is fucking other men? No. Women will share a high value man, but in no way should you share her.

redearththeory · 2016-08-10T15:18:52+00:00

There are two separate issues here. Firstly, you need to read the sidebar, lift, own your shit, improve, get your head right. And I think you should probably do that for 6-8 months before making any serious decisions. This incident here illustrates that you're a long way from really understanding this stuff

Her comments about her coworker and his life remind me of the book so I start talking about some of the points it brings up. She shuts me out mid sentence to watch Phelps win gold. Pretty ironic that I was just about to talk about how important respect is when she shuts me out like that.

You tried to talk her into giving you respect that you haven't earned with strength. She showed you how well that strategy works. This is MRP 101 stuff. Also you need to look at why you chose this damaged woman as a wife. I can tell you that she chose you because you were the only man beta enough to stay with her, and now you see why. You have some serious shit to own there and you need to fix whatever is broken in you that you thought marrying her was a good idea, before you decide that divorcing her is a good idea with the same mindset.

The second totally separate issue is that your wife may have an untreatable mental illness and you may need to divorce her. Most new guys come here with a wife that's a bitch because they're a gigantic beta pussy, and want to divorce to get out of having to do all that hard scary work to become valuable before they start getting regular sex. For them divorce is just another step on the pussy beta life trajectory and its a mistake. But that doesn't sound like your wife. Having a wife with a mental illness this severe is kind of similar to having a husband who's a raging alcoholic: its not something MRP or RPW can fix and there's a time to cut your losses and bail. Let me tell you something I wish someone had told me when I was 20: you have the right leave any relationship simply because you want to, its the right choice for you as a man and you've decided you're going to leave. But I suggest you do it once you've made the progress and you can be confident that you're making the decision on solid principles.

hambley · 2016-08-10T13:44:59+00:00

I was considering posting on the same topic, so I'll just piggyback here instead. I wish I had good answers for you re: mental illness. I am dealing with similar with my wife.

For the last year since taking the pill, I've been operating under the assumption that her lack of attraction to me was because I'm not attractive. While true before, that has changed over the last few months; my gym gains are showing and other ladies are noticing, just not my wife. I got her to go to a psychologist and get some meds for her anxiety, but they apparently aren't working.

Any attempt to game/initiate ends with her complaining about her anxiety issues. I've been giving her the benefits of the doubt, since I've been a fat beta fuck for so long, but now that my 6 pack is popping through, I can't blame it on that any more. I've been working the levels of dread, making myself busy and scarce, owning my shit around the house (getting things done, cleaning for the sake of cleanliness and not to impress her), interviewing for new jobs because I hate my current one, hanging out with guy friends multiple times a week, reading the sidebar, generally trying to make my life awesome, but still, I can't put my hand on her side without her recoiling.

Every time I get rejected, I can't help but think about the number of other chicks that would love to have my hands all over them. I am still coming to terms with the idea of "giving up", since I formed a huge fucking covert contract with the world over my marriage. If I stick it out, "do the right thing", pull his shit out of a nose dive, then all my friends will respect me and the world will love me and won't judge me. I am waking up to how fucked that thinking is. I am the only arbiter of my worth. But, having to remind myself of that means I don't fully believe it yet. Getting there.

I wish there was more guidance on running dread on a chick who has anxiety issues. Previous advice has been "you can't game crazy", so the real question for me is whether she always was crazy, or if my years beta fuck behavior made her crazy. The pussy dried up a few years into the marriage. Granted, it was never really that wet and she was never really that willing from the start. I'm realizing right as I write this that I have guilt over the idea of driving her to anxiety via my beta behavior, then righting the ship on my end, only to cut and run when she is struggling to recover from damage I caused. I will have to mull this over some more.

StillMill · 2016-08-10T15:49:53+00:00

Her response was to tell me she is feeling suicidal.

Stop right the fuck there.

So how would you tell between manipulation and true mental illness?

