Non-covert contracts... just contracts... how to handle?

2ndal · 2017-11-30T17:16:54+00:00

How should I handle this? STFU? Confront her about it? Rambo wants to say fuck you I’m not doing the dishes again ever

Water under the bridge. Bringing it up in any way, in your state, is going to appear butthurt in ways you do not want to appear. Yes, STFU.

Take care of your household. Do the dishes not because she asks you to in exchange for shitty sex but because they need to be done.

I sat with her and purposely didn't touch the sink full of dishes. Instead I let her talk about her day and the kids etc rather than doing anything else.

You say your contracts are not covert but you're wrong, and there it is ^ right there. You're in her frame, consciously not doing the dishes to get a reaction from her, while letting her talk about her day because you think that's going to get her to do what you want.

Yes, you did get played. But you're still way early and have a lot to learn.

justpickanyusername · 2017-11-30T17:59:43+00:00

Rambo wants to say fuck you I’m not doing the dishes again ever.

You sure you're not butthurt?

Yes, you were played. The good news is that you realize that now. You are starting to understand the game. So, you have recently read some really good books and think you know strategy better and how to read a defense properly. You walked up to the line of scrimmage last night and surveyed the field to make your move thinking touchdown. As soon as the ball was snapped everything started happening so fast that you didn't know how to react and then you got slammed to the ground before you even knew what hit you. It's okay the game starts to slow down over time, but even Tom Brady gets hit every now and again.

How should I handle this? STFU? Confront her about it?

STFU. You might not fully understand why, but trust us. Let it go.

Also, I read your OYS post. You are deep in her frame and looking for validation from mommy with your comments about working out with female coworkers. DREAD is most effective when you simply are awesome and don't have to say things to make you seem awesome.

I also have 4 kids, religious, and started deep in my wife's frame for which I am still unfucking myself. Don't go Rambo, but one of the best comments I received early on from my first post asking whether I had gone Rambo was when /r/ParadoxThatDrivesUs said "I say hit the accelerator. A deeply religious woman with four small kids isn't going to go anywhere." Now, AWALT and she could still branch swing if you become unbearable. You know how deeply committed she is religiously. I knew I had a long leash here so I kept the accelerator down.

There will be a period of time where things will probably get worse before they get better once the boat starts rocking. Embrace this as it will help you gain control back.

In case you were wondering where your balls went they are in her purse if you want them back.

SteelToeShitKicker · 2017-11-30T18:34:41+00:00

She countered with a decisively non-covert contract. “How about you hurry and do the dishes while I go slip into something more comfortable?”

LOL, you got played. She did slip into something more comfortable.

Lost 14 pounds of fat by dumping sugar since November 1

Ok, going to have to call bullshit on this. You didn't lose 14 pounds in three weeks. No. Even with water weight, no.

Red-Curious · 2017-11-30T19:28:42+00:00

Assuming by "we are both very religious" you're referring to Christianity, this would be good to post on r/RPChristians. My wife and I are also both very invested in our faith and she has serious hangups from all the anti-sex rhetoric youth and teenagers are given in the church for the first two decades of life. That said, when it comes to dirty talk, an easy way to challenge this is to pressure-flip or employ negative inquiry (I noticed WISNIFG isn't one of the books on your "read" list, yet somehow you skipped over this "prerequisite" and went straight into the 100-level stuff - go back and read it).

Specifically, just ask her, "What's so bad about pillow talk? ... What's so bad about that? ... Why do you believe that's sinful or wrong?" Finish it off with a challenge for her to find you a verse that proves it's sinful. Most people don't understand the freedom Christ is meant to bring, and a rules-oriented life is a lot easier. There's comfort that comes with clear boundaries - and girls are doubly subject to this, given that their only role in a relationship is to follow (whereas Christian men have the dual role of leader in the physical marriage, but follower as part of the bride of Christ, the church). So, even when she's free from rules and boundaries, she naturally wants to place them back on herself. It's easier to live within those confines and accept the guilt and stress that comes with following the rules rather than accepting the reality that no one is trying to control them and they're free to do what they please.

To be clear, this is a lot of what RP is all about. A side-effect of the man becoming OI and developing abundance is that the covert expectations the man once had on his wife are gone. He's setting her free, saying, "You do whatever you want. I'm just going to be awesome. If you want to be awesome with me, climb aboard ... but we're doing it my way." You're not forcing her to do anything any more than Jesus forces us to follow his rules. He simply says, "I'm Jesus. I'm awesome. If you want to follow me, great. If not, go do your own thing - no one's stopping you." Just as the consequence of rejecting Jesus to do your own thing is an eternity separated from Jesus ... so also is the consequence of your wife rejecting you to do her own thing - she can live forever separate from you, and you just go keep being awesome.