Call the bluff. “You’re suicidal? Then I’m taking you to the ER.” If it’s a true, genuine, serious mental problem, then it needs true, genuine, serious immediate medical help. Grab the keys and stuff her in the car, drive her to the ER. If she’s full of shit, then she’ll stop you before you can get out the door.

Buying the “I’m suicidal” line pulls you inter her frame. Take control of the situation. Be in charge. Be a man. Treat her like the child she’s behaving like. If you had a 10-year-old kid who said “I’m suicidal”, how would you respond? Have a conversation about it or get the kid to a professional?

edit: And did I read correctly? She ate out because she’s feeling suicidal? Is your cooking that bad?

Scurvemuch · 2016-08-10T12:52:18+00:00

Decent victim puke.

Was her pussy broken before you guys got married? How soon after? Is she traumatized from you being a bitch of a man or from something else?

Same for the mental illness

And does it matter to you?

All important questions you need to slowly get to answering.

cholomite · 2016-08-10T14:41:02+00:00

Threatening suicide is just a beta manipulation technique. My girl used to pull the same shit. It's all bullshit and should be treated as such.

My girl is super emotional and I used to try to mirror her emotional state to hopefully make her feel better. Now I don't care anymore and things have definitely improved. She knows that her emotions have a lot of control over her, and she hates it. The last thing she wants is for her emotions to control her man as well. Last time she hinted at being suicidal over some stupid argument she wanted to have about my behavior I just looked at her and told her I didn't give a shit. The look on her face as she realized her "power move" no longer worked on me was priceless. Like shock and happiness at the same time. She threw herself into my arms and apologized for being so crazy. Don't be afraid to be cold as ice sometimes.

Obviously don't ignore severe mental illness, but don't ever let her emotions influence you and be aware of how she is attempting to use her emotions to manipulate you.

The open marraige thing is fucking stupid as fuck. I can't say that enough. You are literally allowing her to go fuck whoever she wants while you continue paying. If you're that unhappy, sack up and drop her ass. Asking for an open marraige is basically telling her that you're too big of a pussy to leave her, and too big of a pussy to man up and properly game her and become attractive. No shit it's easier to fuck a girl you don't know than it is to fuck a woman who knows the "real" you. She knows that and sees you as the pussy you really are. Divorce her if you want to fuck other girls, anything else is weaksauce.

FistFullOfBitches · 2016-08-10T16:39:35+00:00

Suicide threats are a hard no-negotiaton line in my book. She sounds serious? Call 9-1-1, get her to to the ER, whatever. Been there, and it's a totally different game than just MRP-style improving yourself. Trust me, you need to take that option off the table either by calling her bluff, getting her into a psych ward on a 72-hour hold, getting her into proper therapy, or leaving the marriage.

You need to show HER that you won't be bullied by those threats. And you need to show YOURSELF the same thing, and start to realize that staying with a woman like that isn't a real relationship, it's a hostage situation.

You have the usual MRP problems of how to improve yourself and quit being the "Nice Guy" who fucked you into the corner you're now trying to get out of. But on top of that, you have a wife with problems you cannot begin to fix. She needs therapy, and you can't force that - it will only work for her if she wants to change and improve from her own perspective. No amount of showing her articles, giving her books to read, or arguing with her will make that happen.

dandar4600 · 2016-08-10T13:08:15+00:00

If she was planning on eating out to let me know so I don't cook dinner for no reason. Her response was to tell me she is feeling suicidal. I told her I can't maintain a relationship with someone who threatens suicide when I point out shitty behavior. By the time we were done it was too late to lift...

This tells me you got into an argument with her, stepped right into her frame and did not stick to your priorities because you wanted to "win" the argument.

What I would suggest would be:

1) When you make the dinner, THINK OF YOURSELF. Make something that YOU will love to eat. That way if she eats out, it's her loss. You didn't waste your time. You just have some leftovers for post workout nutrition. It's always better than a protein shake.

2) When we say STFU, it's for your own good. If you made great food, you wouldn't even have to say anything about calling you. It would've been her loss. If you absolutely had to say something, you should have stated that the next time it's your turn to cook and she will eat out to just let you know. Then STFU, don't get pulled into an argument then just go to the gym. Case closed, you leave her hamstering to herself and you don't miss your workout.

You've only been at this for a month, still make a lot of mistakes and seem like you're already on a verge of throwing in the towel. You have much to learn and it takes roughly a month for each year you've been together to start turning things around.

Ps. Her vagina is not broken. It's just broken for the "nice guy" she still thinks you are. If Enrique Iglesias knocked on that door she would be just fine.

bornredd · 2016-08-10T15:44:47+00:00

Do you have any kids?

If not, GTFO. Do it now before any 'accidentally' come into existence.

H_to_Tha_OV · 2016-08-10T22:35:06+00:00

Read "Walking on Egg Shells" and other books about CSA trauma.

blarggggggggggg · 2016-08-10T23:10:53+00:00

Get out, save yourself. I wasted two years once I realized the wife had mental problems and all it got me was more alimony to pay, more resources to divide. The better I got, the more outcome independent I got, the more I didn't snap back or argue against shit tests the more she escalated her insanity.

Get some counseling for codependency or some such. She is a grown adult, not your job to rescue or take care of her.

edit: see you were looking for book recommendations.
Codependent No More - Melody Beattie
Emotional Blackmail - Susan Forward
When I Say No I Feel Guilty - Manuel Smith
Men on Strike - Helen Smith
The Disease to Please - Harriet Braiker
Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving - Pete Walker
Married Man Sex Life Primer - if you're still married after you get through all these

wake up

GC0W30 · 2016-08-10T23:21:02+00:00

You don't have kids and you have a shitty, crazy wife.

Talk to a divorce lawyer tomorrow.

Reasons:

crazy usually gets crazier
you can begin your RP self-improvement journey, and within a year or two you'll be pulling women who are twice as good as your wife in all regards
this relationship probably won't last a lifetime. The alimony/lawyers/settlements get worse and worse for the man the longer he was married.

Just get the divorce.

I have done an open relationship, and even when those work pretty well, there is nothing about them that is better than having your own place to bring women over to and spinning plates. No scheduling bullshit with your wife, no fighting jealousy or inferiority for either of you, no bullshit rules she makes up on the fly 15 minutes before your date....

Lawyer up, delete Facebook, hit the gym.

onmyownpath · 2016-08-11T03:44:25+00:00

I was in the exact same situation 15 years ago.

I felt guilty and shit. Tried to honor my vows and shit.

Finally decided it was over and was waiting until we moved back closer to family so she would have a place to go and shit.

In that timeframe - she ended up pregnant and shit.

The last 15 years have been constant drama and shit. I have paid over $200,000 and shit. It's a fucking fortune.

Have you guessed what I got from trying to be a good guy and honor my vows? Shit. Nothing but shit.

Now I am forever linked to a mentally ill bitch of a woman who I cannot even stand to be in the room with. My child is growing up in a split home with parents who cannot speak to each other.

Dude - everything you described screams GTFO. Fucking walk away.

You got married for mutual happiness. You have no obligation to stick around in her unhappiness.

Walk away - this woman can and will ruin your life. She will not miraculously get better. She is permanently broken. You did not break her. You cannot fix her. You are not responsible for fixing her. You are responsible for yourself.

After I finally got out - I fucked so many women and I loved every minute of it. I'm married again now, and yeah, she is still a woman - but she is at least a normal woman. Being married to someone you can't be happy with is the most miserable thing you can do to yourself.

druganswer · 2016-08-10T15:27:28+00:00

By the time we were done it was too late to lift and I hate missing my lifting it throws me off.

you're such a bitch.

Yesterday I read "First Kill All The Marriage Counselors". I liked the message that marriage counseling is bullshit and how important respect is to a man so I sent a link to her during the day asking her to read it.

Ah, yes.... a book will convince her to respect you! lol - Why is this so funny to me? Because you act like she never understood in her whole life the core concept of respect and that she should probably give it to people she wants to be in her life. But instead of pulling yourself from her life when she disrespects you, you tell her to read a book. Because you're that much of a bitch.

once again I am happy to have a bed to myself.