I know you're nowhere near there and probably not even moving in that direction, but if you're coming from a religious background, it's vital to realize that your job is not to control or manipulate her into doing what you want her to do; it's for you to do what you want to do and she can do whatever she wants ... and in the process, somewhere along the way, you doing you will make you more attractive so she's more likely to want to do you too. Because spiritual marriage and physical marriage are paralleled in Scripture, the best way to get her to experience the spiritual freedom (i.e. internally from feelings of guilt, shame, etc.) to open up in the bedroom is to emphasize the freedom she has in your marriage. As /u/justpickanyusername noted, I'm guessing she's not likely to leave you if you stop trying to control her and release your expectations on her. So, getting rid of your covert contracts is going to be key - because that's how she'll learn that God doesn't put any covert contracts on her either, despite the fact that many, many, many church women do assume there are implicit expectations put on them by God that aren't outlined in Scripture - things that bloops have been teaching them all their lives that simply aren't biblical, they're just things that sounded good to put in a sermon at the time.

As for your contracts: they actually are covert. Sure, you had one isolated example of her overtly telling you, "If you do this, then I'll do that." But you have the covert expectation that she will follow through on what she says. You covertly expect her not to change her mind. You covertly expect her mood to remain reasonably consistent over a span of five minutes. You covertly expect her to think and talk rationally. Now, she might follow through on those things. But she also might not. And you assume that if you act a right, certain way, then all of these expectations you have on her will be met ... and therefore her overt statement will be made into an actuality. In her mind, she's really thinking, "You had me revved up 15 minutes ago, but as I started eating I'm just not feeling it anymore ... maybe I can get something out of it so it's not all a waste ... oh, he just did the dishes, but now I'm really tired, having just laid in bed and zoned out to my phone for a while, so I'm really not feeling it at all ... maybe I can just ignore him and he'll give up."

You stopped escalating and started letting her de-escalate. Women are like gravity - their arousal always trends downward and it takes an active influence to prop it back up again.

But here's the biggest mistake you made: she said "Do the dishes and I'll do you" - but for some reason you assumed by nature that you have to be the first one to fulfill your end of the bargain. Screw that. I'm a lawyer. You know how often I advise my clients to fulfill their end of a deal first and just take the other side's word that they're good for it? Never. That's idiotic.

Now, from her perspective, if you get her to fulfill her end of the deal first, even if it is based on some overt contract that you'll do the dishes afterward (which means you're in her frame, by the way, so you're better off just abandoning deals like this in the first place unless you're the one offering them to her). If nothing else, at least you've given her something to look forward to. She realizes she's getting something out of it and is at least a little invested in that outcome. But once you actually do the dishes, she's no longer getting anything out of having sex with you (noting that women don't tend to crave orgasms until after they're already revved up, so when she's cold she doesn't care that she might get off too). This is one of the many reasons why choreplay is an awful, awful, awful sexual strategy. If she already got what she wants, why should she care about making the sex good for you - or even having sex at all in the first place? If she wants nothing from you, she'll give nothing to you to get it. She might not be stopping you from taking from her (i.e. starfish, non-responsiveness, etc.), but she's not going to make the effort herself.

screechhater · 2017-12-01T01:41:22+00:00

Ya.

Once when my wife asked me to do the dishes and I said “not tonight, I have a headache”. She started crying. I started laughing, but had to stop because my head hurt so fucking bad.

So she is crying not because I said no, but from the other comment. See, she knows not to fuck with my dishwashing shit because she hopped on a train that is fucking clean and organized. I’ve done give up on her disorganization and being able to go to bed with dishes in the sink. I just won’t leave the house with a sink full of dishes because, well, they need to be done.

So, you see, we are talking about sexual strategy and now you are going on about being butt hurt and won’t go see the lights, refusing to admit this is total retribution.

My answer as always, is it take the ego out back and run a bullet into the base of the spine. Hence, you can stop allowing your pride and feelings of getting to the real problem

I’m sure you lift and yes, if you cut sugar out like soda 7 or 8 pounds of fecal matter will come out so your weight loss numbers are probably correct.

What’s not correct is the line of shit you believe in, being ok to punish her and the kids over her not getting wet for a man that refuses to do the dishes when they just need to be done.