Are you trying to convince us or yourself?

Although I find myself in a totally shit situation I do not want to cut and run and break the promises I made.

Translated from hamster to english: "I'm a bitch."

I really wish I had found this information at 17 instead of where I am but better late than never.

Not if you do nothing with it.

How the fuck did a woman convince you to marry her if she wasn't even putting out? Not sure what her "trauma" is but it better be pretty good for you to be believing that it is so bad that her "pussy is broken."

Also despite all of her problems I can still see a future where being married to her is a positive. She has many positive qualities.

Really? Because you listed a whole lot of shit qualities. What positive qualities does she have that make her deserving of being your wife? "Well, she can really be fun sometimes," is a quality of an acquaintance.

Not sure what I am looking for from you guys.

I think you're looking for validation that staying with her is the right move.

How important is living up to your commitments to you guys?

Listen... this is a one sided "commitment" you're talking about. You feel bad about cutting your wife loose, but does she feel bad about the disrespect, etc? No. Mentally ill or not, she isn't someone who is worth keeping your commitment to. You only have one life to live, don't be on your death bed thinking how shitty your life was because you constantly tried to make your wife's life better.

You can't fix her. Fix yourself. Maybe it will turn out she isn't really as fucked up as you assume, maybe you'll get sick of her trying to bring you down... But either way, stop working on her. It's you time now.

stonepimpletilists · 2016-08-10T15:01:26+00:00

I told her I can't maintain a relationship with someone who threatens suicide when I point out shitty behavior, yet here you are, maintaining it. They aren't boundaries, just nagging without enforcement.

I truly do not give a fuck... Do you even believe this? I sure as fuck don't.

started talking to my wife about having an open relationship. I mean, you still ask her for permission to have sex...

Dude, I don't know what you've hamstered here, but from the forest, it looks like you married a broken woman, you're fully co dependant, and no one is steering the ship.

You have a woman who will never enjoy sex, doesn't respect you, and your plan was to ask her to fuck another woman?

Look at what you want out of life, compare it with the choices you are making. You tell me if they make any sense in that context.

I did laugh when you lost your shit because you made too much food for dinner. Put in a tupperware and eat it tomorrow you stupid fuck! You think alphas complain that they burned the meatloaf?

aclarn · 2016-08-12T11:18:48+00:00

I can't sleep anyway so here is an update before I head out for those that are interested. I won't repeat verbatim but I will give the gist of it. Of all the reading material suggested I started with WISNIFG since it was in the sidebar and I had overlooked it. I crammed through a good portion of it during the day that is a damn good book. I really needed that.

I told her she doesn't get to decide who I sleep with anymore. She agreed with me and then said I can't sleep with mutual friends. I said I would consider it but I wasn't making any promises.

Then I told her that I needed a partner and I had already made the choice between life and death and chosen life. I told her that I can't revisit the question of suicide with her and that I can't save her or even help her with that question. I told her I won't hold her hand while she self destructs. I told her that the next time she brings up suicide I am taking her to the hospital and dropping her off and we are done.

At this point she suggested divorce. I did not disagree. She left for a while and came back. She suggested marriage counseling and I said no, it won't help it will just make things more painful. We are for the moment not filing for divorce but we both recognize it is most likely the best option. We have moved into separate rooms. I am planning to get some counseling to help me deal with the fallout and move forward. We started talking about how we are going to divide assets. Interestingly there is much less anger and hostility in the house now.

Thank you again for all of you guys' input, it is helping a lot. I think there has been an unnecessary amount of making fun of me but I get that this is the culture here. However for those of you who think I am SO much different than you I think you are not being honest with yourselves. Like I said that NMMNG book fit me perfectly and if you guys identify with it (or did at one time) you can't be that much different than me. If you feel the need to put down other dude's masculinity on the internet how secure and confident can you be? Fagots. :P

I do have much love for you guys though because this has helped me a ton with gaining some perspective.

hambley · 2016-08-10T14:35:24+00:00

Mobile response to wrong comment...

evilkenevil · 2016-08-11T03:27:40+00:00

Careful OP. Old guy here...In some states the longer you're married has a definite determination on your alimony.