Men, strong men, masculine men, engage in family activities and avoid breaking a tradition of holiday lights for the sake of punishing for no pussy or little effort. But what distinguishes men from most others is the ability to just own what they say, do and live.

It’s not about who is right or wrong. It’s not about the dishes. It’s about the fact you refuse to own your life. You may have created a few kids, but you refuse to engage in your life. Hence, she isn’t excited to fuck you.

So if you want a real answer about how to avoid fucking up in the future it’s this. “Go eat, see you in the morning”. Or, sitting around like a horny teen avoiding the dishes is pretty fucking unattractive, see you just became another thing on her list. The list that she keeps going to tell her little boy, it’s time to do your part

So back to my wife crying over the headache comment, it was pretty much in a moment of absolute pushing me to the brink of frustration when she rejected me and told me she had a head ache and then laughed. See, it wasn’t really about the rejection or the dishes in the sink, it was that she actually thought she had me deep enough in her frame to reject me then laugh at me

My rebuttal was enough to have her examine whether her marriage was going to last. Not mine, but hers.

Back to you. When the ego overloads the ass, the thoughts of what is owed to you, by social construct or by covert contracts, often outweighs logical thought processes in laymen’s terms - no one owes you shit, including your wife along with a good fuck.

But hey, that’s just saying. Ya know pull your head out your ass.

crimson_chris · 2017-11-30T23:35:39+00:00

She countered with a decisively non-covert contract. “How about you hurry and do the dishes while I go slip into something more comfortable?”

You are right. It was an overt contract which is worse in my opinion. Why? She knows that she can use sex to modify your behavior. You are not the prize nor do you have a prize mindset. What you do for her, not how you make her feelz, is the prize. Beta bucks. In this round she won the value equation.

It’s simple. Your value is your commitment. Her value is her sex. You should be the prize. In this scenario her sex was the prize not you. That is where you failed in at least two ways. She should be using her sex to solidify your commitment – to get your attention and comfort (for her feelz). Instead of that, she traded her sex for clean dishes. Then you doubled down and accepted her offer. How much is that worth? Let me tell you, she valued it enough to give you starfish. Meh.

Take this with a grain of salt as I am still on my journey. But, I no longer bargain for sex or anything else with the wife. Trading favors for sex (covert or overt) does not frame you as the prize. It frames her sex as the prize. You will do <X> if she gives you <Y>. Your commitment should be the prize. She gives you sex, and then she gets to continue enjoying the feelz you give her.

The last time I remember my wife trying this my response was " I am going to have sex anyway, so why would I bargain with you." Always assume the sale. She gave me shit, but sex was had I did not bargain. I don't want to fuck someone who does not want to fuck me for me. Why would real man settle for less?

At some point you have to stop fearing your wife and be a fucking man. Another example – will keep it simple. I called my wife yesterday to check in on her (she sent me a weird text). She answered the phone in an annoyed tone. I told her that her tone was not acceptable and that I’d talk to her when I got home – and hung up mid conversation. Pre-MRP, I would have taken her shit and tried to make her feelz better – I would not have hung up on her like that because of fear of her attitude. Later that day – she sends me a text, apologizing for being bitchy on the phone. Women want men who don’t put up with their shit. They fully know when they are being bitchy. If you are willing to put up with their bratty behavior it just shows that you have a lower SMV. It shows that you don't think you can do better. Do better.

captainVSI · 2017-11-30T17:58:35+00:00

Just one day. Next day, act as though nothing happened.

markpf73 · 2017-11-30T18:41:24+00:00

Sometimes you've got a five minute window but 10 minutes of dinner remain. One day you just won't care and you'll bang her face down in the mash potatoes.

Stay the course, and do as you please. Set your sights on IDGAF. If you follow the process of lift, sidebar, and build up your hobbies/social circles you will get there.

AustralianArm · 2017-12-01T05:11:18+00:00

So last night I started my game early, had some great kino and banter. After the kids were down I specifically and directly put the moves on her and she reciprocated. We were headed to the bedroom.

Ugh. There it is.

You should never start your game early. Never. You should be always on your game. The moment you 'start' your game each afternoon/evening, you just signaled to her you want to fuck and she has ample opportunity to shut it down.

You should be laying on the kino whether you want to fuck or not. Make that your normal state.

And 3 weeks MRP? GTFO, sidebar, lift, come back in 12-18 months.

InChargeMan · 2017-11-30T17:21:32+00:00

It happens, learn from it and move on.

UEMcGill · 2017-11-30T19:40:16+00:00

Iron rule #3.

The married man equivalent is never schedule sex. As others have said you got dupped. That's ok, it happens. You're not her priority.

Attraction will get you out of this. A wife who wants to fuck will find a way to fuck. So be attractive.

....She hadn't eaten yet due to late kid activities and she mentioned she wanted to have dinner first. I was the dumbass nice guy and agreed. I sat with her and purposely didn't touch the sink full of dishes. Instead I let her talk about her day and the kids etc rather than doing anything else.

This is where you went wrong. You sat there like her girlfriend with a penis, instead of being a man of action. First step, get shit done. It's your ship, if there's dirty dishes to be done, they need to be done.

My wife and I have a traditional relationship and balance of chores. She tends to do the more domestic stuff, I tend to do the more mechanical stuff. But if I'm home working and the dishwasher needs to be unloaded I do it. The key is you don't want to engage in chore play, but you need to be leading the way. She should feel like she can't keep up.

If your wife feels overwhelmed and you come to her with another chore, of course she's going to be less than receptive. She likely feels like mommy having to tell you to clean the dishes, in her brain she's thinking "I get home late, I just want to relax and there's a fucking mess in the sink."

How should I handle this? STFU? Confront her about it? Rambo wants to say fuck you I’m not doing the dishes again ever.

Do you think a good captain would ever pick a fight with his crew about whether the dishes got cleaned? Not a fucking chance.

Become awesome again. Be fun. Continue the dread plan, you're not there yet. Because when you do get there those dishes will miraculously disappear and there will be a sex kitten waiting in your bed. If it's your wife, good for her.

Rian_Stone · 2017-11-30T19:41:20+00:00

So I tried to appear non-plussed and said okay but it better be that little white number I like.

Did you, or didn't you? Were you, or weren't you? no need to hedge here friend, say what you mean.

She went to the bedroom and I hurriedly did the few dishes in the sink.

LEL

Just rolled over and went to sleep. Half of me thinks I should have got up and left

Did half of you have something else to do? This is why you make your move before you are ready to sleep. Clearly if she lost her pussy in some train wreck, you don't have another one to replace it. The closer you get to this replacement, the less this stuff will bother you. This is preferable to trying to appear like it didn't bother you.

How should I handle this? STFU? Confront her about it? Rambo wants to say fuck you I’m not doing the dishes again ever.

Think of the guy who gets freindzoned by a girl. how should he react? Off the top of my head. I would make the covert, overt. That thing you do, where you throw out a whiff to get out of doing the dishes? Not on. Then remove some attention, affection, or comfort.

And if called out on tit-for-tat strategy (game theory) flip the script. Why in gods name would I not be affectionate towards you? You make me the happiest husband in the world!

RPWolf · 2017-11-30T20:37:30+00:00

Yeah it wasn't a covert contract, it was transactional sex and shitty sex at that.

Let it go and learn from it.

RealityTastesGreat · 2017-11-30T23:19:38+00:00

You can't negotiate desire, certainly not covertly but also not overtly either. Covert contracts are disastrous among other reasons because they try to negotiate un-negotiables but the covert nature delays the folly getting exposed. Being overt saved you a little time, and yeah it does seem like you failed a test or two as well.

Taipanshimshon · 2017-12-01T13:17:11+00:00

When she said for you to do the dishes with a twinkle in her eye that was your first clue. No words. Just wink and do the dishes. Because they need to be done.

So you come in all ready to go - and .... PJ's.

Why not tease her about her wonderful new outfit

How you've never seen that outfit.

Have fun with it.

Having had to excliicitly tell you that she is going to go get ready - that was a pussy drying experience. You should have picked up on it.

She doesn't like to have to communicate overtly about sex with you yet

What now??

Nothing. How were you acting more attractive than during the rest of your marriage ?

BluepillProfessor · 2017-12-05T17:38:28+00:00

How about you hurry and do the dishes while I go slip into something more comfortable?”

Frame grab. Do you recognize what she did- and why it would be a turnoff to any female?

How should I handle this?

Bend her over and fuck her while you shove her face in the pillow. What is this 'turning her on' shit? If she wants it fine. If not, why are you forcing her to get aroused? Just fuck her and be done with it. Jeez this is not complicated.

Also, the whole lingerie promise was a Shit Test and very disrespectful IMHO.

Title	Non-covert contracts... just contracts... how to handle?
Author	alphasixfour
Upvotes	6
Comments	99
Date	November 30, 2017 5:08 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/7gnthr/noncovert_contracts_just_contracts_how_to_handle/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/non-covert-contracts-just-contracts-how-to-handle.205114 https://theredarchive.com/post/205114

Comments