""First Kill All The Marriage Counselors"

Marriage counseling is a bullshit term for "How break up". If you're in couples therapy you're on deck to get in front of a judge. Better seek an attorneys counsel while you're "working on your marriage".

screechhater · 2016-08-11T04:33:19+00:00

To say that she wants to commit suicide after eating out as an answer leads me to believe you need to look in the mirror and be honest.

Sometimes we parlay this far fetched reality of ours into the discombobulated blended mess of some more ink and I can hide, when in reality there is no hiding.

So what is it ? What is causing her to shut down and play fucking games ? Reading the sidebar will give some real insight. Or, not.

But, as you stated above, you don't what you can get from us, but in reality it should be what do I need to do to actually correct me to deal with this mess in a healthy, mature way, that ends the stress.

aclarn · 2016-12-07T20:55:15+00:00

Wanted to give a further update in case others are in this position. I have stayed off of this sub while going through the separation and divorce. I did not think it warranted another post and I also do not plan to continue activity here. The divorce is done now and my life is finally settling down. Once I stood up for myself there was no way to keep the marriage in tact. Despite that it was worth it and I am thankful for this conversation kicking it off. There is a light at the end of the tunnel for those of you in a comparable position with an unsalvageable relationship or marriage. Here are a few things I learned that could possibly help I feel compelled to share.

1) If your wife is going through therapy and/or significant mental health problems get involved as quickly as possible. Do not assume your wife and/or the professionals will keep you informed. In my case neither did. They have a very narrow view that does not really include you. In my case therapy surfaced a LOT of shitty stuff. Do not underestimate the impact it can have on you. You need to know what is going on because it involves you in one way or another. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Ask your wife to go to a session, ask what is happening. Best case it could save your relationship but at the very least it will help you understand and deal with what is happening. If you don't know what her diagnosis is, etc it can be a very shitty situation for you and I would put her at arms length as soon as possible to protect both of you until you can learn more about what is happening and your role in it.

2) Despite the way folks on this sub will act sometimes, divorce is damn hard. Even with a shitty marriage and no children it hit me hard. Make sure you are strong and stable enough to weather a storm. You will lose money, friends, and family. The stress will take a toll on you and just generally take a dump or two or three on your life. Don't make any decisions regarding divorce in a hurry (thank you to the person here who offered that)

3) Even with 2), divorce can be worth it. It can get terrible but it does get better. If you have been lifting and are in reasonable shape and have a job the dating scene is EASY. Seriously, I am not particularly attractive but just showing up and being direct seems to be about all it takes, it is not rocket science. I now have total freedom. With no kids I do whatever I damn well please all the time. My only constraints now with who I see and who I sleep with are self imposed. The freedom makes it easier to make new friends. It can take a little while to get used to but once you are able to rekindle some romance with someone new the awfulness and bad taste of divorce starts fading. If you are like me and have only experienced bad romantic relationships it can be shocking (in a great way) to meet new people who are open, caring, and giving towards you.

4) This may be obvious but allow yourself to talk about what is happening with people you trust who know you. This is what helped me the most with getting through the guilt that comes with a failed marriage. Having someone with an outside perspective can be very helpful.

5) Remember that the folks here, although well meaning (and right about a lot of things), can be dogmatic. It can be a bit of an echo chamber. Try to balance what people are saying here against the perspective of others you know and trust and your own instincts. I found it very helpful after gather information from multiple people/places to shut out everything and find what my own heart thought was best.

Good luck.

Title	RP and Mental Illness
Author	aclarn
Upvotes	13
Comments	135
Date	August 10, 2016 12:42 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/4x1x8k/rp_and_mental_illness/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/rp-and-mental-illness.199675 https://theredarchive.com/post/199675

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